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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, September 23, 2019Most Meritorious Player: 1920 BallotFor 1920 each voter should rank the top 10 players from all leagues combined. |
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1. DL from MN Posted: September 23, 2019 at 04:59 PM (#5882326)1) Babe Ruth - best hitter by over 3 batting wins
2) Pete Alexander - so much more valuable than any other pitcher
3) Rogers Hornsby - best NL position player, 2nd best bat
4) Eddie Collins - Outstanding fielding season
5) George Sisler
6) Tris Speaker - small postseason bonus
7) Ross Youngs - good glove helps keep him barely above Charleston
8) Stan Coveleski - large postseason bonus for dominant performance
9) Oscar Charleston - best NGL player
10) Jim Bagby - best regular season AL pitcher. Small postseason bonus.
11-15) Cristobal Torriente, Joe Jackson, Burleigh Grimes, Jose LeBlanc, Dobie Moore
16-20) Dave Bancroft, Dick Lundy, Blainey Hall, Bob Shawkey, Bullet Rogan
1. Babe Ruth 12.77 WARR
2. Rogers Hornsby 10.87 WARR
3. George Sisler 10.78 WARR
4. Burleigh Grimes 10.18 WARR
5. Stan Coveleski 8.81 WARR
6. Pete Alexander 8.54 WARR
7. Tris Speaker 8.33 WARR
8. Eddie Collins 8.09 WARR
9. Sam Rice 7.1 WARR
10. Dave Bancroft 6.97 WARR
Rest of top 20
11. Ed Roush
12. Oscar Charleston
13. Happy Felsch
14. Dobie Moore
15. Urban Shocker
16. Joe Jackson
17. Cristobal Torriente
18. Joe Williams
19. Ross Youngs
20. Baby Doll Jacobson
1. Babe Ruth 107.78 runs (107.08 pitching + .70 hitting)
2. Rogers Hornsby 50.97 runs
3. Shoeless Joe Jackson 50.69 runs
4. Tris Speaker 49.48 runs
5. Ross Youngs 41.69 runs
6. George Sisler 40.85 runs
7. Eddie Collins 39.13 runs
8. Stan Coveleski 35.35 runs
9. Edd Roush 34.99 runs
10. Burleigh Grimes 33.19 runs
11. Urban Shocker 27.36 runs
12. Happy Felsch 26.67 runs
13. Babe Adams 26.29 runs
14. Harry Hooper 25.07 runs
Babe Ruth had his finest season in 1920.
It was, supposedly, the 'dead ball era'.
Yet, in 1919, also in the 'dead ball era', Babe Ruth had one of his very best seasons, as well.
Please explain how the nonsense about the 'lively ball', supposedly introduced in 1921, had any effect on Babe Ruth's hitting ability?
Please give credit where credit is due:
Give credit to Babe Ruth, not the ball, for the Babe's great career!
It is an insult to the greatest hitter in MLB history, to try to ascribe his accomplishments to the figment of people's imagination over a supposed 'lively ball'.
From Ruth bb-ref page:
year lg OWP=offensive winning pct (lg rank)
1918 AL .841 (2nd)
1919 AL .872 (1st)
1920 AL .921 (1st)
1921 AL .905 (1st)
1922 AL .819 (3rd)- injured, missed first 1.5 months, did very poorly first month on return
1923 AL .909 (1st)
1924 AL .885 (1st)
1926 AL .893 (1st)
1927 AL .882 (1st)
Here's Babe Ruth's RPA ratings for the core years of his hitting career, from 1919 to 1932:
1919: .274
1920: .294
1921: .270
1922: .217
1923: .271
1924: .263
1925: .175
Every single year of the lively ball nonsense, from 1921 to 1925, Babe Ruth's RPA was LOWER than either of his two dead ball era performances! So, explain to me how it helped the Babe? The evidence, to me, is conclusive. It is not just the Babe. I rated every player and pitcher, from 1900 - 2012, and saw no indication that players were affected by the 'lively ball' in their performances!
1926: .274 Finally a year that, at least, equals 1919, but nowhere close to 1920.
1927: .267
1928: .265
1929: .218
1930: .261
1931: .250
1932: .251
Where, oh where, is the 'lively ball' effect actually visible? NOWHERE!
1) Babe Ruth: Best ML player and right fielder - nobody remotely close to him.
2) Tris Speaker: Best ML center fielder.
3) Cristobal Torriente: Best NeL player and center fielder.
4) Rogers Hornsby: Best NL player and ML second baseman.
5) Pete Alexander: Best ML pitcher.
6) Eddie Collins: Best AL second baseman.
7) Shoeless Joe Jackson: Best ML left fielder.
8) John Henry Lloyd: Best ML shortstop.
9) Jim Bagby: Best AL pitcher.
10) Ross Youngs: Best NL right fielder.
Could anyone putting Burleigh Grimes ahead of Grover Alexander explain why?
1. Babe Ruth --easy number 1
2. George Sisler --sets a 80-plus year record 257 hits while batting .407
3. Pete Alexander --MMP has made me truly appreciate Alexander, far & away above other hurlers, pitching Triple Crown
4. Rogers Hornsby --best NL hitter
5. Tris Speaker
6. Shoeless Joe Jackson
7. Jim Bagby --just edges Coveleski
8. Stan Coveleski
9. Ross Youngs
10.Eddie Collins
1. Babe Ruth
2. Pete Alexander
3. Rogers Hornsby
4. Tris Speaker
5. George Sisler
6. Oscar Charleston
7. Jim Bagby
8. Eddie Collins
9. Shoeless Joe
10. Stan Covaleski
2) League home run total for the NL in 1919 was 207. In 1920, it was 261. In the AL, it was 240 in 1919, and 349, an enormous increase, in 1920. Those new balls were certainly resulting in more homers.
3) Babe Ruth went from 29 homers (which led the league), to 54 homers. 1920 is the exact year when Ruth completely breaks out as a hitter. But notice, Ruth’s homer gain was 54-29=25. The AL, in 1920, had a homer gain of 349-240=109. In other words, it wasn’t all Ruth. The clean, fresh balls, which were much more lively than the spit-soaked grey balls that were kept in play for innings at a time, gave everyone power. George Sisler, not normally thought of as a power hitter, was second to Ruth in the AL, with a total of 19. He had hit ten the year before, and would never hit more than 12 again. It didn't happen as fast in the NL as it had in the AL, because AL players got to see Ruth in action and try to copy his swing. Rogers Hornsby does not really break out as a power hitter until 1921.
As for Ruth, he would have had an excellent shot at fifty homers in 1919 had he played at the Polo Grounds instead of Fenway Park.
1. Babe Ruth, OF, New York Yankees: the highest rated season of this project to date thanks to a 255 OPS+ and 200 RC
2. George Sisler, 1B, St. Louis Browns: 182 OPS+ and 178 RC would be an MMP season more often than not
3. Oscar Charleston, CF, Indianapolis ABCs: 191 OPS+ and +18 fielding in the NNL
4. Rogers Hornsby, 2B, St. Louis Cardinals: Rogers becomes Rajah with 185 OPS+ and 136 RC
5. Pete Alexander, P, Chhicago Cubs: 166 ERA+ and 363 IP lead the majors by comfortable margins
6. Cristobal Torriente, CF, Chicago American Giants: 238 OPS+ but only 65% of the recorded playing time of Charleston
7. Tris Speaker, CF, Cleveland Indians: 172 OPS+ and 145 RC
8. Joe Jackson, RF, Chicago White Sox: slightly better offensively that Speaker but falls behind due to positional adjustment and defense
9. Eddie Collins, 2B, Chicago White Sox: 146 OPS+ and +5 fielding at the keystone
10. Stan Coveleski, P, Cleveland Indians: tops in the AL with 156 ERA+
IP:
Alexander: 363.3
Grimes: 303.7
Actual Stats :
Alexander: RA9 - 2.38
Grimes RA9 - 2.99
Opposition RA (as per baseball ref)
Alexander: 3.95
Grimes: 3.93
Defense independant RAA (as per Michael Humphreys DRA formula)
Alexander: 2.60
Grimes: 2.61
RAA:
Alexander: (3.95 - 2.60)*(363.3/9) = 54.3 runs
Grimes: (3.93 - 2.61)*(303.7/9) = 44.6 runs
Park Factor (I year park factor as per baseball ref)
Chicago: 98
Brooklyn: 110
park adjusted RAA:
Alexander: ( .98*3.95 - 2.60)*(363.3/9) = 50.5 runs
Grimes: (1.1*3.93 - 2.61)*(303.7/9) = 57.8 runs
WAA
Alexander: 6.05 wins
Grimes: 7.19 wins
60% of rep wins:
Alexander: 1.82 wins
Grimes: 1.52 wins
Batting wins
Alexander: .67 wins
Grimes: 1.37 wins
Total WARR
Alexander: 6.05 + 1.82 + .67 = 8.54 WARR
Grimes: 7.19 + 1.52 + 1.37 + .1 (post season adj) = 10.18 WARR
I realize that Alexander may have indeed been a better pitcher, but my method does not show that.
I am sorry DL for using the ballot for this explanation but I am only doing what I was asked to do.
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