BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: Most Meritorious Player: 1923 Discussion

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Friday, January 10, 2020

Most Meritorious Player: 1923 Discussion

The Yankees defeated the Giants 4 games to 2 in the World Series. This is their first World Series Championship in the first season for Yankee Stadium.

The Kansas City Monarchs were the top team in the Negro National League. Hilldale led the Eastern Colored League.

Vote for 10.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Babe Ruth		54.2		14.1
Tris Speaker		35.6		9.0
Harry Heilmann		35.1		9.3
Joe Sewell		29.3		7.5
Ken Williams		27.8		7.6
Rogers Hornsby		24.5		6.7
Frankie Frisch		31.8		7.1
Eddie Collins		24.0		6.3
Pie Traynor		28.0		4.5
Bubbles Hargrave	24.7		5.1
Bob O'Farrell		24.7		4.6
Bernie Friberg		23.2		3.9
Jack Fournier		26.7		5.6
Charlie Jamieson	25.5		5.1
Willie Kamm		20.3		4.5
Max Carey		29.2		4.9
Jimmy Johnston		22.4		4.2
Ty Cobb			23.8		5.5
Jim Bottomley		22.0		4.1
Edd Roush		28.0		4.5
Ross Youngs		25.3		3.6
Dave Bancroft		20.6		3.7
Johnny Mostil		20.6		4.3
Jigger Statz		26.1		3.9
Aaron Ward		21.5		4.4
Charlie Grimm		21.9		2.9
Joe Harris		23.3		4.7
Muddy Ruel		22.6		4.6
Johnny Bassler		18.3		4.8
Sam Rice		24.6		4.6

Dobie Moore				6.7
Heavy Johnson				5.5
Cristobal Torriente			5.3
Bill Riggins				5.3
Oscar Charleston			5.3
Turkey Stearnes				4.0
Hurley McNair				4.0
Bingo DeMoss				3.9
Dave Malarcher				3.2
George Scales				2.9
Biz Mackey				2.6
Jud Wilson				2.3
Dick Lundy				1.9
Alejandro Oms				1.7
John Henry Lloyd			1.7
John Beckwith				1.6
Ben Taylor				1.5

Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Dolf Luque		38.5		10.7
Jimmy Ring		19.9		6.7
George Uhle		27.4		7.8
Eppa Rixey		27.0		5.4
Howard Ehmke		23.7		6.0
Urban Shocker		24.9		6.5
Dazzy Vance		19.3		4.1
Eddie Rommell		23.2		5.7
Hooks Dauss		23.7		5.3
Burleigh Grimes		20.7		4.0
Herb Pennock		23.6		6.0
Walter Johnson		16.8		4.4
Elam Vangilder		23.5		5.8
Pete Alexander		26.6		5.2
Joe Bush		24.1		5.6
Joe Genewich		13.8		4.0
George Mogridge		13.6		3.6
Jack Quinn		17.3		4.5
Wilbur Cooper		20.9		4.2
Jesse Haines		20.4		3.6
Sam Jones		20.2		2.8
Pete Donohue		20.0		2.6
Bob Shawkey		20.0		3.2

Bullet Rogan				7.8
Juan Padron				4.5
Ed Rile					3.7
Dicta Johnson				3.6
Nip Winters				3.3
Cool Papa Bell				3.3
Jose Mendez				2.1

DL from MN Posted: January 10, 2020 at 06:39 PM | 9 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. DL from MN Posted: January 10, 2020 at 06:44 PM (#5914703)

Wanted to get this up before the weekend

2. DL from MN Posted: January 13, 2020 at 12:34 PM (#5915105)

Eric C MLE's. He has revised since but I'm guessing that will move them all in relatively the same direction.

Player Name . Age Lg  Pos  PA Rbat Rbaser Rdp Rfield Rpos  RAA   WAA  Rrep RAR   WAR
======================================================================================
Oscar Charleston  26 NL  CF  610   56    2     - 2   - 3   53   5.0   19   72   7.0
Dobie Moore  27 NL  SS  650   30    0      12    9   50   4.9   20   71   6.9
Heavy Johnson  28 NL  RF  630   49    0    0    -2   - 6    42   4.0   22   63   6.1
Turkey Stearnes  22 NL  CF  610   38    0       2   - 3   38   3.6   19   57   5.5
Biz Mackey  25 NL  C  550   31    0       1    4   36   3.5   17   54   5.2
Alejandro Oms  27 NL  CF  570   38    0    0    -1    -3   34   3.3   19   53   5.2
Cristobal Torriente  29 NL  CF  520   32    1       0   - 3    29   2.8   16   45   4.4
Bullet Rogan  29 NL  CF  570   34    1       2   - 5   31   3.0   18   49   4.8
Jud Wilson  27  NL  3B  590   23    0       4     4   30   3.0   18   49   4.8
Ben Taylor  34 NL  1B  640   31    0       4   - 6   29   2.8   20   49   4.8
George Scales  22 NL  2B  520   23    0      2    4    27   2.7   16   44   4.3
Ollie Marcelle  28 NL  2B  620   13    0      2    4    20   1.9   19   39   3.9
John Beckwith  23 NL SS    460   19    0    0    -1     6   25   2.4   14   39   3.8
Hurley McNair  34 NL  LF  560   23    0     3     - 5   20   2.0   17   38   3.7
Dick Lundy 24 NL  SS   450   14    0    0      2     6   22   2.1   14   36   3.5
Bill Riggins  23 NL SS    650  -  4    0      7     9    12   1.1   20   32   3.2
Bernardo Baro  27  NL CF   530   15    1      0     - 3    13   0.9   17   29   2.9
Rev Cannady  21 NL  SS  460    9    1      -1     6   15   1.5   14   29   2.9
Bill Pierce  33 NL  1B    520   14   -1       3   - 5   12   1.2   16   28   2.8
Fats Jenkins  25 NL  LF  550    8    1     2    - 5     6   0.6   17   23   2.3
Jimmie Lyons  33 NL  LF   550    7     2     0     2    - 5     6   0.6   17   23   2.3
Judy Johnson  23 NL  3B  610    0    0       3    4    7   0.7   19   26   2.6
Edgar Wesley  32 NL  1B  560    9    0       2   - 5    6   0.6   17   23   2.3
Spots Poles  35 NL  LF  450    8    1    0     2   - 4     7   0.7   15   22   2.2
Irvin Brooks  32 NL  CF  220   12    0     0   - 1    11   1.0    7   17   1.7
Louis Santop  34 NL  C  240    6    0       0    2    8   0.7    7   15   1.5
Blainey Hall  34  NL LF   380    8    0     -1    -4     3   0.3   12   15   1.5
Mule Suttles  22 NL  1B  300    6    0       1   -3    5   0.4    9   14   1.4
George Carr  28 NL  1B  550    2    0     - 1   - 5  - 5  -0.5   17   12   1.2
John H Lloyd  39 NL 1B    260    5    0    0     1   - 2    3   0.3    8   11   1.1
Pelayo Chacon  34 NL SS    300  - 4    0      1     4    1   0.1    9   10   1.0
Pete Hill  40 NL RF   380    1    0    0    -1    -4  - 3  -0.3   12    9   0.9


                       PITCHING          |  BATTING    |  TOTAL
Pitcher Name  AGE   IP  RAA   WAA   WAR  |  PA    WAR  |   WAR
================================================================
Bullet Rogan   29  300   56   5.9   8.9  |  100   0.9  |   9.8
Dave Brown   28    300   59   6.3   9.3  |  100  -0.3  |   9.0
Juan Padron    30  240   38   3.9   6.3  |   80  -0.1  |   6.2 
Bill Holland   22  160   42   4.5   6.0  |   53  -0.2  |   5.8
Dick Redding   33  210   20   2.0   4.1  |   70   0.2  |   4.3
Reuben Curry   24  240   16   1.6   4.1  |   80   0.0  |   4.1
Joe Williams   37  240   10   1.0   3.5  |   80   0.4  |   3.9
Andy Cooper    27  210   14   1.4   3.5  |   70  -0.4  |   3.1
William Bell   25  150    7   0.7   2.3  |   50   0.0  |   2.3
Carl Glass     25  150    1   0.1   1.7  |   50   0.1  |   1.8 
Willie Foster  19   40    7   0.7   1.1  |   13   0.0  |   1.1

3. DL from MN Posted: January 13, 2020 at 01:23 PM (#5915127)

1923 Prelim

1) Babe Ruth - not a tough decision, this is a dominant season
2) Dolf Luque - also not tough - top 10 pitching season
3) Tris Speaker
4) Bullet Rogan - pitching more, playing less this season
5) Harry Heilmann
6) Dave Brown - glad the MLE pointed him out
7) Joe Sewell
8) Ken Williams
9) Jimmy Ring
10) Rogers Hornsby - Best NL hitter

11-15) Dobie Moore, Frankie Frisch, Eddie Collins, Oscar Charleston, Pie Traynor
16-21) Bubbles Hargrave, Bob O'Farrell, Biz Mackey, Bernie Friberg, Jack Fournier, George Uhle

4. DL from MN Posted: January 13, 2020 at 01:24 PM (#5915128)

Best pitching seasons in the history of the MMP project by my point score

1913 W Johnson 22.6
1920 Alexander 22.2
1985 Gooden 21.5
1995 Maddux 21.4
1972 Carlton 21.2
1994 Maddux 20.6
1918 W Johnson 20.4
1923 D Luque 20.2
1997 Clemens 19.9
1968 Gibson 19.5
2000 P Martinez 19.5
2009 Greinke 19.1
1902 Waddell 19.1
1912 W Johnson 19.1
1921 Faber 19.0
1944 Trout 19.0
1945 Newhouser 18.8
1963 Koufax 18.7
1946 Feller 18.6
1919 W Johnson 18.5
1972 Seaver 18.3
2004 Santana 18.2
1971 Seaver 18.0
1999 P Martinez 18.0
1971 Wood 17.9
2015 Greinke 17.9
1901 Young 17.8
1916 Alexander 17.8
1978 Guidry 17.7
1972 Perry 17.7
1995 R Johnson 17.7
1980 Carlton 17.5
1953 Roberts 17.5

5. Carl Goetz Posted: January 14, 2020 at 03:14 PM (#5915709)

Anyone have any idea why I can post comments in some threads, but not others? It says I'm logged on but locked out of posting on certain threads.

6. kwarren Posted: January 21, 2020 at 12:00 PM (#5917797)

Preliminary ballot

1) Babe Ruth - best season of his career in terms of WAR, PA, and defense - 1.309 OPS, 239 OPS+
2) Dolf Luque - 322 IP, 1.93 ERA, 201 OPS+
3) Rogers Hornsby - 1.086 OPS & 187 OPS+ at 2nd base, 47 games missed hurt his WAR
3) Harry Heilman - 1.113 OPS & 194 OPS+
4) Tris Speaker - career high OPS 1.079, 182 OPS+
5) Jimmy Ring - 304 IP @ 119 ERA +
6) Bullett Rogan
7) Ken Williams - career high OPS 1.062, & OPS+ 171
8) Joe Sewell - career high OPS 935, & OPS 146, while playing shortstop
9) Frankie Frisch - 880 OPS, 131 OPS +, along with great defense at 2B
10) Urban Schocker

7. MrC. Posted: January 21, 2020 at 04:23 PM (#5917911)

1923 Preliminary ballot

1. Babe Ruth 13.58 WARR In a word: Amazing
2. Harry Heilmann 8.74 WARR
3. Bullet Rogan 8.49 WARR
4. Tris Speaker 8.32 WARR
5. Dolf Luque 8.02 WARR
6. Dave Brown 7.69 WARR
7. Joe Sewell 7.53 WARR
8. Urban Shocker 7.50 WARR
9. Ken Williams 7.43 WARR
10. Rogers Hornsby 6.65 WARR

Rest of top 20
11. George Uhle
12. Eddie Collins
13. Oscar Charleston
14. Dobie Moore
15. Jack Fournier
16. Frankie Frisch
17. Pete Alexander
18. Charlie jamieson
19. Max Carey
20. Johnny Mostil

8. DL from MN Posted: January 29, 2020 at 01:02 PM (#5920198)

1923 World Series

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO  BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA
Joe Bush 4 7 2 3  1 0 0 1 1 1 .429 .500 .571 1.071 0 0 0 0.22
Babe Ruth 6 19 8 7 1 1 3 3 8 6 .368 .556 1.000 1.556 0 0 1 0.16
Aaron Ward 6 24 4 10 0 0 1 2 1 3 .417 .440 .542 .982 1 0 0 0.01

Dave Bancroft 6 24 1 2 0 0 0 1 1 2 .083 .120 .083 .203 1 0 0 -0.27
Frankie Frisch 6 25 2 10 0 1 0 1 0 0 .400 .400 .480 .880 0 1 1 0.03
Ross Youngs 6 23 2 8 0 0 1 3 2 0 .348 .400 .478 .878 0 0 2 -0.13

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA
Joe Bush 3 1 1.08 1 1 0 1 16.2 7 2 2 4 5 0.660 0.18
Herb Pennock 3 2 3.63 2 0 1 1 17.1 19 7 7 1 8 1.154 0.37

9. bjhanke Posted: February 01, 2020 at 03:58 PM (#5921016)

Carl - I have had the same problem as you describe, and have had it for years. Here's what I have to do to post anything in MMP. I have to log in. Then I MUST, IMMEDIATELY, click on something in the Newsstand. NOWHERE ELSE, ONLY THE NEWSTAND WILL WORK. This step, which sounds silly, is absolutely necessary to me. If I don't click on something in the Newsstand (I don't have to actually comment or anything, just click on any one of them and make sure that I could comment on its thread). When I've done that and gone back to the home page, I can click on Blogpen or anywhere, and will actually have permission to comment. As I said, this has been going on for years. If you get held up in the "can't comment" ghetto, try this method. It works for me, maybe it will work for you.

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Friday, January 10, 2020

Most Meritorious Player: 1923 Discussion

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