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1. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: August 15, 2007 at 01:52 PM (#2485698)Enjoy...
Carlos, aka ChadBradfordWannabe
terrific article, Carlos, as always. Truth be told, when I first saw Joba, what jumped out to me was how smooth he looked even when throwing such nasty stuff. And I think you're right about Hughes going back to the lower arm slot since coming back from the DL - his fastball has had more tailing movement than in his first couple of starts.
I went back and checked it. He is a little lower and as you point out, it seems like he has more tailing action to it right now. Still too slow and tall for my liking though. I will say this, again. He repeats his mechanics SO well.
Truth be told, when I first saw Joba, what jumped out to me was how smooth he looked even when throwing such nasty stuff.
That was kinda what I thought too. It was like, "wait a sec, this isn't the same guy as last year." Which, BTW, is the same thing I said about Phil Hughes ('06 vs. '07)
I very much like that you reach back in time to reprint predictions that don't make you look good.
Humbling, but hey, I said it, so no use hiding from it. Thanks for the props.
Just so you know, this article has been linked at replacementlevel.com, and there are a few comments there as well.
I also have a question. Joba has been playing pro-ball for a year now, and one of the reasons his stock has risen so quickly is because of the change in his mechanics from when he was drafted, right? Is this drastic of a change, happening this quickly, with such dramatic effects unusual? And a more general question, how does a coach look at a pitcher and figure out which mechanics work for him?
Keith, what's the deal Buccholz over Hughes?
I've only gotten to see one of Hughes's starts, the no-hitter. He only threw about 4 changeups in that game, but 3 of them were to Teixeira and left him looking silly. Definitely looked like an above-average pitch there.
Calls 'em as I sees 'em. Thanks though. BTW, to everyone here, Keith Law and Rob Neyer are the main reason friggin ESPN Insider got my money...bastards...glad I did though.
Is this drastic of a change, happening this quickly, with such dramatic effects unusual?
My best examples come from my students, and there is one in particular who I'm proudest of. I got this lefty as a student (16 years old) who came to me May 15th, throwing 69-71. He's now comfortably 78-79 mph, topped at 83. With him, it was a MAJOR tempo change that led to it. Another one, 12-year old kid...started 60-61... same kinda changes (tempo, direction and a few other things) now comfortably 66-67, topping at 69. He JUST turned 12, by the way. At the MLB level, I'd think that the effects wouldn't be AS dramatic (because they already do MOST things well), but they are real. I'm not trying to sell an instructional video here, I'm just documenting some of the more major ones.
And a more general question, how does a coach look at a pitcher and figure out which mechanics work for him?
Tough question to answer cuz I don't know the particular coach's expertise. My approach is the video approach. I don't care who you are, an extra pair of eyes (the camera) that is objective can tell you a LOT more than what human eyes can capture. Then try to match up the pitcher with someone with similar mechanics and try to implement changes within the framework of my general philosophy.
Yup, you are right. In my opinion, if you keep your body moving through the "balance point," then it is easier to maintain momentum throughout instead of coming up with some other way of engaging your body after you've gathered yourself up there. Plus, I also think it leads to longer strides since, in a way, since your butt/hips are gaining ground forward as the leg goes up. There's more to it, but, that's the general idea.
However, all that said.....
but one thing that we really agree on is that it's critical for a pitcher to move quickly once he starts for the plate. Guys who hesitate as they're coming forward or as they're landing sacrifice both velocity and command. And I don't think that's a hard fix. It's not like changing someone's arm action, for example.
Strongly agree. Strongly agree. Strongly agree. As much as I prefer "drifting through the balance point," a pitcher can make up for it if there is no hesitation and moves quickly on their move down.
Keith isn't a pitching coach and he understands this better than most pitching coaches, by the way.
Question for Keith Law on Post #8:
you mentioned "Hughes throws a little harder, but not much, and both have fastball command issues to work on - extremely common in young pitchers. "
I beg to differ with you on that.. I believe that Hughes has outstanding fastball command... some of the best I've seen in the past few years at the AA level. I believe his outstanding command is the key to his success as his fastball is straighter than one would like and he is still working on his changeup (like you mentioned later in the post Hughes only has the curveball as a secondary pitch).
Having to pick between Chamberlain and Hughes?? Chamberlain has better stuff... Hughes has better command...
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20070813-9999-1s13minors.html
I'm not happy that he's hurt, but maybe someone will listen now...
LTR-FTP, I think Hughes has outstanding command, but not fastball command, at least not in games where I've seen him. As I said, it's common in young pitchers, and I don't see any reason why his won't improve. In fact, I think it will improve, because his arm's path is short and he repeats his delivery extremely well.
One difference between Chamberlain and Hughes I noticed is how they move their left leg. Chamberlain drops his down and then forward. Hughes moves more diagonally to his landing point. Do you have a preference? Is this part of pitcher's mechanics material?
Also, I've been asking you to do this for a while now, and saw you saying in another thread that you would have like to to a piece on Peavy... is that still in your mind? I would love to read it. Thanks again. Keep up the good work.
One difference between Chamberlain and Hughes I noticed is how they move their left leg. Chamberlain drops his down and then forward. Hughes moves more diagonally to his landing point. Do you have a preference? Is this part of pitcher's mechanics material?
I went and checked it out more and don't see as much difference as you. To me it looks like Joba goes up, then down with the leg at around a 90 degree angle and as his hips move forward it goes around into footplant. Hughes has a similar move, just slower because his tempo is lower and he seems to hesitate at the top.
that I have learned more from you than any of the coaches I've had over here and actually gained 5 mph's on my FB by not standing over the rubber like I used to.
That about makes my day. BTW, did you see the Edwar Ramirez one with the overlays? When I do the Peavy article, it'll be a megaarticle with an overlay of his sinker/slider combo. Right now, my board of projects looks like this:
Zito, Draft Review article, Nolan Ryan/Bob Gibson, Peavy....others....
They're using him out of the bullpen this year because they could use the help.
And he was nearing his innings cap anyway.
Keep up your great work!
That's very enlightened of you, to compare a white pitcher to a black pitcher.
Wait, what?
Joba is black? He's Native American.
Mussina isn't even close to Hughes.
Lincecum reminds me of Don Sutton with his arm and glove action as well as the sweeping leg. Yovani Gallardo is similar to Lincecum as well, minus the reverse rotation and stride. They both have the same arm slot. CBW can you do a side-by-side of Lincecum and Gallardo?
This is quite interesting. The MLBEA is being held currently in Europe (duh, EA stands for European Academy!) and I've had a chance to talk to the coaches. Bruce Hurst is acting as the pitching coach. When I asked him what they try to do in their month or so (I assumed they couldn't do much) he replied that they don't really try to revolutionize pitchers' approaches because that could screw them up. Keep in mind we're talking about teenagers, ranging from 15 to 19, so they're very raw, but they have some talent.
Hurst continued and said that what they really try to do is to make their deliveries smoother. They don't have time to take a look at arm actions, so they just try to get pitchers to stay focused and throw to the plate, channelling their momentum going forward. He said that if you have a smooth delivery once you start your motion, that's going to give you healthy mechanics because you're not "ripping" with your movement as much and chances are that most things will just fall into place. He was conceding that momentum isn't all there is to pitching, but it's the most important thing. He didn't care at all about how fast a pitcher moved, as long as he didn't stop or slow down at any point before release, and he tried to prevent guys from falling toward first or third, but carrying their weight forward and getting behind the pitch.
They're only staying here one month per year and that's all they can do. They did get a couple of guys cracking the 90's and most of them threw in the upper 80's. Of course they kept the younger ones away from breaking balls, but they managed to get this talented 16 year old to throw in the 90's, and apparently he's getting signed by an MLB organization later this year (I haven't been tipped on which team it is, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it's the Reds or Mariners, who have been very active here). The EA has produced 11 guys who have already signed (the most advanced are a couple of friends of mine in A, but they only signed last year), and 4 or 5 more will sign this year. I really wish there could be more talk about the growth of European talent because this is virgin territory, and even though it's nowhere like the Caribbean, it could really provide a new and fresh pool of talent. Plus the real problem here is that players just don't play enough to nurture their talent. You get really talented and nice players who happen to have huge holes in their game in the long term because of the lack of play and training from good coaches, which is a shame.
I hope there will be more noise about this. In the meantime we're left hoping that Balentien, Jurrjens and even VandenHurk (and of course all the like) look at least presentable, which will encourage investments I guess.
FWIW the best product that has been at the academy so far is Alessandro Maestri, 22 years old, RHP closing for the Peoria Chiefs (Cubs A). He's been amazing as a reliever (especially with runners on, thanks to his DP-inducing sinker) and had 4 poor starts. Really hard sinker, good slider and touching mid-90's on the 4-seam fastball. Some platoon issues. Last year, he threw at 88-89. And you can see the damage of not playing: both last year and this year he had absolutely amazing starts and then came a little down to Earth when fatigue set in. One year in the US did him better than the rest of his life...
Zito, Draft Review article, Nolan Ryan/Bob Gibson, Peavy....others....
Yes, yes I did saw the Ramirez article; can't wait to see all the others you have in mind, as I said before I have learned a lot just by reading your material.
Good luck on someone noticing soon!.
excellent post and thank you for the information.
Peavy's #1 fan--
you said you're pitching in mexico? Can I get your name (you can do it through e-mail if you'd like) so that I can track your progress (assuming I can find stats?)
Mash--
Thanks. Ya know when I look at Chris Ray, I would've thought that he was due more for shoulder troubles than elbow issues. Ray has "messy" mechanics, although I certainly like his quick tempo. That said, he does put on the brakes on his arm quickly (quick deceleration is not good in my book) and he doesn't seem to pronate very well either. If you look at his arm after release, even his hand shows a supinated look (thumb up instead of thumb down). I wonder if that had anything to do with it.
Ya know how if you're using a hammer and you miss the nail, the elbow "locks out" and you get pain in the UCL? If you don't pronate properly you don't protect the elbow from locking out...that would be my guess as to Ray's trouble.
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