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Friday, December 18, 2020

Most Meritorious Player: 1933 Ballot

For 1933 each voter should rank the top 10 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 6 January 2021. Please let me know if you want your preliminary ballot counted as your final ballot.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If you have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 5 January 2021.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: December 18, 2020 at 12:28 PM | 13 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: December 18, 2020 at 12:32 PM (#5994879)
bjhanke Posted: November 16, 2020 at 07:37 PM (#5989112)
Hi. This is Brock Hanke’s MMP ballot for 1933. Again, I have no plans to change this, so you can just shunt it over to the Ballot Thread when that happens.

A short essay about Chuck Klein: Most of you know that I have little respect for Gavy Cravath’s homer numbers in the Baker Bowl, because he has a home/road homer split, for his career, of 3.85 to 1. The NEXT-highest such ratio I have found is the 1B on Cravath’s teams, Fred Luderus, who is an almost-exact contemporary of Cravath’s. His is 3-1 exactly. Well, Chuck Klein was very famous for hitting all his homers in the Baker Bowl. He was so famous for this that my dad, who was a Browns (AL) fan, told me about it when I was a kid just learning about baseball. Dad said that the Phillies traded Klein to the Cubs, but the Cubs traded him right back after the season, because even Wrigley wasn’t the Baker Bowl. This is true. It is also true that Chuck Klein’s career home/road homer splits are 1.7-1, which is less than half of Cravath’s. So, what happened?

What happened is Babe Ruth and the Clean Ball (not made any easier to hit, but just kept clean, which has the same effect). In this new environment, a good power hitter could hit homers in almost every park (except Griffith, which is in the AL). So, the Baker Bowl didn’t become any harder to hit homers in, but the rest of the parks became possible to hit homers in. Klein’s splits are extreme for his era, but not impossible. What was impossible was for anyone to duplicate Cravath and Luderus’ experience. So, I slipped Klein behind Wally Berger because of the ballpark, but didn’t push him any further down.

Jimmie Foxx is ranked first by both Win Shares and WAR, or I might have put Carl Hubbell above him, based on the postseason. Carl’s dead now; he won’t mind finishing second. This year, the WAR/Win Shares disconnect regarding pitchers shows up strongly. Lefty Grove ranks 5th in WAR, but 22nd in Win Shares, and Win Shares loves Lefty Grove. Bump Hadley is 9th and 30th. Meanwhile, Wally Berger is 2nd in Win Shares, but 10th in WAR, Lou Gehrig is 3rd and 11th, and Mel Ott is 8th and 16th. This sort of thing is why I use BOTH Win Shares and WAR when figuring these rankings.

For the 21-year-old Josh Gibson to be the best player in the Negro Leagues may be hard to imagine, but Gibson is in a class with Ted Williams and Stan Musial, who were top-end superstars by the time they were 21, too. My placement of Gibson at #8 is, really, just a guess.

So, enough of this; here are the rankings:

1. Jimmie Foxx
2. Carl Hubbell
3. Joe Cronin
4. Wally Berger
5. Chuck Klein
6. Arky Vaughn
7. Lou Gehrig
8. Josh Gibson
9. Lon Warneke
10. Charlie Gehringer
   2. DL from MN Posted: December 18, 2020 at 12:47 PM (#5994887)
1933 Ballot

1) Carl Hubbell - Top NL pitcher was very close top the top NL position player until I figured in 20 postseason innings without an earned run.
1) Chuck Klein - NL Triple Crown winner gets the edge over his AL counterparts due to the league run scoring standard deviations
3) Jimmie Foxx - best bat, less glove than Klein
4) Arky Vaughan
5) Joe Cronin - his superior fielding doesn't top Vaughan's better bat
6) Lon Warneke
7) Ed Brandt
8) Wally Berger
9) Mickey Cochrane - still the top C in baseball but competition is improving
10) Charlie Gehringer

11-15) Lou Gehrig, Josh Gibson, Turkey Stearnes, Hal Schumacher, Bump Hadley
16-20) Bill Rogell, Mel Ott, Martin Dihigo, Lefty Grove, Pepper Martin
   3. kcgard2 Posted: December 20, 2020 at 09:11 AM (#5995198)
I thought 1933 was going to be my first ballot, but 2020 was actually posted first. No changes from prelim ballot.

1) Jimmie Foxx - best overall bat in MLB
2) Carl Hubbell - best pitcher in MLB
3) Martín Dihigo - strong performance as two-way player is too impressive
4) Chuck Klein - second best bat, NL bump
5) Joe Cronin - slightest edge over Vaughan
6) Arky Vaughan - just behind Cronin
7) Lon Warneke - great run prevention and lots of innings, just behind Hubbell all around
8) Lou Gehrig - fantastic season, 2nd best bat in AL
9) Charlie Gehringer - fantastic defensive season just behind the offensive power of Gehrig
10) Mickey Cochrane - 150 wRC+ from your catcher in 130 games

11-20) Wally Berger, Babe Ruth, Turkey Stearnes, Dizzy Dean, Lefty Grove, Ed Brandt, Mel Harder, Josh Gibson, Mel Ott, Larry French
   4. Qufini Posted: December 30, 2020 at 09:14 AM (#5996568)
1933 Ballot

1. Jimmie Foxx, 1B, Philadelphia Athletics: leads MLB in OPS+ and RC with 201 and 180 respectively
2. Carl Hubbell, P, New York Giants: leads MLB with 193 ERA+; 308 IP is tops in NL
3. Chuck Klein, RF, Philadelphia Phillies: leads NL with 176 OPS+ and 154 RC
4. Lou Gehrig, 1B, New York Yankees: 177 OPS+ and 147 RC
5. Mickey Cochrane, C, Philadelphia Athletics: 158 OPS+ and 100 RC as a catcher
6. Josh Gibson, C, Pittsburgh Crawfords: not even the best catcher in Pennsylvania! 217 OPS+ though only -2 fielding
7. Lon Warneke, P, Chicago Cubs: 165 ERA+ in 287 IP
8. Charlie Gehringer, 2B, Detroit Tigers: 126 OPS+ and +18 fielding
9. Wally Berger, CF, Boston Braves: 172 OPS+ is 2nd in NL, +3 fielding
10. Babe Ruth, RF, New York Yankees: sneaks onto ballot with 176 OPS+ that's third best in AL and MLB

11. Sam Streeter, P, Pittsburgh Crawfords
12. Arky Vaughan, SS, Pittsburgh Pirates
13. Satchel Paige, P, Pittsburgh Crawfords
14. Joe Cronin, SS, Washington Senators
15. Leroy Matlock, P, Pittsburgh Crawfords- what a rotation! though it helps that they didn't have to face Gibson
16. Bill Dickey, C, New York Yankees
17. Spud Davis, C, Philadelphia Phillies
18. Mel Harder, P, Cleveland Indians- top pitcher in the AL
19. Hal Schumacher, P, New York Giants
20. Bump Hadley, P, St. Louis Browns
   5. MrC. Posted: December 30, 2020 at 11:01 AM (#5996593)
1933 Ballot

1. Jimmy Foxx 10.68 WARR
2. Carl Hubbell 8.69 WARR
3. Chuck Klein 7.57 WARR
4. Dizzy Dean 7.54 WARR
5. Joe Cronin 7.47 WARR
6. Arky Vaughn 6.77 WARR
7. Wally Berger 6.48 WARR
8. Bump Hadley 6.46 WARR
9. Lou Gehrig 6.43 WARR
10. Al Simmons 6.41 WARR

Rest of top 20
11. Charlie Gehringer
12. Mickey Cochrane
13. Pepper Martin
14. Willie Foster
15. Billy Rogell
16. Van Mungo
17. Mel Harder
18. Fred Schulte
19. Ed wells
20. Josh Gibson

   6. Yardape Posted: December 30, 2020 at 04:58 PM (#5996695)
1933 ballot:

1. Josh Gibson
2. Jimmie Foxx
3. Carl Hubbell
4. Chuck Klein
5. Mickey Cochrane
6. Lon Warneke
7. Lou Gehrig
8. Sam Streeter
9. Turkey Stearnes
10. Arky Vaughan

Mel Harder is my AL MMPitcher.
   7. MrC. Posted: January 01, 2021 at 11:16 AM (#5996978)
1933 ballot corrected version

I apologize, but in going over my calculations more carefully, I realize there were mistakes made in the pitcher calculations. As a result, there we're a few changes in my ballot.

The corrected ballot is as follows:

1. Jimmy Foxx 10.68 WARR
2. Carl Hubbell 8.18 WARR
3. Chuck Klein 7.57 WARR
4. Joe Cronin 7.47 WARR
5. Dizzy Dean 6.89 WARR
6. Arky Vaughn 6.77 WARR
7. Wally Berger 6.48 WARR
8. Lou Gehrig 6.43 WARR
9. Al Simmons 6.41 WARR
10. Charlie Gehringer 6.33 WARR

Rest of top 20
11. Bump Hadley
12. Mickey Cochrane
13. Pepper Martin
14. Willie Foster
15. Billy Rogell
16. Van Mungo
17. Mel Harder
18. Fred Schulte
19. Ed wells
20. Josh Gibson
   8. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: January 03, 2021 at 07:52 PM (#5997275)
Final ballot-no postseason credit but some small credit for playing for a Pennant-contender

1. Jimmie Foxx --barely edges Hubbell for #1. Probably a slight position player bias
2. Carl Hubbell
3. Chuck Klein
4. Joe Cronin
5. Lou Gehrig
6. Wally Berger
7. Arky Vaughn
8. Josh Gibson
9. Mickey Cochrane
10.Lefty Grove
   9. DL from MN Posted: January 05, 2021 at 12:01 PM (#5997532)
Last day to get in a prelim ballot.
   10. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 05, 2021 at 06:29 PM (#5997609)
Official 1933 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses):

1) Jimmie Foxx: Best ML player and first baseman by a decent amount.
2) Wally Berger: Best NL player and center fielder.
3) Lou Gehrig: Best player who also happens to be my all-time favorite great.
4) Carl Hubbell: Best ML pitcher.
5) Josh Gibson: Best NeL player and ML catcher.
6) Turkey Stearnes: Best NeL center fielder.
7) Arky Vaughan: Best ML shortstop.
8) Joe Cronin: Best AL shortstop.
9) Lon Warneke" Best pitcher named The Arkansas Hummingbird.
10) Pepper Martin: Best ML third baseman.

Best AL pitcher: Bump Hadley
   11. DL from MN Posted: January 06, 2021 at 01:18 PM (#5997698)
Voting ends today!
   12. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: January 06, 2021 at 03:28 PM (#5997737)
1933 MMP Ballot:

1. Carl Hubbell (29.67)
2. Jimmie Foxx (24.04) - AL MMP
3. Arky Vaughan (18.83) - NL MMPosition Player
4. Joe Cronin (18.77)
5. Lefty Grove (16.44) - AL MMPitcher
6. Lon Warneke (16.23)
7. Charlie Gehringer (16.23)
8. Chuck Klein (15.77)
9. Wally Berger (14.45)
10. Lou Gehrig (13.95

11-15. Mickey Cochrane, Bump Hadley, Ed Brandt, Turkey Stearnes (NgL MMP), Satchel Paige (NgL MMPitcher).
   13. DL from MN Posted: January 06, 2021 at 06:15 PM (#5997790)
Election is over.

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