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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Wednesday, April 13, 2005Negro League Win Share EstimatesThis falls into the category of asking someone else to do something I’m too lazy to do . . . Does anyone have a listing of the WS estimates for all of the Negro League players? I’d love to try to slot them onto the pennants added spreadsheet as best I can, at least including their estimated career WS . . . Also, have the estimates been based on a 154 or 162 game season? Any help would be appreciated. A typical posting that looked something like this: Biz Mackey, 154-game base Year BWS FWS Total 1920 14.0 4.1 18.1 1921 12.4 5.1 17.5 1922 19.6 3.8 23.4 1923 18.9 6.8 25.7 1924 12.9 6.5 19.4 1925 10.6 6.1 16.7 1926 11.6 8.1 19.7 1927 9.8 8.2 18.0 1928 11.7 7.5 19.2 1929 6.1 8.8 14.9 1930 11.0 7.7 18.7 1931 10.6 6.5 17.1 1932 1933 4.6 5.6 10.2 1934 2.5 2.4 4.9 1935 0.0 4.6 4.6 1936 0.4 5.0 5.4 1937 1.8 4.0 5.8 1938 1.2 3.1 4.3 1939 2.9 3.7 6.6 1940 1.5 2.3 3.8 1941 1.4 2.4 3.8 tot 165.5 112.3 277.8 Would be phenomenal. If we could gather as many of these in one place as possible for easy reference, that’d be great. Chris (and others), if you’d like to post your estimates here, that’d be great. Basically it’d also be good to keep this thread fairly uncluttered with comments if possible too. Keeping it under 100 posts would be great for searching purposes. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head
Posted: April 13, 2005 at 09:18 AM | 15 comment(s)
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1. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: April 13, 2005 at 09:21 AM (#1252483)Or as an alternative to AB+BB, full games would work, if that's something that you have that's easier to do than AB+BB. Bacially for Pennants Added, I use AB+BB divided by league AB+BB divided by 9 to determine full-time games for purposes of subtracting out a replacement level.
[u]Biz Mackey[/u]
[b]ab+bb bWS fWS tWS ops+[/b]
1920 503 14 4.1 18.1 122
1921 553 12.4 5.1 17.5 108
1922 590 19.6 3.8 23.4 131
1923 547 18.9 6.8 25.7 142
1924 536 12.9 6.5 19.4 110
1925 427 10.6 6.1 16.7 111
1926 515 11.6 8.1 19.7 109
1927 427 9.8 8.2 18 101
1928 464 11.7 7.5 19.2 104
1929 487 6.1 8.8 14.9 82
1930 475 11 7.7 18.7 107
1931 421 10.6 6.5 17.1 110
1932
1933 337 4.6 5.6 10.2 89
1934 206 2.5 2.4 4.9 85
1935 326 0 4.6 4.6 49
1936 363 0.4 5 5.4 56
1937 302 1.8 4 5.8 63
1938 229 1.2 3.1 4.3 56
1939 284 2.9 3.7 6.6 68
1940 186 1.5 2.3 3.8 65
1941 174 1.4 2.4 3.8 70
[i]tot: 8352 165.5 112.3 277.8 98[/i]
[u]Mule Suttles[/u]
[b]ab+bb bWS fWS tWS ops+[/b]
1923 315 6.3 1.7 8 71
1924 647 10.4 3.5 13.9 101
1925 647 25.7 2.7 28.4 152
1926 647 41.6 2.5 44.1 219
1927 215 11.5 0.8 12.3 186
1928 504 19.3 1.7 21 142
1929 609 16.7 2.2 18.9 125
1930 630 28.5 2.4 30.9 153
1931 622 18.8 2.8 21.6 136
1932 588 16.6 2 18.6 137
1933 609 21 2.2 23.2 140
1934 588 12.3 2.3 14.6 125
1935 647 19.3 2.2 21.5 133
1936 609 15 1.9 16.9 155
1937 588 23.2 2.1 25.3 158
1938 588 10.5 1.9 12.4 127
1939 546 13 1.7 14.7 111
1940 420 4.5 1.6 6.1 92
1941 147 0 0.5 0.5 27
[i]tot: 10166 314.2 38.7 352.9 137[/i]
[u]Jud Wilson[/u]
[b]ab+bb bWS fWS tWS ops+[/b]
1922 420 14.3 1.7 16 126
1923 647 19.9 2.8 22.7 138
1924 609 18.2 2.3 20.5 129
1925 647 24.5 3.6 28.1 149
1926 559 21.6 3.4 25 148
1927 638 30.2 4 34.2 172
1928 504 24 3.7 27.7 176
1929 630 21.8 2.9 24.7 145
1930 647 19.4 5.2 24.6 118
1931 638 23.7 4.9 28.6 134
1932 617 18 4.8 22.8 119
1933 647 26.2 4.7 30.9 140
1934 647 15.9 4.6 20.5 120
1935 647 15.4 3 18.4 113
1936 634 15 2.4 17.4 114
1937 285 8.8 1.5 10.3 122
1938 462 3.2 2.3 5.5 64
[i]tot: 9878 320.1 57.8 377.9 132[/i]
[u]John Beckwith[/u]
[b]ab+bb bWS fWS tWS ops+[/b]
1919 72 0.3 0.4 0.7 91
1920 533 13.6 4.3 17.9 94
1921 638 19 5 24 138
1922 550 15.8 4.1 19.9 126
1923 606 23.4 4.3 27.7 147
1924 621 26.1 4.7 30.8 155
1925 586 24.2 4.4 28.6 157
1926 491 20 3.2 23.2 149
1927 636 22 4.1 26.1 133
1928 567 19.3 4 23.3 127
1929 615 18.5 4 22.5 135
1930 421 15.1 2.6 17.7 144
1931 624 21.5 3 24.5 161
1932 421 13 1.9 14.9 156
1933 400 10.8 1.3 12.1 148
1934 227 0.4 0.8 1.2 39
1935 12 0 0 0 -16
[i]tot: 8010 263 52.1 315.1 137[/i]
[u]Cool Papa Bell[/u]
ab+bb bWS fWS tWS ops+
1924 580 7.2 5.5 12.7 77
1925 645 13.5 7.8 21.3 96
1926 684 16.4 8.2 24.6 107
1927 693 8.9 6.5 15.4 75
1928 693 9.2 7 16.2 79
1929 693 6.7 7 13.7 70
1930 666 12.4 4.5 16.9 92
1931 626 15.4 5.7 21.1 97
1932 609 21.2 5.3 26.5 124
1933 647 17.2 6.7 23.9 114
1934 634 16.5 6 22.5 112
1935 647 17.1 4.3 21.4 105
1936 630 12.8 4.8 17.6 100
[i]1937 12.5 4.2 16.7
1938 17 4.2 21.2
1939 13 4.2 17.2
1940 20.5 4.2 24.7
1941 8 4.2 12.2[/i]
1942 588 21.5 3.7 25.2 137
1943 480 16.7 2.3 19 137
1944 472 13 2 15 113
1945 323 3.5 1.3 4.8 79
1946 283 7.8 1.1 8.9 118
[i]tot: 10593 308 110.7 418.7 100
13637[/i]
This is the info I've collected from the Negro League threads so far. Suttles' and Beckwith's Win Shares totals have yet to be adjusted for 1930s AL/NL offense.
Considering Bell's offensive performance from 1927 - 31, he probably wouldn't receive so many PAs. With the suggested 10% discount his career totals are
12273 277.2 99.6 376.8 100
When I have time I plan on collecting the rest of the data for the other Negro Leaguers, and if someone hasn't posted them I'll add'em.
I've seen some hitting and pitching stats, but that's it. I think it was in Total Baseball.
They're estimated, ARoM. IOW, Mackey had a great rep as a fielding catcher, so Chris Cobb estimated what a A+ fielding catcher would have done in the projected games Chris has for the Biz.
Chris tries to handle it conservatively, since you can't always rely on the anecdotal evidence for understanding a Negro League player's defensive quality.
Cool Papa Bell's playing time totals should be decreased 10% from the estimates Tiboreau posted. Discussion and analysis of Bell's record after the OPS+ totals were arrived at made it clear that, given his level of offense, his overall playing time totals were unreasonably high. At least, that was my conclusion.
It's done.
*Also played for Detroit and Homestead
#Also played briefly fore the NY Black Yankees
^Also played for Newark
$Also played for Baltimore
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