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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Wednesday, February 15, 2023

Reranking Right Fielders: Ballot

Election will end 1st Mar 2023

Please rank the following 27 right fielders

Henry Aaron
Bobby Abreu
Bobby Bonds
Roberto Clemente
Sam Crawford
Dwight Evans
Elmer Flick
Vladimir Guerrero
Tony Gwynn
Harry Heilmann
Joe Jackson
Reggie Jackson
Al Kaline
Willie Keeler
King Kelly
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson
Pete Rose
Babe Ruth
Gary Sheffield
Enos Slaughter
Reggie Smith
Sammy Sosa
Sam Thompson
Larry Walker
Paul Waner
Dave Winfield

DL from MN Posted: February 15, 2023 at 11:15 AM | 21 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. cookiedabookie Posted: February 15, 2023 at 11:44 AM (#6117218)
1. Babe Ruth
2. Hank Aaron
3. Mel Ott
4. Frank Robinson
5. Al Kaline
6. Roberto Clemente
7. Reggie Jackson
8. Larry Walker
9. Paul Waner
10. Sam Crawford
11. Reggie Smith
12. Gary Sheffield
13. Dwight Evans
14. Shoeless Joe Jackson
15. Bobby Bonds
16. Vladimir Guerrero
17. Sammy Sosa
18. Bobby Abreu
19. Dave Winfield
20. Elmer Flick
21. Tony Gwynn
22. Enos Slaughter
23. Harry Heilmann
24. King Kelly
25. Willie Keeler (not PHoM)
26. Sam Thompson (not PHoM)
   2. kcgard2 Posted: February 15, 2023 at 05:04 PM (#6117290)
1. Babe Ruth
2. Hank Aaron
3. Mel Ott
4. Frank Robinson
5. Roberto Clemente
6. Al Kaline
7. Pete Rose
8. Shoeless Joe Jackson
9. Reggie Jackson
10. Paul Waner
11. Harry Heilmann
12. Larry Walker
13. Sam Crawford
14. Tony Gwynn
15. Reggie Smith
16. Dwight Evans
17. Sammy Sosa
18. Bobby Bonds
19. Elmer Flick
20. Bobby Abreu
21. Gary Sheffield
22. Vladimir Guerrero
23. Dave Winfield
24. Enos Slaughter
25. King Kelly
26. Willie Keeler
27. Sam Thompson

(once again cookie, you're missing Pete Rose)
   3. Alex02 Posted: February 15, 2023 at 06:29 PM (#6117299)
Tweaked slightly from what I had in the other thread. Nos. 16 through 23 were extremely bunched for me.

1. Babe Ruth
2. Henry Aaron
3. Frank Robinson
4. Mel Ott
5. Roberto Clemente
6. Al Kaline
7. Pete Rose
8. Reggie Jackson
9. Joe Jackson
10. Harry Heilmann
11. Paul Waner
12. Larry Walker
13. Tony Gwynn
14. Sam Crawford
15. Enos Slaughter
16. Dave Winfield
17. Dwight Evans
18. Reggie Smith
19. Vladimir Guerrero
20. Gary Sheffield
21. Sammy Sosa
22. King Kelly
23. Bobby Abreu
24. Willie Keeler
25. Elmer Flick
26. Bobby Bonds
27. Sam Thompson
   4. Rob_Wood Posted: February 16, 2023 at 11:02 AM (#6117367)
1. Babe Ruth
2. Hank Aaron
3. Mel Ott
4. Frank Robinson
5. Roberto Clemente
6. Al Kaline
7. Joe Jackson
8. Harry Heilmann
9. Larry Walker
10. Sam Crawford
11. Paul Waner
12. Tony Gwynn
13. Reggie Jackson
14. Pete Rose
15. Enos Slaughter
16. Gary Sheffield
17. Elmer Flick
18. Reggie Smith
19. Dwight Evans
20. King Kelly
21. Bobby Bonds
22. Willie Keeler
23. Bobby Abreu
24. Sammy Sosa
25. Vladimir Guerrero
26. Dave Winfield
27. Sam Thompson
   5. DL from MN Posted: February 16, 2023 at 11:03 AM (#6117368)
1) Babe Ruth
2) Henry Aaron
3) Mel Ott
4) Frank Robinson
5) Paul Waner
6) Al Kaline
7) Sam Crawford
8) Pete Rose
9) Tony Gwynn
10) Reggie Jackson
11) Roberto Clemente
12) Enos Slaughter - war credited 3 seasons
13) Harry Heilmann
14) Larry Walker
15) Gary Sheffield
16) King Kelly - C bonus
17) Willie Keeler - excellent defensive numbers
18) Elmer Flick
19) Joe Jackson - I delete any value he had after he cheated in the World Series applying the lifetime ban to the moment after the rule was broken
20) Dwight Evans
21) Reggie Smith
22) Dave Winfield
-- Brian Giles
23) Bobby Abreu
-- Gavy Cravath
24) Sammy Sosa
25) Vlad Guerrero
26) Sam Thompson
27) Bobby Bonds - not PHoM but not too far below the line. He's right next to Kiki Cuyler and Chuck Klein on my list
   6. cookiedabookie Posted: February 16, 2023 at 12:58 PM (#6117393)
Ignore first ballot counters, I forgot Rose.

1. Babe Ruth
2. Hank Aaron
3. Mel Ott
4. Frank Robinson
5. Al Kaline
6. Roberto Clemente
7. Reggie Jackson
8. Larry Walker
9. Paul Waner
10. Sam Crawford
11. Reggie Smith
12. Gary Sheffield
13. Dwight Evans
14. Shoeless Joe Jackson
15. Pete Rose
16. Bobby Bonds
17. Vladimir Guerrero
18. Sammy Sosa
19. Bobby Abreu
20. Dave Winfield
21. Elmer Flick
22. Tony Gwynn
23. Enos Slaughter
24. Harry Heilmann
25. King Kelly
26. Willie Keeler (not PHoM)
27. Sam Thompson (not PHoM)
   7. Bleed the Freak Posted: February 16, 2023 at 03:00 PM (#6117426)
1. Babe Ruth

2. Henry "Hank" Aaron

3. Mel Ott

4. Frank Robinson
5. Al Kaline

6. Reggie Jackson
7. Roberto Clemente

8. Larry Walker
9. Joe Jackson
10. Pete Rose

11. Paul Waner
12. Gary Sheffield
13. Sam Crawford
14. Dave Winfield
-Ichiro Suzuki-
15. Enos Slaughter
16. Harry Heilmann
17. Dwight Evans

- Mookie Betts -
18. Reggie Smith

19. King Kelly
20. Vladimir Guerrero
21. Elmer Flick
22. Tony Gwynn

In:
23. Bobby Abreu
24. Willie Keeler
25. Bobby Bonds

Borderline In:
-Brian Giles-
-Jack Clark-
-Bryce Harper-

Borderline Out:
-Harry Hooper-
-Kiki Cuyler-
-Tommy Henrich-
26. Sammy Sosa

Next Up:
Gavvy Cravath
Sam Rice



27. Sam Thompson
   8. Jaack Posted: February 16, 2023 at 09:22 PM (#6117536)
1. Babe Ruth
2. Henry Aaron
3. Mel Ott
4. Frank Robinson
5. Al Kaline
6. Roberto Clemente
7. Pete Rose
8. Reggie Jackson
9. Larry Walker
10. Paul Waner
11. Joe Jackson
12. Enos Slaughter
13. Dwight Evans
14. Harry Heilmann
15. Gary Sheffield
-- Ichiro Suzuki
16. Elmer Flick
17. Tony Gwynn
18. Sam Crawford
19. Reggie Smith
-- Mookie Betts
20. King Kelly
21. Vladimir Guerrero
22. Bobby Bonds
-- Kiki Cuyler
23. Willie Keeler
24. Sammy Sosa
-- Tommy Henrich
-- Brian Giles
25. Bobby Abreu
26. Dave Winfield
-- Harry Hooper
-- Bryce Harper
-- Gavy Cravath
-- Dave Parker
-- Rocky Colavito
-- Sam Rice
-- Jack Clark
-- Darryl Strawberry
-- Tony Oliva
27. Sam Thompson
   9. Chris Cobb Posted: February 17, 2023 at 07:46 PM (#6117697)
1. Babe Ruth
2. Henry Aaron
3. Mel Ott. Flips places with Robinson from the prelim.
4. Frank Robinson
5. Al Kaline. Flips places with Clemente from the prelim
6. Roberto Clemente
7. Pete Rose. I zero out the late career below-replacement level seasons
8. Reggie Jackson
9. Larry Walker
10. Joe Jackson
11. Sam Crawford
12. Harry Heilmann
13. Paul Waner
14. Tony Gwynn
15. Gary Sheffield. Not wholly buying the badness of his defense, per total zone.
16. Reggie Smith. Gets a year of credit for play in Japan. Amazingly underappreciated player.
17. Dwight Evans
18. Enos Slaughter. 3 Years war credit. Still a low-peak player, but a very nice career.
19. King Kelly
20. Bobby Abreu
21. Elmer Flick. Was just ahead of Keeler when elected. I think the electorate was on target.
22. Willie Keeler
23. Sammy Sosa. I don't fully buy the assessment of his situational hitting as epically bad, but that flaw drops him from the Kelly/Abreu level.
24. Dave Winfield. Moved up a little from the prelim. Agree he is likely underrated by bWAR, but not as much as some argue. And somebody has to be at the bottom of this ballot. Winfield is bottom quartile, but still solidly in the HoM
25. Bobby Bonds
26. Vladimir Guerrero. Again, somebody has to be at the bottom. Doesn't have as much career or as high a peak as most here, but enough of both to be clearly in.
27. Sam Thompson. Only elected rightfielder who I think is below the in-out line. Not a dreadful choice, but the worst-ranking player from the 1890s elected.
   10. Howie Menckel Posted: February 17, 2023 at 09:24 PM (#6117717)
1. Babe Ruth
2. Hank Aaron
3. Frank Robinson
4. Mel Ott
5. Paul Waner
6. Roberto Clemente
7. Sam Crawford
8. Reggie Jackson
9. Al Kaline
10. Tony Gwynn
11. Shoeless Joe Jackson
12. Pete Rose
13. Harry Heilmann
14. Larry Walker
15. Gary Sheffield
16. King Kelly
17. Dave Winfield
18. Reggie Smith
19. Enos Slaughter
20. Dwight Evans
21. Elmer Flick
22. Willie Keeler
23. Vladimir Guerrero
24. Bobby Abreu
25. Barry Bonds
26. Sammy Sosa
27. Sam Thompson
   11. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: February 17, 2023 at 10:09 PM (#6117721)
Okay - I wanted to post this in the discussion thread first, but the site won't let me. I'm also posting later because I've been revising/simplifying my system. I'm still peak-heavy, but I've reduced some of the emphasis on rate, relying primarily on WAA/WAG with bonus points for MMMP/All-Star awards in my system plus a cWPA-based post-season bonus, if applicable.

1. Babe Ruth - my #1 player all-time
2. Henry Aaron
3. Mel Ott
4. Frank Robinson
5. Roberto Clemente
6. Reggie Jackson
7. Al Kaline
8. Joe Jackson
(Mookie Betts)
9. King Kelly
10. Pete Rose
11. Larry Walker
(Ichiro!)
12. Paul Waner
13. Tony Gwynn
14. Gary Sheffield
15. Elmer Flick
16. Dwight Evans
17. Harry Heilmann
18. Sam Crawford
19. Reggie Smith
20. Sammy Sosa
(Aaron Judge)
(Gavvy Cravath)
21. Vladimir Guerrero
22. Dave Winfield
(Heavy Johnson)
23. Willie Keeler
(Charlie Smith)
24. Sam Thompson
25. Bobby Bonds
(Brian Giles)
26. Bobby Abreu
27. Enos Slaughter
   12. Tiboreau Posted: February 18, 2023 at 06:00 PM (#6117831)
I little bit about my rankings: I have always been more of a peak/prime voter, interested in how great a player was in comparison to the average regular over the course of their career. With that in mind, I look at both Fangraphs' & Baseball-Reference's WAR, adjusting for season-length based on EricJ's method. I then adjust for average, excluding seasons in which a player was below average, and adjusting for the effect of segregation as calculated by Eric C. (Thank you both Erics for sharing your hard work!). Other adjustments I try to make include adjusting for time missed outside their control while healthy, and for playing in a weaker league. So, here are my rankings of members of the Hall of Merit considered to be right fielders!

1. Babe Ruth
2. Hank Aaron
3. Mel Ott
4. Frank Robinson
5. Roberto Clemente
6. Al Kaline
7. Pete Rose
8. Reggie Jackson
9. Larry Walker
10. Joe Jackson
11. Paul Waner
12. Harry Heilmann
13. Sammy Sosa
14. Sam Crawford
15. Reggie Smith
16. Dwight Evans
17. Bobby Bonds
18. Tony Gwynn
19. Bobby Abreu
20. Gary Sheffield
21. Elmer Flick
22. Vladimir Guerrero
23. Dave Winfield
24. King Kelly
25. Willie Keeler
26. Enos Slaughter
27. Sam Thompson

I haven't constructed a PHoM, but the only player on this list who would clearly not make it is Sam Thompson.
   13. cookiedabookie Posted: February 19, 2023 at 03:09 PM (#6117901)
Rankings take three (apologies to ballot counters, including myself). Forgot to give Slaughter war credit

1. Babe Ruth
2. Hank Aaron
3. Mel Ott
4. Frank Robinson
5. Al Kaline
6. Roberto Clemente
7. Reggie Jackson
8. Larry Walker
9. Paul Waner

---Ichiro Suzuki---

10. Enos Slaughter
11. Sam Crawford
12. Reggie Smith
13. Dwight Evans
14. Gary Sheffield
15. Shoeless Joe Jackson
16. Pete Rose
17. Bobby Bonds

---Mookie Betts to date---

18. Vladimir Guerrero
19. Sammy Sosa
20. Bobby Abreu

---Heavy Johnson---

21. Dave Winfield
22. Elmer Flick
23. Tony Gwynn

---Tommy Henrich---
---Gavvy Cravath---

24. Harry Heilmann
25. King Kelly

---In/Out Line---

26. Willie Keeler
27. Sam Thompson
   14. theorioleway Posted: February 22, 2023 at 10:20 PM (#6118255)
1. Ruth (Tier 5)
2. Aaron (Tier 5)
3. F. Robinson (Tier 4)
4. Clemente (Tier 4)
5. Ott (Tier 3)
6. Kaline (Tier 3)
7. R. Jackson (Tier 3)
8. Walker (Tier 3)
9. Gwynn (Tier 3)
10. Evans (Tier 3)
11. Waner (Tier 3)
12. Crawford (Tier 3)
13. Sosa (Tier 3)
14. Kelly (Tier 3)
15. Slaughter (Tier 3)
16. Sheffield (Tier 2.5)
17. Winfield (Tier 2.5)
18. Keeler (Tier 2.5)
19. Rose (Tier 2)
20. J. Jackson (Tier 2)
21. Guerrero (Tier 2)
22. Abreu (Tier 2)
23. Heilmann (Tier 2)
24. Smith (Tier 1)
25. Flick (Tier 1)
26. Bonds (N/A)
27. Thompson (N/A)
   15. DL from MN Posted: February 28, 2023 at 10:59 AM (#6119004)
Reminder - election ends tomorrow
   16. Guapo Posted: February 28, 2023 at 09:50 PM (#6119104)
Submitting a comment complaining about not being able to comment in this thread magically made me able to comment in this thread.

1. Babe Ruth
2. Hank Aaron
3. Mel Ott
4. Frank Robinson
5. Roberto Clemente
6. Al Kaline
7. Pete Rose
8. Sam Crawford
9. Reggie Jackson
10. Larry Walker
11. Tony Gwynn
12. Dwight Evans
13. Harry Heilmann
14. Enos Slaughter
15. Dave Winfield
16. Paul Waner
17. Reggie Smith
18. Joe Jackson
19. Sammy Sosa
20. Barry Bonds
21. Gary Sheffield
22. Vladimir Guerrero
23. Bobby Abreu
24. Willie Keeler
25. Elmer Flick
26. King Kelly
27. Sam Thompson

All 27 of these RFs are in my PHOM, so I cast no aspersions on the names at the bottom of the list.

Ichiro, if eligible, would rank between Kaline and Rose (with credit for his pre-MLB play).
   17. DL from MN Posted: February 28, 2023 at 11:16 PM (#6119113)
Guapo #20 is Bobby Bonds, not Barry.
   18. Esteban Rivera Posted: March 01, 2023 at 04:23 PM (#6119188)
My RF rankings this go around:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Hank Aaron
3. Mel Ott
4. Frank Robinson
5. Roberto Clemente
6. Al Kaline
7. Paul Waner
8. Sam Crawford
9. Reggie Jackson
10. Pete Rose
11. Tony Gwynn
12. Larry Walker
13. Gary Sheffield
14. King Kelly
15. Harry Heilmann
16. Sammy Sosa
17. Elmer Flick
18. Joe Jackson
19. Enos Slaughter
20. Dwight Evans
21. Vladimir Guerrero
22. Willie Keeler
23. Dave Winfield
24. Sam Thompson
25. Bobby Bonds
26. Reggie Smith
27. Bobby Abreu
   19. DL from MN Posted: March 01, 2023 at 04:23 PM (#6119189)
taxandbeerguy

Without too much further review... I'd rank them like this (career voter)
1. Ruth
2. Aaron
3. Ott
4. Robinson
5. Kaline
6. Clemente
7. Crawford
8. Waner
9. R. Jackson
10. Rose
11. J. Jackson
12. Walker
13. Kelly
14. Gwynn
15. Heilmann
16. Sheffield
17. Winfield
18. Slaughter
19. Evans
20. Guerrero
21. Flick
22. Keeler
23. Sosa
24. Smith
25. Abreu
26. Bonds
27. Thompson
   20. DL from MN Posted: March 01, 2023 at 04:33 PM (#6119193)
Election will close at 5:00 eastern
   21. DL from MN Posted: March 01, 2023 at 05:20 PM (#6119198)
Election is finished

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