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Tuesday, May 26, 2020

Most Meritorious Player: 1927 Ballot

For 1927 each voter should rank the top 10 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 3 June 2020. Please let me know if you want your preliminary ballot counted as your final ballot.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If you have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 2 June 2020.
For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: May 26, 2020 at 11:36 AM | 7 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. bjhanke Posted: May 27, 2020 at 05:09 AM (#5953750)
Here’s Brock Hanke’s ballot for 1927. It’s an odd year, On my ordinals list, the first four players in Win Shares also happen to be the first four in WAR, and in the same order. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before. The consensus after that isn’t THAT perfect, but it’s a lot better than we usually get. The main problem was which Negro Leaguer to choose. I’ve been waiting for “years” for Oscar Charleston to just break loose in WAR, there being no ratings for Negro Leaguers in Win Shares, but there’s always been somebody, not the same body, but somebody, every year, who out-WAR’s him. Like Roy Parnell in 1927 here. But I have little faith in WAR (or Win Shares) for Negro Leaguers, because it’s basically impossible to adjust for the quality of competition, and I know that, sometime soon, Oscar will gain weight end up at first base. I want to vote for him in SOME MMP election, so I’m doing it now.

1. Babe Ruth
2. Lou Gehrig
3. Rogers Hornsby
4. Frankie Frisch
5. Oscar Charleston
6. Paul Waner
7. Ted Lyons
8. Harry Heilmann
9. Tommy Thomas
10. Earle Coombs

Oh, and for those of you who haven't looked at the Discussion thread recently - I posted up the Urban Legend that I heard about Rogers Hornsby from my dad, who was 15 in 1926, and also from sportswriter Bob Broeg, who, although even younger than my dad, really should have known better. It's just for fun, an Urban Legend.
   2. DL from MN Posted: May 27, 2020 at 01:19 PM (#5953853)
1927 Ballot

1) Babe Ruth
2) Lou Gehrig - both Gehrig and Ruth get postseason credit but it doesn't matter
3) Rogers Hornsby - these shouldn't be controversial
4) Frankie Frisch - outstanding glove
5) Paul Waner
6) Dazzy Vance - top pitcher
7) Willie Wells - positional value makes him the top NGL player
8) Tommy Thomas - top AL pitcher
9) Roy Parnell - career year
10) Jud Wilson

11-15) Harry Heilmann, Bullet Rogan, Willie Foster, Earle Combs, Charlie Smith
16-20) Ted Lyons, Dick Lundy, Pie Traynor, Pete Alexander, Biz Mackey (top catcher)
21-25) William Bell, Hack Wilson, Al Simmons, Travis Jackson, Jesse Petty
   3. Qufini Posted: June 02, 2020 at 09:59 AM (#5954892)
1927 Ballot

1. Babe Ruth, RF/LF, New York Yankees: 225 OPS+, 201 RC, +12 fielding
2. Lou Gehrig, 1B, New York Yankees: 220 OPS+, 208 RC, +5 fielding- the best second place season ever?
3. Rogers Hornsby, 2B, New York Giants: 175 OPS+, 148 RC, +12 fielding, just another ho-hum season for Hornsby
4. Willie Wells, SS, St. Louis Stars: 204 OPS+ from SS
5. Harry Heilmann, RF, Detroit Tigers: 180 OPS+ and 147 RC
6. Roy Parnell, LF, Birmingham Black Barons: career year with 240 OPS+ though below average fielding
7. Paul Waner, RF, Pittsburgh Pirates: 154 OPS+ and 149 RC with +5 fielding
8. Frankie Frisch, 2B, St. Louis Cardinals: 124 OPS+ and +37 fielding at second
9. Al Simmons, CF, Philadelphia Athletics: 172 OPS+ and 115 RC
10. Jesse Haines, P, St. Louis Cardinals: top pitcher with 148 ERA+ in 300 IP

11. Ted Lyons, P, Chicago White Sox: top pitcher in AL
12. Earle Combs, CF, New York Yankees: the Murderers' Row keeps going
13. Hack Wilson, CF, Chicago Cubs
14. Pete Alexander, P, St. Louis Cardinals
15. Ed Rile, P/1B, Detroit Stars: 153 ERA+ and 194 OPS+
16. Tommy Thomas, P, Chicago White Sox
17. Dazzy Vance, P, Brooklyn Robins
18. Oscar Charleston, CF, Harrisburg Giants
19. Ray Kremer, P, Pittsburgh Pirates
20. Willie Foster, P, Chicago American Giants
   4. DL from MN Posted: June 02, 2020 at 02:45 PM (#5954942)
the best second place season ever?


I agree that Gehrig's season is usually good enough to win an MMP. Some other candidates for "best #2 season"

1909 Eddie Collins
1910 Napoleon Lajoie
1920 Rogers Hornsby (with Pete Alexander as a best #3 season ever)
1921 Rogers Hornsby
1923 Dolf Luque
1924 Rogers Hornsby (sensing a pattern here...)
1963 Henry Aaron
1972 Johnny Bench (#3 Joe Morgan could also be a best #3 season)
1994 Jeff Bagwell
1997 Roger Clemens
2000 Alex Rodriguez

   5. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: June 02, 2020 at 11:02 PM (#5955036)
Final ballot-no postseason credit but some small credit for playing for a Pennant-contender

1. Babe Ruth
2. Lou Gehrig -top 2 were very close
3. Rogers Hornsby -a decent gap from #2 to 3 but larger gap between #3 & 4
4. Harry Heilmann
5. Frankie Frisch -I discounted the value given to his fielding but it was impressive enough, Frisch still was #5
6. Paul Waner
7. Dazzy Vance -stands out with his strikeouts
8. Willie Wells
9. Tommy Thomas
10.Ted Lyons
   6. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: June 03, 2020 at 01:05 PM (#5955124)
1927 MMP Ballot

1. Babe Ruth (36.17)
2. Lou Gehrig (33.89)
3. Rogers Hornsby (25.41) - NL MMP
4. Frankie Frisch (25.20)
5. Tommy Thomas (21.13) - MMPitcher
6. Ted Lyons (19.78)
7. Jud Wilson (19.60) - NgL MMP
8. Turkey Stearnes (18.24)
9. Paul Waner (17.07)
10. Dazzy Vance (15.79) - NL MMPitcher

11-15. Waite Hoyte, Lefty Grove, Bullet Rogan (NgL MMPitcher), Harry Heilmann, Willie Foster.
   7. MrC. Posted: June 03, 2020 at 01:38 PM (#5955133)
1927 Ballot (at last)

1. Babe Ruth 11.96 WARR
2. Frankie Frisch 11.40 WARR
3. Lou Gehrig 10.46 WARR
4. Paul Waner 9.01 WARR
5. Rogers Hornsby 8.41 WARR
6. Ed Rile 8.23 WARR
7. Dazzy Vance 8.21 WARR
8. Ted Lyons 8.02 WARR
9. Willie Wells 7.45 WARR
10. Earle Combs 7.38 WARR

Rest of the top 20
11. Jud Wilson
12. Tony Lazzeri
13. Lefty Grove
14. Red Lucas
15. Oscar Charleston
16. Pie Traynor
17. Jesse Petty
18. Darltie Cooper
19 Luther Farrell
20. Bill Terry

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