BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: Most Meritorious Player: 1945 Discussion

Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Wednesday, June 27, 2018

Most Meritorious Player: 1945 Discussion

Last year of wartime baseball, some players like Greenberg have found their way back to the majors.

The Tigers beat the Cubs in 7 games in the World Series.

The Cleveland Buckeyes swept the Homestead Grays in the Negro World Series.

Vote for 10.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Snuffy Stirnweiss	34.7		8.7
Stan Hack		33.4		6.0
Tommy Holmes		31.3		8.0
Eddie Lake		26.8		6.8
Phil Cavarretta		29.5		6.0
Roy Cullenbine		30.4		5.5
Vern Stephens		29.1		5.4
Eddie Stanky		26.1		5.0
Whitey Kurowski		25.7		4.8
Dixie Walker		27.6		4.9
Augie Galan		29.5		5.4
Joe Kuhel		25.0		4.2
Goody Rosen		30.2		4.8
Eddie Mayo		22.1		4.6
Lou Boudreau		17.4		3.9
Mel Ott			21.1		4.5
Oscar Grimes		21.5		3.6
Wally Moses		27.8		4.4
Andy Pafko		25.0		4.2
George Myatt		22.2		3.8
Bobby Estalella		17.0		4.1
Carden Gillenwater	16.8		3.7
Jeff Heath		21.2		4.0
George Case		20.7		3.5
Don Johnson		18.6		3.6
Buddy Lewis		16.9		3.3
Luis Olmo		22.2		2.9
Buster Adams		23.5		2.9
Jim Russell		20.6		3.2
Milt Byrnes		18.7		2.8
Hank Greenberg		16.5		3.1
Nick Etten		22.4		4.0
Bob Johnson		19.7		3.1
Marty Marion		16.7		2.9
Johnny Dickshot		20.4		2.6
Dutch Meyer		19.7		3.2
Bill Salkeld		16.9		3.7
Ernie Lombardi		17.8		3.7

Roy Campanella		19.0		2.7
Jackie Robinson		11.2		1.6
Josh Gibson		14.0		2.4
Ed Steele		5.6		1.2		
Johnny Davis		5.9		1.0
Neil Robinson		6.6		0.8
Sam Jethroe		9.7		1.3
Piper Davis		4.7		1.0
Buck Leonard		10.5		1.9
Wild Bill Wright	13.6		2.3
Avelino Canizares	8.2		0.9
Quincy Trouppe		3.4		0.4
Frank Austin		12.3		2.0


Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Hal Newhouser		37.4		12.0
Nels Potter		24.3		7.8
Preacher Roe		21.0		6.7
Steve Gromek		21.5		6.2
Roger Wolff		24.3		5.5
Claude Passeau		22.3		5.0
Dave Ferriss		24.3		4.7
Nick Strincevich	18.1		4.3
Hank Wyse		25.4		4.5
Bucky Walters		16.1		4.5
Thornton Lee		18.5		3.9
Red Barrett		25.1		4.5
Ken Burkhart		20.5		4.7
Van Lingle Mungo	15.7		3.4	
Ray Prim		16.4		3.8
Hank Borowy		21.7		4.3
Dutch Leonard		19.1		3.7
Harry Brecheen		17.3		4.3
Al Hollingsworth	14.5		4.0

Eugene Bremer		5.9		3.1
Roy Partlow		10.1		3.7
Johnny Wright		4.0		2.5
Bill Byrd		6.9		3.7
Booker McDaniel		4.5		2.7
Don Newcombe		1.4		1.2		
Willie Jefferson	1.7		0.9
John Brown		0.7		0.6
Patricio Scantlebury	6.7		2.2
Gentry Jessup		3.4		1.9
Verdell Mathis		2.3		0.6
Satchel Paige		1.3		0.3
Roy Welmaker		8.3		3.8

DL from MN Posted: June 27, 2018 at 10:31 AM | 10 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Related News:

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

1. DL from MN Posted: June 27, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5700487)

This was the lowest-scoring, lightest-hitting World Series in Negro Leagues history. The two teams combined for a composite batting average of .195 and slugging percentage of .222. Cleveland's numbers were poor, but Homestead's were pathetic. The Buckeyes scored 14 runs, batted .220, and slugged .274, with the only home run in the Series; Homestead scored three runs, and endured the last 22 consecutive innings without a single score. All three runs were earned, giving the Buckeyes a team ERA of 0.75.

No MVP award was ever made in the various Negro World Series, but Quincy Trouppe's .400 batting average and .600 slugging percentage in the four games topped everyone.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/1945_Negro_World_Series

2. DL from MN Posted: June 27, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5700510)

1945 Prelim

1) Hal Newhouser - best ERA and most innings
2) Snuffy Stirnweiss - good bat and a good fielding SS
3) Stan Hack
4) Tommy Holmes
5) Roy Campanella - best player in NGL baseball
6) Eddie Lake
7) Jackie Robinson
8) Nels Potter - good hitter for a pitcher
9) Roy Cullenbine
10) Phil Cavaretta

11-15) Preacher Roe, Eddie Stanky, Vern Stephens, Josh Gibson, Whitey Kurowski
16-22) Eugene Bremer, Verdell Mathis, Sam Jethroe, Roger Wolff, Dixie Walker, Roy Partlow, Augie Galan

I have no trouble believing 26 year old NGL rookie Jackie Robinson was already as good as Eddie Lake and better than Vern Stephens. He had the best OPS+ in NGL baseball.

3. DL from MN Posted: June 27, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5700516)

Best pitching seasons in the history of the MMP project by my point score

1985 Gooden 21.5
1995 Maddux 21.4
1972 Carlton 21.2
1994 Maddux 20.6
1997 Clemens 19.9
1968 Gibson 19.5
2000 P Martinez 19.5
2009 Greinke 19.1
1902 Waddell 19.1
1944 Trout 19.0
1945 NEWHOUSER 18.8
1963 Koufax 18.7
1972 Seaver 18.3
2004 Santana 18.2
1971 Seaver 18.0
1999 P Martinez 18.0
1971 Wood 17.9
2015 Greinke 17.9
1901 Young 17.8
1978 Guidry 17.7
1972 Perry 17.7
1995 Johnson 17.7
1980 Carlton 17.5
1953 Roberts 17.5

4. bjhanke Posted: June 29, 2018 at 07:03 AM (#5702051)

DL - As you know, I start my work wit the great headers you put up. But this time there are no WAR values for Luis Olmo, Buster Adams, or Johnny Dickshot. They do have Win Shares numbers. I'm not certain which version of WAR you use, although "BBR" suggests BB-Reference. If that's what you use, I can look them up myself. But if you use a different version of WAR, could you please list them for me - and possibly other voters? Thanks! - Brock

5. DL from MN Posted: June 29, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5702112)

Sorry - those guys showed up in Win Shares a lot higher than WAR and I forgot to put the WAR numbers in. Should be fixed now. Incidentally - not bad enough that a person's name is Johnny Dickshot his nickname was "Ugly". Ugly Dickshot.

6. bjhanke Posted: June 29, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5702220)

Thank, DL, for doing this and doing it so fast. I had to restrain myself several times to avoid saying anything about Johnny Dickshot's name. I'm glad somebody did. - Brock

7. caiman Posted: June 30, 2018 at 06:34 PM (#5702798)

Here's the RPA top players from 1945, in regards to runs produced above the median:

1. Phil Cavaretta 43.62 runs
2. Hal Newhouser 38.31 runs
3. Augie Galan 36.53 runs
4. Nels Potter 34.96 runs
5. Tommy Holmes 35.04 runs
6. Mel Ott 33.60 runs
7. Eddie Lake 32.78 runs
8. Stan Hack 32.37 runs
9. Roy Cullenbine 31.73 runs
10. Jeff Heath 30.83 runs
11. Goody Rosen 29.24 runs
12. Bobby Estalella 27.45 runs
13. Whitey Kurowski 25.54 runs

8. DL from MN Posted: July 23, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5714206)

1945 World Series

Player Name  G  AB  R  H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  SO  BA  OBP  SLG  OPS  SB  CS  E
Roy Cullenbine 7 22 5 5 2 0 0 4 8 2 .227 .433 .318 .752 1 0 0
Hank Greenberg 7 23 7 7 3 0 2 7 6 5 .304 .467 .696 1.162 0 0 0
Eddie Mayo 7 28 4 7 1 0 0 2 3 2 .250 .323 .286 .608 0 0 2

Phil Cavarretta 7 26 7 11 2 0 1 5 4 3 .423 .500 .615 1.115 0 0 0
Stan Hack 7 30 1 11 3 0 0 4 4 2 .367 .441 .467 .908 0 1 3
Don Johnson 7 29 4 5 2 1 0 0 0 8 .172 .172 .310 .483 1 0 1
Andy Pafko 7 28 5 6 2 1 0 2 2 5 .214 .267 .357 .624 1 0 1

Pitcher Name  G  GS  ERA  W  L  SV  CG  IP  H  R  ER  BB  SO  WHIP  
Hal Newhouser 3 3 6.10 2 1 0 2 20.2 25 14 14 4 22 1.403
Hank Borowy 4 3 4.00 2 2 0 1 18.0 21 8 8 6 8 1.500
Claude Passeau 3 2 2.70 1 0 0 1 16.2 7 5 5 8 3 0.900
Ray Prim 2 1 9.00 0 1 0 0 4.0 4 5 4 1 1 1.250
Hank Wyse 3 1 7.04 0 1 0 0 7.2 8 7 6 4 1 1.565

9. bjhanke Posted: July 26, 2018 at 03:42 AM (#5716134)

Hi. This is Brock Hanke. I won’t be available to post a ballot on the ballot thread, so could someone please take this one from this thread and post it over to the Ballot Thread? Thanks in advance. I work at GenCon next week, and there’s no internet access and no time.

So, this is the final 1945 ballot for Brock Hanke. As has become regular, there is a LOT more consensus here than there will be in later ballots, so I’m happier with just using the consensus ordinals of Win Shares and WAR. As it turned out, I had a flat tie for tenth place, but that was OK, since I hadn’t slotted in any Negro Leaguers. I decided on Roy Campanella, because his Negro League numbers are even better than Josh Gibson’s. Gibson vs. Vern Stephens for tenth place was hard, but the consensus for Stephens is very strong. He ranks 9th in Win Shares and 13th in WAR, which is better than you almost ever get, so I went with Vern instead of Josh. If either one of them had played anywhere other than shortstop or catcher, I’d have gone with the one with the stronger defensive position, but they were, in fact, a shortstop and a catcher, neither one a Gold Glove.

One note for anyone who isn’t that familiar with WWII baseball and the decade after: During the war, and for some years after, walk totals were really really high, and many of the best players are ranked here largely on the basis of their on-base percentages. Hack, Cullenbine, Lake, and Galan are archetypes of this (Eddie Stanky would be tied for 12th, if no Negro Leaguers were counted), and wildly underrated by historians. This went on for some years after the war, resulting in a generation of 1950s pitchers who pitched a lot of fastballs and never walked anybody.

Here are my rankings:

1. Hal Newhouser
2. Snuffy Stirnweiss
3. Tommy Holmes
4. Stan Hack
5. Roy Campanella
6. Roy Cullenbine
7. Phil Cavaretta
8. Eddie Lake
9. Augie Galan
10. Vern Stephens

10. bjhanke Posted: July 26, 2018 at 03:48 AM (#5716135)

Heh. Just to ask, did anyone else notice that, in the WS, Stan Hack, presumably hitting leadoff, put up 11 hits, with 3 doubles and 4 walks, driving in 4 runs, but only scoring ONE? How do you do that? Or, rather, how do your teams do that to you? - Brock

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

<< Back to main

Wednesday, June 27, 2018

Most Meritorious Player: 1945 Discussion

Reader Comments and Retorts

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

Bookmarks

Hot Topics

Syndicate