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Monday, August 31, 2020

Most Meritorious Player: 1931 Discussion

The St. Louis Cardinals defeated the Philadelphia Athletics in the World Series.

Vote for 10.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Babe Ruth		38.2		10.3
Lou Gehrig		36.3		8.8
Joe Cronin		35.1		6.8
Al Simmons		33.7		7.5
Mickey Cochrane		28.4		5.4
Wally Berger		30.8		5.7
Lyn Lary		23.8		4.9
Mel Ott			25.9		5.6
Bill Terry		28.0		6.1
Paul Waner		25.7		5.0
Max Bishop		25.0		5.9
Earl Averill		30.2		6.1
Chuck Klein		24.6		4.8
Travis Jackson		22.0		5.4
Goose Goslin		24.8		5.6
Bill Dickey		20.4		4.2
Woody English		24.4		4.9
Tony Cuccinello		22.2		5.2
Ben Chapman		22.9		6.0
Chick Hafey		24.6		4.3
Rogers Hornsby		19.6		5.2
Sam West		24.4		4.2
Kiki Cuyler		26.1		4.3
Earl Webb		25.0		5.4
Babe Herman		26.4		3.3
Jimmie Foxx		24.1		4.7
Lu Blue			25.8		4.8
Frankie Frisch		22.6		3.7
Ed Morgan		20.3		4.6
Jim Bottomley		18.8		3.1
Lloyd Waner		23.9		3.0

Jud Wilson				3.8
Martin Dihigo				3.2
Dick Lundy				3.0
Newt Allen				2.8
Oscar Charleston			2.6
George Mitchell				2.7
Willie Wells				2.3
Josh Gibson				2.3
Walter Cannady				2.4
George Scales				2.3
Rap Dixon				2.2
Judy Johnson				1.5
Biz Mackey				1.5
Mule Suttles				0.8
Turkey Stearnes				1.7

Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Lefty Grove		41.5		10.0
Wes Ferrell		27.8		8.1
Watty Clark		20.6		6.3
Ray Benge		21.2		6.0
Ed Brandt		25.2		6.2
George Uhle		17.7		6.1
Lefty Gomez		20.3		5.3
Carl Hubbell		20.0		4.9
Tom Zachary		19.8		4.6
Bill Walker		21.6		4.6
George Earnshaw		28.1		5.6
Bill Hallahan		20.5		3.5
Heinie Meine		22.1		3.8
Syl Johnson		15.6		3.4

Nelson Dean				3.4
Luther McDonald				3.4
Willie Foster				3.3
Joe Williams				2.9
Logan Hensley				2.9
Script Lee				2.8
Satchel Paige				2.6
Ray Brown				2.4
Ted Trent				1.6
DL from MN Posted: August 31, 2020 at 10:07 PM | 8 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: September 01, 2020 at 11:08 AM (#5973627)
Dr C NGL MLEs
Player Name Age Lg Pos G PA Rbat Rbaser Rdp Rfield Rpos RAA WAA Rrep RAR WAR
Willie Wells 25 NL SS 152 650 38 1 0 6 9 54 5.5 20 74 7.7
Jud Wilson 35 NL 3B 134 570 34 1 0 4 3 41 4.2 18 59 6.1
Martin Dihigo 26 NL CF 136 580 34 1 0 6 -2 39 4.0 18 57 5.9
Newt Allen 30 NL 2B 148 630 14 0 0 14 4 33 3.4 20 52 5.5
Turkey Stearnes 30 NL CF 150 640 29 0 0 2 -2 29 3.0 20 49 5.1
John Beckwith 31 NL 1B 136 580 43 0 0 -7 -6 30 3.1 18 48 5.0
George Scales 30 NL 2B 134 570 26 0 0 0 4 30 3.1 18 48 5.0
Biz Mackey 33 NL C 110 470 26 0 0 1 3 30 3.0 15 44 4.6
Cool Papa Bell 28 NL CF 148 630 21 2 0 -1 -2 20 2.1 20 40 4.1
Bullet Rogan 37 NL RF 89 380 22 0 0 -2 -4 17 1.7 12 28 3.0
Mule Suttles 30 NL 1B 138 590 12 0 0 2 -6 9 0.9 18 27 2.9
Oscr Charleston 34 NL 1B 145 620 6 2 0 1 -6 3 0.3 19 22 2.4
Alejandro Oms 35 NL CF 138 590 5 0 0 -1 -2 2 0.2 20 22 2.3
Dick Lundy 32 NL SS 136 580 -11 0 0 5 8 2 0.2 18 20 2.1
Josh Gibson 19 NL C/1B 47 200 8 0 0 2 0 10 1.0 6 16 1.6
Sam Bankhead 20 NL SS 30 130 0 1 0 1 2 3 0.4 4 7 0.8
Heavy Johnson 36 NL RF 6 25 1 0 0 0 0 1 0.1 1 2 0.2

Pitcher Name Age Lg G IP R RA9 lgRA9 RAA WAA pWAR Rrep RAR PA Rbat Rpos RAA bWAR WAR
Martin Dihigo 26 NL 36 220 73 2.97 4.48 37 4.1 6.2 20 57 73 1 7 9 0.6 6.8
Satchel Paige 24 AL 36 220 96 3.93 5.19 31 3.0 5.3 24 55 73 -6 7 1 0.1 5.4
Ramon Bragana 22 NL 23 150 46 2.77 4.48 28 3.2 4.6 14 42 50 -2 5 3 0.2 4.8
Willie Foster 27 NL 41 260 115 3.98 4.48 14 1.5 4.2 24 39 87 -7 9 2 0.1 4.3
Bullet Rogan 37 NL 35 180 79 3.96 4.48 10 1.1 2.9 17 27 60 3 6 10 0.6 3.5
William Bell 33 NL 36 220 105 4.31 4.48 4 0.4 2.7 20 25 73 -2 7 5 0.4 3.0
Web McDonald 31 NL 35 180 84 4.20 4.48 6 0.6 2.4 17 22 60 -6 6 0 0.0 2.4
Bill Holland 30 NL 34 220 115 4.69 4.48 -5 -0.5 1.8 20 15 73 -9 7 -1 -0.2 1.6

   2. DL from MN Posted: September 01, 2020 at 11:50 AM (#5973643)
The NGL WAR numbers are going to be all messed up because the league fell apart due to the Great Depression. Dihigo's pitching numbers are based on 2 starts but he was hitting a ton. Wilson was the best NGL hitter and probably the best 3B in all of baseball. Paige was lights out but only 9 games (55 IP) documented; his value will go up if you project him for more than 220 innings.
   3. DL from MN Posted: September 01, 2020 at 12:44 PM (#5973664)
1931 Prelim

1) Babe Ruth - best bat
2) Lou Gehrig
3) Lefty Grove
4) Joe Cronin - very strong fielding season
5) Al Simmons
6) Willie Wells - numbers dipped from his peak season of 1930
7) Mickey Cochrane - without framing credit
8) Martin Dihigo - hard to get a read on his combined value, this will probably change
9) Wally Berger - best NL player
10) Watty Clark - best NL pitcher

11-15) Lyn Lary, Ray Benge, Mel Ott, Bill Terry, Ed Brandt
16-20) Paul Waner, Max Bishop, Earl Averill, Chuck Klein, George Uhle
   4. Yardape Posted: September 07, 2020 at 01:24 AM (#5974855)
1. Joe Cronin: One of the things I love about this project. I would never have imagined Cronin to have had this kind of a peak. Sure, a lot of it is defense, and there's always some uncertainty around exact fielding numbers, but he's carrying a pretty strong bat at shortstop.
2. Babe Ruth: Still the best hitter, but falls behind Cronin's amazing glove.
3. Wally Berger: NL MMP, best CF.
4. Lefty Grove: Even stronger than 1930.
5. Mickey Cochrane: That's a pretty good battery
6. Earl Averill: Poor fielding keeps him from challenging Berger for best ML CF.
7. Bill Dickey: Loses out to Cochrane for best C, in part because Cochrane gets a little World Series bump.
8. Lou Gehrig
9. Al Simmons
10. Turkey Stearnes: As DL notes above, the Negro Leagues are kind of a mess this year. I don't know how much that affected performances in the games themselves, but there don't seem to be the same standout seasons I would expect. I see Stearnes as the best NgL player this year, and he just creeps on to my ballot.

Just off-ballot: Max Bishop, Travis Jackson, Bill Terry, Ben Chapman, Frankie Frisch
   5. Yardape Posted: September 07, 2020 at 01:26 AM (#5974857)
Oh, best NL pitcher was Ray Benge. Best NgL pitcher was Willie Foster.
   6. DL from MN Posted: September 14, 2020 at 12:30 PM (#5976328)
1931 World Series
Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA
Jim Bottomley 7 25 2 4 1 0 0 2 2 5 .160 .222 .200 .422 0 0 1 -0.19
Frankie Frisch 7 27 2 7 2 0 0 1 1 2 .259 .286 .333 .619 1 0 0 0.01
Chick Hafey 6 24 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 5 .167 .167 .167 .333 1 0 1 -0.23

Max Bishop 7 27 4 4 0 0 0 0 3 5 .148 .233 .148 .381 0 0 0 -0.62
Mickey Cochrane 7 25 2 4 0 0 0 1 5 2 .160 .300 .160 .460 0 0 1 -0.16
Jimmie Foxx 7 23 3 8 0 0 1 3 6 5 .348 .483 .478 .961 0 0 1 0.56
Al Simmons 7 27 4 9 2 0 2 8 3 3 .333 .400 .630 1.030 0 0 0 0.21

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA
Bill Hallahan 3 2 0.49 2 0 1 2 18.1 12 1 1 8 12 1.091 1.19 
Syl Johnson 3 1 3.00 0 1 0 0 9.0 10 3 3 1 6 1.222 0.06

George Earnshaw 3 3 1.88 1 2 0 2 24.0 12 6 5 4 20 0.667 0.51
Lefty Grove* 3 3 2.42 2 1 0 2 26.0 28 7 7 2 16 1.154 0.43
   7. bjhanke Posted: September 21, 2020 at 11:19 AM (#5977902)
Hi, guys. This is Brock Hanke’s ballot for 1931. I’ll try to post it to the Ballot thread when it comes up, but, just in case, this is my final ballot, and can be transferred from here to the Ballot thread when the time comes.

This year, for no good reason that I can think of, the problems with pitcher ranking dosconnects between Win Shares and WAR has reared its ugly head. Quite a change from 1930. Also, my method produced two ties: Ruth and Grove for the #1 slot and Simmons and Cronin for #4. I put Grove and Simmons ahead because of postseason play. I also slid Mickey Cochrane up a couple of slots to get him on the ballot at #10. I wouldn’t have done that on just catcher bonus or just on postseason bonus, but Mickey has both. As for the Negro League, it’s in a state of collapse in 1931, IIRC, and there are a lot of very close WAR rankings. I chose Martin Dihigo, but not for any real good reason. I just trust Dihigo more than the other candidates with very similar rankings.

A fun note: The As have two Top Ten guys (three with Cochrane), and George Earnshaw and Max Bishop also made DL’s header. The Cards have no one in the Top Ten, and only Hafey, Frisch and Bottomly on the ballot at all. The Cards beat the As in the World Series. Pepper Martin, the star of the series, didn’t do enough in the regular season to make the header. I call this the Branch Rickey Syndrome. The As had bigger stars, but the Cards had more depth. The farm system is equal to Connie Mack’s starfinding power.

Anyway, here’s the Ballot:

1. Lefty Grove
2. Babe Ruth
3. Lou Gehrig
4. Al Simmons
5. Joe Cronin
6. Wes Ferrell
7. Earl Averill
8. Martin Dihigo
9. Bill Terry
10. Mickey Cochrane
   8. DL from MN Posted: September 28, 2020 at 09:43 AM (#5979333)
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