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Friday, July 26, 2013

Most Meritorious Player: 1984 Ballot

For 1984, each voter should rank their top 13 players from both leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EST on 7 August 2013.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 6 August 2013.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: July 26, 2013 at 01:54 PM | 32 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: July 26, 2013 at 02:13 PM (#4504848)
Chris Fluit Posted: July 08, 2013 at 10:04 PM (#4488299)

I'll be leaving soon for a family vacation without internet access (for the most part) and won't be back until August. But I don't want to miss a vote so DL (or anyone else), please re-post this to the 1984 ballot thread when appropriate. Thanks.

1984 Prelim Ballot

1. Cal Ripken Jr., SS, Baltimore Orioles: even better than his '83 MVP campaign with +23 fielding runs to go along with a 146 OPS+ and 122 runs created
2. Ryne Sandberg, 2B, Chicago Cubs: the Baseball Writers got this one right; +12 fielding runs, a 140 OPS+ and 126 runs created make Ryno the best player in the National League
3. Gary Carter, C, Montreal Expos: the defense is down a bit from '83 (only +8 runs) but the bat is back in a big way- 143 OPS+ and 108 runs created
4. Eddie Murray, 1B, Baltimore Orioles: 157 OPS+ and 130 runs created, plus a strong glove with +10 fielding runs
5. Mike Schmidt, 3B, Philadelphia Phillies: an NL-leading 154 OPS+ and a respectable 108 runs created to go with +10 fielding runs
6. Dave Stieb, P, Toronto Blue Jays: one of the more difficult years to assess pitchers- or maybe just a really poor year for pitching in the Senior Circuit- I could have ranked Stieb as high as 3rd (where WAR ranks him) or as low as 8th
7. Alan Trammell, SS, Detroit Tigers: a shade below Ripken in every facet: 136 OPS+, 100 runs created, +15 fielding runs- but still a great year
8. Don Mattingly, 1B, New York Yankees: a shade below Murray in every facet- 156 OPS+, 120 runs created and +6 fielding runs- but still a great year
9. Mike Boddicker, P, Baltimore Orioles: a 139 ERA+ in 261 innings
10. Tim Raines, CF, Montreal Raines: the Rock takes over in centerfield for the Hawk and posts a 138 OPS+ with a 124 runs created
11. Bert Blyleven, P, Cleveland Indians: a 144 ERA+ in 245 innings
12. Doyle Alexander, P, Toronto Blue Jays: I don’t remember Doyle ever being this good- maybe because he’s more famous for being on the wrong side of the John Smoltz trade- but a 132 ERA+ in 161 innings gets him a low ballot MMP vote
13. Dale Murphy, CF, Atlanta Braves: a 149 OPS+ and 123 runs created but he wasn’t as good a fielder as people remember (minus 8 fielding runs)

14. Alvin Davis, 1B, Seattle Mariners: a career year from Davis- 147 OPS+ and 117 runs created- falls just short of the ballot
15. Frank Viola, P, Minnesota Twins: close to being the 5th AL starting pitcher on the ballot with a 131 ERA+ in 257 innings
16. Dwight Evans, RF, Boston Red Sox: Dewey can still hit (147 OPS+ and 132 runs created) but his defense has dropped off considerably (minus 9 runs)
17. Bruce Sutter, RP, St. Louis Cardinals: a 227 ERA+ in 122 innings makes him the best pitcher in the NL
18. Lloyd Moseby, CF, Toronto Blue Jays: a 127 OPS+ and +20 fielding runs in center
19. Kent Hrbek, 1B, Minnesota Twins: a 145 OPS+ and +12 fielding runs at first
20. Rick Rhoden, P, Pittsburgh Pirates: the best starting pitcher in the NL with a 134 ERA+ in 238 innings though this Gooden kid who finished 26th on my ratings looks to have a bright future ahead of him

   2. DL from MN Posted: July 26, 2013 at 02:26 PM (#4504868)
1984 Ballot

1) Cal Ripken - Not really close. Best season by anyone since 1981.
2) Ryne Sandberg - Best NL player, great defender this year also
3) Gary Carter - C bonus helps him with his highest showing to date
4) Alan Trammell - Great regular season and great in the postseason also. They picked the wrong Tiger.
5) Mike Schmidt - like clockwork
6) Dave Stieb - top AL pitcher for the 3rd year in a row
7) Tim Raines - Only average defensively but tremendous value on the basepaths
8) Eddie Murray - steady Eddie is the best 1B
9) Tony Gwynn - good defender in 84
10) Jose Cruz - Didn't know his number was retired until I looked him up researching this year
11) Dale Murphy
12) Bert Blyleven - second best P
13) Robin Yount - Great time for SS

14-20) Dwight Evans, Wade Boggs, Buddy Bell, Keith Hernandez, Don Mattingly, Dave Winfield, Lloyd Moseby
   3. lieiam Posted: July 27, 2013 at 10:00 AM (#4505282)
final ballot:

1 RIPKEN, CAL 9854
5 GWYNN, TONY 7456
6 STIEB, DAVE 7415
8 RAINES, TIM 7097
10 CRUZ, JOSE 6916
13 MURPHY, DALE 6574

16 BELL, BUDDY 6454
17 BOGGS, WADE 6428

Ripken comes out alone on top using 3 of the 6 systems I'm using.
Ripken and Sandberg tie atop one system.
Sandberg comes out alone on top using 2 of the 6 systems.
   4. Mr. C Posted: July 29, 2013 at 01:06 PM (#4506861)
1984 Ballot

WAR framework based on Value Added Runs with a reduction in replacement runs: WARR (Wins above reduced replacement)

1.Cal Ripken 9.38 WARR
2. Tony Gwynn 7.77 WARR
3. Eddie Murray 7.67 WARR
4. Keith Hernandez 7.23 WARR
5. Dave Stieb 7.05 WARR
6. Ryne Sandberg 7.04 WARR
7. Buddy Bell 6.81 WARR
8. Jose Cruz 6.78 WARR
9. Gary Carter 6.74 WARR
10. Alan Trammell 6.59 WARR
11. Alvin Davis 6.38 WARR
12. Kent Hrbek 6.13 WARR
13. Lloyd Moseby 6.00 WARR

The rest of the top 20
Bert Blyleven
Tony Pena
Doyle Alexander
Mike Schmidt
Ricky Henderson
Tim Raines
Don Mattingly

Top NL pitcher: #21 Rick Rhoden (Gooden had the best pitching numbers, but Rhoden's hitting ability moved him ahead)
   5. DL from MN Posted: July 29, 2013 at 01:17 PM (#4506872)
That is the first time Mike Schmidt has been left off-ballot since 1978.
   6. caiman Posted: July 30, 2013 at 10:10 AM (#4507697)
Here's my 1984 RPA top hitters in the NL, by run value:

Tim Raines OF 24 Montreal 45.72
Gary Carter C 30 Montreal 39.91
Jose Cruz OF 36 Houston 36.02
Keith Hernandez 1B 30 New York 31.74
Mike Schmidt 3B 34 Philadelphia 30.58
Ryne Sandberg 2B 24 Chicago 25.24
Dale Murphy OF 28 Atlanta 22.94
Terry Puhl OF 27 Houston 22.51
Tony Gwynn OF 24 San Diego 22.45
Gary Matthews OF 33 Chicago 21.94
Chili Davis OF 24 San Francisco 21.24
Jeffrey Leonard OF 28 San Francisco 20.20
Lee Lacy OF 36 Pittsburgh 18.56
Darryl Strawberry OF 22 New York 18.21
   7. caiman Posted: July 30, 2013 at 10:12 AM (#4507698)
Here's my 1984 RPA top pitchers in the NL, by run value:

Dwight Gooden 17-9 19 New York 27.28
Orel Hershiser 11-8 25 Los Angeles 20.51
Alejandro Pena 12-6 25 Los Angeles 19.14
Rick Mahler 13-10 30 Atlanta 18.90
John Denny 7-7 31 Philadelphia 17.27
Fernando Valenzuela 12-17 23 Los Angeles 16.93
Mario Soto 18-7 27 Cincinnati 16.56
Dennis Eckersley 14-12 29 Chic/Bost 14.76
Rick Sutcliffe 20-6 28 Chic/Cleve 14.54
Scott Sanderson 8-5 27 Chicago 14.38
Joaquin Andujar 20-14 31 St. Louis 14.37
   8. caiman Posted: July 30, 2013 at 10:14 AM (#4507702)
Here's my 1984 RPA top hitters in the AL, by run value:

Eddie Murray 1B 28 Baltimore 51.03
Don Mattingly 1B 23 New York 36.28
Cal Ripken SS 23 Baltimore 36.05
Dave Winfield OF 32 New York 34.73
Rickey Henderson OF 25 Oakland 34.38
Kirk Gibson OF 27 Detroit 31.00
Alvin Davis 1B 23 Seattle 29.31
Dwight Evans OF 32 Boston 26.86
Dwayne Murphy OF 29 Oakland 25.29
Kent Hrbek 1B 24 Minnesota 24.86
Don Baylor DH 35 New York 23.56
Dave Kingman DH 35 Oakland 23.23
Robin Yount SS 28 Milwaukee 23.03
Alan Trammell SS 26 Detroit 22.34
   9. caiman Posted: July 30, 2013 at 10:16 AM (#4507704)
Here's my 1984 RPA top pitchers in the AL, by run value:

Bert Blyleven 19-7 33 Cleveland 29.40
Dave Stieb 16-8 26 Toronto 23.77
Tom Seaver 15-11 39 Chicago 23.12
Willie Hernandez 9-3 29 Detroit 23.10
Doyle Alexander 17-6 33 Toronto 21.36
Frank Viola 18-12 24 Minnesota 19.66
Buddy Black 17-12 27 Kansas City 19.56
Richard Dotson 14-15 25 Chicago 18.04
Storm Davis 14-9 22 Baltimore 16.98
Mike Witt 15-11 23 California 16.33
Geoff Zahn 13-10 38 California 15.86
Mike Mason 9-13 25 Texas 14.42
LaMarr Hoyt 13-18 29 Chicago 14.32
Dan Quisenberry 6-3 31 Kansas City 13.84
Oil Can Boyd 12-12 24 Boston 13.22
Bret Saberhagen 10-11 20 Kansas City 13.11
   10. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: July 30, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4507871)
C&P from the discussion thread, as nothing happened to change my mind:

1. Ripken, obvs. -- Weird note: my uncle Bobby was a dead ringer for Cal, Jr, until Bobby got super fat.
2. Gary Carter -- catcher bonus
3. Ryne Sandberg -- When I was a kid, the Cubs were on the tube all the time, and I loved the #### out of Ryne Sandberg.
4. Tim Raines -- Subject of maybe my 2nd-favorite player comment in the NBJHA, after Ernie Lombardi.
5. Dave Stieb -- can never remember how to spell his danged name. Did I get it right?
6. Rik Albert
7. Mr Lloyd Moseby
8. Trammell
9. Schmidt -- If there were a way to vote Trammell & Schmidt in the same spot, I'd do it.
10. E Murray
11. Dale Murphy -- Hometown hero when I was a kid. Shirttail cousin of mine -- we share like a great-great-great grandmother or something, I forgot.
12. Gwynn -- Favorite freakshow talent of the 80s-90s. Got fat, quit fielding, never had much power, but literally never quit hitting singles as long as he was in the game. Seriously: the man batted .324 at the age of 41 some seventeen years after this. He's 53 now and I'd bet he could still bat .300. The only thing that stopped him was his inability to stay on the field. Also, an hilariously high voice for a big man.
13. J Cruz
   11. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: July 31, 2013 at 10:45 PM (#4509862)
1. Ripken--amazing he dropped from #1 to #27 in the MVP vote from '83 to '84, 85-win O's were 5th in East but won one more game than West champ Royals
2. Sandberg--great season, helped lead Cubs to first postseason since '45. I just noticed his BB Ref page now has a horrib pic of Ryno with a bad cop mustache
3. K Hernandez--a great comeback story for player and franchise. The right leader for this young team, made everyone better
4. Gwynn--best player on a surprising SD team
5. G Carter--how do you trade this man after this season?!?!
6. Murray--along with Cal, didn't slump after winning it all unlike most of the rest of the team
7. Schmidt--amazing how he put up MVP-caliber numbers almost every year, DL said it best--like clockwork
8. Trammell--most important player on ensemble '84 Tigers
9. Dw Evans--an underrated year by an underrated player--if he doesn't get on the upcoming Exp Era VC ballot I will absolutely go primate poop
10. Raines--in the middle of excellent string of great years
11. Steib--not a great year for pitchers but looks like he was the best
12. Dale Murphy--maybe not the most dominant player in the game but still excellent
13. Blyleven--quietly excellent with the Tribe
   12. DL from MN Posted: August 01, 2013 at 10:56 AM (#4510187)
Thanks for voting, Tubbs.
   13. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: August 01, 2013 at 11:28 PM (#4510847)
Thanks for putting the MMP together, DL.
   14. Moeball Posted: August 02, 2013 at 01:05 PM (#4511370)
I'll just reiterate from my prelim discussion - no changes to final ballot:

3)Gary Carter
4)T Gwynn
6)E. Murray
7)Keith Hernandez
8)Lloyd Moseby
9)Dave Stieb
11)Mike Schmidt
   15. EricC Posted: August 02, 2013 at 03:51 PM (#4511531)
1984 ballot. Same as prelim.

1. Cal Ripken
2. Ryne Sandberg
3. Eddie Murray
4. Rickey Henderson
5. Gary Carter
6. Tony Gwynn
7. Dave Stieb
8. Alan Trammell
9. Keith Hernandez
10. Don Mattingly
11. Wade Boggs
12. Jose Cruz
13. Buddy Bell
   16. Kiko Sakata Posted: August 04, 2013 at 04:21 PM (#4512656)
See comment #55 of the discussion thread for my explanations:

1. Cal Ripken
2. Ryne Sandberg
3. Alan Trammell
4. Kirk Gibson
5. Eddie Murray
6. Gary Carter
7. Mike Schmidt
8. Dwight Evans
9. Willie Hernandez
10. Tony Gwynn
11. Dale Murphy
12. Rickey Henderson
13. Lou Whitaker
   17. DL from MN Posted: August 05, 2013 at 04:46 PM (#4513489)
Voted previously, no prelim or ballot yet:

Rob Wood, SavoyBG, bjhanke, Yardape, John Murphy

Add those voters and we would see 15 ballots.
   18. bjhanke Posted: August 06, 2013 at 01:31 PM (#4514328)
This is Brock Hanke’s 1984 MMP ballot, just barely in time.

I’m sure that it will come as a shock to all that my method was to correlate the players’ Win Share / WAR ordinals in the lists DL is kind enough to provide, and then tweak from there. And I’m sure no one has guessed, from my earlier ballot comments, that WAR tends to rate pitchers higher than Win Shares does. Or, this being comic book convention season, that this ballot will be short of comments. One thing I did want to seriously mention is that, a year or two ago, DL mentioned that he doesn’t have every player in his lists, and so using them as a starting point might cause me to miss someone. I checked over the last few years, though, and I could not find anybody who would have made my ballot that DL did not list. Good job, DL! And VERY VERY helpful, at least to me. Keep it up. With no further ado, here is my 1984 ballot.

1. Cal Ripken
2. Ryne Sandberg
3. Gary Carter
4. Eddie Murray
5. Tony Gwynn
6. Tim Raines
7. Keith Hernandez
8. Alan Trammell
9. Lloyd Moseby
10. Jose Cruz
11. Dave Stieb
12. Dale Murphy
13. Bert Blyleven

Actually, Ripken and Sandberg tied in the ordinals, but WAR has Ripken ahead of Sandberg by a much larger margin than Win Shares has Ryne ahead of Cal.

Gary Carter was actually fourth in the ordinals, behind Eddie Murray, but the gap is small, and so any catcher bonus I gave would make up the difference. So, Gary ahead of Eddie.

Tim Raines and Keith Hernandez were tied in the ordinals, and Keith’s advantage in Win Shares was greater than Tim’s in WAR, but I gave Tim a bonus for being able to play more positions than just first base.

Alan Trammell and Lloyd Moseby were the same thing as the above. Alan and Lloyd tied in the ordinals, but Trammell was a shortstop.

I was a huge Jose Cruz fan when he first came up with the Cardinals, and had visions of his being the starting CF for a decade. I was just furious when they traded him to the Astros. And, although this is the first time he’s made my MMP ballot, I still think I was right.

Dave Stieb was actually my 11th-ranked player according to the ordinals. However, Murphy and Blyleven were not 12th and 13th. They were what I call “must-dos.” This means that they rank so high in one system that I’m not willing to leave them out, in spite of their low rankings in the other ordinal. Murphy ranks 6th in Win Shares, 25th in WAR. Bert ranks 6th in WAR, but 35th in Win Shares.

The one guy who certainly missed my ballot due to the must-dos was Don Mattingly. He’d be my #14. Wade Boggs and Mike Schmidt were tied in the ordinals for what would have been 13th place, but both were run off by Dale and Bert, so I spent no effort trying to figure out which one I would have ranked higher. Dwight Evans was close to a must-do. He ranks 9th in Win Shares, but 26th in WAR.
   19. John DiFool2 Posted: August 06, 2013 at 08:00 PM (#4514662)
Grasp the rules, since this was such a magical season for the Cubs (until those last 3 games of course), I figured I would become the lone dissenter for the #1 spot:

1. Ryne Sandberg: Okay, 1.4 WAR gap between the two in favor of Cal. How much of that is based on solid evidence, and how much on fuzzier metrics? Defense of course makes up almost all of the difference (23 runs vs. 13): for the 5 years surrounding 1984 (inclusive), BBRef has Cal's D as worth

0 (!)

Avg. 11.2



Avg. 6.0

Other systems might also close the gap.

For some strange reason BBRef gives Cal a 4 run edge on baserunning (4-0), despite the stolen bases being 32-7 to 2-1, Ryno. That simply doesn't pass the smell test, given how much faster Ryno was.

Once you adjust for that stuff, the gap becomes less than half a run, which is too close to call. At that point I'll note Ryno has a 4.6 to 3.5 gap in WPA, and that his performance may have made enough of a difference to ensure his team won the division (vs. the Orioles finishing a distant 5th). I don't put a huge premium on a team's finishing position in such things, but if it otherwise this close I will.

2. Cal Ripken.
3. Dave Stieb. Clearly the best pitcher that year.
4. Gary Carter. A catcher with his D leads the league in RBI's, and finishes 14th in the MVP balloting??
5. Eddie Murray. So how many Cy's and MVP's did these 3 guys win in some alternate universe?
6. Mike Schmidt. Just another excellent season for comparison with some other great retired players, he doesn't seem to get much press anymore...
7. Bert Blyleven. Add him to the Alternate Universe Award list...
8. Alan Trammell. Ditto (this is becoming a trend...).
9. Tim Raines. x5.
10. Wade Boggs. 2nd favorite player of the 80's after Ryno.
11. Tony Gwynn
12. Rick Rhoden
13. Don Mattingly
14. Chet Lemon. Detroit CF was huge back then...
15. Keith Hernandez.
   20. Qufini Posted: August 06, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4514900)
For some strange reason BBRef gives Cal a 4 run edge on baserunning (4-0), despite the stolen bases being 32-7 to 2-1, Ryno. That simply doesn't pass the smell test, given how much faster Ryno was.

First of all, the edge is 2-0, not 4-0. Second, that might have something to do with Ryno making 14 outs on the bases (not including the caught stealing) and Cal making only 2 outs that way. You might want to take a longer look at the numbers before dismissing them out of hand. Being base-running savvy is often more important than being speedy.

Finally, you can rip the writers association all you like for ignoring Stieb/Carter et al but they came up with some of their screwy results by following biases instead of numbers. Kind of like you just did.
   21. Qufini Posted: August 06, 2013 at 11:20 PM (#4514903)

ps. You made allowances for defense and baserunning but you never quite explained how a 140 OPS+ from a second baseman is more valuable than a 146 OPS+ from a shortstop.
   22. Voodoo Posted: August 06, 2013 at 11:24 PM (#4514905)
Ryno has a 4.6 to 3.5 gap in WPA

How much of that difference is that one game -- the Ryne Sandberg game?
   23. Mr. C Posted: August 07, 2013 at 12:51 AM (#4514921)
Final 1984 Ballot

I apologize to everyone, but I have to revise my ballot. I discovered that I had double counted the park factors with my position players.

1. Cal Ripken 9.22 WARR
2. Ryne Sandberg 7.57 WARR
3. Tony Gwynn 7.55 WARR
4. Eddie Murray 7.51 WARR
5. Keith Hernandez 7.09 WARR
6. Dave Stieb 7.05 WARR
7. Buddy Bell 6.74 WARR
8. Alvin Davis 6.38 WARR
9. Gary Carter 6.74 WARR
10. Kent Hrbek 6.49 WARR
11. Jose Cruz 6.47 WARR
12. Alan Trammell 6.45 WARR
13. Lloyd Moseby 6.25 WARR

The rest of the top 20
Bert Blyleven
Tony Pena
Doyle Alexander
Mike Schmidt
Dwight Evans
Tim Raines
Ricky Henderson
Don Mattingly

Top NL pitcher: #21 Rick Rhoden (Gooden had the best pitching numbers, but Rhoden's hitting ability moved him ahead)
   24. DL from MN Posted: August 07, 2013 at 09:37 AM (#4515001)
Glad to see Rick Rhoden get a vote. Also, Mr. C's revised ballot entered.

Here's how Dan R has Ripken v Sandberg

Ripken 3.9 0.2 1.9 -4.4 10.4 7.1
Sandberg 3.8 0.6 1.9 -1.9 8.1 6.5

The batting wins are even. Sandberg is ahead on baserunning by 4 runs. Fielding versus position is even. The difference is playing SS (Rep2) and it makes sense. All else equal playing SS is worth more than playing 2B.
   25. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 07, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4515136)
1984 MMP Official Ballot (no postseason bonus credit):

1) Ryne Sandberg: Best ML player and second baseman.
2) Cal Ripken: Best ML shortstop - really close to being the best player himself.
3) Tim Raines: Best ML center fielder.
4) Tony Gwynn: Best ML right fielder.
5) Gary Carter: Best ML catcher.
6) Dale Murphy: Best ML surname.
7) Eddie Murray: Best ML first baseman.
8) Jose Cruz: Best ML left fielder.
9) Don Mattingly: Best NY first baseman.
10) Alan Trammell: Best ML shortstop named Alan Trammell.
11) Buddy Bell: Best ML third Baseman.
12) Keith Hernandez: Best NL first baseman.
13) Dave Steib: Best ML pitcher.
   26. Cassidemius Posted: August 07, 2013 at 02:32 PM (#4515322)
I missed last year and I just got this put together, so I didn't have time to post a prelim. If that's not all right, feel free to discount this ballot and I'll try to be on top of things next time. I'm using a Win Shares framework, with Extrapolated Runs as the offensive component and a mixture of FIP and RA-based pitching metrics.

1. Ryne Sandberg
2. Cal Ripken, Jr. - WAR has Cal ahead, but WS likes Sandberg, and I tend to like the WS system. Sandberg also gets a slight postseason bump.
3. Tony Gwynn - With playoff credit, Gwynn actually gets into the orbit of the middle infielders.
4. Dale Murphy
5. Tim Raines - One of my favourites growing up, but Murphy edges him for best ML CFer.
6. Dwight Evans - A lot of good outfielders this season.
7. Lloyd Moseby - Another favourite of mine in his first great year.
8. Kirk Gibson - Gets a big boost from the playoffs.
9. Alan Trammell
10. Gary Carter - Best ML catcher.
11. Chet Lemon - A lot of Tigers on my list, which makes a lot of sense.
12. Dwight Gooden - A taste of things to come.
13. Jose Cruz

Lou Whitaker just misses, and must be feeling left out with all of his teammates on my ballot. Hernandez, Henderson, Boggs and Carmelo Martinez (!) are also just off. Dave Stieb is my AL Pitcher of the year. Guillermo Hernandez was the best relief pitcher.
   27. DL from MN Posted: August 07, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4515338)
Yardape - you're the first person to leave off Eddie Murray. What don't you like?
   28. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: August 07, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4515345)
No ballot from me -- just a note that it warms my heart to see Lloyd Moseby's name among these lists. My favourite player from that era.
   29. DL from MN Posted: August 07, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4515382)
Voted previously, no prelim or ballot yet:

Rob Wood, SavoyBG

I think this would be the first ballot Rob Wood missed.
   30. DL from MN Posted: August 07, 2013 at 04:17 PM (#4515408)
Going to wait to see if fra paulo wants his prelim posted and counted.
   31. Mr Dashwood Posted: August 07, 2013 at 04:47 PM (#4515426)
1 - Cal Ripken is a full win ahead of anyone else. This season's dominance resembles some of the Schmidt/Morgan seasons of the 1970s.
2 - Gary Carter gets a big boost from park and from his position, to carry him ahead of some players with better unadjusted wOBAs.
3 - Rickey Henderson doesn't look so good in the systems displayed at the top of the page here as he does in mine. I have him close to Carter in value, and again he gains from playing in a pitcher's park.
4 - Alan Trammell is overshadowed by Ripken. Not as much power, didn't walk as much, worse fielder. Nonetheless, he is a remarkably good hitter for a shortstop.
5 - Tim Raines.
6 - Dave Stieb finished exactly equal to Raines, but I put Raines ahead because his raw value was hurt a little bit more by his ballpark than Stieb's, despite my usual preference to break ties in favour of pitchers. Was it harder to hit in the NL or harder to pitch in the AL? This could be another tiebreaker.
7 - Bert Blylevyn has a case to be ranked ahead of Stieb, but I would definitely put him behind Raines, which is another reason to put Raines ahead of Stieb. Blylevyn had better control than Stieb, and although he gave up the same number of homers, he surrendered notably fewer doubles and fewer hits overall.
8 - Ryne Sandberg, in my memory, seemed likely to be at the top of my ballot. But I discounted him heavily on account of his playing in a hitter's haven. Also, NL 2Bs hit really well, almost as good as NL 3Bs. (But shortstops hit embarrassingly badly in the NL.)
9 - Jose Cruz is THE BIGGEST SURPRISE ON MY BALLOT. I have no real memory of him for this season. His raw value is hidden by the Astrodome, but also by the fact that NL LFs were the worst hitters of the three OF positions. (Had Raines played in any other than CF, he again would have done a bit better.)
10 - Mike Schmidt.
11 - Tony Gwynn.
12 - Eddie Murray is the lowest ranked of a trio very close in total value. So I ranked them by their positional adjustments.
13 - Robin Yount gets the nod ahead of Don Mattingly in part because his completely unadjusted wOBA is a little bit higher compared with the positional average wOBA than Mattingly's.
   32. DL from MN Posted: August 07, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4515444)
Balloting is closed

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