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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Thursday, May 27, 2021Most Meritorious Player: 1939 DiscussionThe Yankees swept the Reds in the World Series. The Kansas City Monarchs defeated the St. Louis Stars in the Negro American League. The Baltimore Elite Giants defeated the Homestead Grays in a two round Negro National League playoff. Vote for 10. Player bWAR Joe DiMaggio 8.4 Johnny Mize 7.7 Arky Vaughan 5.8 Bill Dickey 5.5 Ted Williams 6.7 Jimmie Foxx 6.9 Dolph Camilli 6.4 Lonny Frey 6.5 Ival Goodman 5.3 Ken Keltner 4.4 Bob Johnson 6.6 George Selkirk 5.8 Harry Danning 4.2 Mel Ott 5.8 Charlie Gehringer 5.0 Joe Gordon 6.3 Buddy Lewis 5.6 Hank Greenberg 5.4 Luke Appling 4.3 Enos Slaughter 4.7 Hal Trosky 5.2 Billy Werber 3.9 Red Rolfe 6.6 Billy Herman 4.1 Joe Cronin 3.9 Billy Myers 5.7 Charlie Keller 4.9 Cookie Lavagetto 3.7 Joe Medwick 4.7 Frank McCormick 5.0 Hank Leiber 3.9 Harlond Clift 3.3 Max West 4.5 Morrie Arnovich 3.9 Josh Gibson 3.0 Buck Leonard 2.6 Willard Brown 2.2 Turkey Stearnes 2.1 Ted Strong 1.9 Sammy Hughes 1.6 Mule Suttles 1.5 Bill Hoskins 1.4 Ed Stone 1.4 Burnis Wright 1.2 Bus Clarkson 0.7 Pitcher bWAR Bucky Walters 9.7 Bob Feller 9.7 Bobo Newsom 7.7 Lefty Grove 6.8 Claude Passeau 6.0 Tommy Bridges 4.7 Ted Lyons 4.4 Dutch Leonard 4.8 Hugh Casey 5.2 Bob Bowman 5.2 Larry French 4.7 Bill Lee 5.1 Red Ruffing 4.4 Paul Derringer 4.6 Mel Harder 4.6 Johnny Rigney 4.5 Al Milnar 4.1 Luke Hamlin 4.8 Eddie Smith 4.3 Thornton Lee 4.1 Bill Byrd 3.7 Roy Partlow 3.1 Hilton Smith 3.0 George Walker 2.8 Henry McHenry 2.4 Leon Day 2.1 |
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1. DL from MN Posted: May 27, 2021 at 12:27 PM (#6021108)1) Josh Gibson - catchers who hit like Jimmie Foxx are really valuable
2) Bucky Walters - lots of innings and he could hit
3) Bob Feller - best pitcher but he didn't hit like Walters
4) Joe DiMaggio - best MLB position player
5) Johnny Mize
6) Buck Leonard
7) Bobo Newsom - pitcher heavy ballot this year
8) Lefty Grove
9) Arky Vaughan - shortstop replacement value is terrible this season
10) Bill Dickey
11-15) Ted Williams, Jimmie Foxx, Dolph Camilli, Martin Dihigo, Bill Byrd
16-20) Lonny Frey, Ival Goodman, Hilton Smith, Ken Keltner, Claude Passeau
Alex King
bjhanke
Esteban Rivera
Al Peterson
fra paulo
voxter
Howie Menckel
John Murphy
DL from MN
1) Bob Feller - the best pure pitcher in baseball
2) Bucky Walters - hitting and pitching combined value by BRef slightly ahead of Feller, but pitching in way easier league allowed for some of the pitching bulk advantage. My rough adjustment for that basically makes him a value tie with Feller, in which case I chose to go with the better pitcher. fWAR also agrees with this ordering of them with Feller comfortably ahead on total value.
3) Joe DiMaggio
4) Josh Gibson
5) Johnny Mize
6) Bobo Newsom
7) Jimmie Foxx
8) Ted Williams
9) Buck Leonard
10) Joe Gordon
11-20) Bob Johnson, Lefty Grove, Dolph Camilli, Red Rolfe, Bill Dickey, Arky Vaughan, Ival Goodman, Mel Ott, George Selkirk, Lonny Frey
It looks like Bobo Newsom's bWAR value was wrongly stated in the list, it should be 8.2 unless I am missing something. I am guessing hitting value was deducted. Edit: yes, the pitcher bWARS all include hitting value as well.
Honestly never heard of the guy before these two elections.
https://homemlb.wordpress.com/2021/06/03/a-very-deep-look-into-quality-of-play-for-the-negro-leagues/
I think keeping the same quality 1920-1948 is a little misleading. Throughout this project I've seen the changes in quality year-to-year. For example, when the Mexican Leagues opened up in the late 1930s they gained 30+ Negro Leaguers. That had to decrease the quality of the Negro Leagues. The Negro Leagues may have been able to replace Martin Dihigo but they didn't find someone as good as him.
Another thing that affected Negro League quality was how volatile the number of teams was from year to year. The Negro American League added 7 teams in 1937 - there is no way an expansion that big could happen without affecting league quality.
Between NAL expansion AND the Mexican League grabbing a team's worth of players I don't see any way NGL baseball could be of the same quality in 1938-39 (14 teams plus one Mexican League team worth of NGL talent minus an injured Satchel Paige) as it was in 1935-36 (8 teams - Paige at his peak).
Was the National League actually "way easier" than the American League? I'm guessing a great deal of the AL league strength is the Yankees. The Browns and Athletics were terrible. Feller had to pitch against the Yankees but DiMaggio got to hit against the Browns, A's and Senators.
Compared to today's baseball it is weird that the league average walk rate AND strikeout rate were 3.5 per 9 innings. Seven different teams had more walks allowed than strikeouts including the Yankees.
Yankees 4 - Reds 0
(Please move to 1939 ballot, site would only let me post in discussion thread)
1. Bucky Walters
2. Bob Feller
3. Josh Gibson
4. Johnny Mize
5. Joe DiMaggio
6. Ted Williams
7. Jimmie Foxx
8. Bobo Newsom
9. Paul Derringer
10.Dolph Camill
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