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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Thursday, October 10, 2019Most Meritorious Player: 2019 DiscussionVote for 15. Player WS bWAR Cody Bellinger 33.9 9.0 Alex Bregman 34.7 8.4 Mike Trout 33.5 8.3 Marcus Semien 33.2 8.1 Christian Yelich 33.0 7.1 Ketel Marte 28.2 6.9 Mookie Betts 27.0 6.8 Matt Chapman 23.9 6.7 Trevor Story 22.4 6.4 Anthony Rendon 30.4 6.3 George Springer 24.1 6.2 Josh Donaldson 25.9 6.1 DJ LeMahieu 28.9 6.0 Nolan Arenado 24.4 5.7 Max Muncy 23.2 5.7 Jorge Polanco 25.0 5.7 Ronald Acuna 27.3 5.5 Aaron Judge 17.4 5.4 Rafael Devers 23.4 5.3 Xander Bogaerts 25.5 5.2 Matt Olson 20.3 5.1 Pete Alonso 27.0 5.0 Jeff McNeil 23.5 5.0 Javier Baez 17.3 4.8 Ozzie Albies 29.1 4.8 Francisco Lindor 22.4 4.7 Kolten Wong 23.9 4.7 Juan Soto 25.3 4.7 Yoan Moncada 26.1 4.6 Michael Brantley 19.4 4.6 Nick Ahmed 16.4 4.5 Freddie Freeman 26.2 4.4 Carlos Santana 23.9 4.5 Gleyber Torres 26.0 3.9 Josh Bell 24.1 2.9 JT Realmuto 24.0 4.4 Mitch Garver 16.7 4.0 Yasmani Grandal 21.5 2.5 Pitcher WS bWAR Jacob deGrom 18.4 7.9 Justin Verlander 21.2 7.8 Mike Minor 18.2 7.6 Lance Lynn 18.1 7.6 Gerrit Cole 20.4 6.8 Stephen Strasburg 17.5 6.5 Zack Greinke 19.4 6.4 Jack Flaherty 16.3 6.0 Eduardo Rodriguez 14.3 6.0 Max Scherzer 14.9 5.8 Lucas Giolito 14.8 5.6 Mike Soroka 16.7 5.6 Sonny Gray 16.1 5.6 Patrick Corbin 15.9 5.4 Hyun-jin Ryu 17.0 5.3 Charlie Morton 17.0 5.0 Shane Bieber 18.9 4.9 John Means 8.9 4.6 Luis Castillo 15.9 4.4 Mike Clevinger 14.3 4.2 Marcus Stroman 12.6 4.1 Zach Wheeler 10.6 4.1 Jon Gray 12.1 4.0 Aaron Nola 14.2 3.9 Kyle Hendricks 12.5 3.9 Clayton Kershaw 14.6 3.6 Liam Hendriks 16.6 3.5 Brandon Workman 15.1 3.2 Kirby Yates 13.4 2.8 Felipe Rivero 11.0 2.8 Aaron Bummer 10.1 2.8 Josh Hader 14.9 2.6 Hansel Robles 14.1 2.6 Emilio Pagan 14.6 2.4
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BookmarksYou must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot TopicsReranking First Basemen: Discussion Thread
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1. DL from MN Posted: October 10, 2019 at 11:12 AM (#5888822)1 BREGMAN, ALEX 9746
2 BELLINGER, CODY 9706
3 TROUT, MIKE 9504
4 YELICH, CHRISTIAN 9072
5 SEMIEN, MARCUS 8906
6 RENDON, ANTHONY 7794
7 VERLANDER, JUSTIN 7750
8 BETTS, MOOKIE 7514
9 COLE, GERRIT 7499
10 MARTE, KETEL 7438
11 DEGROM, JACOB 7410
12 LEMAHIEU, DJ 7187
13 SPRINGER, GEORGE 7006
14 ALONSO, PETE 6969
15 CHAPMAN, MATT 6953
16 LYNN, LANCE 6911
17 GREINKE, ZACK 6697
18 ACUNA, RONALD 6559
19 MONCADA, YOAN 6498
20 MINOR, MIKE 6455
21 ALBIES,OZZIE 6270
22 ARENADO, NOLAN 6244
23 BOGAERTS, XANDER 6237
24 DONALDSON, JOSH 6156
25 DEVERS, RAFAEL 6147
26 STRASBURG, STEPHEN 6119
27 SOTO, JUAN 6094
28 BIEBER, SHANE 6009
29 MORTON, CHARLIE 5955
30 MUNCY, MAX 5896
April OPS - 1.052
May OPS - 1.032
June OPS - 1.081
July OPS - 1.214
August OPS - 1.034
September OPS - 1.117
League leads in OBP, slugging, OPS and OPS+, intentional walks (of course), adjusted batting runs & wins, offensive win percentage - plus 85% base stealing just for laughs.
To me this seems like a no-brainer, and a test case for why blind adherence to any given 'uber-stat' is likely to produce nonsensical results. But that's just me - YMM of course V.
Something else the the "uber stats" take into account that the preceding posts haven't is defense:
Bregman 4.8 RS
Bellinger 3.4 RS
Trout -0.3 RS
Trout trails significantly here
1. Alex Bregman, 3B/SS, Houston Astros
2. Mike Trout, CF, Los Angeles Angels: one of the closest finishes, Bregman needs every bit of his games played advantage plus defensive credit for filling in at short to surpass Trout's big lead in OPS+
3. Justin Verlander, P, Houston Astros
4. Gerrit Cole, O, Houston Astros: even closer than Bregman & Trout with Verlander's small IP advantage outweighing Cole's ERA+ lead
5. Marcus Semien, SS, Oakland Athletics
6. Xander Bogaerts, SS, Boston Red Sox: huge defensive disparity as Semien is +5 fielding while Bogaerts is -21
7. Mookie Betts, RF, Boston Red Sox
8. DJ LeMahieu, 2B/3B, New York Yankees
9. Nelson Cruz, DH, Minnesota Twins
10. Jorge Polanco, SS, Minnesota Twins
11. George Springer, CF/RF, Houston Astros
12. Rafael Devers, 3B, Boston Red Sox: with Bogaerts, Betts and Devers, the offense wasn't the problem in Boston
13. Shane Bieber, Cleveland Indians: for all the talk about Lynn, Minor and Morton, Bieber ended the season as the third best pitcher in the AL
14. Carlos Santana, 1B, Cleveland Indians
15. Mike Minor, P, Texas Rangers
1. Cody Bellinger, RF, Los Angeles Dodgers: a clear #1 thanks to +26 fielding
2. Christian Yelich, RF, Milwaukee Brewers: not bad for a follow-up campaign
3. Anthony Rendon, 3B, Washington Nationals
4. Ketel Marte, CF/2B, Arizona Diamondbacks: was not expecting this kind of year from Marte
5. Trevor Story, SS, Colorado Rockies: 118 OPS+ and +17 fielding
6. Jacob deGrom, P, New York Mets: 3rd in ERA+, 2nd in IP
7. Hyun-Jin Ryu, P, Los Angeles Dodgers: led the NL in ERA+ with 179
8. Nolan Arenado, 3B, Colorado Rockies
9. Josh Donaldson, 3B, Atlanta Braves
10. Mike Soroka, P, Atlanta Braves
11. Jack Flaherty, P, St. Louis Cardinals
12. Freddie Freeman, 1B, Atlanta Braves
13. Pete Alonso, 1B, New York Mets
14. Ronald Acuna Jr, CF, Atlanta Braves
15. Juan Soto, LF, Washington Nationals
1. Alex Bregman, 3B, Houston Astros
2. Cody Bellinger, RF, Los Angeles Dodgers
3. Mike Trout, CF, Los Angeles Angels: one of the closest finishes, Bregman needs every bit of his games played advantage plus defensive credit for filling in at short to surpass Trout's big lead in OPS+ while Bellinger's amazing defense pushes him into second
4. Christian Yelich, RF, Milwaukee Brewers: not bad for a follow-up campaign
5. Justin Verlander, P, Houston Astros
6. Gerrit Cole, O, Houston Astros: even closer than Bregman & Trout with Verlander's small IP advantage outweighing Cole's ERA+ lead
7. Marcus Semien, SS, Oakland Athletics
8. Anthony Rendon, 3B, Washington Nationals
9. Ketel Marte, CF/2B, Arizona Diamondbacks: was not expecting this kind of year from Marte
10. Trevor Story, SS, Colorado Rockies: 118 OPS+ and +17 fielding
11. Xander Bogaerts, SS, Boston Red Sox: -21 fielding drops him below Semien and Story
12. Jacob deGrom, P, New York Mets: 3rd in NL ERA+, 2nd in IP
13. Hyun-Jin Ryu, P, Los Angeles Dodgers: led the NL in ERA+ with 179
14. Nolan Arenado, 3B, Colorado Rockies
15. Mookie Betts, RF, Boston Red Sox
16. DJ LeMahieu, 2B/3B, New York Yankees
17. Nelson Cruz, DH, Minnesota Twins
18. Jorge Polanco, SS, Minnesota Twins
19. George Springer, CF/RF, Houston Astros
20. Josh Donaldson, 3B, Atlanta Braves
I agree with this:
"It is certainly not nonsensical to think that Bellinger and Bregman had more merit than Trout in 2019."
And this:
"Staying healthy is a big deal."
And also, curiously, this:
" It is pretty clear that inferior could 'have more merit' simply by playing more games."
This exactly summarizes my opinion on Bellinger and Bregman's candidacies. It's not that they're not worthy, because they are, but rather that they accumulated more value specifically because they played more games. I regard Trout as much the greater player on a per-game basis, and thus, in my view, the MMP.
But this, I cannot agree with:
"Staying healthy is a skill."
To a certain extent, the possibility of injury can be ameliorated through exercise, diet, stretching, etc. (Just ask Ichiro.) But you can't tell Mantle's drain cover, or Oliva's knees, or Koufax's elbow, or Puckett's glaucoma that health is a "skill". It's the same, in my view, wth Trout's foot.
Now, Andruw Jones's weight, sure, that's a legitimate issue - or Mantle's drinking, as opposed to his drain cover - those are related to behavioural choices. Trout's foot is not. I've seen no evidence that Trout is anything less than 100% dedicated to his health and longevity.
None of this means, of course, that Trout is more valuable than Bregman or Bellinger. That part is just my opinion. But I can't countenance the view that Trout somehow lacks a 'skill' because he needed foot surgery.
1) Cody Bellinger - terrific glovework
2) Alex Bregman - filling in at SS helps a lot
3) Mike Trout - best hitter
4) Mike Minor - best regular season pitcher by a small margin
5) Justin Verlander - no postseason credit in the prelim for anyone
6) Jacob deGrom - basically tied with Lynn
7) Lance Lynn
8) Ketel Marte - didn't really follow him all year so this was a surprise for me
9) Christian Yelich
10) Gerrit Cole
11) Trevor Story
12) Matt Chapman
13) Stephen Strasburg - got to see him pitch live in person this year
14) Mookie Betts
15) Anthony Rendon
16-20) George Springer, Josh Donaldson, Jack Flaherty, Eduardo Rodriguez, Max Scherzer
21-25) Zack Greinke, DJ LeMahieu, Mike Soroka, Jorge Polanco, Sonny Gray
post season adjustments have been included
1. Alex Bregman 9.19 WARR
2. Gerrit Cole 7.95 WARR
3. Mike Trout 7.80 WARR
4. Anthony Rendon 7.47 WARR
5. Marcus Semien 7.46 WARR
6. Cody Bellinger 6.98 WARR
7. Zack Greinke 5.06 WARR (NL) + 1.72 WARR (AL) = 6.78 WARR
8. Max Scherzer 6.74 WARR
9. Mookie Betts 6.67 WARR
10. Cristian Yelich 6.42 WARR
11. Justin Verlander 6.20 WARR
12. Nolan Arenado 6.14 WARR
13. Juan Soto 6.14 WARR
14. Stephen Strasburg 6.02 WARR
15. George Springer 5.93 WARR
Rest of the top 25
16. Matt Chapman
17. Jacob deGrom
18. Kolten Wong
19. DJ LeMahieu
20. Lance Lynn
21. Hyun-Jin Ryu
22. Ketel Marte
23. Pete Alonso
24. Jonathon Villar
25. Eugenio Suarez
1) Alex Bregman (8.47)
2) Mike Trout (8.60)
3) Cody Bellinger (8.03)
4) Gerrit Cole (7.58)
5) Justin Verlander (7.93)
6) Stephen Strasburg (6.74)
7) Marcus Semien (7.66)
8) Jacob deGrom (7.61)
9) Christian Yelich (7.39)
10) Anthony Rendon (6.53)
11) Max Scherzer (6.15)
12) Lance Lynn (6.84)
13) Mookie Betts (6.60)
14) Zack Greinke (6.14)
15) George Springer (6.02)
16) Ketel Marte (6.31)
17) Matt Chapman (6.07)
18) Jack Flaherty (6.12)
19) Nolan Arenado (6.13)
20) Charlie Morton (5.94)
21) JT Realmuto (5.12)
22) Mike Minor (6.01)
23) Rafael Devers (5.63)
24) Ronald Acuna (5.66)
25) Pete Alonso (5.81)
26) DJ Lemahieu (5.56)
27) Hyun Jin Ryu (5.56)
28) Trevor Story (5.51)
29) Xander Bogaerts (5.50)
30) Yasmani Grandal (4.57)
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