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Wednesday, January 29, 2020

Most Meritorious Player: 1923 Ballot

For 1923 each voter should rank the top 10 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 5 February 2020.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If you have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 4 February 2020.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: January 29, 2020 at 11:59 AM | 10 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: January 29, 2020 at 01:06 PM (#5920199)
1923 Prelim

1) Babe Ruth - not a tough decision, this is a dominant season
2) Dolf Luque - also not tough - top 10 pitching season
3) Tris Speaker
4) Bullet Rogan - pitching more, playing less this season
5) Harry Heilmann
6) Joe Sewell
7) Dave Brown - glad the MLE pointed him out
8) Ken Williams
9) Jimmy Ring - bad hitting pulls him down ballot
10) Rogers Hornsby - Best NL hitter

11-15) Frankie Frisch, Dobie Moore, Eddie Collins, Oscar Charleston, Pie Traynor
16-21) Bubbles Hargrave, Bob O'Farrell, Biz Mackey, Bernie Friberg, Jack Fournier, George Uhle
   2. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: January 30, 2020 at 02:14 PM (#5920545)
1923 MMP ballot (mWAR salary estimation in $M in parentheses):

1. Babe Ruth (46.37)
2. Dolf Luque (34.60) - NL MMP
3. George Uhle (26.95) - AL MMPitcher - 1923 AL Pitchers have the lowest standard deviation of any single year in my system
4. Bullet Rogan (26.87) - NgL MMP
5. Harry Heilmann (21.09)
6. Urban Shocker (19.48) - see George Uhle
7. Dave Brown (19.38) - Dr. Chaleeko's most recent career lines update lowered Brown's career WAR from his writeup so I proportionally reduced it
8. Tris Speaker (18.57)
9. Rogers Hornsby (17.58) - NL MMPosition Player
10. Oscar Charleston (16.41) - NgL MMPosition Player

11-15. Frankie Frisch, Ken Williams, Joe Sewell, Dobie Moore, Eddie Collins.

1923 mWAR All-Stars:

c: Bubbles Hargrave
1b: Jack Fournier
2b: Rogers Hornsby
3b: Pie Traynor
ss: Joe Sewell
lf: Ken Williams
cf: Tris Speaker
rf: Babe Ruth

sp1: Dolf Luque
sp2: George Uhle
sp3: Bullet Rogan
sp4: Urban Shocker
   3. MrC. Posted: January 31, 2020 at 01:12 PM (#5920793)
1923 ballot

1. Babe Ruth 13.58 WARR In a word: Amazing
2. Harry Heilmann 8.74 WARR
3. Bullet Rogan 8.49 WARR
4. Tris Speaker 8.32 WARR
5. Dolf Luque 8.02 WARR
6. Dave Brown 7.69 WARR
7. Joe Sewell 7.53 WARR
8. Urban Shocker 7.50 WARR
9. Ken Williams 7.43 WARR
10. Rogers Hornsby 6.65 WARR

Rest of top 20
11. George Uhle
12. Eddie Collins
13. Oscar Charleston
14. Dobie Moore
15. Jack Fournier
16. Frankie Frisch
17. Pete Alexander
18. Charlie jamieson
19. Max Carey
20. Johnny Mostil
   4. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 31, 2020 at 03:50 PM (#5920867)
Official 1923 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses and a 2% deduction for NL players):

1) Babe Ruth: Best ML player and outfielder - seriously, the Bambino is playing a different game than everyone else.
2) Dolf Luque: Best ML pitcher and NL player - one of the greatest seasons ever from that position.
3) Tris Speaker: Best ML center fielder.
4) Harry Heilmann: Best ML full-time right fielder.
5) Oscar Charleston: Best NeL player and center fielder.
6) Cristóbal Torriente: Best ML/NeL player with an accent mark in his name.
7) Bullet Rogan: Best NeL pitcher.
8) George Uhle: Best AL pitcher.
9) Dobie Moore: Best ML/NeL shortstop.
10) Joe Sewell: Best AL shortstop

The Rajah was the best NL positional player, FWIW.
   5. kwarren Posted: February 03, 2020 at 09:54 PM (#5921430)
1) Babe Ruth - best season of his career in terms of WAR, PA, and defense - 1.309 OPS, 239 OPS+
2) Dolf Luque - 322 IP, 1.93 ERA, 201 OPS+
3) Rogers Hornsby - 1.086 OPS & 187 OPS+ at 2nd base, 47 games missed hurt his WAR
3) Harry Heilman - 1.113 OPS & 194 OPS+
4) Tris Speaker - career high OPS 1.079, 182 OPS+
5) Jimmy Ring - 304 IP @ 119 ERA +
6) Bullett Rogan
7) Ken Williams - career high OPS 1.062, & OPS+ 171
8) Joe Sewell - career high OPS 935, & OPS 146, while playing shortstop
9) Frankie Frisch - 880 OPS, 131 OPS +, along with great defense at 2B
10) Urban Schocker
   6. bjhanke Posted: February 04, 2020 at 04:17 AM (#5921447)
Huh. This one turned out to be relatively easy. I had to decide where to slot Bullet Rogan in, and whether to include any Negro League position players (the best of them was, according to the numbers, Dobie Moore; if one of the Big Names of the period – Charleston, Torriente – had dominated the Negro League numbers, I would have been a lot more comfortable than I was with Moore).

Rogers Hornsby didn’t make the cut because his Win Shares number was too low; he would have made a WAR-driven list. Actually, he would have made the list as the #10 player if I hadn’t included Bullet Rogan. But this is 1923, arguably the most disappointing year in the history of St. Louis Major League teams. George Sisler missed the entire season due to an eye injury resulting from a beaning with 7 games left in 1922. He’d stage a comeback in 1924, but the years after 1923 are just those of a solid starter, not a MVP candidate. His Win Shares by year literally drop by half. And his team collapsed with him, and was never a force again. And Hornsby was not dominant, although most of that was missing many games. And I believe that 1923 was the year when he developed the balance problem that ruined his defense, and left him unable to handle any other position than second base. At least Hornsby could still hit like Hornsby, and the team did recover very quickly.

But you guys don’t want to read an essay about the 1923 St. Louis teams. You want a list of my top ten MMPs for 1923. OK, that’s fair. Here’s the list:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Dolf Luque
3. Tris Speaker
4. Harry Heilmann
5. Joe Sewell
6. Frankie Frisch
7. Bullet Rogan
8. George Uhle
9. Ken Williams
10. Urban Shocker
   7. Qufini Posted: February 04, 2020 at 07:16 PM (#5921650)
1923 Ballot

I couldn’t post to the discussion thread so I’m posting straight here

1. Babe Ruth, RF/LF, New York Yankees: the best season to date. Will he top it in 1927?
2. Doll Luque, P, Cincinnati Reds: laps the field with a 201 ERA+ that’s 42 points better than 2nd
3. Harry Heilmann, RF, Detroit Tigers: 194 OPS+ and 156 RC
4. Tris Speaker, CF, Cleveland Indians: 182 OPS+ and 160 RC
5. Rogers Hornsby, 2B, St. Louis Cardinals: 187 OPS+ leads the NL
6. Ken Williams, LF, St. Louis Browns: 171 OPS+ and 146 RC
7. Dobie Moore, SS, Kansas City Monarchs: 145 OPS+ and +30 fielding runs from short
8. Bullet Joe Rogan, P/LF, Kansas City Monarchs: 134 ERA+ and 158 OPS+
9. Joe Sewell, SS, Cleveland Indians: 146 OPS+ and 119 RC
10. Frankie Frisch, 2B, New York Giants: 163 OPS+ but only -8 fielding

11. Eppa Rixey, P, Cincinnati Reds
12. Eddie Rommel, P, Philadelphia Athletics
13. George Unke, P, Cleveland Indians
14. Bubbles Hargrove, C, Cincinnati Reds
15. Elam Vangilder, P, St. Louis Browns
   8. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: February 04, 2020 at 11:06 PM (#5921718)
1923 Ballot-no postseason credit but some small credit for playing for a Pennant-contender

1. Babe Ruth--easy #1
2. Dolf Luque--by far the best pitcher in 1923
3. Harry Heilmann--hit .403 & had his finest year in an underrated career
4. Tris Speaker--just behind Heilmann, was a doubles and RBI machine
5. Bullet Joe Rogan--top 5 and then a gap to #6
6. Ken Williams
7. Joe Sewell
8. Frankie Frisch--top NL position player in a weak year
9. Rogers Hornsby--missed a ton of games and still nearly is top NL position player
10.Dobie Moore

Top AL pitcher was Urban Shocker

   9. DL from MN Posted: February 05, 2020 at 10:16 AM (#5921841)
kwarren - glad to have you. You have two #3 ranked players. I just made the second one #4 and slid everyone down. That means Urban Shocker is 11 and off-ballot. If that is not what you intended please let me know.
   10. DL from MN Posted: February 05, 2020 at 04:36 PM (#5922070)
Election is over

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