BBTF's Notes in a Minor Key Discussion

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1. Champions Table Posted: August 13, 2010 at 06:57 PM (#3615797)

Are there any minimum-distance requirements for minor-league teams? That is, does a minor league team have to be X miles away from the nearest MLB team?

I'll hang up and listen.

2. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 13, 2010 at 07:12 PM (#3615820)

Are there any minimum-distance requirements for minor-league teams? That is, does a minor league team have to be X miles away from the nearest MLB team?

Yes, Major League Rule 52 covers this. Basically, a minor-league team cannot operate any closer than 15 miles from the boundary of a major league territory without the MLB club's permission.

-- MWE

3. Gamingboy Posted: August 13, 2010 at 07:19 PM (#3615825)

Yes, Major League Rule 52 covers this. Basically, a minor-league team cannot operate any closer than 15 miles from the boundary of a major league territory without the MLB club's permission.

I presume that the "MLB Club Permission" thing is why there are teams in Staten Island and Brooklyn?

4. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 13, 2010 at 07:20 PM (#3615827)

I've always wanted to see the Royals have more of a presence in Oklahoma. I love our affiliation with Omaha, but if they had moved (as they threatened to do without a new stadium), I would have jumped on board OKC.

5. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: August 13, 2010 at 07:21 PM (#3615828)

There are, but exceptions can be made.
For example, the Yanks have an affiliate in Staten Island, the Mets have Brooklyn...
More generally, MLB teams have non-compete territories (it's why you don't have a third team in NY and why the Nats have to give the O's TV money) that apply to both the bigs and minors (waivers can be granted, as in the above examples). Similarly, minor league teams have territories as well (for instance, I live in Durham, which has a team. Accordingly, nearby Raleigh couldn't get a park when a team was moving there, it's located a bit outside of the city (Zebulon), just outside the territorial border).
As to the minimum distance itself, I don't remember offhand. You can find this stuff online (it's rule 52, just like the ammy draft is rule 4, the one of marginal guys held in December is rule 5, etc...) - soxprospect's wiki has it, among other places.

***

If the Rangers move to Round Rock, I have to think the Astros will take Oklahoma City.

6. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: August 13, 2010 at 07:23 PM (#3615830)

Not only was I late on the question, I even semi-anticipated AG#1F's comment. Sigh...

One other note on territories: it's the reason why the Atlantic League (the most successful indy league at the gate) has done so well - they've got a few good markets that can't get teams. They're even thinking of adding a team in suburban Houston, iirc - though it's waaaay outside their footprint.

7. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 13, 2010 at 07:34 PM (#3615838)

Marlins have extended their PDC with New Orleans, but just for two years.

If the Rangers move to Round Rock, I have to think the Astros will take Oklahoma City.

Almost certainly.

-- MWE

8. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 13, 2010 at 07:38 PM (#3615842)

I presume that the "MLB Club Permission" thing is why there are teams in Staten Island and Brooklyn?

Yes, and their respective affiliations are no accident.

-- MWE

9. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 13, 2010 at 07:39 PM (#3615843)

San Francisco extended with Fresno through 2012 as well.

-- MWE

10. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 13, 2010 at 07:42 PM (#3615844)

They're even thinking of adding a team in suburban Houston, iirc - though it's waaaay outside their footprint.

See this link.

-- MWE

11. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 14, 2010 at 01:19 AM (#3616115)

Any chance Texas moves its AA affiliate from Frisco to Corpus Christi (also owned by Ryan)?

12. Gamingboy Posted: August 14, 2010 at 01:20 AM (#3616116)

Oh, Rochester reupped with Minnesota until 2012.

13. Lassus Posted: August 14, 2010 at 02:36 AM (#3616183)

I know the chances of a single-A team returning to Utica are about zero (#### you twice, Ripkin), but this has to be the place to at least mention the hope.

14. TerpNats Posted: August 14, 2010 at 04:10 AM (#3616247)

I don't mind the Nats having a presence in Richmond -- but I would require not only that a new ballpark be built, but they drop that godawful Flying Squirrels name. Leave the kitsch to Albuquerque.

BTW, expect the Nats and Syracuse to continue their AAA agreement, though I'm not sure whether it will be for two years or four.

15. Tricky Dick Posted: August 15, 2010 at 02:39 AM (#3616670)

Any chance Texas moves its AA affiliate from Frisco to Corpus Christi (also owned by Ryan)?

The Astros agreement with Corpus Christi goes through 2012. The speculation I've read is that the affiliation is likely to continue. Frisco is close to the Dallas-For Worth area, with a lot of Rangers' fans nearby, and it doesn't seem like the Rangers would want to give that affiliation up.

16. I Left Tim Raines Down In Africa Posted: August 15, 2010 at 10:39 PM (#3616980)

I've gotta say that I wouldn't at all be heartbroken to see the Sox leave Charlotte. There is no tie whatsoever with the local community and the Sox, and the only real advantage is proximity to the A and high-A clubs in Kannapolis and Winston-Salem. The Nats would have been a perfect choice to bust into the Charlotte market, but if they're going back to Syracuse, well...that leaves what, the Blue Jays (if they move east and the Sox go into the PCL again) and what, exactly?

17. plim Posted: August 17, 2010 at 03:46 PM (#3618214)

so is the real purpose of rule 52 to ensure that, say, the red sox don't start a minor league affiliate in yonkers, or the yankees don't have a minor league affiliate in cambridge? e.g. the home team will almost automatically grant their own minor league affiliate the exception...

that said, for someone who doesn't follow this stuff, can you explain what happens when a pdc doesn't get renewed? is this how the trenton thunder used to be the sox' AA team and is now the yankees AA team?

so when that happens...all the sox personnel, equipment, etc move to another team/city and then the yankees move in...so all you "inherit" is the stadium and locale? but the team remains intact...so their sox division titles are still property of the thunder, even though the following year, the yankees could win the division?

it just seems weird that one day, you see ryan kalish and the next day you see andrew brackman...

18. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 17, 2010 at 03:57 PM (#3618228)

The Astros agreement with Corpus Christi goes through 2012. The speculation I've read is that the affiliation is likely to continue. Frisco is close to the Dallas-For Worth area, with a lot of Rangers' fans nearby, and it doesn't seem like the Rangers would want to give that affiliation up.

The Rangers might not want to give up Frisco, but wouldn't Ryan then have access to inside information about Houston's AA prospects at Corpus? Might the Astros be the instigators to terminate the affiliation?

Or is it not that uncommon for a major league team owner to also own a minor league team of another franchise and I'm just reading too much into it?

19. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: August 17, 2010 at 04:34 PM (#3618271)

so is the real purpose of rule 52 to ensure that, say, the red sox don't start a minor league affiliate in yonkers, or the yankees don't have a minor league affiliate in cambridge?
So you don't have your market cannibalized, yes. The Brooklyn/Staten Island things are relatively new - the teams were getting competition from indy ball - this lets them do the market segmentation (also gives guys a place to play rehab ball that's close to the big league team during the 2nd half of the year). Some teams still prefer not to have the competition...

that said, for someone who doesn't follow this stuff, can you explain what happens when a pdc doesn't get renewed? is this how the trenton thunder used to be the sox' AA team and is now the yankees AA team?
You described it correctly. Note: a few teams own some of their affiliates (the Braves are a notable example) - but this diminishes the big league club's leverage a bit for things like getting stadium improvements, etc...

20. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 23, 2010 at 09:36 PM (#3623891)

Mudcats renew for two years with the Reds. I am officially unhappy - I was hoping that another organization might get in here.

-- MWE

21. I Left Tim Raines Down In Africa Posted: August 24, 2010 at 06:13 PM (#3624518)

Mike, I realize it's all just empty conjecture now, but had the White Sox decided to jump to the PCL, would the Brewers have made sense as far as bringing their AA up to Zebulon (as Joe Davis is a hole) and their AAA from the PCL to the IL and Charlotte? That was the only logical conclusion I could draw, assuming the White Sox don't re-up down here.

22. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 28, 2010 at 03:28 AM (#3628383)

Missed this earlier in the week: Nationals, surprisingly, reup with Harrisburg through 2012, and also made the Syracuse renewal official.

-- MWE

23. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 28, 2010 at 03:30 AM (#3628385)

Marlins have extended with Jacksonville and Greensboro, each for two years.

-- MWE

24. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 28, 2010 at 03:32 AM (#3628387)

The Astros agreement with Corpus Christi goes through 2012.

It was just extended for four more years, through 2016.

-- MWE

25. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 28, 2010 at 03:34 AM (#3628389)

Mariners extend with Tacoma through 2014.

-- MWE

26. Tricky Dick Posted: August 29, 2010 at 02:16 AM (#3628947)

Astros extended contract with Corpus Christi Hooks AA team until 2014. I suppose that ends any speculation that Ryan's ownership of the Rangers would affect the Hooks' affiliation. No. 18, I can see your point about Ryan gaining access to information about the Astros' AA players. But, really, would he get information which is more useful than what he gets from the Rangers' scouts anyway? The Rangers' and Astros' AA and AAA teams play each other a lot, and I doubt that there is much they don't know about each other.

27. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 29, 2010 at 03:12 AM (#3628963)

Orioles end relationship with Bluefield. This was the longest working relationship between a parent club and a minor league franchise.

-- MWE

28. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 29, 2010 at 03:15 AM (#3628965)

Astros extended contract with Corpus Christi Hooks AA team until 2014.

This article says 2016.

-- MWE

29. base ball chick Posted: August 29, 2010 at 05:12 AM (#3628999)

mike,

tv and radio both said 2016. richard justice said 2016.

losing the austin market is a really serious blow for the astros. i don't know whether or not drayton tried to extend the contract even several years ago, but if he didn't it was too stupid for words. he's really lucky that nolan ryan already had frisco up and running or we would have lost corpus too.

there is no real astros market in oklahoma - it's completely rangers territory and it is bad BAD news

we can't really move to san antonio because they already have a AA team there and the owner has NO interest in selling.

the sugarland team is an indy team and it really isn't outside of houston except in name. it's 15 miles or so from the Box and it seems odd that the astros would choose to put their AAA franchise so close

30. OCF Posted: August 29, 2010 at 05:35 AM (#3629004)

there is no real astros market in oklahoma - it's completely rangers territory and it is bad BAD news

The passage of many decades does make a difference. I grew up in Oklahoma and the state (or at least the Tulsa half of it) was overwhelmingly Cardinals territory, reinforced both by a radio network and by the slant of the coverage in the Tulsa papers. As for the other parts of the state - I do remember that when Cesar Cedeno arrived in Houston, he was being called up from an OKC team. Yes, the Tulsa area was closer to Kansas City than St. Louis - but the Kansas City A's basically had no fans anywhere, and the Royals were starting from scratch. On the other hand, in football terms (after the Sooners, who always ranked first), the state's NFL allegiance belonged to the Cowboys. I could see how the Rangers could have gained influence over the long haul - but that happened long after I left the state.

31. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: August 29, 2010 at 06:11 AM (#3629009)

If the Rangers move to Round Rock, I have to think the Astros will take Oklahoma City.

Actually, the Brewers are very interested in OKC.

32. Dr. Vaux Posted: August 29, 2010 at 08:11 AM (#3629019)

When I lived in that area in the late '90s, Oklahoma, at least the northern part of it, was still Cardinals territory as far as I could tell. Of course, so is the western half of Missouri outside Kansas City itself.

33. Der-K's no Kliph Nesteroff. Posted: August 29, 2010 at 05:35 PM (#3629176)

Actually, the Brewers are very interested in OKC.
No doubt. But is OKC interested in them?

Harrisburg/DC surprises me a bit too - I thought they'd look into Richmond. OTOH, facilities matter...

Bluefield: I didn't know Baltimore was doing this, but it was always a little weird to me that they had 3 short-season clubs.

34. Mike Emeigh

Posted: August 30, 2010 at 01:31 AM (#3629439)

Bluefield: I didn't know Baltimore was doing this, but it was always a little weird to me that they had 3 short-season clubs.

The GCL Orioles are a fairly recent addition (2007), and I think that they were added with an eye toward ending the relationship with Bluefield.

Actually, the Brewers are very interested in OKC.

Likely to get away from the situation in Nashville.

-- MWE

35. Tricky Dick Posted: August 31, 2010 at 04:26 PM (#3630851)

This article says 2016.

yeah, I meant to type 2016.

36. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: August 31, 2010 at 11:08 PM (#3631176)

Likely to get away from the situation in Nashville.

Yeah, the Brewers are unhappy with both Nashville and Huntsville and it sounds unlikely that they'll renew with either.

No doubt. But is OKC interested in them?

Not sure, but there's some smoke there. At least enough to make it so Astros -> OKC isn't a slam dunk.

37. jwb Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:01 AM (#3632591)

Four more years in a new stadium for the Royals in Omaha.

38. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: September 07, 2010 at 03:56 PM (#3635061)

"Milwaukee, currently the parent club for Nashville, is expected to take over the vacant spot in Oklahoma City."

link

39. O Tempura, O Morays ('Spos) Posted: September 07, 2010 at 06:12 PM (#3635219)

Bluefield Jays?
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2010/09/07/jays-add-new-farm-club-in-west-virginia/

40. Der-K's no Kliph Nesteroff. Posted: September 16, 2010 at 01:48 AM (#3641598)

Milwaukee and Nashville renewed ties.

41. I Left Tim Raines Down In Africa Posted: September 16, 2010 at 09:42 PM (#3642294)

Huntsville and Milwaukee re-upped for two years, since that was all that was left.

Kinston and the Indians re-upped, the Braves are going to Lynchburg and the Reds will end up in Bakersfield, as that's all that's left.

42. Mike Emeigh

Posted: September 17, 2010 at 03:33 AM (#3642491)

Rangers are going to Round Rock for four years.

With the Blue Jays replacing the Orioles in Bluefield, they ended their relationship with Auburn in the NY-P League. The Nationals and Cardinals are reportedly looking at a working agreement with the Doubledays.

-- MWE

43. Mike Emeigh

Posted: September 17, 2010 at 03:37 AM (#3642493)

Mariners extended their working relationship with High Desert for two years.

-- MWE

44. Mike Emeigh

Posted: September 18, 2010 at 08:09 PM (#3643471)

Texas makes it official: Myrtle Beach will be their high-A affiliate for the next four years.

Seattle extended their working relationship with Clinton (MWL) for two years.

-- MWE

45. Mike Emeigh

Posted: September 18, 2010 at 08:17 PM (#3643476)

Phillies extend their working relationship with Reading through 2014.

-- MWE

46. Der-K's no Kliph Nesteroff. Posted: September 18, 2010 at 08:33 PM (#3643488)

Nitpicking: Wasn't the Auburn termination in order to move to Vancouver?

In other news, we might see an Inland Empire / Rancho Cucamonga swap.

47. Mike Emeigh

Posted: September 18, 2010 at 08:41 PM (#3643492)

Wasn't the Auburn termination in order to move to Vancouver?

Yeah, but the note I got said that it was done as a result of the move to Bluefield.

-- MWE

48. Mike Emeigh

Posted: September 21, 2010 at 10:52 PM (#3645387)

Nationals are moving from Vermont to Auburn in the NY-P.

-- MWE

49. O Tempura, O Morays ('Spos) Posted: September 21, 2010 at 11:26 PM (#3645419)

I have fond memories of the Vermont team, hope someone goes there.

50. Mike Emeigh

Posted: September 22, 2010 at 12:15 AM (#3645458)

Kane County changes over from the A's to the Royals for the next two years, which means that the Royals will no longer have two affiliates in towns named Burlington.

The Astros made their move to Oklahoma City official, signing a two-year agreement. Toronto extended its working relationship with Las Vegas for two years.

The Cardinals are going back to Batavia for two years. The group that runs the Rochester franchise has reportedly agreed to continue operating the Muckdogs as well, although they're still trying to sell the club. The Tri-City Valley Cats, coming off their first ever NYPL championship, re-upped with the Astros for two years.

-- MWE

51. jwb Posted: October 15, 2010 at 06:54 AM (#3664270)

I'm guessing the name isn't going to be the Escondido Beavers.

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