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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, August 02, 2004The Baseball Hall of Merit Plaque Room: Home PageEnter here to see the players that have been immortalized in the Hall of Merit. John Murphy was the curator of the Plaque Room and creator (with Ryan Wagman’s help) of the plaques. As of 2011 the creator of the plaques is theorioleway. David Foss is in charge of the franchise cap standings. Devin McCullen provides the city and state cap standings. yest helps us out double-checking the plaques for accuracy. The whole process is overseen by our commissioner and founder Joe Dimino. For Hall of Meriters A-F, please click here. The current roster (267 total) includes (in alphabetical order for each position): Pitchers (74): Pete Alexander+, Kevin Brown+, Bert Blyleven+, Mordecai Brown, Ray Brown+, Jim Bunning+, Steve Carlton+, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson+, Roger Clemens+**, Stan Coveleski, David Cone, Martín Dihigo+, Don Drysdale+, Dennis Eckersley+, Red Faber+, Bob Feller+, Wes Ferrell, Rollie Fingers, Whitey Ford+, Rube Foster, Willie Foster, Pud Galvin, Bob Gibson+, Tom Glavine+, Rich Gossage+, Clark Griffith, Lefty Grove+*, Carl Hubbell+, Walter Johnson+*, Fergie Jenkins, Randy Johnson+*, Tim Keefe, Sandy Koufax+, Bob Lemon, Ted Lyons, Greg Maddux+**, Juan Marichal+, Pedro Martinez+, Christy Mathewson+**, Joe McGinnity, José Méndez, Mike Mussina, Hal Newhouser+, Kid Nichols+, Phil Niekro, Satchel Paige+, Jim Palmer+, Gaylord Perry+, Billy Pierce, Eddie Plank, Charley Radbourn, Rick Reuschel, Eppa Rixey, Robin Roberts+, Bullet Rogan+, Red Ruffing, Amos Rusie+, Nolan Ryan, Bret Saberhagen, Curt Schilling, Tom Seaver+**, John Smoltz, Warren Spahn+, Al Spalding, Dave Stieb, Don Sutton+, Dazzy Vance, Rube Waddell, Ed Walsh+, Hoyt Wilhelm+, Smokey Joe Williams, Early Wynn and Cy Young+*. Catchers (22): Johnny Bench+, Charlie Bennett, Yogi Berra+, Roger Bresnahan, Roy Campanella+, Gary Carter+, Mickey Cochrane+, Bill Dickey, Buck Ewing+, Carlton Fisk+, Bill Freehan, Josh Gibson+, Gabby Hartnett+, Biz Mackey, Cal McVey, Mike Piazza+, Ivan Rodriguez+, Louis Santop+, Ted Simmons+, Joe Torre, Quincy Trouppe and Deacon White+. First Basemen (23): Cap Anson+, Jeff Bagwell+, Jake Beckley, Dan Brouthers+**, Will Clark+, Roger Connor+, Jimmie Foxx+, Lou Gehrig+*, Hank Greenberg+, Keith Hernandez+, Harmon Killebrew+, Buck Leonard+, Willie McCovey+, Mark McGwire+, Johnny Mize+, Eddie Murray+, Rafael Palmeiro, George Sisler, Joe Start, Mule Suttles, Bill Terry+, Frank Thomas+, and Jim Thome+. Second Basemen (23): Roberto Alomar+, Ross Barnes+, Craig Biggio+, Rod Carew+, Cupid Childs, Eddie Collins, Bobby Doerr, Nellie Fox, Frankie Frisch, Charlie Gehringer+, Joe Gordon, Frank Grant, Bobby Grich+, Billy Herman, Rogers Hornsby+**, Nap Lajoie+, Bid McPhee, Joe Morgan+, Willie Randolph, Hardy Richardson, Jackie Robinson+, Ryne Sandberg+, and Lou Whitaker+. Third Basemen (21): Dick Allen+, Frank Baker+, John Beckwith, Wade Boggs+*, George Brett+**, Ken Boyer, Jimmy Collins, Darrell Evans+, Heinie Groh, Stan Hack, Chipper Jones+*, Eddie Mathews+, John McGraw, Paul Molitor+, Graig Nettles, Brooks Robinson, Scott Rolen+, Ron Santo+, Mike Schmidt+*, Ezra Sutton, and Jud Wilson. Shortstops (26): Luke Appling+, Ernie Banks+, Lou Boudreau, Joe Cronin, Bill Dahlen+, George Davis+, Jack Glasscock, Hughie Jennings, Home Run Johnson, Barry Larkin+, John Henry Lloyd, Dick Lundy, Dobie Moore, Dickey Pearce, Pee Wee Reese+, Cal Ripken, Jr.+**, Joe Sewell, Ozzie Smith+, Alan Trammell+, Arky Vaughan+, Honus Wagner+*, Bobby Wallace, John Ward+, Willie Wells, George Wright and Robin Yount+. Left Fielders (24): Jesse Burkett, Barry Bonds+*, Fred Clarke+, Ed Delahanty+, Goose Goslin, Rickey Henderson+*, Monte Irvin, Charley Jones, Charlie Keller, Joe Kelley, Ralph Kiner, Sherry Magee, Joe Medwick, Minnie Minoso, Stan Musial+*, Tim Raines+, Jimmy Sheckard, Al Simmons+, Willie Stargell+, Harry Stovey, Zack Wheat+, Billy Williams, Ted Williams+*, and Carl Yastrzemski+. Center Fielders (28): Richie Ashburn+, Earl Averill, Cool Papa Bell, Willard Brown, Pete Browning, Max Carey, Oscar Charleston+, Ty Cobb+, Andre Dawson, Joe DiMaggio+*, Larry Doby+, Jim Edmonds, George Gore+, Ken Griffey, Jr.+**, Billy Hamilton+, Pete Hill+, Paul Hines+ , Mickey Mantle+*, Willie Mays+*, Alejandro Oms, Jim O’Rourke+, Lip Pike, Edd Roush, Duke Snider+, Tris Speaker+, Turkey Stearnes+, Cristóbal Torriente and Jimmy Wynn. Right Fielders (25): Hank Aaron+*, Roberto Clemente+, Sam Crawford**, Dwight Evans+, Elmer Flick, Tony Gwynn+, Harry Heilmann, Vladimir Guerrero, Joe Jackson, Reggie Jackson+, Al Kaline+, Willie Keeler, King Kelly+, Mel Ott+, Manny Ramirez+,Frank Robinson+**, Pete Rose, Babe Ruth+*, Gary Sheffield, Enos Slaughter+, Reggie Smith, Sam Thompson, Larry Walker+, Paul Waner+ and Dave Winfield+. Designated Hitters (1): Edgar Martinez+ + first-year candidate honorees (151) * unanimously first on each voter’s ballot (18) ** placed in “elect me” ballot positions on each voter’s ballot, but not unanimously in first (11) 2018 Franchise Cap Standings 1. Giants - 19 (Bonds, Bresnahan, WClark, Connor, GDavis, DaEvans, Ewing, Hubbell, Keefe, Marichal, Mathewson, WMays, McCovey, McGinnity, Ott, GPerry, Rusie, Terry, Ward) 2T. Cubs - 17 (Anson, Banks, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, Griffith, Hack, Hartnett, BiHerman, Jenkins, KKelly, Reuschel, Sandberg, Santo, Sheckard, BiWilliams) 2T. Braves - 17 (Aaron, Barnes, Glavine, Jones, Maddux, Mathews, McVey, Nichols, PNiekro, O'Rourke, Smoltz, Spahn, Spalding, ESutton, Torre, DWhite, GWright) 4. Indians - 14 (Averill, Boudreau, Coveleski, Doby, Feller, WFerrell, Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Lemon, JSewell, Speaker, Thome, EWynn) 5T. Yankees - 13 (Berra, Dickey, Dimaggio, WFord, Gehrig, Gordon, Gossage, Keller, Mantle, Nettles, Randolph, Ruffing, Ruth) 5T. Cardinals - 13 (KBoyer, Caruthers, Edmonds, Frisch, BGibson, KHernandez, Hornsby, Medwick, Mize, Musial, TSimmons, Slaughter, OSmith) 7T. Athletics - 12 (FBaker, Cochrane, Eckersley, Fingers, Foxx, Grove, Henderson, McGwire, Plank, ReJackson, ASimmons, Waddell) 7T. Phillies - 12 (Alexander, DAllen, Ashburn, Carlton, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, RRoberts, Rolen, Schilling, Schmidt, Thompson) 9T. Tigers - 11 (Bunning, Cobb, Crawford, Freehan, Gehringer, Greenberg, Heilmann, Kaline, Newhouser, Trammell, Whitaker) 9T. Red Sox - 11 (Boggs, Clemens, JCollins, Doerr, DwEvans, Fisk, Martinez, Ramirez, RSmith, TWilliams, Yastrzemski) 11T. Reds - 10 (Bench, CJones, Groh, Larkin, McPhee, Morgan, Rixey, FRobinson, Rose, Roush) 11T. Dodgers - 10 (Campanella, Drysdale, Koufax, Piazza, PWReese, JRobinson, Snider, DSutton, Vance, Wheat) 11T. White Sox - 10 (Appling, ECollins, Faber, Fox, Lyons, Minoso, BPierce, Thomas, Walsh, Wilhelm) 14. Pirates - 9 (Beckley, Carey, Clarke, Clemente, Kiner, Stargell, Vaughn, Wagner, PWaner) 15. Orioles/Browns - 7 (Murray, Mussina, Palmer, Ripken, BRobinson, Sisler, Wallace) 16. Twins/Senators - 6 (Blyleven, Carew, Cronin, Goslin, WJohnson, Killebrew) 17T. Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 4 (Jennings, Keeler, Kelley, McGraw) 17T. Montreal Expos - 4 (GCarter, Dawson, Guerrero, Raines) 19T. Astros - 3 (Bagwell, Biggio, JWynn) 19T. Buffalo Bisons - 3 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson) 19T. Chicago American Giants - 3 - (WFoster, PHill, Torriente) 19T. Cleveland Spiders - 3 (Burkett, Childs, CYoung) 19T. Homestead Grays - 3 (RBrown, JGibson, BLeonard) 19T. Kansas City Monarchs - 3 (WBrown, DMoore, Rogan) 19T. Saint Louis Stars - 3 (CPBell, Suttles, WWells) 19T Rangers - 3 (K. Brown, Palmeiro, Rodriguez) 27T. Angels - 2 (Grich, NRyan) 27T. Baltimore Black Sox - 2 (Beckwith, JWilson) 27T. Blue Jays - 2 (Alomar, Stieb) 27T. Brewers - 2 (Molitor, Yount) 27T. Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start) 27T. Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop) 27T. Mariners - 2 (Griffey Jr., Martinez) 27T. Mets - 2 (Cone, Seaver) 27T. New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams) 27T. Padres - 2 (Gwynn, Winfield) 27T. Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne) 27T. Royals - 2 (Brett, Saberhagen) 39T. Almendares Blues - 1 (JMendez) 39T. Atlantic City Bacharach Giants - 1 (Lundy) 39T. Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock) 39T. Cleveland Buckeyes - 1 (QTrouppe) 39T. Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant) 39T. Cuban Stars East - 1 (Oms) 39T. Detroit Stars - 1 (Stearnes) 39T. Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett) 39T. Diamondbacks - 1 (RJohnson) 39T. Habana Reds - 1 (Dihigo) 39T. Hilldale Daisies - 1 (Mackey) 39T. Indianapolis ABC's - 1 (Charleston) 39T. Louisville Colonels - 1 (Browning) 39T. Marlins - 1 (Sheffield) 39T. Newark Eagles - 1 (Irvin) 39T. Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey) 39T. Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster) 39T. Pittsburgh Crawfords - 1 (Paige) 39T Rockies - 1 (Walker) 39T. Saint Louis Brown Stockings (NA/NL) - 1 (Pike) 2018 Cap Standings by City 1. Chicago - 30 (Anson, Appling, Banks, M. Brown, J. Clarkson, E. Collins, Dahlen, Faber, B. Foster, Fox, Gore, Griffith, Hack, Hartnett, Herman, Hill, Jenkins, Kelly, Lyons, Minoso, Pierce, Reuschel, Sandberg, Santo, Sheckard, Thomas, Torriente, Walsh, Wilhelm, Bi. Williams) 2. New York - 29 (Berra, Bresnahan, Cone, Connor, G. Davis, Dickey, DiMaggio, Ewing, Ford, Gehrig, Gordon, Gossage, Hubbell, Keefe, Keller, Lloyd, Mantle, Mathewson, McGinnity, Nettles, Ott, Randolph, Ruffing, Rusie, Ruth, Seaver, Terry, Ward, J. Williams) 3. Philadelphia - 21 (Alexander, Allen, Ashburn, Baker, Carlton, Cochrane, Delahanty, R. Foster, Foxx, Grove, Hamilton, Magee, Plank, Roberts, Rolen, Schilling, Schmidt, A. Simmons, H. Stovey, Thompson, Waddell) 4T. Cleveland - 19 (Averill, Boudreau, Burkett, Childs, Coveleski, Doby, Feller, W. Ferrell, Flick, Glasscock, J. Jackson, Lajoie, Lemon, Sewell, Speaker, Thome, Trouppe, E. Wynn, Young) 4T. St. Louis - 19 (Bell, Boyer, Caruthers, Edmonds, Frisch, B. Gibson, Hernandez, Hornsby, Medwick, Mize, Musial, Pike, T. Simmons, Sisler, Slaughter, Smith, Suttles, Wallace, Wells) 4T. Boston - 19 (Barnes, Boggs, Clemens, J. Collins, Doerr, Dw. Evans, Fisk, Martinez, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Ramirez, Smith, Spalding, E. Sutton, White, T. Williams, G. Wright, Yastrzemski) 7T. Detroit - 13 (Bennett, Bunning, Cobb, Crawford, Freehan, Gehringer, Greenberg, Heilmann, Kaline, Newhouser, Stearnes, Trammell, Whitaker) 7T. Pittsburgh - 13 (Beckley, R. Brown, Carey, Clarke, Clemente, J. Gibson, Kiner, B. Leonard, Paige, Stargell, Vaughan, Wagner, Waner) 9. Baltimore - 11 (Beckwith, Jennings, Keeler, Kelley, McGraw, Murray, Mussina, Palmer, Ripken, B. Robinson, Wilson) 10T. Brooklyn* - 10 (Campanella, G. Johnson, Pearce, Reese, J. Robinson, Santop, Snider, Start, Vance, Wheat) 10T. Cincinnati - 10 (Bench, Groh, Jones, Larkin, McPhee, Morgan, Rixey, F. Robinson, Rose, Roush) 12. San Francisco - 7 (Bonds, Clark, Da. Evans, Marichal, Mays, McCovey, G. Perry) 13. Milwaukee - 6 (Aaron, Mathews, Molitor, Spahn, Torre, Yount) 14T. Kansas City - 5 (Brett, W. Brown, Moore, Rogan, Saberhagen) 14T. Oakland - 5 (Eckersley, Fingers, Henderson, R. Jackson, McGwire) 14T. Atlanta - 5 (Glavine, Jones, Maddux, Niekro, Smoltz) 17T. Los Angeles - 4 (Drysdale, Koufax, Piazza, D. Sutton) 17T. Montreal - 4 (Carter, Dawson, Guerrero, Raines) 19T. Buffalo - 3 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson) 19T. Houston - 3 (Bagwell, Biggio, J. Wynn) 19T. Minneapolis/St. Paul - 3 (Blyleven, Carew, Killebrew) 19T. Washington, DC - 3 (Cronin, Goslin, W. Johnson) 19T. Arlington - 3 (K. Brown, Palmeiro, Rodriguez) 24T. Anaheim* - 2 (Grich, N. Ryan) 24T. N/A - 2 (F. Grant, Oms) 24T. Providence - 2 (Hines, Radbourne) 24T. San Diego – 2 (Gwynn, Winfield) 24T. Seattle – 2 (Griffey Jr., Martinez) 24T. Toronto – 2 (Alomar, Stieb) 30T. Almendares* - 1 (Mendez) 30T. Atlantic City – 1 (Lundy) 30T. Darby, PA* - 1 (Mackey) 30T. Denver - 1 (Walker) 30T. Havana - 1 (Dihigo) 30T. Indianapolis - 1 (Charleston) 30T. Louisville – 1 (Browning) 30T. Miami - 1 (Sheffield) 30T. Newark - 1 (Irvin) 30T. Phoenix - 1 (R.Johnson) * Cities marked with an asterisk could be considered to be part of another city. 2018 Cap Standings by State, Province, Foreign Country (if there is no knowm state or province) or U.S. Capital: 1. New York (42) 2. Pennsylvania (35) 3T. Illinois (29) 3T. Ohio (29) 5. Missouri (24) 6. California (20) 7. Massachusetts (19) 8. Michigan (13) 9. Maryland (11) 10T. Wisconsin (6) 10T. Texas (6) 11T. Georgia (5) 12. Quebec (4) 14T. District of Columbia (3) 14T. Minnesota (3) 16T. Cuba (2) 16T. Indiana (2) 16T. Kentucky (2) 16T. New Jersey (2) 16T. Ontario (2) 16T. Rhode Island (2) 16T. Washington (2) 23T. Arizona (1) 23T. Colorado (1) 23T. Florida (1) 23T. Oregon (1)
All Negro League awards mentioned on the plaques are from John Holway’s The Complete Book of Baseball’s Negro Leagues (Fleet Walker Award = MVP; George Stovey Award = Cy Young Award; Rube Foster Award = Playoff MVP). Primary positions on the plaques will be distinguished from secondary positions on all plaques by bold type. Seasons are calculated this way: (Games Played/Team’s Scheduled Games). Each result is added up for each season to get the final number shown on each plaque. Here are the plaques for the 2013 inductees: Roger Clemens - 2013 - P Mike Piazza - 2013 - C Craig Biggio - 2013 - 2B/C/CF JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head
Posted: August 02, 2004 at 05:37 PM | 1490 comment(s)
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Looks like we'll be converging with the HoF over the next 10-15 years, though. Torriente and Groh seem like the only _likely_ non-HoF electees between now and 1944, though it's possible we'll put it one or two others in 1938-40 or 42.
Trying to find an overlooked MLB star from the 1920's/1930's?
Good luck. I bet we'll be ignoring more HOFers than we induct.
Debate! :-)
If Cy's a Cleveland Spider, Tris is a Red Sox!
His 1916 looks just as good, so it's a push.
and two of his three WS were with the Red Sox.
If it was close, then I would say give it to Boston because of the WS. But it's really not close.
We're not going to elect Hooper or Smokey Joe, and I think it would be a mistake not to have ONE repesentative of the 1912-18 Sox in the right cap.
I hear you, karlmagnus, but I have to be fair to both cities. Besides, don't forget about Carl Mays! Of course, maybe he get a Yank cap. :-)
I already lost the Young debate don't want to lose Speaker too
It works both ways; if Manny Ramirez (clearly a future HOMer) plays another 4 years in Boston and then say 5 more with other clubs, there would be a presumption in favor of Cleveland, even though he would have played more games with Boston.
Hall of Famer Happy Jack Chesbro says, "I would go in as a Highlander!"
Correct, but the key criteria should be value, not total games. After his stay in Boston, if he were to play more games with another team (but at a mediocre level), that wouldn't be enough to take away his Red Sox cap.
BTW, definites for the Red Sox are: Ted Williams (duh!), Roger Clemens, Carlton Fisk (close call for team cap, but I would give it to Pudge for WS competition as the tiebreaker), Pedro Martinez, Bobby Doerr, Wade Boggs and Yaz.
Borderline are: Carl Mays (hard to figure which cap though), Johnny Pesky, Reggie Smith, Dwight Evans, Luis Tiant, Jim Rice
For the Mets:
Definites: Tom Seaver, Mike Piazza (not at this point though for the Mets)
Borderline: Straw?, Doctor K?
God, they stink! :-(
When they make a HoF for Immortals who cut off other Immortals' heads with their swords, then maybe I'll give him a vote for that one (if he qualifies). :-)
So that makes eight definites now for your home team, so stop your crying now. :-)
Yeah, but what does it say on their caps? :-)
none of my comments have been changed or commented on by you
on Bid McPhee's plaque is says
he retired with many of the career records for second basemen (including the major league records for most putouts for a second baseman (529) in 1886 and the career record for fielding average (.978)).
maybe we should add most career assists (6905), career double plays (1186), and career putouts (6545) a record which he still holds.
by the way can you delete the extra parentheses
also maybe we should add to Al Spalding’s plaque that he had the most wins every year from 1871-1876
on Ezra Sutton’s plaque it says
“The greatest third baseman of the 19th Century. “
can you change that to
arguably the greatest third baseman of the 19th Century
some of us feel it was Williamson, or McGraw ext.
Since Joe has a problem with the word arguably maybe probably would work instead
As for Sutton, you can make an argument that Williamson or McGraw were better than Sutton peak-wise (but not by much). But the only way anyone can argue Sutton over those two career-wise is if you don't take into account the shorter season schedule and his NA play. Overall, Sutton is comfortably above those two. Besides, as Joe said, the electorate overwhelmingly agrees that he was the best.
on Bid McPhee's plauque it says
in 1886 and the career record for fielding average (.978)).
can you delete the extra parentheses.
Besides, as Joe said, the electorate overwhelmingly agrees that he was the best.
the problem I have with saying that
is I don't like any absolute opinions
Yest, here is the whole part of the sentence in parentheses:
(including the major league records for most putouts for a second baseman (529) in 1886, career assists (6,905), career double plays (1,186), career putouts (6,545) and the career record for fielding average (.978))
I have it right. The second one after .978 closes the first one before including.
the problem I have with saying that
is I don't like any absolute opinions
The point is that it goes beyond opinion but into fact.
But if you can change Joe's mind about Sutton's plaque, more power to you. :-)
1. Giants - 8 (Connor, GDavis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Ward)
2T. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, Sutton, GWright)
2T. Cubs - 7 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly, Sheckard)
4T. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
4T. Indians - 4 (Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Speaker)
4T. Phillies - 4 (Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
7T. Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
7T. Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
7T. Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
7T. Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
7T. Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, Young)
7T. Pirates - 2 (Clarke, Wagner)
7T. Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
7T. Tigers - 2 (Cobb, Crawford)
15T.Cardinals - 1 (Caruthers)
15T.Chicago American Giants - 1 - (PHill)
15T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
15T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
15T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
15T.Dodgers - 1 (Wheat)
15T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
15T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
15T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
15T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
15T.Reds - 1 (McPhee)
15T.Twins - 1 (WJohnson)
15T.White Sox - 1 (Walsh)
28T.Yankees - 0
Thank you, David! I actually start working on the plaques a couple of weeks in advance so that they are ready for viewing once the election results have been announced. For example, Eddie Collins' plaque is 90% completed, while Smokey Joe's and Pop's are 50% done...
... and thank you for the team cap results!
I have to say, great job with keeping up with this room John.
They should get an A's and Padres hat respectively, but I know Joe wants a Yank cap on Jackson (he's wrong, of course :-)."
I agree with Reggie as an A, but I think Winfield is clearly a Yankee. My first year as a fan was 1980 (my age 7 season), so I could have a definite perception bias there. But I think it's a close call, and his team success was with NY.
I hate to bring this up again, but . . . I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, don't like all the slashes. I think Honus should be a SS, etc.. I'd hate to see Cal Ripken, SS/3B, for example.
What's the overall senitment there? I say we keep it simple stupid w/regard to positions, the plaques (in my opinion) are a basic summary, not a comprehensive record. Is there overwhelming opinion to go the way we have been?
Just a thought.
What cap do you have in mind for Pop Lloyd?
To be honest, I'm not that crazy about the slashes after the primary positions anymore, too. For the Stoveys and O'Rourkes? That makes sense, but the rest I'm not so sure. But if the electorate decides otherwise, I'll leave it this way. I'm not that concerned about it either way.
Chris:
I'm looking at the New York Lincoln Giants for Lloyd, but that's not definite yet. What do you think, Chris?
I agree with Reggie as an A, but I think Winfield is clearly a Yankee. My first year as a fan was 1980 (my age 7 season), so I could have a definite perception bias there. But I think it's a close call, and his team success was with NY.
Winfield is a much different case than Reggie. I think it's close between the Padres and Yankees. That will be a tough call in a couple of years, IMO.
As for the positions, the full positional breakdown could be listed down in the text of the plaque, or on some line at the bottom. We already have some sort of service-time calculation sneaking in. That way we'd keep all that information but would have a clean Cal Ripken - SS title to the plaque.
The difference between Speaker's top two teams in terms of value is much greater than Winfield's, karlmagnus, IMO. BTW, your bias is showing. :-D
With that said, I lean toward a Yankee cap for him at this point though.
As for the positions, the full positional breakdown could be listed down in the text of the plaque, or on some line at the bottom. We already have some sort of service-time calculation sneaking in. That way we'd keep all that information but would have a clean Cal Ripken - SS title to the plaque.
That works for me, David. The info gets out, but the plaques are now a might purtier. :-)
If a player has twice as many games at one position as any other, only list the main one, unless the secondary one (or the third one, too) is at least 500 G. But your mileage may vary, and that's not quite good enough to be an inflexible rule.
I hadn't looked at Lloyd's teams when I asked the question, but now having taken a glance, I think you have it right with the New York Lincoln Giants. He played more seasons with them than with anyone else, about half of his peak seasons were with them.
I assume Joe Williams goes in as a Lincoln Giant?
You assume correctly, Chris. :-)
Retired with the ML career records for
BA (.366), hits (4,191)
shouldn't it be
BA (.366), hits (4,189)
or
BA (.367), hits (4,191)
you can't have it both ways
Wow, the perspicacity of the 1934-35 voter is quite impressive.
You can tell if we're sweating on your computer?!? :-)
I assume you were making a joke about us discussing a player that won't be born for another 16-17 years, but I'm not 100% sure. So from context my guess is that perspicacity = psychic ability.
If you were serious about Winfield being a HoMer, I think he'll be an easy electee, easily first ballot unless his competition is 1934ian . . .
of acute mental vision or discernment
per·spi·ca·cious·ly adverb
per·spi·ca·cious·ness noun
per·spi·cac·i·ty - noun
Synonym analysis as shrewd:
ASTUTE mean acute in perception and sound in judgment. SHREWD stresses practical, hardheaded cleverness and judgment <a >. SAGACIOUS suggests wisdom, penetration, and farsightedness <sagacious investors got in on the ground floor>. PERSPICACIOUS implies unusual power to see through and understand what is puzzling or hidden <a >. ASTUTE suggests shrewdness, perspicacity, and diplomatic skill <an astute player of party politics>.
----------------
This group has been half-decent at expanding my vocabulary. (The last word I had to look up was hoodwink)
Now corrected, Ken. Thanks!
1. Giants - 8 (Connor, GDavis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Ward)
2T. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, ESutton, GWright)
2T. Cubs - 7 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly, Sheckard)
4T. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
4T. Indians - 4 (Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Speaker)
4T. Phillies - 4 (Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
7T. Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
7T. Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
7T. Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
7T. Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
7T. Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, Young)
7T. Pirates - 2 (Clarke, Wagner)
7T. Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
7T. Tigers - 2 (Cobb, Crawford)
7T. White Sox - 2 (ECollins, Walsh)
16T.Cardinals - 1 (Caruthers)
16T.Chicago American Giants - 1 - (PHill)
16T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
16T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
16T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
16T.Dodgers - 1 (Wheat)
16T.New York Lincoln Giants - 1 (Lloyd)
16T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
16T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
16T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
16T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
16T.Reds - 1 (McPhee)
16T.Twins - 1 (WJohnson)
29T.Yankees - 0
It was a close one. BTW, any objections for a Phillies cap for "Alex the Great"? I think it's a fairly easy decision, but maybe somebody here objects.
Done!
just wondering why did you pick Chicago over phili?
Much more value as a ChiSox than with the A's. Plus, he played many more games in Chicago.
Not me... this isn't as close as Collins or Speaker in my opinion.
PHI - 190-91
CHI - 128-83
STL - 55-34
Plus his high K seasons and top two ERA+ are in Philly.
You have Caruthers listed as a Cardinal, but isn't he wearing a Browns cap in the plaque room?
Thanks for keeping the tally updated!
It's the same franchise, favre. The Browns moved to the NL after the AA broke up.
You have Caruthers listed as a Cardinal, but isn't he wearing a Browns cap in the plaque room?
Thanks for keeping the tally updated!
Its a franchise tally in keeping with the tradition that was started before I took over. Caruthers played for the franchise that became today's Cardinals. Wallace has a Brown's cap as well, but he's listed as "Oriole"... which also necessitates a separate entry for the old NL Orioles. There are several Boston Red Stockings in the HOM as well, but they get collected with the Beaneaters and the Braves.
It's the same franchise, favre. The Browns moved to the NL after the AA broke up."
Ahhhhh...thanks for clearing that up.
The Browns nickname was picked up by the new AL team a year or two later. (A pattern in the new league, see White Sox, A's, Orioles, and Red Sox - instant tradition?)
I guess Cleveland said the heck with that. :-)
The AA lost the war with the NL. No question about it, last AA season was in 1891 and the NL is still playing now.
But... Of the 14 teams playing in 1882 (first year of the AA), 5 of the 6 AA teams were still around in 1892 while only 2 of the 8 NL teams were left (Boston and Chicago); the AA Philly A's were also still viable, but the NL Phillies wanted no competition after the merger. The 12 team NL consisted of 4 teams with NL roots and 8 teams with AA roots. Contraction in 1900 eliminated 4 of the former AA teams, but the AA lives on today in the Reds, Cardinals, Pirates, and Dodgers.
Damn, those Yankees just don't have any luck. I really hope something changes for that franchise....
So, I guess Gary Carter would get a Washington hat then, right?
Montreal cap for his plaque, but he'll be included on the Washington franchise list.
Post 1935 seems like a good time to bring this up.
There is an interesting section in the preface of Tofel's book on the 1939 Yankees "Legend in the Making". On opening day 1936, the Yankees were a solid franchise with 4 WS titles in the previous 13 seasons, but that level of dominance was not truly historic. The Red Sox had won four in the 10s. The A's had one three in the 10s and two in the 29-30. Even the Cardinals had won three pennants in the last 10 years. The Yankees under Ruth were good, but they were not yet the *Yankees*.
Anyhow, if this young kid from from the Bay Area pans out and any injuries hit the two-time pennant winning Tigers, the Yankees might really start a run here. :-)
I think this understates the Yankee accomplishment in the 1920's and the regard in which the franchise was held at the time. Back then, pennants were the metric, not "Championships", which has replaced it now that noone is certain about what a "pennant" is. And Ruth's Yankees won 6 pennants in 8 years (though only 3 championships), which was unprecedented (unless one counted the NA and Wright's Red Stockings winning 6 in 7). Previous great teams had done clusters of 4 or 5 (Anson's White Stockings, Comiskey's Browns, Selee's Beaneaters, Hanlon's Orioles/Superbas, Chance's Cubs, Mack's A's, McGraw's Giants), but none had won 6 in that short a time.
1936 Franchise Cap Standings
1. Giants - 8 (Connor, GDavis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Ward)
2T. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, ESutton, GWright)
2T. Cubs - 7 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly, Sheckard)
4. Phillies - 5 (Alexander, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
5T. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
5T. Indians - 4 (Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Speaker)
7T. Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
7T. Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
7T. Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
7T. Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
7T. Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, CYoung)
7T. New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
7T. Pirates - 2 (Clarke, Wagner)
7T. Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
7T. Tigers - 2 (Cobb, Crawford)
7T. White Sox - 2 (ECollins, Walsh)
17T.Cardinals - 1 (Caruthers)
17T.Chicago American Giants - 1 - (PHill)
17T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
17T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
17T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
17T.Dodgers - 1 (Wheat)
17T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
17T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
17T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
17T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
17T.Reds - 1 (McPhee)
17T.Twins - 1 (WJohnson)
29T.Yankees - 0
1. Giants - 8 (Connor, GDavis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Ward)
2T. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, ESutton, GWright)
2T. Cubs - 7 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly, Sheckard)
4. Phillies - 5 (Alexander, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
5T. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
5T. Indians - 4 (Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Speaker)
7. Tigers - 3 (Cobb, Crawford, Heilmann)
8T. Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
8T. Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
8T. Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
8T. Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
8T.Chicago American Giants - 2 - (PHill, Torriente)
8T. Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, CYoung)
8T. New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
8T. Pirates - 2 (Clarke, Wagner)
8T. Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
8T. White Sox - 2 (ECollins, Walsh)
18T.Cardinals - 1 (Caruthers)
18T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
18T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
18T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
18T.Dodgers - 1 (Wheat)
18T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
18T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
18T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
18T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
18T.Reds - 1 (McPhee)
18T.Twins - 1 (WJohnson)
29T.Yankees - 0
1. Giants - 8 (Connor, GDavis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Ward)
2T. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, ESutton, GWright)
2T. Cubs - 7 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly, Sheckard)
4T. Indians - 5 (Coveleski, Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Speaker)
4T. Phillies - 5 (Alexander, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
6. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
7. Tigers - 3 (Cobb, Crawford, Heilmann)
8T. Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
8T. Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
8T. Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
8T. Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
8T. Chicago American Giants - 2 - (PHill, Torriente)
8T. Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, CYoung)
8T. New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
8T. Pirates - 2 (Clarke, Wagner)
8T. Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
8T. Reds - 1 (Groh, McPhee)
8T. White Sox - 2 (ECollins, Walsh)
19T.Cardinals - 1 (Caruthers)
19T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
19T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
19T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
19T.Dodgers - 1 (Wheat)
19T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
19T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
19T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
19T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
19T.Twins - 1 (WJohnson)
29T.Yankees - 0
1939 Franchise Cap Standings
1. Giants - 8 (Connor, GDavis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Ward)
2T. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, ESutton, GWright)
2T. Cubs - 7 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly, Sheckard)
4T. Indians - 5 (Coveleski, Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Speaker)
4T. Phillies - 5 (Alexander, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
6. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
7T. Pirates - 3 (Carey, Clarke, Wagner)
7T. Tigers - 3 (Cobb, Crawford, Heilmann)
7T. White Sox - 3 (ECollins, Faber, Walsh)
10T.Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
10T.Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
10T.Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
10T.Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
10T.Chicago American Giants - 2 - (PHill, Torriente)
10T.Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, CYoung)
10T.New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
10T.Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
10T.Reds - 1 (Groh, McPhee)
19T.Cardinals - 1 (Caruthers)
19T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
19T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
19T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
19T.Dodgers - 1 (Wheat)
19T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
19T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
19T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
19T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
19T.Twins - 1 (WJohnson)
29T.Yankees - 0
I'd think Barnes, McVey, Spalding, and Wright should be listed as Red Stockings. Of those guys, only Wright played for the 1876 Braves.
O'Rourke could be a Brave, a Giant, or a Red Stocking.
I'd think Barnes, McVey, Spalding, and Wright should be listed as Red Stockings. Of those guys, only Wright played for the 1876 Braves.
If you look at the individual plaques, Barnes, McVey, Spalding & GWright have Red Stockings (NA) caps while O'Rourke has a Red Caps (NL) cap.
The decision to maintain continuity for the Boston club between the NA & NL in the franchise standings was made before I took over.
Four big names did jump from Boston to Chicago when the NL started but the rest of the Boston team and its manager remained intact. Its a fair point, though.
Posted by JoeDimino on June 02, 2003 at 05:12 PM (#513790)
Team standings through 1901 (current teams if still active):
Braves 4 (White, Barnes, O'Rourke, Wright)
Cubs 3 (Gore, Kelly, Clarkson)
Giants 2 (Ward, Keefe)
Providence Grays 1 (Hines)
Amazing that 3 of the teams that survive to this day have 9 of the first 10 HoMers, and 7 primarily played for the only two teams that survived the first year of the NL. I consider the Boston NA team that turned into the Red Caps all a part of the modern Braves lineage.
But I don't know why. . .am I wrong in thinking there's no technical relation between the Red Caps/Braves of the NL and the Red Stockings?
There is some player overlap, of course:
Red Stockings 1875 and Red Caps 1876:
H. Wright (managed both teams)
G. Wright
J. O'Rourke
Andy Leonard
Jack Manning
Harry Schaffer
Red Stockings 1875 and White Stockings 1876:
R. Barnes
A. Spalding (managed White Stockings)
C. McVey
D. White
The "Cubs" and "Braves" were the only two to make it out of the 1870s, though.
Nevermind then. . .
Thanks John.
We've been staying away from things like that since he was in the minor leagues at the time, Cblau. Interesting piece of trivia, nevertheless.
1940 Franchise Cap Standings
1. Giants - 8 (Connor, GDavis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Ward)
2T. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, ESutton, GWright)
2T. Cubs - 7 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly, Sheckard)
4T. Indians - 5 (Coveleski, Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Speaker)
4T. Phillies - 5 (Alexander, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
6. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
7T. Pirates - 3 (Carey, Clarke, Wagner)
7T. Tigers - 3 (Cobb, Crawford, Heilmann)
7T. White Sox - 3 (ECollins, Faber, Walsh)
10T.Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
10T.Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
10T.Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
10T.Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
10T.Chicago American Giants - 2 - (PHill, Torriente)
10T.Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, CYoung)
10T.New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
10T.Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
10T.Reds - 1 (Groh, McPhee)
19T.Cardinals - 1 (Caruthers)
19T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
19T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
19T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
19T.Dodgers - 1 (Wheat)
19T.Kansas City Monarchs - 1 (Rogan)
19T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
19T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
19T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
19T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
19T.Saint Louis Brown Stockings (NA/NL) - 1 (Pike)
19T.Twins - 1 (WJohnson)
29T.Yankees - 0
According to Holway, Charleston led the West, while Oms led the East.
Did you mean as a left hander? Or was this some kind of unusual defensive strategy?
1941 Franchise Cap Standings
1. Giants - 8 (Connor, GDavis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Ward)
2T. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, ESutton, GWright)
2T. Cubs - 7 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly, Sheckard)
4T. Indians - 5 (Coveleski, Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Speaker)
4T. Phillies - 5 (Alexander, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
6. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
7T. Pirates - 3 (Carey, Clarke, Wagner)
7T. Tigers - 3 (Cobb, Crawford, Heilmann)
7T. White Sox - 3 (ECollins, Faber, Walsh)
10T.Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
10T.Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
10T.Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
10T.Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
10T.Cardinals - 2 (Caruthers, Hornsby)
10T.Chicago American Giants - 2 - (PHill, Torriente)
10T.Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, CYoung)
10T.New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
10T.Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
10T.Reds - 2 (Groh, McPhee)
20T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
20T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
20T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
20T.Dodgers - 1 (Wheat)
20T.Kansas City Monarchs - 1 (Rogan)
20T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
20T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
20T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
20T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
20T.Saint Louis Brown Stockings (NA/NL) - 1 (Pike)
20T.Twins - 1 (WJohnson)
20T.Yankees - 1 (Ruth)
Excuse me if I have overlooked the obvious.
David Foss includes 1940 (#61, #66).
I don't find a 1940 plaque for Pike or Rogan (top), although the exchange between yest and John Murphy seems to be about Rogan's plaque.
# Posted by yest on December 07, 2004 at 12:27 AM (#1002416)
I thought Rogan led the NL in HRs in 1922
# Posted by John (Don't Call Me Grandma) Murphy on December 07, 2004 at 12:47 AM (#1002467)
> I thought Rogan led the NL in HRs in 1922
According to Holway, Charleston led the West, while Oms led the East.
I think yest and John Murphy are talking about Rogan's plaque, but
Paul, check underneath Cal McVey's plaque and the first post on this thread. :-D
I don't think I ever got an answer to my question (# 64) about Lip Pike's plaque, "Pike played almost every position (including in the infield as a leftfielder!)" Did you mean to say "left hander"?
Yup. I made a typo there. Sorry about not getting back to you, Brent. I must have missed it.
That explains no hit for a "1940" plaque.
So I must Scroll instead of Search.
blech
--
This is not for Sherry's plaque, but Marc needs to know and it may interest others.
New York Times, 1911 Jan 15, "Winter Baseball Gossip"
"Sherwood Magee has signed to play basketball with a Buffalo team." Phillie manager Dooin recently set a rule against playing basketball.
So I must Scroll instead of Search.
blech
I had to split the Hall of Merit up because there is only so many characters that will fit on the heading part of a thread. I assume sometime in the future that I will have to create another section due to the same problem.
The silver lining: My own complaint inspired me to learn that I can go to the bottom of the header or bottom of the page by search for 'factory'.
I suppose there is no way to visit the last page of a thread in one step rather than three (open the thread, go to one of the "pages" links, go to the last page). If I'm wrong, please tell me about it.
or Red Dooin's rule against basketball?
Washington Post, 1907 Dec 23
Phil Lewis, Brooklyn SS, signed to play hockey with Pittsburgh. Manager Donovan ruled against hockey and will probably replace Lewis for his violation. [Rather, Lewis played his way out of the majors in 1908.] Worse for Lewis, he was not good enough to keep the hockey job.
I will be grateful for notification (private email is fine) if you know of other pre-WWI MLB players who signed to play another sport.
(I promise no more than one per sport in this inappropriate venue)
Chicago Tribune, 1900 Jul 21
Ned Garvin hopes to box lightweight champion Terry McGovern professionally --at least, for paid admission. His baseball teammate "Clark Griffith, manager for Garvin" asked a venue manager to arrange the bout, offering $500 bond on Garvin's appearance plus a $500 wager that he would survive six rounds.
[One paragraph of the article reprints Griffith's letter. This and other articles on the episode probably reveal more about Griffith than Garvin.]
I suppose there is no way to visit the last page of a thread in one step rather than three (open the thread, go to one of the "pages" links, go to the last page). If I'm wrong, please tell me about it.
From the Hot Topics list I look for the number of the latest entry (for example, 378), and holding the cursor over the link find the number for the thread (for example, 16758) and then go up to the browser's address line and edit the last few digits (for example, .../hom_discussion/16758/P300). It means typing a few keystrokes, but with a slow connection it's certainly faster than having to open the first page of the thread and then click on the link for the last one.
I decided to create another link right before the new plaques, so that should make it easier to spot.
1942 Franchise Cap Standings
1. Giants - 9 (Connor, GDavis, Ewing, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Rusie, Terry, Ward)
2T. Braves - 7 (Barnes, McVey, Nichols, O'Rourke, Spalding, ESutton, GWright)
2T. Cubs - 7 (Anson, TFBrown, Clarkson, Dahlen, Gore, KKelly, Sheckard)
4T. Indians - 5 (Coveleski, Flick, JJackson, Lajoie, Speaker)
4T. Phillies - 5 (Alexander, Delahanty, Hamilton, Magee, Thompson)
6. Buffalo Bisons - 4 (Brouthers, Galvin, Richardson, DWhite)
7T. Pirates - 3 (Carey, Clarke, Wagner)
7T. Tigers - 3 (Cobb, Crawford, Heilmann)
7T. White Sox - 3 (ECollins, Faber, Walsh)
10T.Athletics - 2 (FBaker, Plank)
10T.Baltimore Orioles (NL) - 2 (Keeler, Kelley)
10T.Brooklyn Atlantics - 2 (Pearce, Start)
10T.Brooklyn Royal Giants - 2 (HRJohnson, Santop)
10T.Cardinals - 2 (Caruthers, Hornsby)
10T.Chicago American Giants - 2 - (PHill, Torriente)
10T.Cleveland Spiders - 2 (Burkett, CYoung)
10T.Dodgers - 2 (Vance, Wheat)
10T.New York Lincoln Giants - 2 (Lloyd, SJWilliams)
10T.Providence Grays - 2 (Hines, Radbourne)
10T.Reds - 2 (Groh, McPhee)
21T.Cleveland Blues - 1 (Glasscock)
21T.Cuban Giants - 1 (FGrant)
21T.Detroit Wolverines - 1 (Bennett)
21T.Kansas City Monarchs - 1 (Rogan)
21T.Orioles - 1 (Wallace)
21T.Philadelphia Athletics (AA) - 1 (Stovey)
21T.Philadelphia Giants - 1 (RFoster)
21T.Red Sox - 1 (JCollins)
21T.Saint Louis Brown Stockings (NA/NL) - 1 (Pike)
21T.Twins - 1 (WJohnson)
21T.Yankees - 1 (Ruth)
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