|
|
Hall of Merit— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
Friday, February 18, 2005
|
Support BBTF
Thanks to Chicago Joe for his generous support.
Bookmarks
You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.
Hot Topics
Most Meritorious Player: 1936 Discussion (17 - 10:58am, Mar 04)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1935 Results (3 - 7:30pm, Mar 03)Last: QufiniMost Meritorious Player: 1935 Ballot (11 - 4:04pm, Mar 03)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1935 Discussion (37 - 1:42pm, Mar 03)Last: John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy2022 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (145 - 8:27pm, Feb 16)Last:  Dr. ChaleekoMark Teixeira, Justin Morneau and Prince Fielder (6 - 9:15pm, Feb 15)Last: puckNewt Allen (20 - 12:26pm, Feb 04)Last: Carl GoetzMost Meritorious Player: 1934 Discussion (18 - 11:51am, Feb 04)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1934 Results (1 - 6:14pm, Feb 03)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1934 Ballot (10 - 4:59pm, Feb 03)Last: DL from MNJimmy Rollins (11 - 2:32pm, Jan 29)Last: Carl GoetzDavid Ortiz (53 - 11:37pm, Jan 28)Last: SoSH U at work2021 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (651 - 1:45pm, Jan 25)Last:  Bleed the FreakJason Giambi (5 - 11:17pm, Jan 22)Last: The Honorable ArdoHank Aaron (178 - 5:04pm, Jan 22)Last:  Bourbon Samurai stays in the fight
|
|
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 18, 2005 at 02:13 AM (#1151546)Newt Allen Data
Teams: 22-44 KC Monarchs, Stl 31, Det 32, Homestead 32
Seasonal Data from Holway
1923 no data
1924 .277 for KC; 2b
11-39 in World Series vs. Hilldale
1925 .307 for KC; 10 3b (4th), 16 sb (3rd); 2b; all-star
11-27 in playoff vs. Stl.
7-27 in World Series vs. Hilldale
1926 .232 for KC Monarchs; 2b
5-28 in playoff vs. Chi Am
1927 .330 for KC Monarchs; 2b, all-star
1928 .280 for KC Monarchs; 12 sb (3rd); 2b
1929 .284 for KC Monarchs; 24 2b (3rd), 23 sb (3rd); 2b, all-star
1930 .333 for KC Monarchs; 2b, all-star
1931 .300 for KC Monarchs; ss
12-33 in World Series vs. Grays
1932 .268 for Homestead; 7 sb (3rd); 2b
.364 for KC Monarchs; 2b, all-star
2-2 vs. Major-league competition
1933 No Data (Monarchs barnstorming)
1934 No Data (Monarchs barnstorming); ss
1935 No Data (Monarchs barnstorming); 2b
4-12 vs. major-league pitching (backed by semipro teams)
1936 .385 for KC Monarchs; 2b, all-star
1937 .389 for KC Monarchs; ba 2nd, 6 2b (4th), 7 sb (3rd); 2b, all-star
5-21 in playoff vs. Chi Am Giants
3-11 in World Series vs. Homestead
7-15 vs. major-league competition
47-175 in Cuban Play
1938 .267 for KC Monarchs; 2b
1939 .265 for KC Monarchs; 2b
1940 .323 for KC Monarchs; ba 5th, 4 2b (2nd); lf
1941 .245 for KC Monarchs; ss and manager
1942 .318 for KC Monarchs; rf
4-15 in World Series vs. Homestead
1943 no data
1944 .247 for KC Monarchs; lf
Career
.300 mean avg. for 17 seasons with batting statistics
Black Ink/Gray Ink from Holway
0/25
Career Data from MacMillan 8th
792 g, 3250 ab, 961 hits, 135 2b, 42 3b, 20 hr, .296 ba, .382 sa.
Career Fielding Summary from Holway
2b 24, 26-30, 32, 35-39
3b 25
ss 31, 34, 41
lf 40, 44
rf 42
Brief analysis: Probably didn't hit enough to be a strong HoM candidate, but he's missing almost all of 4 years out of the middle of his career when the Monarchs were barnstorming rather than playing in a league, so that may underrate him a bit. We also don't have much analysis of offensive conditions in the NeL in the 1930s (we need as much of that as we can get!), so the numbers we have might not be telling the whole story. But clearly he's not anywhere near Stearnes and Suttles as hitters, nor was he ever one of the top hitters in the NeL. But his reputation was as an outstanding defensive player.
NNL Kansas City Monarchs
Batting
G-72 (team 74)
AB-286
H-78
D-13
T-4
HR-1
R-40
W-21
HP-2
SH-10
SB-18 (4th in league)
AVE-.273 (NNL .278)
OBA-.327 (NNL .333)
SLG-.357 (NNL .384)
KC's Muehlebach Park seemed to be more or less neutral that year.
Fielding (shortstop)
G-72
DI-632.2
PO-184
A-260
E-28
DP-34
RF-6.32 (NNL ss 5.59)
FPCT-.941 (NNL ss .922)
KC shortstops (all but 2 games Allen) accounted for 32.8% of KC assists (not counting catchers and OF); the NNL average was 30.1%.
Note that Allen played only shortstop in 1928 (not 2b, Holway has it). Also, Macmillan 8 has Allen at 2b in 1925 and ss in 1927.
The Monarchs also turned a lot of double plays (52 recorded, third in the league behind St. Louis at 55 and Memphis at 53), despite allowing fewer baserunners than any other team--their opponents' OBA was .295, best in the league (Chicago's .309 was second).
Is he Rabbit Maranville?
DeMoss has long since dropped out of my consideration set. I don't think he's top 100 among today's eligibles. Allen I don't think matches up to Bill Monroe, but I think he's top 100 today at least.
Another point is that the bulk of stats we have for DeMoss are from the league period, 1920 and after; I think Gadfly says over on the Beckwith thread that DeMoss was born in 1885, making him 35 at the start of the most well-documented part of his career. That might also help to explain his anemic offensive numbers.
You might also want to check out a few other recent comments on DeMoss on the Beckwith thread.
G-23
AB-68
H-20
2B-0
3B-4 (!)
HR-0
Sac-7
Ave- .294 (team ave .291)
Slg - .412 (team slg .373)
At a minimum, a longer career Dick Lundy?
I'm not an expert, but I've learned enough from gadfly's posts on the MLE subject to suggest that we need to be wary in assessing Allen's 36-37 seasons because of the issue of league environment and league quality. gadfly's analysis of the 1940s game strongly suggests that the Negro American League, the new western league that formed in 1937 was a higher-offense, lower-quality league with more young players and fewer established stars than the eastern Negro National League. I'm sure batting and slugging averages from this environment should not be viewed in quite the same way as averages from the 1920s, when there were two strong leagues or the one-league environment of the early 1930s.
Allen definitely had a longer career than Lundy, and the snapshot of fielding data we have is truly impressive. But Lundy, at least for the first half of his career was a strong hitter who placed occasionally among the league leaders in batting average and in power categories. We have no strong evidence that Allen could match that level of hitting.
gadfly, Gary A., and other experts can give firmer judgments.
Just to let the group know, I'm working on improving the engine behind the batting translations, switching to wOBA rather than a less flexible runs-created-based rate stat. This switch further aligns my calculations with BBREF's and brings the offensive side to the state of the art. I'm also making my fielding a little less vulnerable to small sample size fluctuations.
This change is especially important for someone like Williams. Previously, my calculations had him with better batting performance, but the wOBA-based calculations ratchet down his offense a bit because wOBA is more sensitive to extreme leagues than RC is, and Williams played in a variety of offensive contexts. My long love affair with Marv is probably over.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main