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Hall of Merit— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
Monday, April 23, 2007
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2023 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (168 - 1:46pm, Jul 13)Last:  DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: Trophy Case (71 - 6:53pm, Jul 08)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1900 Results (6 - 6:28pm, Jul 08)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1900 Ballot (11 - 4:03pm, Jul 06)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1918 Results (6 - 8:58pm, Jun 29)Last: kennaMost Meritorious Player: 1920 Ballot (25 - 8:55pm, Jun 29)Last: kennaMost Meritorious Player: 1900 Discussion (9 - 1:14am, Jun 29)Last: Harmon RipkowskiHall of Merit Book Club (6 - 12:45pm, Jun 28)Last: progrockfanMost Meritorious Player: 1899 Results (6 - 1:51pm, Jun 22)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1899 Ballot (10 - 9:54am, Jun 22)Last: TomHMost Meritorious Player: 1899 Discussion (9 - 9:04am, May 31)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1898 Results (4 - 3:22pm, May 06)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1898 Ballot (8 - 10:07am, May 05)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1898 Discussion (7 - 1:08am, May 02)Last: Harmon RipkowskiMost Meritorious Player: 1897 Results (2 - 4:29pm, Apr 06)Last: DL from MN
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 23, 2007 at 12:21 AM (#2342502)Yes, Pete, you ####### could.
In 1980, 12 games as a second baseman. That must've been a disaster.
Yowza.
Best top 10 ranks in adj OPS+ - 1 2 2 6 6 7
4 times in the top 4 in MVP voting
Maybe Hall of Fame path at age 32
137 OPS+ in 6115 AB
I'm not the type of voter that favors this career, but he's worth a look - especially by peak voters.
Unless, of course, all that happened in between Guerrero's nonexistent back-to-back All-Star games, making me equally bewildered. Perhaps Guerrero, like The Shadow, possessed the power to cloud men's minds.
No, because Browning was much more durable for his era and dominated his positions to a greater degree.
Guerrero also missed significant time in all but 4 seasons (1982, 83, 87, 89). I believe that most managers give the odd day off to nearly everyone these days, so I don't hold modern guys up to the standards employed by century old managers.
Pedro was taking ground balls at 3B when Tommy came over to encourage his struggling slugger. "Pedro, what do you think about when the ball is hit?" asked Tommy. Answered Guerrero, "First I think, `I hope they don't hit it to me." "Aw, c'mon," said Tommy, "What are you really thinking?"
Replied Guerrero, "I think `I hope they don't hit to Sax."
Yup. His lawyer got him off! Your lawyer convincing the judge that you have an IQ of 70 is a pretty humiliating way to get acquitted.
absolutely. chipper's in. the 1500 PAs and with 6 points more OPS+, that's good stuff. Oh and a tougher position that he played a lot more often.
Pedro was better, but not by much 270 more PAs, 137 OPS+ to 133...
I think even a better question is will they be voting for Daryl Strawberry, since the Strawman was a better player than Guerrero?
If Guerrero, why not Dave Parker? At least if you're a WS voter...
Parker would seem to have a slight peak advantage, a slight prime advantage, and slight career advantage. While Guerrero's time, however execrable, at 3B would make that (and perhaps a bit more) up, I can't see how it would put Guerrero on ballot unless Parker is at least pretty close. (Maybe he is, for you?)
I don't think either was a HoMer. Browning's WARP2 EQA was .313, Guerrero's was .309. Using the neutralized stats on baseball-reference.com for playing time only, Browning ends up with 6538 AB+BB, Guerrero with 6001. Both were butchers - but I think I'd give Guerrero the slight edge with the glove - CF was not an important position in Browning's day. I think Guerrero also peaks out a little higher too.
It's very close. Neither should be going in - but if don't think you'll vote for Guerrero, I don't see how you can justify a vote for Browning. Either Browning should drop, or Guerrero should do well, if we are going to be consistent.
Except Browning was a more dominating player and better hitter (taking into account both players' competition), plus it was easier to ring up games played in Guerrero's era than it was in his.
Definitely. He'd still be below this year's top newbies, but in a worst-case scenario, he's Bus Clarkson (#3 in my prelim).
I also don't think Browning was a more dominating player - Guerrero was arguably the best hitter in baseball during the early-mid 1980s. You can't ever say that about Browning (once you adjust for the fact that the AA was a much weaker league).
Hard to say that with Schmidt winning OPS+ titles in 80,81,82,83,84,86 with durability (and a 5th place in 85). Guerrero is on the short list though.
On the topic of Browning, it may be 100 years late, but has anyone ever calculated "NLE's" for noted AA stars?
Eddie Murray was better, too.
I personally don't think it's really arguable, Joe. Yes, there were some notable outliers from the 19th century who played forever, but on balance, players didn't last as long as they did 20 years or today.
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