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Wednesday, April 21, 2021

Most Meritorious Player: 1937 Ballot

For 1937 each voter should rank the top 10 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 5 May 2021. Please let me know if you want your preliminary ballot counted as your final ballot.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If you have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 4 May 2021.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: April 21, 2021 at 04:07 PM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: April 22, 2021 at 08:55 AM (#6014896)
1937 Ballot

1) Josh Gibson - this is one of his best seasons as a hitter
2) Lefty Gomez - best pitcher, strong postseason separates him from Grove
3) Joe Medwick - career year, only NL player on the ballot
4) Bill Dickey - postseason bump, responsible for more of the Yankee run prevention than he gets credit for
5) Lefty Grove - big dropoff to the next MLB pitcher
6) Joe DiMaggio
7) Hank Greenberg
8) Charlie Gehringer
9) Harlond Clift
10) Hilton Smith - best NGL pitcher this season

11-15) Lou Gehrig, Willard Brown, Dolph Camilli, Billy Herman, Johnny Mize
16-22) Buck Leonard, Dick Bartell, Mel Ott, Gabby Hartnett, Martin Dihigo, Arky Vaughan, Jim Turner (best NL pitcher)
   2. kcgard2 Posted: April 23, 2021 at 07:14 PM (#6015107)
1937 ballot

1) Josh Gibson - Brent's comments convinced me to tamper my skepticism from only 40 recorded games and so I put him in the top spot.
2) Joe DiMaggio - I think DiMaggio (barely) stands atop the #2-4 players
3) Lou Gehrig
4) Joe Medwick
5) Lefty Grove
6) Lefty Gomez - no other MLB pitchers are challenging for a ballot spot (Hilton Smith is close to making the ballot)
7) Hank Greenberg
8) Charlie Gehringer
9) Mel Ott
10) Harlond Clift

11-20) Bill Dickey, Dick Bartell, Hilton Smith, Willard Brown, Johnny Mize, Billy Herman, Luke Appling, Dolph Camilli, Gabby Hartnett, Arky Vaughan
   3. MrC. Posted: April 25, 2021 at 11:26 AM (#6015249)
1937 Ballot

1. Josh Gibson 9.15 WARR
2. Lefty Gomez 8.47 WARR
3. Joe DiMaggio 8.11 WARR
4. Willard Brown 7.89 WARR
5. Billy Herman 7.86 WARR
6. Lefty Grove 7.72 WARR
7. Harland Clift 7.84 WARR
8. Hank Greenberg 7.37 WARR
9. Hilton Smith 7.01 WARR
10 Lou Gehrig 6.92 WARR

Rest of top 20
11. Gene Moore
12. Ray Brown
13. Charlie Gehringer
14 Dick Bartell
15. Luke Appling
16 Joe Medwick
17 Van Mungo
18. Luke Hamlin
19. Arky Vaughn
20. Newt Allen
   4. bjhanke Posted: April 26, 2021 at 01:03 AM (#6015421)
Hi. This is Brock Hanke's 1937 MMP Ballot. I want to confess, right now: Except for Gibson, this is a list of who had the most Win Shares. I'm terribly late with my series of comments on WAR's Positional Adjustments, and that's because I've spent the last few weeks of my baseball time chasing rabbits down holes, trying to find some justification, ANY justification for the process WAR uses to generate its Positional Adjustments. I have found nothing. I have lost all faith in WAR's Positional Adjustments, and, therefore, lost faith in the fielding numbers overall. And, if you don't trust the fielding numbers, well, they're interrelated with the pitching and offense numbers, so I don't have any real faith in WAR at all, right now. I am quite sure that several of you will jump all over me when I do get the comments posted up, but that's OK. I'm going to jump all over WAR's idea of Positional Adjustments. I can't blame those of you who believe in them and use them to be happy about that. So, here's the list of Win Shares leaders for 1937, with Josh Gibson slotted in more or less subjectively. There was a tie for the tenth spot, between Lefty Gomez and Billy Herman, at 29 WS. I put Gomez on the ballot as a sop to WAR, which rates pitchers much higher than WS does. Best I am willing to do.

1. Joe Medwick (40)
2. Joe DiMaggio (39)
3. Josh Gibson
4. Lou Gehrig (36)
5. Johnny Mize (34)
6. Hank Greenberg (33)
7. Bill Dickey (33)
8. Mel Ott (32)
9. Charlie Gehringer (30)
10. Lefty Gomez (29)
   5. kcgard2 Posted: April 27, 2021 at 06:05 PM (#6015737)
bj, you could just take oWAR from WAR, instead. Then combine with Win Shares like you were doing before (if you are interested in using more than WS). Or just use WS. Either way, we can just safely ignore defense altogether.

I'm confused. You have a problem with the positional adjustments? I thought your issue was with defensive replacement level? Losing faith in the position adjustment shouldn't really have anything to do with your faith in fielding runs. Do the position adjustments not jive with your intuition? Like, a LF and a SS should be equal value if they have equal runs saved compared to positional average?

Not to open a can of worms. I don't think anyone is going to be bent out of shape if you want to just use WS.
   6. Qufini Posted: May 04, 2021 at 03:35 PM (#6016906)
1937 Ballot

A strong year for the American League

1. Joe DiMaggio, CF, New York Yankees: 166 OPS+ is only 3rd in AL but defense (+6) and positional adjustment for playing CF push him over the top
2. Joe Medwick, LF, St. Louis Cardinals: 183 OPS+ and 165 RC both lead the NL
3. Josh Gibson, C, Homestead Grays: monster season with the bat (271 OPS+) but negligible defense (-1 fielding)
4. Hank Greenberg, 1B, Detroit Tigers: 172 OPS+ and RC to go with +2 fielding
5. Lou Gehrig, 1B, New York Yankees: slightly better than Hank with the bat (176 OPS+) but slightly worse with the glove (-6 fielding)
6. Bill Dickey, C, New York Yankees: 144 OPS+ and 124 RC both crack the top ten, +9 fielding behind the plate
7. Lefty Gomez, P, New York Yankees: leads the AL with 193 ERA+ and 278 IP
8. Charlie Gehringer, 2B, Detroit Tigers: 144 OPS+ and 135 RC crack the top ten, +6 fielding at the keystone
9. Johnny Mize, 1B, St. Louis CardinalsL 174 OPS+ and 140 RC are second in the NL
10. Willard Brown, SS/LF, Kansas City Monarchs: 191 OPS+ and +3 fielding while playing mostly shortstop

11. Gabby Hartnett, C, Chicago Cubs: 158 OPS+ in only 110 games
12. Hilton Smith, P, Kansas City Monarchs: 218 ERA+ in a swing role
13. Harlond Clift, 3B, St. Louis Browns: 140 OPS+ and +10 fielding at the hot corner
14. Dolph Camilli, 1B, Brooklyn Dodgers
15. Lefty Grove, P, Boston Red Sox
16. Red Ruffing, P, New York Yankees
17. Jim Turner, P, Boston Braves: the 33 year old rookie is the best pitcher in the National League
18. Billy Herman, 2B, Chicago Cubs
19. Cliff Melton, P, New York Giants: another outstanding debut year
20. Mel Ott, RF, New York Giants
   7. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: May 04, 2021 at 04:05 PM (#6016917)
Final ballot-no postseason credit but some small credit for playing for a Pennant contender

1. Josh Gibson—one Triple Crown winner just edges out another Triple Crown winner
2. Joe Medwick
3. Lou Gehrig—just beats his teammate for AL MMP
4. Joe DiMaggio
5. Bill Dickey
6. Hank Greenberg
7. Charlie Gehringer
8. Lefty Gomez—weak year for pitchers
9. Hilton Smith
10.Johnny Mize

Top NL pitcher Jim Turner
   8. DL from MN Posted: May 05, 2021 at 12:57 PM (#6017068)
Missing ballots from Binkley, Murphy. Will copy over Yardape prelim if no final is posted.
   9. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 05, 2021 at 03:22 PM (#6017104)
Official 1937 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses and a 2% discount for NL players):

1) Josh Gibson: Best ML/NeL player and catcher - not really close, IMO.
2) Joe DiMaggio: Best AL player and ML center fielder.
3) Joe Medwick: Best NL player and ML left fielder.
4) Bill Dickey: Best AL catcher.
5) Lou Gehrig: Best ML first baseman.
6) Johnny Mize: Best NL first baseman.
7) Willard Brown: Best ML/NeL shortstop.
8) Lefty Gomez: Best ML pitcher.
0) Hank Greenberg
10) Lefty Grove

Best NL pitcher: Jim Turner.
   10. DL from MN Posted: May 05, 2021 at 03:27 PM (#6017106)
ardape Posted: April 24, 2021 at 01:43 AM (#6015186)
Prelim ballot:

1. Josh Gibson - One of his best seasons.
2. Joe DiMaggio - Best ML player. Defense lifts him above some closely-bunched hitters.
3. Joe Medwick - NL MMP. Career year
4. Lou Gehrig - Defense drops him below DiMaggio and Medwick despite close hitting stats.
5. Hilton Smith - Best pitcher
6. Hank Greenberg - Not quite as good as the hitters at the top.
7. Bill Dickeky - Not Gibson as a hitter, obviously, but good hitting and strong defense at catcher is a great combination
8. Lefty Gomez - Best ML pitcher. Postseason bump for a strong World Series.
9. Ray Brown
10. Charlie Gehringer

11-21: Buck Leonard, Jim Turner, Ted Strong, Harland Clift, Red Ruffing, Newt Allen, Lefty Grove, Willard Brown, Luke Appling, Billy Herman.
   11. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: May 05, 2021 at 04:35 PM (#6017128)
1937 MMP Ballot:

1. Josh Gibson (23.77)
2. Lefty Gomez (23.69) - MMPitcher/AL MMP
3. Lefty Grove (20.51)
4. Joe DiMaggio (19.10) - AL MMPosition Player
5. Joe Medwick (18.97) - NL MMP
6. Lou Gehrig (17.56)
7. Hank Greenberg (17.22)
8. Charlie Gehringer (16.87)
9. Dick Bartell (16.06)
10. Luke Appling (14.79)

NgL MMPitcher - Martin Dihigo
NL MMPitcher - Jim Turner
   12. DL from MN Posted: May 05, 2021 at 04:55 PM (#6017137)
election is over, results shortly

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