BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: Most Meritorious Player: 1918 Discussion

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Tuesday, July 02, 2019

Most Meritorious Player: 1918 Discussion

By the end of the season over 250 players were participating in military service for World War I. The exodus of players accelerated in July and MLB shut down in September to support the war effort.

The Boston Red Sox defeated the Chicago Cubs in the World Series four games to two in the only World Series to take place entirely in September. It is also one of the lowest scoring World Series ever played with the Red Sox winning despite scoring only 9 runs.

Rube Foster’s Chicago American Giants and Joe Williams’ New York Lincoln Giants were the top teams in black baseball.

Vote for 10.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Ty Cobb			31.3		6.5
Babe Ruth		38.8		7.0
George Sisler		22.9		6.6
George Burns (AL)	25.2		5.9
Tris Speaker		26.3		5.5
Rogers Hornsby		17.6		5.4
Charlie Hollocher	27.0		5.0
Harry Hooper		28.9		4.9
Frank Baker		22.1		4.9
Heinie Groh		27.7		4.7
Art Fletcher		19.8		4.6
George Burns (NL)	24.5		4.3
Max Carey		23.2		4.2
Edd Roush		22.4		4.1
Larry Gardner		17.6		4.1
Fred Merkle		20.5		3.3
Red Smith		20.0		3.7
Ray Chapman		21.1		3.2
Eddie Collins		15.8		3.1
Dode Paskert		22.6		2.7
Billy Southworth	14.4		3.6
Jake Daubert		14.8		3.1
Eddie Foster		17.4		3.0
Dave Bancroft		16.7		2.0
Ross Youngs		21.7		3.0
Lee Magee		18.2		2.9
Buck Weaver		15.1		2.5
Zack Wheat		15.5		2.7
Max Flack		18.7		1.9
Les Mann		19.8		1.8

Cristobal Torriente	13.5		5.2
Oscar Charleston	12.6		2.1
Louis Santop		4.9		1.4
John Henry Lloyd	3.6		1.0
Ben Taylor		6.6		0.7
Bill Pettus		6.3		1.7
Dick Lundy		3.1		1.1
Pelayo Chacon		4.8		0.9
George Shively		6.8		0.6
Pete Hill		5.7		1.2

Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Walter Johnson		36.1		11.6
Stan Coveleski		28.8		9.3
Hippo Vaughn		29.8		8.1
Scott Perry		27.9		7.3
Lefty Tyler		25.1		6.9
Carl Mays		25.4		4.7
Brad Hogg		17.0		4.7
Wilbur Cooper		22.0		4.5
Burleigh Grimes		25.1		4.4
Jim Bagby		18.7		4.3
Joe Bush		21.7		4.3
Bernie Boland		12.3		4.2
Art Nehf		14.9		3.6
Harry Harper		16.7		3.8
Bill Doak		11.4		2.2
Claude Hendrix		19.5		3.1

Joe Williams		16.9		4.2
John Donaldson		12.4		4.6
Dick Whitworth		11.0		1.7
String Bean Williams	10.3		2.8
Dick Redding		 2.7		1.0

DL from MN Posted: July 02, 2019 at 02:46 PM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. DL from MN Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:16 PM (#5858359)

Eric C MLEs - now out of date but the best I have

Player Name Age Lg  Pos  PA Rbat Rbaser Rdp Rfield Rpos  RAA   WAA  Rrep RAR   WAR
====================================================================================
Dobie Moore  22 NL  SS  480   21    0       9    7   37   4.4   15   52   6.3 (Wreckers)
Oscar Charleston  21 NL  CF  490   40    1     - 2   - 3   37   4.4   15   53   6.3
Cristobal Torriente  24 NL  CF  480   35    0       0   - 3    33   3.9   15   48   5.7
Bullet Rogan  24 NL  CF  460   24    1       3   - 5   23   2.7   14   37   4.5 (Wreckers)
Pop Lloyd  34 NL SS    470   13    0    0     2     7   22   2.6   15   36   4.4
Ben Taylor  29 NL  1B  510   21    0       3   - 4   20   2.4   16   36   4.4
Bill Pettus  33 NL 1B    430   21    0    0     4   - 3   23   2.7   13   36   4.4
Heavy Johnson  23 NL   C  300   19    0    0     1     4    24   2.8   10   34   4.1 (Wreckers)
Louis Santop 29 NL  C  380   15    0       0    5   20   2.3   12   32   3.8 (Military service July)
Hurley McNair  29 NL  LF  480   18    0     3     - 5   16   1.9   15   31   3.8 (drafted)
Edgar Wesley  27 NL  1B  440   18    0       2   - 3   16   1.9   14   29   3.6
Alejandro Oms  22 NL  CF  460   15    0    0    -1    -3   11   1.3   16   27   3.3
Pete Hill  35 NL CF   470   12    0    0     2    -3   12   1.4   15   26   3.2
Jimmie Lyons  28 NL  RF   450   14     1     0     1    - 5    11   1.4   14   25   3.1 (military service)
Pelayo Chacon  29 NL SS    460    3    0      2     7   11   1.4   14   26   3.1
George Carr  23 NL  1B  470   11    0     - 1   - 4    6   0.7   15   21   2.5
Charles Earle  34  NL CF   430    8    0      0     - 2     6   0.7   13   19   2.4
Blainey Hall  29  NL LF   570    9    0     -1    -6     1   0.1   18   19   2.3
Bill Pierce  28 NL  1B    400    7   -1       3   - 3    6   0.8   12   19   2.3
Doc Wiley 31  NL  C  340    1    0       0     4    5   0.6  12   17   2.1
Oliver Marcelle  23 NL  3B  570  - 8    0      2    4   - 2  -0.2   18   16   2.0
Bruce Petway 32  NL  C  410  - 6    0       1     5    0   0.0  14   14   1.8
Bernardo Baro  22  NL CF   380    2    1      0     - 2     1   0.1   12   12   1.5
Dick Wallace  35 NL  SS  540  - 18    0      6    8   - 5  -0.6   17   12   1.5
Dick Lundy 19 NL  SS    90    1    0    0      0     1    3   0.4    3    6   0.7
Spots Poles 30 (military service, no MLE)

               PITCHING          |  BATTING    |  TOTAL
PITCHER  AGE   IP  RAA   WAA   WAR  |   PA   WAR  |   WAR
==========================================================
Whitworth 22  270   40   5.3   7.8  |   90  -0.2  |   7.6
Redding   28  270   34   4.5   7.0  |   90   0.1  |   7.0 (military service)
Williams   32  270   28   3.7   6.2  |   90   0.3  |   6.5
Donaldson   27  220   26   3.4   5.4  |   73   0.2  |   5.6
Rogan   24  220   21   2.7   4.7  |   73   0.6  |   5.3 (Wreckers)
Padron   25  270   15   1.9   4.5  |   90  -0.7  |   4.1 
Pedroso   31  180  - 1  -0.1   1.7  |   60   0.3  |   2.0
Junco   28  270  - 3  -0.4   2.2  |   90  -0.7  |   1.6

2. DL from MN Posted: July 03, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5858588)

There are a few problems with the MLE this season.

One - several of those players didn't play a full season (Redding, Santop) or at all due to military commitments. The Wreckers were playing baseball in the military but I think I would say they are ineligible. There is no war credit in MMP voting but you are free to look at rate stats.

Two - I think we continue to see "smoothing" for some of the better players that is expected due to the MLE calculators but flattens peaks. Joe Williams was a stud again in 1918, one of his better seasons. Torriente actually has a higher OPS+ number than Charleston though it is close.

3. DL from MN Posted: July 03, 2019 at 11:52 AM (#5858596)

1918 Prelim

1) Walter Johnson - this isn't really questionable
2) Joe Williams
3) Babe Ruth - not sure how to calculate pitching and hitting credit in my system correctly in this two-way season
4) Heinie Groh - great defense not credited in BBREF WAR
5) Ty Cobb
6) Stan Coveleski
7) George Sisler, good glove, pitched a little
8) Hippo Vaughn
9) Scott Perry
10) Tris Speaker

11-15) Harry Hooper, Lefty Tyler, Charlie Hollocher, George Burns (AL), Cristobal Torriente
16-20) John Donaldson, Oscar Charleston, Pop Lloyd, Bill Pettus, Dick Lundy

Pitchers did well with the depleted talent.

4. DL from MN Posted: July 03, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5858597)

Why they play the national anthem at baseball games.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/baseball-in-1918-inside-the-birth-of-the-national-anthem-in-sports-womens-teams-and-negro-leagues/

5. Qufini Posted: July 10, 2019 at 08:38 PM (#5860856)

1918 Prelim

1. Walter Johnson
2. Walter Johnson
3. Walter Johnson
4. Walter Johnson
5, Walter Johnson
6, Walter Johnson
7, Walter Johnson
8. Walter Johnson
9. Walter Johnson
10. Walter Johnson

6. DL from MN Posted: July 11, 2019 at 05:02 PM (#5861102)

Best pitching seasons in the history of the MMP project by my point score

1913 W Johnson 22.6
1985 Gooden 21.5
1995 Maddux 21.4
1972 Carlton 21.2
1994 Maddux 20.6
1918 W Johnson 20.4
1997 Clemens 19.9
1968 Gibson 19.5
2000 P Martinez 19.5
2009 Greinke 19.1
1902 Waddell 19.1
1912 W Johnson 19.1
1944 Trout 19.0
1945 Newhouser 18.8
1963 Koufax 18.7
1946 Feller 18.6
1972 Seaver 18.3
2004 Santana 18.2
1971 Seaver 18.0
1999 P Martinez 18.0
1971 Wood 17.9
2015 Greinke 17.9
1901 Young 17.8
1916 Alexander 17.8
1978 Guidry 17.7
1972 Perry 17.7
1995 R Johnson 17.7
1980 Carlton 17.5
1953 Roberts 17.5

7. DL from MN Posted: July 12, 2019 at 02:42 PM (#5861436)

1918 World Series

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB E WPA
Harry Hooper 6 20 0 4 0 0 0 0 2 2 .200 .273 .200 .473 0 0 -0.10
Babe Ruth 3 5 0 1 0 1 0 2 0 2 .200 .200 .600 .800 0 0 0.20

Max Flack 6 19 2 5 0 0 0 0 4 1 .263 .417 .263 .680 1 1 -0.19
Charlie Hollocher 6 21 2 4 0 1 0 1 1 1 .190 .227 .286 .513 1 2 -0.35
Fred Merkle 6 18 1 5 0 0 0 1 4 3 .278 .409 .278 .687 0 0 0.03
Dode Paskert 6 21 0 4 1 0 0 2 2 2 .190 .261 .238 .499 0 0 -0.31

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA
Bullet Joe Bush 2 1 3.00 0 1 1 1 9.0 7 3 3 3 0 1.111 0.26
Carl Mays 2 2 1.00 2 0 0 2 18.0 10 2 2 3 5 0.722 1.15
Babe Ruth 2 2 1.06 2 0 0 1 17.0 13 2 2 7 4 1.176 0.52

Lefty Tyler 3 3 1.17 1 1 0 1 23.0 14 5 3 11 4 1.087 0.33
Hippo Vaughn 3 3 1.00 1 2 0 3 27.0 17 3 3 5 17 0.815 0.86

8. MrC. Posted: July 22, 2019 at 10:15 AM (#5863738)

1918 prelim

1. Walter Johnson 10.22 WARR
2. Hippo Vaughn 8.35 WARR
3. Tris Speaker 7.61 WARR
4. George Sisler 7.25 WARR
5. Babe Ruth 7.02 WARR
7. Ty Cobb 6.72 WARR
8. Dick Whitworth 6.60 WARR
9. George Burns (NL) 6.04 WARR
10. George Burns (AL) 5.99 WARR

Rest of top 15
Max Carey
Art Fletcher
Lefty Tyler
Oscar Charleston
Joe Williams

9. MrC. Posted: July 22, 2019 at 10:33 PM (#5864055)

1918 prelim addition

I guess 6 is a number in the top 10.

6. Stan Coveleski 6.88 WARR

10. Qufini Posted: August 06, 2019 at 06:08 PM (#5868928)

1918 Prelim Ballot- the deadest of the deadball years

1. Walter Johnson, P, Washington Senators: 214 ERA+ is 50 pts better than 2nd place
2. Babe Ruth, P/RF, Boston Red Sox: almost closes the gap on Johnson with his combined contributions
3. Stan Coveleski, Cleveland Indians: 164 ERA+ in 311 IP
4. Ty Cobb, CF, Detroit Tigers: leads AL with 194 OPS+ and 95 RC
5. Scott Perry, P, Philadelphia Athletics: 146 ERA+ in league leading 332 IP
6. Cristobal Torriente, CF, Cuban Stars West: 210 OPS+ in NgL play
7. Hippo Vaughn, P, Chicago Cubs: 159 ERA+ and 290 IP both lead NL
8. Joe Williams, P, New York Lincoln Giants 300 ERA+ in only 131 recorded innings
9. Charlie Hollocher, SS, Chicago Cubs: one of the all-time great rookie seasons with a 134 OPS+ and league leading 76 RC
10. Rogers Hornsby, SS, St. Louis Cardinals: 137 OPS+ but only 60 RC

11. Wilbur Cooper, P, Pittsburgh Pirates
12. George Burns, 1B, Philadelphia Athletics
13. Lefty Tyler, P, Chicago Cubs
14. George Sisler, 1B, St. Louis Browns
15. Burleigh Grimes, P, Brooklyn Robins

11. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: August 06, 2019 at 09:31 PM (#5868986)

Once again, I am unable to post on the ballot thread, so could someone please transfer my ballot over there.

1918 MMP Ballot

1. Walter Johnson (30.19)
2. Babe Ruth (28.58) - AL MMPosition Player
3. Hippo Vaughn (24.45) - NL MMP
4. Ty Cobb (20.64)
5. George Sisler (19.47)
6. Oscar Charleston (18.60) - NgL MMP
7. Dick Redding (18.51) - NgL MMPitcher
8. Lefty Tyler (17.64)
9. Stan Coveleski (17.11)
10. Joe Williams (16.80)

11-17. Cristobal Torriente, Tris Speaker, Scott Perry, George Burns (AL), Harry Hooper, Carl Mays, Rogers Hornsby (NL MMPosition Player).

12. Qufini Posted: August 07, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5869078)

Once again, I am unable to post on the ballot thread, so could someone please transfer my ballot over there.

I often have that problem too. I'm usually able to resolve it by posting in another thread first (like this) even if it's something inane like "test."

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Tuesday, July 02, 2019

Most Meritorious Player: 1918 Discussion

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