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Hall of Merit— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
Saturday, February 17, 2007
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 17, 2007 at 01:29 PM (#2299303)1903 Ballot Discussion
First Basemen Positional Thread
If you know of any others, please let me know.
Never mind that his early-career seasons included only 80-something games and that the bulk of his career came in shorter seasons.
Sure, he ranked among the top 3 sluggers in the NL nine times from 1880 to 1890 (and 4th in 1891 and 1892), but it's all about the counting stats!
I'm gonna make that other guy change his first name.....
Sigh.
If by "somewhat backtracked" you mean "completely withdrew," then yes, this is true. Thanks to all who brought me up to speed on Connor- I really appreciate it. He wasn't a player I knew much about, and I plan to continue changing that. Is there a definitive bio on him, incidentally?
Sorry about, Howard. I speed-read your post and didn't pick that up.
Is there a definitive bio on him, incidentally?
I'm not aware of one. He could use one, though I'm not sure there is enough hard data on him out there.
http://baseballguru.com/attiyeh/analysismikeattiyeh01.html
One big thing is to just look at the numbers. His OPS+ are outstanding. WS and WARP also show him as a huge contributor. Once you prorate to 154 or 162 games, however, his counting stats show much better.
BTW, Ruth broke Connor's career HR record, IIRC.
OK, if Harveys said that I might believe it, but.... ; )
This isn't Deadball Stars of the National League, I assume, as I just went back and checked my copy. If you get a chance, let me know the title- I'll grab it.
"One big thing is to just look at the numbers. His OPS+ are outstanding. WS and WARP also show him as a huge contributor. Once you prorate to 154 or 162 games, however, his counting stats show much better."
This I saw- but I was struck by how he wasn't merely a star, but an inner circle guy.
"I saw him play. Awesome."
All joking aside, is he on the short list for players you'd travel back in time and see? What would that team be like?
Well played!
For me, look at his rank among peers in the key categories each year (click the "eligible in 1903" reference above). A very long and very high prime.
And I vote to allow Howard to keep his name after all :)
It's Baseball's First Stars, which is the second volume created for the 19th century stars (the first volume was aptly titled 19th Century Stars). It highlights the pre-20th century HOFers (which is almost all of them - some of them were in the first book, but they weren't enshrined at the time) not in the first book, as well as some other standouts left out of the first volume.
I think Connor would be fun to see, but the guy I'd really want to watch for sheer entertainment value would be King Kelly. There's an awful lot of lore (and myth, surely) about him and about what an interesting player he was to watch. I think Ross Barnes would be fascinating to watch too, just to see how the master of the fair/foul hit did it. And maybe Bid McPhee to see what Brooks Robinson was like...without a glove.
Dunlap was allegedly better, ambidextrous, able to make amazing one-handed catch-and-throws with either hand. Hasn't made the HOM because he didn't last long enough. McPhee's in the HOM because he was very good forever.
Spink touted Dunlap as the best fielding 2nd-baseman ever (as of 1909 at least).
Sounds a little like a bowler in cricket...
The Cincy Red Stockings
Albert Spalding
Ed Williamson
And yes, King Kelly
Billy Hamilton
Amos Rusie
He either covered a lot of ground in center, or he had a tongue like a bullfrog.
Either way, that's something I want to see. :)
I'd like to have seen him when he was transforming the position of shortstop.
Besides the others mentioned, I would have liked to have seen Ezra Sutton and Deacon White. Paul Hines making his circus catches would be a treat, too. Can't forget Joe Start manning the fort at first or Amos Rusie flinging one of his thunderbolts.
But I agree King Kelly most likely would have been the most compelling presence out there.
He was the "C" in the "ABC" of great 1880's first basemen. He didn't quite have the bat of Brouthers and certainly didn't have the longevity as Anson. He appears to have been the best fielder of the three though.
Sounds like a fun Playstation game
Or turning unassisted triple plays!
Frank Grant
Grant Johnson
Bud Fowler
George Stovey
Hm. I've never watched a cricket match. I always thought cricket was like I imagined Al Spalding or Jim Creighton to be pitching, straight underhand, applying "English" to the ball was maybe not quite cricket. Maybe I should get out more. (And stop spending so much time reading here? Naah.)
Here's an introductory video that shows cricket bowlers and their motions:
This Is Cricket - Bowling
Thanks for the link.
Not based on competitive cricket contemporary to American baseball. Underarm to roundarm to shoulder-height (1790s to 1830s) to overarm (permitted 1864).
See Wikipedia: Pre-1850s in sports and all three of its References. And see Wikipedia: Roundarm bowling,
See also Cricket, History of Cricket
Sounds like it's Paperofrecord.com time for me! I'm curious where the Connor support comes from- is it just from his playing record itself?
As a longtime participant I daresay, Connor's playing record put him in the class where many HOM voters did not give him much attention.
Roger Connor has slipped through a few other cracks.
- At the turn of the millenium, he was one of three deceased Hall of Famers buried in an unmarked grave, with Bill Foster and Turkey Stearnes, two Negro Leagues stars. Connor played and managed (and owned?) ballclubs in Connecticut after his major league career and CT is the wealthiest state in the Union. It's hard to believe.
- At about the same time, the Baseball Survivor project did not include him in its initial group of 100+ premier players.
Is there a definitive bio on him, incidentally?
No. At least two people in Western CT are doing some research on Connor. (I have met two by email, perhaps this winter and last summer.) I don't remember whether either one plans a full-length book.
He died in 1931- did he lose everything in the crash? Even his gravesite? That doesn't sound like a happy story... thanks for the info though.
A paragraph about his death appears on page 8 of the 1/8/31 Sporting News, and several on 1/15- so it wasn't unknown...
But the Hall of Fame this year added some others without markers including Sol White. The SABR Negro Leagues Cmte published a list, about 7 of 17 inductees or about 7 of 39 finalists. It called for members to research the gravesites, if necessary, and help work on markers, which probably means locate/persuade some local non-members who might contribute money.
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