BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: Most Meritorious Player: 2021 Discussion

Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Thursday, October 07, 2021

Most Meritorious Player: 2021 Discussion

Vote for 15.

Player			bWAR
Carlos Correa		7.2
Marcus Semien		7.1
Juan Soto		7.0
Vladimir Guerrero Jr	6.8
Jose Ramirez		6.7
Fernando Tatis Jr	6.6
Trea Turner		6.5
Tyler O'Neill		6.3
Paul Goldschmidt	6.2
Austin Riley		6.1
Brandon Crawford	6.1
Bo Bichette		6.0
Bryan Reynolds		6.0
Aaron Judge		5.9
Bryce Harper		5.9
Matt Olson		5.8
Kyle Tucker		5.7
Cedric Mullins		5.7
Salvador Perez		5.3
Manny Machado		5.1
Max Muncy		4.9
Shohei Otani		4.9*
Xander Bogaerts		4.9
Enrique Hernandez	4.9
Jake Cronenworth	4.8
Jorge Polanco		4.8
Brandon Lowe		4.8
Starling Marte		4.7
Freddie Freeman		4.7
Joey Gallo		4.6
Tim Anderson		4.6
Javier Baez		4.5
Byron Buxton		4.5
Jose Altuve		4.4
Pete Alonso		4.3
Nicky Lopez		4.2
Ty France		4.2
Trevor Story		4.2
Randy Arozarena		4.2
Willy Adames		4.2
Nolan Arenado		4.2
Mookie Betts		4.2
Willson Contreras	4.1
Yoan Moncada		4.0
Isaiah Kiner-Falefa	4.0
Adam Frazier		4.0
Teoscar Hernandez	4.0

Pitcher 		bWAR
Zack Wheeler		7.6
Walker Buehler		6.7
Robbie Ray		6.7
Max Scherzer		6.0
Wade Miley		5.7
Gerrit Cole		5.6
Ranger Suarez		5.6
Brandon Woodruff	5.6
Corbin Burnes		5.6
Lance Lynn		5.4
Tyler Mahle		5.3
Kevin Gausman		5.2
Carlos Rodon		5.1
Luis Castillo		4.7
Max Fried		4.7
Nathan Eovaldi		4.6
Julio Urias		4.4
Jacob deGrom		4.4
Lucas Giolito		4.2
Charlie Morton		4.2
Sandy Alcantara		4.1
Shohei Otani		4.1*
Anthony DeSclafini	4.1
Chris Bassitt		4.0
Freddy Peralta		3.9
Josh Hader		3.3
Jonathan Loaisiga	3.3
Andrew Chafin		2.9
Scott Barlow		2.9
Garrett Whitlock	2.9
Raisel Iglesias		2.8

DL from MN Posted: October 07, 2021 at 01:23 PM | 43 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. DL from MN Posted: October 07, 2021 at 01:25 PM (#6044489)

Thought I should get this up for prelims before the playoffs

2. Mayor Blomberg Posted: October 07, 2021 at 02:02 PM (#6044499)

Zach Wheeler 7.6

October 31, 2019: Granted Free Agency.

sigh

3. DL from MN Posted: October 07, 2021 at 02:56 PM (#6044516)

2021 Prelim

1) Shohei Otani - combined value puts him comfortably at #1
2) Zach Wheeler - best pitcher
3) Carlos Correa - excellent fielder
4) Marcus Semien
5) Fernando Tatis Jr
6) Robbie Ray
7) Walker Buehler
8) Juan Soto
9) Trea Turner
10) Jose Ramirez - he is an overlooked star
11) Brandon Crawford
12) Vladimir Guerrero Jr
13) Max Scherzer
14) Bo Bichette
15) Tyler O'Neill

16-20) Austin Riley, Bryan Reynolds, Wade Miley, Ranger Suarez, Gerrit Cole

4. kcgard2 Posted: October 08, 2021 at 11:27 AM (#6044757)

prelim

1) Shohei Ohtani - agreed that the combined value is too persuasive
2) Zack Wheeler - Zack with a k :) is the best pitcher this year, agreed
3) Marcus Semien
4) Juan Soto
5) Vlad Guerrero, Jr.
6) Walker Buehler
7) Carlos Correa
8) Max Scherzer
9) Robbie Ray
10) Jose Ramirez
11) Fernando Tatis Jr.
12) Trea Turner
13) Corbin Burnes
14) Bryce Harper
15) Gerrit Cole

16-20) Brandon Crawford, Kevin Gausman, Tyler O'Neill, Bo Bichette, Brandon Woodruff

5. DL from MN Posted: October 08, 2021 at 03:32 PM (#6044847)

Players who won MMP but are not inducted into the Hall of Merit

1939 Bucky Walters
1944 Dizzy Trout
1950 Phil Rizzuto
1953 Al Rosen
1978 Ron Guidry
1979 Fred Lynn
1985 Dwight Gooden
1988 Jose Canseco

2006, 2008, 2009 Albert Pujols
2010 Josh Hamilton
2011 Jose Bautista
2012, 2013, 2014, 2016 Mike Trout
2015 Bryce Harper
2017 Jose Altuve
2018 Mookie Betts
2019 Alex Bregman
2020 Freddie Freeman

6. MrC. Posted: October 08, 2021 at 07:35 PM (#6044903)

My take on the position player All Stars

NL. First team Second team
C Willson Conteras Buster Posey
1B Paul Goldschmidt Max Muncy
2B Jake Cronenworth Ozzie Albies
3B Austin Riley Nolan Arenado
SS Fernando Tatis Jr Trea Turner
OF 1 to 3 in order 4 to 6 in order
Juan Soto Bryan Reynolds
Bryce Harper Mookie Betts
Tyler O'Neill Brandon Nimmo

AL
C Salvador Perez. Mke Zunino
!B Vlad Guerrero Jr Matt Olson
2B Marcus Semien Brandon Lowe
3B Jose Ramirez Jeimer Candelario
SS Carlos Correa Bo Bichette
OF 1 to 3 in order 4 to 6 in order
Aaron Judge Joey Gallo
Cedric Mullins Byron Buxton
Kyle Tucker Enrique Hernandez
DH Shohei Ohtani. Yordan Alvarez

Never have had any luck with formattingon this site

7. MrC. Posted: October 10, 2021 at 06:01 PM (#6045163)

Pitching all stars (5. starters, 1 swingman, 3 relievers

NL
Starters
Zack Wheeler
Walker Buehler
Wade Miley
Max Fried
Luis Castillo

Swingman
Ranger Suarez

Relievers
Josh Hader
Craig Kimbrel (NL only)
Blake Treinen

AL

Starters
Robbie Ray
Gerritt Cole
Nathan Eovaldi
Lance Lynn
Carlos Rondon

Swingman
Cal Quantrill

Relievers
Jonathan Loaisiga
Garrett Whitlock
Liam Hendriks

8. MrC. Posted: October 11, 2021 at 10:39 AM (#6045435)

2021 Prelim ballot

1. Shohei Ohtani 9.92 WARR
2. Juan Soto 8.02 WARR
3. Carlos Correa 7.23 WARR
4. Zack Wheeler 7.11. WARR
5. Vladimir Guerrero Jr 6.67 WARR
6. Bryce Harper 6.64 WARR
7. Paul Goldschmidt 6.51 WARR
8. Fernando Tatis Jr 6.46 WARR
9. Aaron Judge 6.42 WARR
10. Walker Buehler 6.36 WARR
11. Jose Ramirez 6.28 WARR
12. Robbie Ray 6.21 WARR
13. Marcus Semien 5.91 WARR
14. Trea Turner 5.81 WARR
15. Matt Olson 5.81 WARR

Rest of top 20
16. Brandon Lowe
17. Wade Miley
18. Ranger Suarez
19. Austin Riley
20. Gerritt Cole

9. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 11, 2021 at 05:18 PM (#6045538)

DL's list is an interesting one. Walters and Rizzuto are still viable candidates (though league quality is an issue). Dizzy Trout is a wartime artifact. Rosen, Guidry, Lynn, Gooden, and Canseco couldn't stay healthy/ingested funny stuff.

Neither Hamilton (funny stuff) nor Bautista will make the Hall of Merit, though the other post-2010 winners are all on track. And I'm surprised that Bautista won the 2011 award over Justin Verlander, who's a lock for induction.

10. kcgard2 Posted: October 12, 2021 at 01:41 PM (#6045833)

65 players have won an MMP award, of which 56 are eligible for HOM. 48 of the 56 are actually in the HOM. Here's the stat that blows my mind: 47 of the 48 were inducted on the first ballot! The only player in the HOM who has an MMP award and was not voted in first ballot is Rube Waddell.

Also, Ardo says Walters and Rizzuto are still viable candidates. I say Guidry, Lynn, and Gooden are the viable candidates (and possibly Rizzuto). Which just leaves Rosen and Canseco as the only guys who really don't have a case. And Brock still votes for Rosen, at that.

11. DL from MN Posted: October 13, 2021 at 02:58 PM (#6046118)

ALWC BOS 6 NYY 2

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA cWPA
Xander Bogaerts 1 2 2 1 0 0 1 2 2 1 .500 .750 2.000 2.750 0 0 0 0.17 1.95% 
Enrique Hernandez 1 3 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 .333 .500 .333 .833 0 0 0 0.01 0.05%

Joey Gallo* 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .000 .000 .000 .000 0 0 0 -0.09 -1.01%
Aaron Judge 1 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .250 .250 .250 .500 0 0 0 0.00 0.03%

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA cWPA
Nathan Eovaldi 1 1 1.69 1 0 0 0 5.1 4 1 1 0 8 0.750 0.17 1.99%
Garrett Whitlock 1 0 9.00 0 0 0 0 1.0 1 1 1 0 0 1.000 0.01 0.09% 

Gerrit Cole 1 1 13.50 0 1 0 0 2.0 4 3 3 2 3 3.000 -0.22 -2.53%
Jonathan Loaisiga 1 0 18.00 0 0 0 0 1.0 0 2 2 3 2 3.000 0.02 0.23%

12. DL from MN Posted: October 13, 2021 at 03:46 PM (#6046136)

NLWC LAD 1 STL 0

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA cWPA
Mookie Betts 1 4 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 .500 .500 .500 1.000 0 0 0 -0.02 -0.08%
Trea Turner 1 4 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 .500 .500 .500 1.000 0 0 0 -0.13 -1.74%

Nolan Arenado 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 0 0 0 -0.18 -2.28%
Paul Goldschmidt 1 3 0 1 0 0 0 0 2 1 .333 .600 .333 .933 0 0 0 0.02 0.41%
Tyler O'Neill 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 .000 .200 .000 .200 1 0 0 -0.19 -2.41%

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA cWPA 
Max Scherzer 1 1 2.08 0 0 0 0 4.1 3 1 1 3 4 1.385 0.04 0.59%

13. DL from MN Posted: October 13, 2021 at 03:57 PM (#6046137)

ALDS HOU 3 CHW 1

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA cWPA
Jose Altuve 4 16 9 5 2 0 1 3 4 5 .313 .476 .625 1.101 1 0 0 0.23 2.47%
Carlos Correa 4 13 4 5 2 0 0 4 4 2 .385 .529 .538 1.068 0 0 0 0.35 3.89%
Kyle Tucker* 4 17 5 5 1 0 2 7 0 2 .294 .294 .706 1.000 2 0 0 0.38 3.05%

Tim Anderson 4 19 4 7 0 0 0 1 0 5 .368 .368 .368 .737 0 0 1 -0.02 -0.54%
Yoan Moncada# 4 16 2 4 0 0 0 0 1 3 .250 .294 .250 .544 0 0 0 -0.24 -2.16%

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA cWPA
Lucas Giolito 1 1 8.31 0 0 0 0 4.1 3 4 4 5 4 1.846 -0.08 -0.77%
Lance Lynn 1 1 12.27 0 1 0 0 3.2 6 5 5 2 4 2.182 -0.23 -2.04%
Carlos Rodon* 1 1 6.75 0 1 0 0 2.2 3 2 2 2 3 1.875 -0.13 -1.58%

14. DL from MN Posted: October 13, 2021 at 04:03 PM (#6046138)

ALDS BOS 3 TBR 1

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA cWPA
Xander Bogaerts 4 18 3 6 0 0 1 2 1 3 .333 .368 .500 .868 0 0 0 -0.04 -1.02%
Enrique Hernandez 4 20 4 9 3 0 2 6 0 2 .450 .429 .900 1.329 0 0 0 0.26 2.92%

Randy Arozarena 4 15 4 5 1 0 1 3 4 4 .333 .474 .600 1.074 2 0 0 0.49 6.05%
Brandon Lowe* 4 18 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 .000 .000 .000 .000 0 0 1 -0.47 -5.27%

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA cWPA 
Nathan Eovaldi 1 1 3.60 0 0 0 0 5.0 3 2 2 1 8 0.800 0.10 1.14%
Garrett Whitlock 2 0 0.00 1 0 0 0 3.1 0 0 0 1 3 0.300 0.62 7.81%

15. DL from MN Posted: October 13, 2021 at 04:08 PM (#6046141)

NLDS ATL 3 MIL 1

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA cWPA
Freddie Freeman 4 13 2 4 1 0 1 2 4 4 .308 .471 .615 1.086 0 0 0 0.51 5.59%
Austin Riley 4 15 3 5 0 0 1 1 1 4 .333 .375 .533 .908 0 0 0 0.04 0.62%

Willy Adames 4 17 0 5 1 0 0 0 0 9 .294 .294 .353 .647 0 0 0 -0.29 -3.07%

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA cWPA
Max Fried 1 1 0.00 1 0 0 0 6.0 3 0 0 0 9 0.500 0.34 3.42%
Charlie Morton 2 2 3.86 0 1 0 0 9.1 7 4 4 2 14 0.964 0.02 -0.40%

Corbin Burnes 1 1 0.00 0 0 0 0 6.0 2 0 0 3 6 0.833 0.36 3.13%
Josh Hader 2 0 4.50 0 1 1 0 2.0 2 1 1 1 3 1.500 -0.05 -1.22%
Freddy Peralta 1 1 0.00 0 0 0 0 4.0 3 0 0 1 5 1.000 0.22 2.58%
Brandon Woodruff 2 1 3.68 0 1 0 0 7.1 6 3 3 1 8 0.955 0.12 1.47%

16. DL from MN Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:21 PM (#6046657)

NLDS LAD 3 SFG 2

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA cWPA
Mookie Betts 5 20 2 9 0 0 1 4 1 2 .450 .455 .600 1.055 2 0 0 0.25 5.42%
Trea Turner 5 22 1 3 2 0 0 1 0 5 .136 .136 .227 .364 0 0 0 -0.39 -7.25%

Brandon Crawford 5 20 2 5 1 0 1 2 0 4 .250 .250 .450 .700 0 0 1 -0.25 -4.22%

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA cWPA
Walker Buehler 2 2 3.38 0 1 0 0 10.2 9 4 4 3 9 1.125 0.14 1.59% 
Max Scherzer 2 1 1.13 0 1 1 0 8.0 3 1 1 1 12 0.500 0.44 8.25%
Julio Urias 2 1 2.00 1 0 0 0 9.0 6 2 2 1 10 0.778 0.27 3.34%

Anthony DeSclafani 1 1 10.80 0 1 0 0 1.2 5 2 2 0 2 3.000 -0.15 -1.59%
Kevin Gausman 2 1 6.00 0 1 0 0 6.0 4 4 4 3 7 1.167 0.09 2.29%

17. DL from MN Posted: October 26, 2021 at 12:05 PM (#6049122)

ALCS HOU 4 BOS 2

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA cWPA 
Jose Altuve 6 24 6 3 0 0 2 4 3 3 .125 .214 .375 .589 0 0 2 0.33 5.39%
Carlos Correa 6 24 5 6 1 0 1 1 1 7 .250 .308 .417 .724 0 0 0 0.12 0.76%
Kyle Tucker* 6 23 4 6 1 0 2 8 2 7 .261 .320 .565 .885 1 0 0 -0.45 -8.87%

Xander Bogaerts 6 26 2 5 2 0 1 2 2 10 .192 .250 .385 .635 0 0 0 -0.11 -2.09%
Enrique Hernandez 6 26 4 10 1 1 3 3 0 4 .385 .407 .846 1.254 0 0 0 0.04 -0.50%

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA cWPA
Nathan Eovaldi 3 2 6.97 1 2 0 0 10.1 12 8 8 4 9 1.548 -0.19 -4.11% 
Garrett Whitlock 2 0 2.25 0 0 0 0 4.0 3 1 1 1 2 1.000 0.01 0.07%

18. DL from MN Posted: October 26, 2021 at 12:18 PM (#6049127)

NLCS ATL 4 LAD 2

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA cWPA
Freddie Freeman 6 21 4 6 1 0 2 4 6 8 .286 .444 .619 1.063 1 0 0 -0.05 -1.24%
Austin Riley 6 25 3 5 2 0 1 4 2 10 .200 .259 .400 .659 0 0 0 0.65 10.61%

Mookie Betts 6 23 4 4 1 0 0 1 4 3 .174 .296 .217 .514 4 0 1 -0.09 -3.35%
Trea Turner 6 25 2 6 0 0 0 1 1 7 .240 .296 .240 .536 1 0 0 -0.34 -5.47%

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA cWPA
Max Fried 2 2 5.91 0 1 0 0 10.2 16 7 7 2 8 1.688 -0.09 -0.59%
Charlie Morton 1 1 3.60 0 0 0 0 5.0 3 2 2 6 5 1.800 0.04 0.61%

Walker Buehler 2 2 7.04 0 1 0 0 7.2 13 8 6 6 9 2.478 -0.55 -9.02%
Max Scherzer 1 1 4.15 0 0 0 0 4.1 4 2 2 1 7 1.154 -0.02 -0.28%
Julio Urias* 2 1 10.50 0 1 0 0 6.0 11 7 7 2 5 2.167 -0.57 -10.40%

19. DL from MN Posted: October 26, 2021 at 01:49 PM (#6049154)

I'm surprised that Bautista won the 2011 award over Justin Verlander

Runners-up in the other years

1939 Joe DiMaggio
1944 Stan Musial
1950 Yogi Berra
1953 Robin Roberts
1978 Jim Rice (you have to go to 4th place with Niekro to find a HoM player, only 5 of the top 15 are HoM)
1979 Darrell Porter (George Brett #3)
1985 Rickey Henderson
1988 Wade Boggs
2010 Robinson Cano
2011 Matt Kemp (5th place Roy Halladay, only 6 of top 18 are likely HoM)

So it's a competition between 1978 and 2011 for the worst seasons for baseball stars

20. DL from MN Posted: October 31, 2021 at 03:53 PM (#6050376)

When should we run this election (how much time do you need to put together a final ballot)? I don't think this Wednesday makes sense, the World Series might still be happening. Should we vote on the 10th or wait until 12/1?

21. DL from MN Posted: October 31, 2021 at 03:54 PM (#6050377)

BTW - I will make mock-HoF elections when the veteran's committee ballots come out after the World Series.

22. DL from MN Posted: November 02, 2021 at 11:43 AM (#6050694)

I think I'll set the election to end on the 17th - give everyone 2 weeks to figure the postseason into their ballot.

23. lieiam Posted: November 02, 2021 at 10:51 PM (#6050879)

Does anyone know if Win Shares totals are still readily available? In the past I'd mix up results from various "uber stat" systems to come up with rankings but with the baseball gauge gone I've lost my access to Win Shares info...

24. DL from MN Posted: November 03, 2021 at 09:35 AM (#6050941)

World Series ATL 4 HOU 2

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS E WPA cWPA
Freddie Freeman 6 22 2 7 1 0 2 5 2 5 .318 .360 .636 .996 0 0 0 0.04 1.35%
Austin Riley 6 25 1 8 3 0 0 3 0 11 .320 .320 .440 .760 0 0 0 0.28 9.80%

Jose Altuve 6 27 6 6 1 0 2 2 1 9 .222 .250 .481 .731 1 0 0 -0.15 -4.62%
Carlos Correa 6 23 1 6 1 0 0 4 1 4 .261 .320 .304 .624 0 0 0 0.00 -1.04%
Kyle Tucker 6 21 4 6 2 0 0 0 3 3 .286 .375 .381 .756 2 0 0 -0.22 -8.83%

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA cWPA
Max Fried 2 2 4.91 1 1 0 0 11.0 11 6 6 1 12 1.091 -0.09 3.54%
Charlie Morton 1 1 0.00 0 0 0 0 2.1 1 0 0 2 3 1.286 0.11 3.81%

25. DL from MN Posted: November 03, 2021 at 09:39 AM (#6050942)

Austin Riley is my player most helped by the postseason

26. DanG Posted: November 04, 2021 at 03:38 PM (#6051289)

Does anyone know if Win Shares totals are still readily available?

I believe the annual Bill James Handbook lists WS for all active players. Due out this week.

27. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: November 05, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6051458)

Should have posted this here first for perusal, since i'm not a regular HoM voter:
1) Shohei Ohtani - Had a season that we could have only dreamed of when he first came over from Japan. Hit 46 dingers, had a 3.18 ERA, with a 100 mph fastball and a 119 mph exit velocity. Could have been an all star as a hitter or a pitcher.
2) Juan Soto - I can't look past the .465 OBP. Mike Trout better be looking over his shoulder. This young dude is outstanding.
3) Zack Wheeler - The best pitcher in either league for the full course of the season, and actually pitched over 200 innings.
4) Vladito - Even using old timey numbers the quality of his season is obvious. 48 HR, 111 RBI, .293 Avg is MVP candidate quality in any season.
5) Trea Turner - I cannot believe the Nats traded him away midseason. He's not the best defensive shortstop in baseball, but this is a better year than anyone else had and he did it despite being shunted to a position he hadn't played since 2016.
6) Marcus Semien - Did you know that Davey Johnson once hit 43 dingers in a single season? One of the things I learned when looking up where Semien's 45 ranked for all time 2B seasons, he took Davey's record.
7) Corbin Burnes - Fangraphs WAR has him a tick over Wheeler, and a 1.63 FIP is extremely cool and good. I just can't see only pitching 167 innings as being enough to get him above Wheeler or the hitters above him.
8) Jose Ramirez - I wonder who he'll be traded for since he only has one year left on his contract?
9) Bryce Harper - Oh, there's the player who we all thought was going to be battling Mike Trout into the history books. And he's still only 28!
10) Fernando Tatis, Jr. - I thought I'd be ranking him a lot higher early in the season, but he faded in the second half... if a .875 OPS at shortstop can really be called fading.
11) Walker Buehler - He pitched very well, with a 165 ERA+, and pitched over 200 innings. That's impressive this season.
12) Brian Reynolds - Where did this guy come from?
13) Robbie Ray - The best pitcher in the AL this past season, although that's not saying that much.
14) Carlos Correa - I'm sorry, I'm just not buying that Correa was worth 3 wins on defense this past year.
15) Jacob deGrom - You might think that this is just a homer vote, but he's ranked 17th on the combined fWAR chart. So it's a homer vote, but a defensible one!

28. DL from MN Posted: November 05, 2021 at 04:33 PM (#6051460)

Nice ballot Scott. Glad to see people joining us.

29. lieiam Posted: November 16, 2021 at 11:32 PM (#6053257)

I was hoping to get a ballot created but
1- I don't have enough numbers I want to create a ballot
2- Without those numbers I didn't pay enough attention to baseball this year to feel comfortable creating a ballot

30. DL from MN Posted: November 17, 2021 at 09:59 AM (#6053273)

Is the problem that the numbers aren't available yet or that they won't ever be available? I can extend the election. I'd like to get more than 4 ballots.

31. lieiam Posted: November 17, 2021 at 09:01 PM (#6053379)

I'm sure there are more numbers available I just don't have access to them. (Such as DanG. mentioned above about the possibility of getting Win Shares from Bill James' annual handbook... but I don't plan on buying it). I'd love to see more ballots but I don't think I'll be able to provide one.

32. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 28, 2021 at 09:23 AM (#6054976)

Does anyone know if Win Shares totals are still readily available?

lieiam, I don’t know if this helps but I found this link to Win Shares on the Hey Bill part of the Bill James Online site. It has the Win Shares leaderboard for each year & under batting and pitching profiles you can search players yearly Win Shares

http://bjprofiles.bisdata.com/StatisticsReport_new.aspx?Type=507&League=1

33. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2021 at 10:12 AM (#6054979)

AL Win Shares Leaders

Player Name Team B F P Tot
Shohei Ohtani* LAA 25.9 0.0 11.8 38
Aaron Judge NYA 26.8 3.8 0.0 31
Brandon Lowe* TB 25.2 4.7 0.0 30
Jorge Polanco* MIN 24.2 4.4 0.0 29
Jose Ramirez CLE 25.3 3.3 0.0 29
Salvador Perez KC 18.3 9.6 0.0 28
Ty France* SEA 24.7 3.2 0.0 28
Vladimir Guerrero Jr.* TOR 26.0 2.1 0.0 28
Mitch Haniger SEA 24.6 2.5 0.0 27
Matt Olson OAK 22.8 3.3 0.0 26
J.P. Crawford SEA 17.3 9.1 0.0 26
Jose Altuve HOU 19.8 4.9 0.0 25
Kyle Seager SEA 19.1 5.6 0.0 25
Xander Bogaerts BOS 17.1 8.2 0.0 25
Rafael Devers* BOS 19.7 4.9 0.0 25
Marcus Semien* TOR 18.0 5.9 0.0 24
Bo Bichette TOR 19.2 4.7 0.0 24
Carlos Correa HOU 16.3 6.4 0.0 23
Tim Anderson CHA 14.8 8.6 0.0 23
Robbie Grossman DET 19.9 2.4 0.0 22

34. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2021 at 10:13 AM (#6054980)

NL Win Shares Leaders

Player Name Team B F P Tot
Brandon Crawford SF 22.9 7.6 0.0 31
Bryce Harper* PHI 28.8 2.0 0.0 31
Juan Soto WAS 28.9 2.0 0.0 31
Paul Goldschmidt STL 25.3 2.1 0.0 28
Fernando Tatis Jr.* SD 24.7 3.8 0.0 28
Bryan Reynolds PIT 24.3 3.5 0.0 28
Freddie Freeman ATL 22.8 3.9 0.0 27
Max Muncy* LAN 23.1 3.7 0.0 27
Manny Machado SD 22.4 4.6 0.0 27
Trea Turner* 2TMS 22.0 3.9 0.0 26
Ozzie Albies ATL 17.5 7.4 0.0 25
Nolan Arenado STL 19.9 3.2 0.0 23
Austin Riley* ATL 19.8 3.7 0.0 23
J.T. Realmuto* PHI 15.7 5.9 0.0 22
Jake Cronenworth* SD 15.9 6.0 0.1 22
Tyler O'Neill STL 19.5 2.0 0.0 22
Willy Adames 2TMS 15.4 6.7 0.0 22
Jonathan India CIN 16.2 5.4 0.0 22
Justin Turner* LAN 16.8 3.9 0.1 21
Joey Votto CIN 18.7 2.2 0.0 21

35. kcgard2 Posted: November 28, 2021 at 10:50 AM (#6054984)

Well, Win Shares still doing its Win Shares thing, not a single pitcher in the top 40 MLB players. Wheeler, Buehler, Scherzer, Ray - not as valuable as Robbie Grossman, Whit Merrifield, or Jean Segura for example.

36. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2021 at 10:57 AM (#6054987)

Well, Win Shares still doing its Win Shares thing, not a single pitcher in the top 40 MLB players. Wheeler, Buehler, Scherzer, Ray - not as valuable as Robbie Grossman, Whit Merrifield, or Jean Segura for example.

You mean you don't think a GM in MLB would trade away Max Scherzer to get Robbie Grossman? As a Twins fan I'm sure they could get two ace pitchers for Jorge Polanco, right?

37. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2021 at 01:39 PM (#6054994)

Win Shares pitcher leaderboards

AL
Robbie Ray 17.4
Liam Hendriks 16.5
Gerrit Cole 15.9
Emmanuel Clase 15.4
Raisel Iglesias 14.8

NL
Zack Wheeler 19.2
Walker Buehler 17.9
Adam Wainwright 15.9
Corbin Burnes 15.9
Kevin Gausman 15.8

These pitchers have received MMP votes but aren't on the leaderboard. Someone else would have to look up individually.

Max Scherzer
Ranger Suarez
Wade Miley
Jacob deGrom

38. lieiam Posted: November 29, 2021 at 12:03 AM (#6055096)

Thanks to Tubbs and DL for the Win Shares info. I hope to get more numbers (beyond the leader board provided)and combine with the WAR numbers I have to get a ranking. So far the URL is erroring out on me. Not sure if the website is having issues or if my slow internet is not sufficient to the task...

39. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 29, 2021 at 08:07 AM (#6055115)

lieiam, the URL is slow for me but does come up. If you give me a list of players, I can look up their 2021 Win Shares for you and post them here

40. lieiam Posted: November 29, 2021 at 11:22 AM (#6055143)

Tubbs- Thanks much for your offer but no need... this morning the error message didn't appear and I was able to get to the site and the Win Shares lists. Oddly the search feature (typing in a name) only led to failed searches but going through the listed names worked... albeit slowly. Anyway, I got the numbers I needed for Win Shares and now just need to dig around for some more WAR numbers (based on players added to my consideration set due to high Win Shares) and I should be able to create a ballot.

41. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 29, 2021 at 12:22 PM (#6055153)

Sounds good. I look forward to seeing your ballot, lieiam

42. kcgard2 Posted: November 29, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6055191)

Emmanuel Clase 4th among all AL pitchers! Liam Hendriks 2nd. These are such funny results. 3 of the top 5 AL pitchers threw 70 innings. I can't help it, I mean to lay off Win Shares, but I just can't.

43. lieiam Posted: November 29, 2021 at 11:03 PM (#6055280)

I have to agree those WS pitcher rankings seem... very strange to me.
That being said I've still gone through with my somewhat improvised numbers blender and came up with the following ballot.
I plan on posting it to the ballot page in a day or two.

1 OHTANI, SHOHEI 10000
2 SOTO, JUAN 8028
3 GUERRERO, VLADIMIR 7732
4 HARPER, BRYCE 7621
5 RAMIREZ, JOSE 7618
6 TURNER, TREA 7528
7 WHEELER, ZACK 7527
8 SEMIEN, MARCUS 7451
9 TATIS, FERNANDO 7411
10 CRAWFORD, BRANDON 7242
11 JUDGE, AARON 7168
12 CORREA, CARLOS 7071
13 REYNOLDS, BRYAN 6942
14 GOLDSCHMIDT, PAUL 6769
15 BURNES, CORBIN 6605

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