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Hall of Merit— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
Tuesday, August 21, 2007
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: August 21, 2007 at 02:12 PM (#2493321)Pendleton certainly seems to be heads and tails above the other two in terms of character.
BTW, Julio Franco is older than all three.
Hit .297/.342/.433 in AAA
hit .324/.357/.420 in 262 MLB at bats and then...
was as bad a hitter as you can imagine for two years, then from 87 to 89 he was decent considering that he was a good defensive 3B
he won in arbitration after his 1989 season, $1.85mm an absolutely absurd sum to be awarded in arbitration, given salaries in 1989/90 and his established level -
then he hit .230 /.277/.324 in 1990 and afterwards the Cards let him go without offering arbitration.
The Braves then overpaid for his services in 1991- they were a bad team - had finished last 3 years in a row- Schuerholz/Cox wanted his glove and were willing to overpay for it- $1.75mm
Viola! for the next 2 years he was one of the ten best players in the NL. He quickly sunk back into mediocrity after that, but the Braves had Chipper and no longer needed him.
Schuerholz/Cox- brilliant or lucky or both?
I got the style but not the grace
I got the clothes but not the face
The 80's Cardinals never put together what would have been the perfect infield defense at the same time, because Hernandez was gone before Pendleton arrived. I think Oberkfell/Smith/Herr/Hernandez was a better group than Pendleton/Smith/Herr/Clark, but Pendleton could pick'em.
Of course, Pendleton's (highly unexpected) MVP really should belong to Bonds, but Barry's got a bunch of those anyway.
>Cecil was ...big in Japan,
He was just big.
None is in my consideration set now that I've whittled it down from 150+ to 50+. Come to think of it, they might not be in the top 150.
Much uglier than Pendleton's '91 MVP was the fact that four voters actually picked him ahead of Bonds in 1992:
Bonds, 1992: .311/.456/.624, 205 OPS+, 39 SB
Pendleton, 1992: .311/.345/.473, 125 OPS+, 5 SB
And both their teams made the playoffs.
Brilliant and lucky with Pendleton the first time around; however, they pushed their luck and got bitten on the *** when they brought him back in 1996. 177 PA of sub-600 OPS down the stretch. And man, game six of the World Series. i still can see him swinging away at every ball Jimmy Key offered, hacking away right after Key walked Jermaine (8 BB in 300 PA) Dye with the bases loaded, until finally hitting into the rally-ending double play. Man, that whole world series still ****** me off.
Terry Pendleton did great things for the Braves in 91 and 92. I just wish he hadn't been brought back for that brutal 96 performance.
I'll admit that in '92, it looks very hard to justify a vote for Pendleton over Bonds. A lot of clubhouse credit there... Oddly, Win Shares has them much closer in '92 than '91. At a glance, I can't understand why WS thinks Pendleton's '92 was so much better than '91 (35 to 27). Defensively, he led the league with 6 each year. So his batting WS in '92 were 29, compared to 21 in '91, even though his OPS+ was 14 points lower? ATL slightly outperformed Pythag both seasons. Pendleton played a few more games in '92. I don't get it.
The picture is fuzzy but worth your time if you haven't seen this great catch previously.
http://www.beckett.com/items/346082/?N=0
The above is a renactment from 1993 Topps of his famous catch.
It was great meeting Kevin Mitchell. I asked him to sign that very card at CJ Sports Cards in San Diego in 2005. When healthy, he could mash with the best of them. A colorful character in person too.
I'm pretty sure that was Ozzie Smith as the hitter who got robbed.
Your correct!
SFrac = Percentage of a league average player's plate appearances
BWAA = batting wins above league average
BRWAA = baserunning wins above league average
FWAA = fielding wins above positional average
Rep = Wins above average generated by a replacement player at the same position in the same amount of playing time
WARP = Wins above replacement player
Player Pos SFrac BWAA BRWAA FWAA Rep WARP
Larkin 6 .78 3.5 0.5 1.5 -2.6 8.1
Bonds 7 .94 6.0 0.4 0.7 -0.9 7.9
Sandberg 4 1.02 4.3 0.3 1.2 -1.7 7.6
OSmith 6 .95 2.0 0.7 1.0 -3.2 6.8
Pendleton 5 .95 3.4 0.1 1.7 -1.3 6.5
WClark 3 .93 5.0 0.3 0.8 -0.2 6.2
Bonilla 7 1.01 5.1 -0.4 -0.2 -1.0 5.5
Butler 8 1.08 3.0 -0.5 1.1 -1.6 5.2
Bell 6 .99 1.7 -0.1 0.1 -3.3 5.0
Sabo 5 .95 3.2 0.4 0.1 -1.2 4.9
I know Larkin only played 123 games--but *man*, were they good. Fourth in the league in OPS, oustanding baserunning (particularly of the non-SB variety), and near-historically great defense at SS according to the uberstats (118 defensive Rate by BP, 12.5 Fielding WS per 162 games). His missed games make it very, very close, but he was just so extraordinary when he played that I still think he's the MVP.
Pendleton, although he had an excellent season, was a very bad MVP choice--why not take Ryno if you wanted an infielder and didn't like Larkin's missed games?
Has anyone read The Ticket Out? Should I move it up on my reading list?
(Neutralized pr BBRef: .287/.389/.614 with 54 homers and 143 RBI.
at age 27 he had an OPS+ of 134 (neutralized line of .266/.352/.522 with 45 Hr and 138 RBI)
Last year at age 26 Ryan Howard had an OPS+ of 170 and a K/UIBB ratio of 181/71 (and a neutralized line of .299/.408/.627 with 54 homers and 134 rbi)
This year Ryan Howard has an OPS+ of 139* and a neutralized line of .253/.376/.546.
Essentially Cecil Fielder WAS Ryan Howard. (and that comparison absolutely infuriates Phillies Phans like nothing else.
Other than that Fielder was a poor defensive 1B with 5939 PA and a career OPS+ of 119. Makes the Hall of Good (as opposed to the HOVG), but 1990 was an impressive offensive season.
*remove IBBs before doing OBP and Fielder's OPS+ at 26 and 27 actually matched Howard's ratehr than being slightly less
I got the clothes but not the face
Got the rooster
but not the crow
Got the ebb,
But not the flow.
Bill
I know this is double counting- but McGriff was a Yankee minor league 1B at the same time as Mattingly- Matting;y was approx 2 year ahead so McGriff was sent to Toronto...
Rice and Lynn came up at the same time, and both were OFs, but that's not the same thing, OFs and SPs don't really block eachother.
Grace/Palmiero
The Brooklyn Dodgers came up with Roy Campanella and Gil Hodges in the same year. There are some reports that Hodges was a terrific catcher, but obviously with Campy around, he wasn't going to be needed behind the plate.
I didn't think this sounded right, and I checked. Sandberg was primarily a SS in the Phillies system. He played only 4 games a 3B. The Cubs put him at 3B after the trade because they had acquired 2B Bump Wills in another high profile trade.
Cronin and Vaughan? It's close, but maybe Cronin was too early?
Dawson and Raines?
Murphy and Rickey?
Brady Anderson and Ellis Burks and Mike Greenwell?
Darren Daulton and John Russell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ryan, Van Haltren and Duffy? (Although they played them all together)
Reese and Pesky, although they may not be close enough in value.
Glavine and Smoltz, if you're looking at pitchers.
Otis and Singleton? (Different positions, but Mets fans like to complain about bad trades.)
Bagwell and Vaughn?
Comparing games played with at least some 1B to games played with no 1B:
YEAR CEPEDA McCOVEY
1958 147/1 n/a
1959 122/29 51/1
1960 91/60 71/30
1961 81/71 84/22
1962 160/2 17/74
1963 150/6 23/129
1964 139/3 26/104
1965 4/29 156/4
1966* 6/13 145/5
* Cepeda was traded to the Cardinals early in the 1966 season.
In 1960-61, Cepeda and McCovey split the 1B time fairly evenly. McCovey was stuck mainly in the OF from 1962-64, and moved back to 1B in 1965 after Cepeda's injury.
YEAR UPSHAW FIELDER McGRIFF
1985 147/1 25/5 n/a
1986 154/1 7/27 1/2
1987 146/4 16/66 14/93
1988 -/- 17/57 153/1
Willie Upshaw was the first-string 1B through 1987, with both Fielder and McGriff on limited playing time. *rolls eyes*
YEAR PALMEIRO GRACE
1986 0/22 n/a
1987 18/66 n/a
1988 5/147 133/1
Palmeiro did not become a full-time 1B until he was traded to the Rangers after the 1988 season.
Bill
And I rooted against him in all but the first one!!!!
Varitek and Hatteberg is kind of a weird one.
Edgar and Presley...sort of....
Sheffield, Speiers, and Listach all came up as SS right around the same time and were pretty close in age.
In 1986ish, Mike Aldrete and Will Clark was sure to be included in this list, the new Cepeda/McCovey...didn't turn out quite like that.
And how can I forget Mike Stanley and Geno Petralli?
There might have been one brewing in the Yankees infield at the turn of the century. But D'Angelo Jimenez broke his neck and Alfonso Soriano seized 2B.
McCann/Saltalamacchia
Maybe a little too much separation...but Roberto Kelly was the Yanks regular CF for 2 seasons before Bernie Williams finally made his long-awaited debut. Williams split a couple seasons between Columbus and NY before forcing the Yanks to trade Kelly away.
Kurt Stillwell and Barry Larkin
Obviously none of these have proven themselves to be on the Cepeda/McCovey level.
I dunno, Grace/Palmeiro are pretty close. By WARP3:
Grace - 96.4
Palmeiro - 138.8
McCovey - 106.9
Cepeda - 87.8
Yeah, I know the latter two are HOFers and the former two are not, but Raffy would be had he not gotten caught, and Cepeda is probably a mistake, and probably not much better than Grace.
Someone made the comment that Raffy didn't play much first base until he left the Cubs, which is true. But it was pretty obvious watching him in 1988 that his future was at first.
Actually, at the same time (83-86) KC came up with Saberhagen, Gubicza, Danny Jackson, and Scott Bankhead, 4 guys who all pitched at least 10 seasons. That seems like a lot.
Oh, I just meant my examples.
And one of the best of them, Kenny Rogers, was stuck in the minors for seven years (1982-88).
Bill Almon and Ozzie Smith make a good pair, though.
-- MWE
"It makes me feel like a champion."
He was talking about why he ate Vick's Vap-O-Rub.
put together
Alomar Jr/Santiago?
That's all I got.
I don't recall whether Priddy was a shortstop.
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