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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Thursday, March 05, 2020

Most Meritorious Player: 1925 Discussion

The Pittsburgh Pirates defeated the Washington Senators in the World Series.

Hilldale beat the Kansas City Monarchs 5 games to 1 in the Colored World Series.

Vote for 10.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Rogers Hornsby		36.6		10.2
Kiki Cuyler		33.3		6.7
Al Simmons		33.6		6.5
Joe Sewell		24.2		5.2
Goose Goslin		30.2		6.5
Dave Bancroft		22.5		5.1
Harry Heilmann		29.9		6.9
Pie Traynor		25.6		3.7
Tris Speaker		25.4		6.5
Jack Fournier		28.8		5.5
Jim Bottomley		27.3		5.5
Max Carey		26.2		4.2
Al Wingo		22.0		5.3
Ray Blades		20.7		4.5
Ty Cobb			24.9		5.7
Eddie Collins		21.7		5.1
Zack Wheat		26.7		5.0
Glenn Wright		23.5		4.2
Harry Rice		19.5		4.5
Sam Rice		23.4		4.5
Curt Walker		20.7		3.8
Willie Kamm		19.4		3.8
George Kelly		21.9		3.8
Gabby Hartnett		18.7		3.5
Johnny Mostil		23.2		4.5
Ken Williams		20.2		4.0
Frankie Frisch		20.3		4.0
Babe Ruth		13.1		3.5
Earle Combs		19.8		3.9
Edd Roush		23.1		3.2

Oscar Charleston			5.0
Turkey Stearnes				4.7
John Beckwith				3.6
Dobie Moore				3.5
Walter Cannady				3.5
Edgar Wesley				3.4
George Carr				3.3
Martin Dihigo				3.2
Biz Mackey				3.0
Cool Papa Bell				3.0
Willie Bobo				3.3

Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Dolf Luque		26.8		6.8
Pete Donohue		27.7		6.9
Eppa Rixey		26.6		6.3
Herb Pennock		23.3		6.3
Jack Scott		24.2		5.9
Dazzy Vance		20.7		5.8
Urban Shocker		18.5		6.3
Ted Blankenship		20.7		5.4
Walter Johnson		26.0		6.7
Bill Sherdel		17.9		5.7
Pete Alexander		19.3		4.6
Stan Coveleski		24.4		5.2
Howard Ehmke		15.6		4.9
Larry Benton		16.5		4.2
Waite Hoyt		16.6		5.0
Slim Harriss		20.3		5.7
Ted Wingfield		14.9		4.3
Sam Gray		18.2		5.0
Hal Carlson		16.5		4.6
Eddie Rommell		20.8		5.5
Ted Lyons		22.5		4.9
Dutch Ruether		19.8		4.1
Lee Meadows		18.8		3.6

Bullet Rogan				9.9
Nip Winters				6.0
Nelson Dean				5.0
Andy Cooper				4.6
Rats Henderson				4.4
William Bell				3.7
Squire Moore				3.5
Bill Drake				3.5
Steel Arm Tyler				3.4
DL from MN Posted: March 05, 2020 at 05:54 PM | 11 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: March 05, 2020 at 06:09 PM (#5928387)
Dr C NGL MLEs 1925
Player Name Age Lg Pos G PA Rbat Rbaser Rdp Rfield Rpos RAA WAA Rrep RAR WAR
Bullet Rogan 31 NL RF 125 540 45 1 0 1 -5 41 3.8 17 58 5.4 (as RF)
Turkey Stearnes 24 NL CF 153 660 36 0 0 2 -4 35 3.3 21 55 5.3
Dobie Moore 29 NL SS 146 630 12 0 0 11 9 32 3.0 20 51 4.9
Newt Allen 24 NL 2B 148 640 6 0 0 14 4 25 2.4 20 45 4.3
John Beckwith 25 NL SS 127 550 18 0 0 -2 8 24 2.2 17 41 3.9
Oscr Charleston 28 NL CF 146 630 19 2 0 2 -3 19 1.8 20 39 3.7
Jud Wilson 29 NL 3B 139 600 7 1 0 4 4 15 1.4 19 34 3.3
Mule Suttles 24 NL 1B 136 590 18 0 0 2 -6 15 1.4 18 33 3.2
George Scales 24 NL 2B 116 500 11 0 0 2 3 16 1.5 16 32 3.0
Cool Papa Bell 22 NL CF 153 660 11 2 0 -1 -4 8 0.8 21 29 2.7
Hurley McNair 36 NL RF 113 490 11 0 0 1 -5 7 0.7 15 23 2.2
Biz Mackey 27 NL C 130 560 -1 0 0 1 4 4 0.4 17 22 2.1
Dick Lundy 26 NL SS 139 600 -13 0 0 5 8 0 0.0 19 19 1.8
Alejandro Oms 29 NL CF 143 620 0 0 0 -1 -3 -5 -0.5 21 16 1.6
Crist Torriente 31 NL LF 148 640 4 1 0 -5 -6 -6 -0.6 20 14 1.3
Martin Dihigo 20 NL CF 42 180 5 0 0 2 -1 7 0.6 6 12 1.2
Willie Wells 19 NL SS 46 200 0 0 0 2 3 5 0.5 6 11 1.1
Heavy Johnson 30 NL RF 130 560 -1 0 0 -1 -5 -8 -0.8 19 11 1.1

Pitcher Name  Age Lg G IP R RA9 lgRA9 RAA WAA pWAR Rrep RAR PA Rbat Rpos RAA bWAR WAR 
Bullet Rogan 31 NL 40 260 107 3.71 5.06 39 3.9 6.6 27 66 87 5 9 14 0.8 7.4 
Webst McDonald 25 NL 32 210 83 3.55 5.06 35 3.6 5.7 22 57 70 -7 7 0 0.0 5.7 
Willie Foster 21 NL 30 150 48 2.86 5.06 37 3.7 5.1 16 52 50 -4 5 1 0.1 5.2 
William Bell 27 NL 34 180 74 3.71 5.06 27 2.7 4.5 19 46 60 -2 6 4 0.3 4.8 
Dick Redding 35 NL 32 210 109 4.67 5.06 9 0.9 3.1 22 31 70 -3 7 4 0.3 3.4 
Joe Williams 39 NL 27 180 93 4.63 5.06 9 0.8 2.7 19 27 60 -2 6 4 0.3 3.0 
Martin Dihigo 20 NL 12 80 37 4.20 5.06 8 0.8 1.6 8 16 27 0 3 3 0.2 1.8 
Bill Holland 24 NL 34 220 136 5.55 5.06 -12 -1.1 1.3 23 11 73 -9 8 -1 -0.1 1.1 


   2. DL from MN Posted: March 05, 2020 at 06:15 PM (#5928389)
Looks like Hornsby, then Rogan, then I have some work to do
   3. DL from MN Posted: March 06, 2020 at 10:04 AM (#5928480)
NGL hitters by OPS+

Charleston 228
Beckwith 217
Stearnes 187
Montalvo 175
Cannady 165
Bobo 165
Wilson 163
Redus 160
Carr 158
Mackey 157
Suttles 154

NGL pitchers by ERA+

Rogan 227
Cooper 180
Rector 161
Brown 159
Dean 158
Bell 156
Britt 151
Winters 150

I'm not understanding the low MLE for Charleston this season, his stats are excellent
   4. DL from MN Posted: March 06, 2020 at 11:13 AM (#5928506)
1925 Prelim

1) Oscar Charleston - I am overriding the MLEs for Beckwith and Charleston, they don't make sense given the Seamheads data
2) Rogers Hornsby
3) Bullet Rogan
4) John Beckwith
5) Kiki Cuyler
6) Dolf Luque - best MLB pitcher
7) Joe Sewell
8) Dave Bancroft
9) Pete Donohue
10) Al Simmons

11-15) Eppa Rixey, Jack Scott, Herb Pennock, Dazzy Vance, Pie Traynor
16-20) Dobie Moore, Goose Goslin, Harry Heilmann, Tris Speaker, Turkey Stearnes

Biz Mackey is the top catcher
   5. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: March 08, 2020 at 07:26 PM (#5928879)
Prelim:
1) Oscar Charleston
2) Bullet Rogan
3) Rogers Hornsby
4) John Beckwith
5) Turkey Stearnes
6) Al Simmons
7) Kiki Cuyler
8) Harry Heilmann
9) Goose Goslin
10) Walter Johnson

   6. DL from MN Posted: March 11, 2020 at 01:11 PM (#5929502)
This is the season of the "bellyache heard round the world". Babe Ruth's intestinal abscess cost him a large part of the season.
   7. DL from MN Posted: March 23, 2020 at 02:46 PM (#5932840)
1925 World Series
Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA 
Max Carey 7 24 6 11 4 0 0 2 2 3 .458 .552 .625 1.177 3 1 1 0.71  
Kiki Cuyler 7 26 3 7 3 0 1 6 1 4 .269 .321 .500 .821 0 1 1 0.44 
Pie Traynor 7 26 2 9 0 2 1 4 3 1 .346 .414 .615 1.029 1 0 0 -0.08 
Glenn Wright 7 27 3 5 1 0 1 3 1 4 .185 .214 .333 .548 0 0 2 -0.46 

Goose Goslin 7 26 6 8 1 0 3 6 3 3 .308 .379 .692 1.072 0 0 0 0.19 

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA 
Stan Coveleski 2 2 3.77 0 2 0 1 14.1 16 7 6 5 3 1.465 -0.12
Walter Johnson 3 3 2.08 2 1 0 3 26.0 26 10 6 4 15 1.154 0.11
   8. DL from MN Posted: March 31, 2020 at 11:56 AM (#5935222)
I'm locked out from posting in the ballot thread. If you are having the same issue you can post ballots here. If you need an extension I can do that too. I don't want an election with 3 ballots.
   9. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:17 PM (#5935229)
Probably a good idea to broadcast this election via Yahoo!, Dan.
   10. DL from MN Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:16 PM (#5935254)
Do Yahoo groups still exist? I thought they basically eliminated the group.
   11. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 01, 2020 at 06:29 AM (#5935421)
The groups are still around, only now you can't post any files anymore.

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