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Monday, February 24, 2020

Most Meritorious Player: 1924 Ballot

For 1924 each voter should rank the top 10 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 4 March 2020.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If you have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 3 March 2020.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: February 24, 2020 at 10:50 AM | 9 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: February 24, 2020 at 10:57 AM (#5926164)
1924 Ballot

1) Rogers Hornsby - .507 OBP
2) Babe Ruth - Hit about as well as Hornsby but played a less valuable position
3) Oscar Charleston - destroyed the Negro National League
4) Dazzy Vance - best pitcher
5) Dobie Moore - big bat and good glove
6) Dave Brown - best pitcher not named Dazzy
7) Frankie Frisch - gets postseason credit but it doesn't move him up the lsit
8) Herb Pennock - best AL pitcher
9) Jud Wilson - best 3B in a down year for 3B
10) Howard Ehmke

11-15) Zack Wheat, Ross Youngs, Walter Johnson, Jack Fournier, Dick Lundy
16-20) Juan Padron, Harry Heilmann, Goose Goslin, Cristobal Torriente, Eddie Collins
21-25) Turkey Stearnes, Joe Shaute, Kiki Cuyler, Joe Sewell, Bullet Rogan
   2. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 28, 2020 at 05:45 PM (#5927178)
Official 1924 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses and a 4% deduction for NL players):

1) Rogers Hornsby: Best ML player and second baseman.
2) Babe Ruth: Best AL player and ML right fielder - very close to the Rajah.
3) Oscar Charleston: Best ML/NeL center fielder.
4) Dobie Moore: Best ML/NeL shortstop.
5) Walter Johnson: Best ML pitcher.
6) Dazzy Vance: Best ML pitcher - very close to the Big Train.
7) John Beckwith
8) Frankie Frisch: Best ML second baseman.
9) Ross Youngs: Best NL right fielder.
10) Zack Wheat: Best ML left fielder.
   3. MrC. Posted: February 29, 2020 at 11:13 AM (#5927242)
1924 Ballot

1. Rogers Hornsby 12.89 WARR
2. Babe Ruth 12.04 WARR
3. Dazzy Vance 11.46 WARR
4. Oscar Charleston 11.07 WARR
5. Dobie Moore 8.27 WARR
6. Howard Ehmke 8.21 WARR
7. Walter Johnson 7.86 WARR
8. Dave Brown 7.53 WARR
9. Frankie Frisch 7.27 WARR
10. Jack Fournier 6.97 WARR

The rest of the top 20
Judd Wilson
Goose Goslin
Zack Wheat
Urban Shocker
Cristobal Torriente
Harry Heilman
Turkey Stearnes
Glenn Wright
Dick Lundy
Kiki Cuyler
   4. bjhanke Posted: March 01, 2020 at 10:54 AM (#5927358)
Huh. A very easy year, this time. The collated ordinals that I get from DL’s header were pretty clear about the top ten this time. The only real thought I had to put into it was about Dobie Moore. Who? Well, some of you may already know this, but Dobie Moore was a top-fight shortstop for seven years in the Negro Leagues. Then he got into some sort of argument and was shot by his wife. He dived out a second-story window to prevent himself being shot again, and broke his leg upon landing. This, of curse, put an absolute stop to his NgL career after only the seven years. But this year, 1924, was his career year. He was just outstanding. And he actually outranks Oscar Charleston, who I assumed was going on my ballot this time. I could certainly have added Oscar, but there is so little difference between his value and that of a few others that I couldn’t justify adding just him. Also, this is in no way a statement that Dobie Moore had a better career than Oscar. This is a one-year fluke.

So, here’s the ballot:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Rogers Hornsby
3. Dazzy Vance (a career year actually let the MVP of his time to be given to Vance, and not Hornsby)
4. Dobie Moore
5. Zach Wheat
6. Frank Frisch
7. Harry Heilmann
8. Walter Johnson
9. Jack Fournier
10. Herb Pennock
   5. Qufini Posted: March 02, 2020 at 10:34 AM (#5927479)
1924 Ballot

1. Babe Ruth, RF, New York Yankees
2. Rogers Hornsby, 2B, St. Louis Cardinals: a very tight race at the top between two offensive behemoths sees Ruth win by virtue of better defense (+9 fielding runs in RF to -13 at 2B)
3. Dazzy Vance, P, Brooklyn Dodgers: crushes the competition with 174 ERA+ in 308 IP
4. Dave Brown, P, New York Lincoln Giants: one of the great peak pitchers with a 243 ERA+ in his final full season
5. Oscar Charleston, CF, Harrisburg Giants: crushed the Negro Leagues to the tune of a 254 OPS+
6. Zack Wheat, LF, Brooklyn Dodgers: 163 OPS+ and 131 Runs Created
7. Dobie Moore, SS, Kansas City Monarchs: 165 OPS+ and +3 fielding runs at short
8. Herb Pennock, P, New York Yankees: top AL pitcher, 286 IP with 148 ERA+
9. Sherry Smith, P, Cleveland Indians: 297 IP with a 142 ERA+
10. Frank Frisch, 2B, New York Giants: I'm sensing a NY theme with four Gotham franchises; 130 OPS+ but it's the +20 fielding that really gets him on the ballot

11. Walter Johnson, P, Washington Senators: 149 ERA+ leads AL but 277 IP is behind other top pitchers
12. Nip Winters, P, Hilldale Daisies
13. Howard Ehmke, P, Boston Red Sox: huge IP (315) but only a 126 ERA+
14. Ross Youngs, RF, New York Giants
15. Harry Heilmann, RF, Detroit Tigers
16. Cristobal Torriente, LF, Chicago American Giants
17. Bullet Joe Rogan, CF/P, Kansa City Monarchs: 203 OPS+, but a down year on the mound
18. Jack Fournier, 1B, St. Louis Cardinals
19. Goose Goslin, LF, Washington Senators
20. Cy Williams, CF, Philadelphia Phillies
21-26. Gabby Hartnett, Eddie Collins, Glenn Myatt, Andy High, Ty Cobb, Eppa Rixey- a fun combination of one-year wonders and all-time greats
   6. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: March 03, 2020 at 11:13 PM (#5927885)

Final ballot-no postseason credit but some small credit for playing for Pennant-contender
1. Babe Ruth -I went with Ruth just over Hornsby, Ruth was part of a Pennant-contender and thus playing more meaningful games, Ruth had a comparable OBP to Hornsby & an advantage in power
2. Rogers Hornsby -poor guy hits .424 & is 2nd to Vance in the NL MVP & 2nd to Ruth on my MMP ballot
3. Dazzy Vance -dominant pitching year, won NL Triple Crown
4. Oscar Charleston -good size gap from #4 to #5
5. Walter Johnson -a big year, AL MVP & Triple Crown, helped Washington win AL Pennant
6. Herb Pennock -pretty close to Big Train
7. Frankie Frisch
8. Dobie Moore
9. Zack Wheat
10.Jack Fournier

Goslin & Heilman just miss
   7. DL from MN Posted: March 04, 2020 at 10:39 AM (#5927951)
No ballot yet from Michael Binkley or kwarren
   8. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: March 04, 2020 at 11:58 AM (#5927985)
1924 MMP Ballot

1. Babe Ruth (40.67) - The top 3 were all tied in base WAR before adjustments due to Kiko's numbers and standard deviation and then rate-based conversion to salary estimate.
2. Oscar Charleston (40.15) - NgL MMP
3. Rogers Hornsby (37.58) - NL MMP
4. Dazzy Vance (29.74) - MMPitcher
5. Dobie Moore (23.89)
6. Dave Brown (21.61) - NgL MMPitcher
7. Walter Johnson (21.28) - AL MMPitcher
8. Herb Pennock (17.54)
9. Howard Ehmke (17.35)
10 Frankie Frisch (16.57)

11-15. Zack Wheat, Cristobal Torriente, Turkey Stearnes, Dick Lundy, Goose Goslin

1924 mWAR All-Stars

c - Johnny Bassler
1b - Jack Fournier
2b - Rogers Hornsby
3b - Heinie Groh (Jud Wilson was better, but he played 1b in 1924)
ss - Dobie Moore
lf - Zack Wheat
cf - Oscar Charleston
rf - Babe Ruth

sp - Dazzy Vance
sp - Dave Brown
sp - Walter Johnson
sp - Herb Pennock
   9. DL from MN Posted: March 04, 2020 at 04:02 PM (#5928154)
Election is over

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