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Friday, July 07, 2023

Reranking First Basemen: Ballot

Rank the following 25 first basemen

Dick Allen
Cap Anson
Jeff Bagwell
Jake Beckley
Dan Brouthers
Will Clark
Roger Connor
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Hank Greenberg
Todd Helton
Keith Hernandez
Harmon Killebrew
Buck Leonard
Willie McCovey
Mark McGwire
Johnny Mize
Eddie Murray
Rafael Palmeiro
George Sisler
Joe Start
Mule Suttles
Bill Terry
Frank Thomas
Jim Thome

DL from MN Posted: July 07, 2023 at 01:05 PM | 18 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: July 07, 2023 at 01:18 PM (#6136274)
1) Lou Gehrig - Pujols isn't eligible yet so I'm pretty sure Gehrig will win this election
2) Cap Anson - I really dislike this guy but his career is incredibly long and productive
3) Jimmie Foxx
4) Roger Connor
5) Dan Brouthers
6) Johnny Mize - gets WWII credit
7) Hank Greenberg - gets WWII credit
8) Jeff Bagwell
9) Frank Thomas
10) Jim Thome
11) Buck Leonard
12) Eddie Murray
13) Mark McGwire
14) Willie McCovey
15) Dick Allen - I had him classified as a 3B but he was in the 1B election last time
16) Harmon Killebrew
17) Joe Start
18) Jake Beckley
19) Rafael Palmeiro
20) Keith Hernandez
21) Mule Suttles
Norm Cash
Ben Taylor
22) Will Clark - not PHoM yet
23) Bill Terry - below the line
24) Todd Helton
25) George Sisler - productive part of his career is just too short
   2. kcgard2 Posted: July 07, 2023 at 05:55 PM (#6136287)
1. Lou Gehrig
2. Jimmie Foxx
3. Roger Connor
4. Cap Anson
5. Jeff Bagwell
6. Johnny Mize - war credit
7. Dan Brouthers
8. Frank Thomas
9. Hank Greenberg - war credit
10. Buck Leonard
11. Mark McGwire
12. Jim Thome
13. Rafael Palmeiro
14. Dick Allen
15. Eddie Murray
16. Willie McCovey
17. Keith Hernandez
18. Bill Terry
19. Harmon Killebrew
20. George Sisler
21. Todd Helton
22. Mule Suttles
23. Will Clark
24. Jake Beckley
25. Joe Start
   3. bjhanke Posted: July 08, 2023 at 06:50 PM (#6136412)
The really good discussion of George Sisler in the Discussion Thread was surprisingly tolerant of my placement. Other than that, nobody really tried to make me move anyone. So, I'm going to go with what I have, and this is this Ballot for Brock Hanke:

1 Lou Gehrig
2 Jimmie Foxx
3 Cap Anson
4 Johnny Mize
5 Jeff Bagwell
6 Mark McGwire
7 Buck Leonard
8 Harmon Killebrew
9 Roger Connor
10 Willie McCovey
11 Eddie Murray
12 George Sisler
13 Dan Brouthers
14 Mule Suttles
15 Dick Allen
16 Will Clark
17 Hank Greenberg
18 Keith Hernandez
19 Todd Helton
20 Jim Thome
21 Rafael Palmeiro
22 Frank Thomas
23 Bill Terry
24 Jake Beckley
25 Joe Start
   4. Rob_Wood Posted: July 09, 2023 at 01:59 PM (#6136518)
1. Lou Gehrig
2. Jimmie Foxx
3. Cap Anson
4. Roger Connor
5. Johnny Mize
6. Buck Leonard
7. Dan Brouthers
8. Hank Greenberg
9. Jeff Bagwell
10. Frank Thomas
11. Jim Thome
12. Mark McGwire
13. Eddie Murray
14. Willie McCovey
15. Rafael Palmeiro
16. Dick Allen
17. George Sisler
18. Keith Hernandez
19. Harmon Killebrew
20. Bill Terry
21. Joe Start
22. Jake Beckley
23. Todd Helton
24. Mule Suttles
25. Will Clark
   5. Chris Cobb Posted: July 09, 2023 at 11:10 PM (#6136591)
1. Lou Gehrig
2. Cap Anson
3. Jimmie Foxx
4. Jeff Bagwell
5. Johnny Mize
6. Roger Connor
7. Dan Brouthers
8. Hank Greenberg
9. Frank Thomas
10. Buck Leonard
11. Eddie Murray
12. Jim Thome
13. Joe Start
14. Rafael Palmeiro
15. Willie McCovey
16. Mark McGwire
17. Keith Hernandez
18. Dick Allen
19. Todd Helton
20. George Sisler
21. Harmon Killebrew
22. Bill Terry
23. Mule Suttles
24. Jake Beckley
25. Will Clark
   6. Bleed the Freak Posted: July 10, 2023 at 03:03 PM (#6136640)
1) Lou Gehrig
(Albert Pujols)

2) Jimmie Foxx
3) Cap Anson
4) Roger Connor
5) Dan Brouthers
6) Johnny Mize - WWII credit

7) Jeff Bagwell
8) Buck Leonard
9) Hank Greenberg - WWII credit

(Miguel Cabrera)
10) Willie McCovey
11) Frank Thomas
12) Jim Thome

13) Eddie Murray
14) Mark McGwire
15) Harmon Killebrew
(Joey Votto)
16) Dick Allen

17) Joe Start
(Paul Goldschmidt)
18) Mule Suttles

Low tier and little to differentiate this group:
David Ortiz
19) Todd Helton
20) Keith Hernandez
21) Will Clark
(Freddie Freeman)
Jason Giambi
22) George Sisler
23) Rafael Palmeiro
24) Bill Terry

Borderline In:
Fred McGriff

Borderline Out:
Luke Easter
Tony Perez
Ben Taylor
Frank Chance
25) Jake Beckley
John Olerud
   7. Jaack Posted: July 14, 2023 at 03:08 PM (#6137032)
Been working quite a bit on the 19th centry guys, finally satisfied wrt my Joe Start placement for the time being:

1. Lou Gehrig
2. Jimmie Foxx
--. Albert Pujols
3. Roger Connor
4. Cap Anson
5. Hank Greenberg
6. Dan Brouthers
7. Jeff Bagwell
8. Johnny Mize
9. Buck Leonard
10. Frank Thomas
11. Willie McCovey
--. Miguel Cabrera
12. Jim Thome
13. Dick Allen
14. Eddie Murray
15. Harmon Killebrew
16. Todd Helton
17. Mark McGwire
18. Keith Hernandez
--. Joey Votto
19. Bill Terry
20. Joe Start
21. Mule Suttles
--. Paul Goldschmidt
22. Rafael Palmeiro
--. David Ortiz
--. Jason Giambi
23. Will Clark
24. George Sisler
--. John Olerud
--. Norm Cash
--. Dolph Camilli
--. Freddie Freeman
--. Frank Chance
--. Tony Perez
25. Jake Beckley
   8. Alex02 Posted: July 16, 2023 at 06:12 PM (#6137258)
1. Lou Gehrig
2. Jimmie Foxx
3. Cap Anson
4. Johnny Mize
5. Jeff Bagwell
6. Roger Connor
7. Dan Brouthers
8. Hank Greenberg
9. Frank Thomas
10. Buck Leonard
11. Jim Thome
12. Rafael Palmeiro
13. Willie McCovey
14. Todd Helton
15. Eddie Murray
16. Mark McGwire
17. George Sisler
18. Dick Allen
19. Mule Suttles
20. Harmon Killebrew
21. Bill Terry
22. Keith Hernandez
23. Jake Beckley
24. Will Clark
25. Joe Start
   9. Howie Menckel Posted: July 18, 2023 at 01:18 AM (#6137352)
so there's probably a listing of the deadline for this ballot somewhere in giant, incandescent lights and somehow I don't notice it. but maybe someone else is also as blind, so......

1. LOU GEHRIG

2. JIMMIE FOXX

3. JOHNNY MIZE

4. CAP ANSON

5. DAN BROUTHERS

6. WILLIE MCCOVEY

7. HANK GREENBERG

8. ROGER CONNOR

9. JEFF BAGWELL

10. FRANK THOMAS

11. BUCK LEONARD

12. MARK MCGWIRE

13. EDDIE MURRAY

14. JIM THOME

15. HARMON KILLEBREW

16. MULE SUTTLES

17. JOE START

18. RICHIE/DICK ALLEN

19. WILL CLARK

20. KEITH HERNANDEZ

21. RAFAEL PALMEIRO

22. TODD HELTON

23. GEORGE SISLER

24. JAKE BECKLEY

25. BILL TERRY
   10. cookiedabookie Posted: July 19, 2023 at 01:16 PM (#6137445)
1. Lou Gehrig PHOM 1945
---Albert Pujols---
2. Jimmie Foxx PHOM 1951
3. Johnny Mize PHOM 1959
4. Buck Leonard PHOM 1954
5. Roger Connor PHOM 1903
6. Hank Greenberg PHOM 1953
7. Cap Anson PHOM 1903
8. Jeff Bagwell PHOM 2011
9. Dan Brouthers PHOM 1910
10. Frank Thomas PHOM 2015
11. Jim Thome PHOM 2018
12. Mark McGwire PHOM 2007
13. Willie McCovey PHOM 1986
14. Dick Allen PHOM 1983
---Miguel Cabrera---
---Joey Votto---
15. Eddie Murray PHOM 2003
---Paul Goldschmidt---
16. Rafael Palmeiro PHOM 2011
17. Harmon Killebrew PHOM 1984
18. Keith Hernandez PHOM 1996
19. Mule Suttles PHOM 1969
---David Ortiz, PHOM 2023---
20. Bill Terry PHOM 1942
21. Will Clark PHOM 2006
---Luke Easter, PHOM 1980---
22. Joe Start PHOM 1902
---John Olerud (likely future PHOM)---
---Norm Cash (likely future PHOM)---
23. Todd Helton (likely future PHOM)
---Jason Giambi, Tony Perez, Ben Taylor, Freddie Freeman, Fred McGriff---
24. George Sisler
---Mark Teixeira, Frank Chance PHOM 1930---
25. Jake Beckley PHOM 1913
   11. DL from MN Posted: August 15, 2023 at 04:29 PM (#6138770)
Due to the site update I'll keep voting open until 9/6
   12. DL from MN Posted: August 31, 2023 at 01:05 PM (#6140104)
I'd still like to end voting on 9/6.
   13. DL from MN Posted: September 05, 2023 at 02:24 PM (#6140537)
Last call for ballots
   14. Guapo Posted: September 05, 2023 at 11:58 PM (#6140588)
1. Cap Anson. Sorry to ruin the party here, but will go ahead and plant my flag. I feel Anson was the greatest player of his era.
2. Lou Gehrig
3. Johnny Mize
4. Roger Connor
5. Dan Brouthers
6. Jimmie Foxx. 3-6 are a virtual tie for me. I'm generous with war credit, and assume that Mize lost 3 MVP-level years. I also think I value players in the 1920-1930 high-octane offense era less than the group in general.
7. Hank Greenberg
8. Jeff Bagwell
9. Frank Thomas
10. Eddie Murray
11. Rafael Palmeiro
12. Jim Thome
13. Mule Suttles
14. Keith Hernandez
15. Buck Leonard
16. Mark McGwire
17. Jake Beckley
18. Willie McCovey
19. Todd Helton
20. Will Clark
21. Joe Start
22. Harmon Killebrew
23. Dick Allen
24. George Sisler
25. Bill Terry

Sisler and Terry are the only two in this list not in my PHOM, but they're both close to the in-out line in my view and very defensible selections.

FWIW, I have Albert Pujols ranked ahead of Anson.


   15. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: September 06, 2023 at 02:45 PM (#6140618)
HoM 1b ranking:

1. Lou Gehrig
2. Jimmie Foxx
3. Cap Anson
4. Roger Connor
5. Dan Brouthers
6. Buck Leonard
7. Frank Thomas
8. Jeff Bagwell
9. Johnny Mize
10. Mark McGwire
11. Hank Greenberg
12. Jim Thome
13. Willie McCovey
14. Dick Allen
15. Mules Suttles
16. Eddie Murray
17. Keith Hernandez
18. George Sisler
19. Will Clark
20. Joe Start
21. Rafael Palmeiro
22. Todd Helton
23. Harmon Killebrew
24. Bill Terry
25. Jake Beckley

Only Terry and Beckley are not in my PHoM.
   16. DL from MN Posted: September 07, 2023 at 09:41 AM (#6140649)
Election is over. Who was tallying ballots?
   17. cookiedabookie Posted: September 10, 2023 at 10:20 PM (#6140985)
Hey DL, just sent you a ballot tally
   18. DL from MN Posted: September 11, 2023 at 10:13 AM (#6141008)
Results are up. Looks like I need to post here so I can post there

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