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Thursday, October 07, 2021

2021 LDS OMNICHATTER!

White Sox vs. Astros
Red Sox vs. Rays

Braves vs. Brewers
Dodgers vs. Giants

It’s on.

Scoreboards for the Major Leagues and all minor leagues,
courtesy of Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee).

Hombre Brotani Posted: October 07, 2021 at 12:35 AM | 882 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: omnichatter

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   1. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 07, 2021 at 01:48 AM (#6044382)
Interesting tidbit from the Wild Card games -

Starting pitchers: 17 IP, 6 ER (no outing longer than 5 1/3 innings)
Relief pitchers: 17.2 IP, 6 ER

So relievers were a bit better than starters despite four premier starters on one side and guys like T.J. McFarland and Hansel Robles on the other.
   2. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:55 AM (#6044388)
I wonder how many casual and non-fans are thinking, "OK, the Red Sox and the Dodgers won their playoff games...so they meet in the World Series tomorrow, right?"
   3. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:17 AM (#6044390)
I hope the Dodgers stomp the ever-loving #### out of the Giants. Never has a franchise benefitted so wildly from good fortune as the Giants of the last ten years or so. It would be nice to see the tables turned.
   4. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:21 AM (#6044391)
Never has a franchise benefitted so wildly from good fortune as the Giants of the last ten years or so.

I'm a Tigers fan, and I approved this message.
   5. JustDan Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:43 AM (#6044394)
So, this is the first time ever that the Giants and Dodgers are facing each other in the post season.
   6. TomH Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:02 AM (#6044396)
Calculated by hand

Best teams to play off in the postseason, by the WPCT of the lesser team

year team1 . team2 series . wpct wpct . WINS
2021 Dodgers -Giants NLDS .654 .660 106-107
1942 Cardinals-Yankees WS .688 .669 106-103
1912 Red Sox . - Giants WS .691 .682 105-103

By this, 1912 is the best. By simple Win totals, this year's match-up is unsurpassed.

   7. TomH Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:05 AM (#6044397)
Voxter, you *could* be correct, but the Marlins of 1997-2003 are in the competition. And the A's of 1972-74 won some VERY close ALCS and WS rounds, and they were never the best MLB team during their three-peat.
To wit, the A's played and won 6 straight playoff series. AND THEY WERE OUTSCORED ALL THREE YEARS.
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:15 AM (#6044398)
I hope the Dodgers stomp the ever-loving #### out of the Giants. Never has a franchise benefitted so wildly from good fortune as the Giants of the last ten years or so. It would be nice to see the tables turned.

Still like them better than the Dodgers. The playoff teams are a pretty unlikable crew this year. Milwaukee and SFG the only teams I don't have some dislike for.
   9. Mefisto Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:22 AM (#6044400)
I'm not sure what #3 means by "good fortune", but it seems pretty dependent on recency. The Giants, after all, didn't make the playoffs in 1993 despite winning 103 games, while the Dodgers won the Series in 1981 despite a ridiculous playoff structure that should have had the Reds in the post-season instead of the Dodgers.
   10. stanmvp48 Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:33 AM (#6044401)
"So, this is the first time ever that the Giants and Dodgers are facing each other in the post season. "

1951? Is that not considered post season because it was a regular season playoff?
   11. bunyon Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:45 AM (#6044402)
10: yes. It’s semantics. For most/much of the wc era, Teo teams from same division couldn’t meet in the LDS. So they haven’t had a ton of opportunity to meet in the postseason.
   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:54 AM (#6044405)
10: yes. It’s semantics. For most/much of the wc era, Teo teams from same division couldn’t meet in the LDS. So they haven’t had a ton of opportunity to meet in the postseason.

It's not totally semantics. The Yankees and Red Sox have managed to meet 4 times (before this year) despite the same division set up. Heck, they even played the O's twice.
   13. bunyon Posted: October 07, 2021 at 09:07 AM (#6044409)
Sure. It could have happened. Braves played the Marlins. But the implication is that it’s some historic weirdness when, really, we’re decades away from exhausting intradivision matchups in the postseason.
   14. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 12:05 PM (#6044466)
I'm not sure what #3 means by "good fortune", but it seems pretty dependent on recency.


I literally said "in the last 10 years or so." It should be obvious what it means -- despite never having been more than just a good team, they won three titles through the vagaries of the wildcard and the postseason.
   15. Mefisto Posted: October 07, 2021 at 01:54 PM (#6044497)
Yes, and my point is that your claim of good fortune is mere recency bias, which is no particularly good reason to root against a team. That's why I pointed out earlier examples of the Giants suffering actual bad luck and the Dodgers having actual good luck.

I still don't understand what you mean by "good fortune" in the context of 2010-14, though. The Giants did actually win those games.
   16. bunyon Posted: October 07, 2021 at 02:42 PM (#6044512)
The World Series champion always wins four World Series games. Sometimes they’re lucky to win or two. Oftentimes, especially since 1995 (or 1969), they’re simply lucky to be there. The 2014 Giants we’re luckier to be there than most winners.
   17. Tony S Posted: October 07, 2021 at 02:53 PM (#6044515)
And the A's of 1972-74 won some VERY close ALCS and WS rounds, and they were never the best MLB team during their three-peat.
To wit, the A's played and won 6 straight playoff series. AND THEY WERE OUTSCORED ALL THREE YEARS.


And in the seasons that bookended their WS run, they actually had *better* regular-season records -- 101 wins in 1971 and 98 in 1975. And they got swept in the LCS both times.

The more you bloat the playoffs in baseball, the most long-haul of sports, the more random the champions are.

   18. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 03:19 PM (#6044526)

I literally said "in the last 10 years or so." It should be obvious what it means


Its not obvious. You could have been talking about a blown call, or an injury situation, or something to do with team revenue or anything. There was no way I would have remembered their w/l records which is an incredibly silly thing to get hung up for various reasons including: this is the way season works.

*****

Looks like Cowboy Joe had an excellent game last night only missing 4 ball/strike calls and they were all quite close.

Still ends up with a 0.3 run edge to the Dodgers which goes back to the argument about how much of an advantage a blown call is. something like .08 runs
   19. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 07, 2021 at 03:39 PM (#6044532)
Despite the lack of enthusiasm in some quarters here, the Yankees - Red Sox Wildcard game set a viewership record, and was the most-watched MLB game on ESPN since 1998. The ratings on the NL Wildcard game don’t seem to be available yet, but we should be able to do a comparison soon.
   20. Mefisto Posted: October 07, 2021 at 03:41 PM (#6044533)
@16: I basically agree with you, though the Giants aren't the only WC team to win the Series and I don't think their success was "wildly lucky"; every winner gets some breaks along the way.
   21. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 03:41 PM (#6044534)
Yes, and my point is that your claim of good fortune is mere recency bias, which is no particularly good reason to root against a team.


It's a perfectly good reason, and it's my reason.
   22. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 03:46 PM (#6044535)
Its not obvious. You could have been talking about a blown call, or an injury situation, or something to do with team revenue or anything. There was no way I would have remembered their w/l records which is an incredibly silly thing to get hung up for various reasons including: this is the way season works.


Oh, whatever to all that. I remember it perfectly well, and it was discussed around here relentlessly. It's not really that difficult or complicated to have a sense of stuff like this, and it's to be expected in a community of cranky baseball obsessives. "A blown call, an injury situation," etc, would be in a single game, not over the course of a decade.

Anyway, this is a dumb semantic argument. #### the Giants, I hope they get swept, that's where I'm coming from and I don't think anybody gets to tell me why or why not I get to feel that way.
   23. JustDan Posted: October 07, 2021 at 03:51 PM (#6044538)
Three of the four LDS match teams in the same time zone. The only one that doesn't is the Braves/Brewers. So no cross country trips for any of the teams. I guess all the match-ups are of the north vs south variety.
   24. Hombre Brotani Posted: October 07, 2021 at 03:52 PM (#6044540)
Despite the lack of enthusiasm in some quarters here, the Yankees - Red Sox Wildcard game set a viewership record, and was the most-watched MLB game on ESPN since 1998.
Of course it did. The two biggest team names in baseball draw casual viewers. This is why television shows stuntcast. Famous names draw curious eyes.
   25. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 03:58 PM (#6044543)
when's the last time we've seen a team with 9 guys w/ 3.0+ WAR? (CWS)
   26. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:02 PM (#6044544)
I remember it perfectly well, and it was discussed around here relentlessly.


You know what else is obvious?

That a regular season w/l record has merely tangential relevance to the actual strength of a team measured by WAR or some other means.

That teams change over the course of a season so who's good in July might not be in Sept/Oct.
   27. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:13 PM (#6044546)
So, this is the first time ever that the Giants and Dodgers are facing each other in the post season.


... if you don't count the playoffs in 1951 and 1962 (which were technically part of the regular season).
   28. Tom Goes to the Ballpark Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:20 PM (#6044547)
when's the last time we've seen a team with 9 guys w/ 3.0+ WAR? (CWS)
Yesterday?
   29. bunyon Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:36 PM (#6044549)
26: then just play a tournament in July. You’re making a circular argument if you’re just going to say the World Series champs are the best because they won the World Series.

With more playoff rounds, all champs are luckier than in yesteryear.
   30. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:37 PM (#6044550)
Is Dusty wearing rubber gloves?
   31. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:38 PM (#6044551)
Yesterday?


not the LAD, is STL?
   32. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:39 PM (#6044552)

26: then just play a tournament in July. You’re making a circular argument if you’re just going to say the World Series champs are the best because they won the World Series.


I didnt say anything like that. I just said certain observations are obvious, more obvious than what Voxter was referring to as "luck" which wasnt defined and has various issues with that concept.

Have no idea how you drew the conclusion you did
   33. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:42 PM (#6044554)
STL does not have 9 3WAR players. Nor does LAD, Bauer was 9th in war, but he's at 2.8 and not on the roster.
   34. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:44 PM (#6044555)

[x ] DP situation or runner/3b less than 2 outs. GB goes through (error or hit)
   35. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:57 PM (#6044556)
LaRussa has really juggled his roster, he's keeping 14 positions players including Billy Hamilton. He left off Adam Eaton and the nominal DH Mercedes.
   36. bunyon Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:07 PM (#6044558)
A wildcard team who finishes six back is lucky to win the World Series. I’m not sure how that’s debatable.
   37. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:10 PM (#6044559)
He left off Adam Eaton

He also left off Mike Trout, Shohei Ohtani, and Anthony Rendon.

the nominal DH Mercedes

He was sent to AAA in June and never came back up.
   38. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:10 PM (#6044560)
He left off Adam Eaton and the nominal DH Mercedes.


Mercedes hasn't played a game for the Sox since June.
   39. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:32 PM (#6044564)

A wildcard team who finishes six back is lucky to win the World Series.


How does that tell you how strong they were entering the playoffs? What would be a useful number of data pts? 50 games?

Everytime this argument comes up its premised on the silly notion that w/l record = How good or how talented that team is.

Right? YOu subscribe to that notion. Correct Bunyon?
   40. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:33 PM (#6044565)

Mercedes hasn't played a game for the Sox since June.


Thanks TN, havent watched regular season so I have to catch up.
   41. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:37 PM (#6044566)
(the SOX DFA'd Eaton months ago and he finished the season on the Angels, thus my snark)

Astros seem to be the perfect team to hit against Lynn - lots of contact and don't strike out much, with Lynn overly reliant on a fastball and lots of Ks - or so today would make you think.

The bottom third of the sox lineup is pretty meh at best.
   42. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:40 PM (#6044567)
Eloy got to that quickly and it's a short LF, but man, his arm is so bad I kinda think they should have sent him there.
   43. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:40 PM (#6044568)
A wildcard team who finishes six back is lucky to win the World Series. I’m not sure how that’s debatable.

Kind of depends on the level of the competition. The 2004 Red Sox finished 3 GB the Yankees,** but their Pythag record was 7 games better, and their Pythag was also 5 games better than their DS rival Angels, and only 2 games worse than the Cardinals. I don't think they were lucky at all.

** I realize your cutoff number was 6 games, and in most cases you'd be right, but the point about the competition remains.

   44. Hombre Brotani Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:44 PM (#6044569)
This game's over early.
   45. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:44 PM (#6044570)
That was odd defensive positioning on that shift. The 2b was in normal shift positioning against a LHP (short RF, way closer to 1b), but the SS was in normalish SS position on the LF side of the bag. That was a weakish grounder right to where a 2b would normally be, or where the SS in the shift could get to.
   46. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:45 PM (#6044572)
Astros seem to be the perfect team to hit against Lynn - lots of contact and don't strike out much, with Lynn overly reliant on a fastball and lots of Ks - or so today would make you think.

Lynn's career ERA in the Field Formerly Known as Enron is 4.92 in 9 starts, and in his only start there in 2021 he gave up 8 hits and 6 ER in 4 innings.
   47. bunyon Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:52 PM (#6044576)
I subscribe to the notion that we need a lot of games to judge team strength. Put the best team against the worst team in one game and we won’t learn anything.

Do I think 162 w/l is a perfect measure of strength? No. But it’s better than who gets hot over 19 games at the end.

The 2004 Red Sox were lucky. They lost their division. For over 100 years, they wouldn’t have had a chance to what they did. Just as, this year, if we let third place teams in the playoffs, the Jays might well win it all.

I mean, I get it. You guys disavow luck. The winner is necessarily deserving. It’s a comforting feeling. And they are, inarguably, the winner. But, if you don’t think 162 games is enough to settle it, 19 or 20 certainly isn’t and what you’re really saying is we can’t know who is the best.

But I do love Jolly citing pythagoras.
   48. Hombre Brotani Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:58 PM (#6044580)
I mean, I get it. You guys disavow luck. The winner is necessarily deserving. It’s a comforting feeling.
I bet thinking that about the people who disagree with you is a comforting feeling.
   49. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 05:59 PM (#6044581)
BUnyon is your issue that the SFG were Lucky or Underserving?

Cause I think Undeserving is the word you are looking for. But you can explain it to us and then we can dissect that position.
   50. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:10 PM (#6044583)
Yep, this one's done. Houston is really good. Their #6 and #7 hitters are Correa and Tucker. How do you pitch against that lineup?
   51. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:13 PM (#6044585)


I mean, I get it. You guys disavow luck. The winner is necessarily deserving.


I dont think anyone's said anything like that. No one has said that luck doesnt factor into it.

And I havent taken a position one way or the other on which team is more deserving or if SFG were undeserving, or how to structure a tournament to make the winner "deserving" or how we define deserving.

And what about before the WC? to me the 68 Tigers were incredibly lucky to have won the WS.

And Ive been re watching the 69 series and while its very interesting and exciting the Mets got the benefit of just about every controversial ruling in that. It would have been a better series almost certainly w/o the non call on the runner's interference and the shoe polish thing. So they really benefitted.

How do you come out on all that stuff? Did no one get lucky before the WC?

And do you have a plan to make baseball more fair?

So why dont you engage us with something to debate rather than being a prick and putting words in people's mouths.?
   52. bunyon Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:19 PM (#6044586)
My position is that winning three or four short series against good teams is inherently lucky. If a team won their division and then swept 11 games, I might say they aren’t lucky.

The winner is never undeserving by definition. The rules are clear and known. Best Pythagorean, most WAR, etc aren’t what determines the winner.

But being a deserving champion doesn’t equate to being yhe better team or not getting lucky. Some teams - notably the 2014 giants - are luckier than others.

The 21 Dodgers were better than the 21 Cardinals. We didn’t learn that last night but over the season. Last night was, more or less, a random result. Fun as hell but random.

I bet thinking that about the people who disagree with you is a comforting feeling.

This discussion started with someone judging someone else’s reason for rooting against a team. Yes, obviously, thinking other people are wrong is comforting.
   53. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:19 PM (#6044587)

Do I think 162 w/l is a perfect measure of strength? No. But it’s better than who gets hot over 19 games at the end.


WHy is "better"? Whats your def'n of better? Until you have one, these examples are ambiguous. Neither of them is definitive of anything until you ask a question: do we want a six month test or a recent test?

I mean you put out statements like this that don't have answers and then you throw out some cliche and its hard to understand what you're position is.

...and what you’re really saying is we can’t know who is the best.


LIke this one. Some of us are saying that indeed you cant really know (and in that case, how do you want to conclude a season?) BUt what are YOU Saying? Dont you agree that We Can't Know? or do you think we can?
   54. bunyon Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:22 PM (#6044589)
51: don’t think I’ve been a prick. Re-read what I wrote and still don’t. Haven’t convinced you but you haven’t convinced me. Of course teams got lucky or unlucky before 1969.

So, anyway, go #### yourself.

There, now I’m a prick. With better things to do.
   55. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:30 PM (#6044591)

This discussion started with someone judging someone else’s reason for rooting against a team.


That's not how it started for me. I was responding to Voxter's impression that it was "obvious" SFG were lucky when some of us had no idea what he was speaking of.
   56. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:33 PM (#6044592)

51: don’t think I’ve been a prick. Re-read what I wrote and still don’t.


you said:

You’re making a circular argument if you’re just going to say the World Series champs are the best because they won the World Series.


I never said. WHat is your problem?
   57. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:35 PM (#6044594)

My position is that winning three or four short series against good teams is inherently lucky.


what is "inherently lucky" ? What does that even mean?
   58. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:37 PM (#6044596)
will be interesting to see how long they let McCullers go here. They've got a big lead and he's near 100 pitches in the 7th.
   59. Hombre Brotani Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:43 PM (#6044599)
My position is that winning three or four short series against good teams is inherently lucky.
Winning three or four short series against good teams in October might be inherently lucky, but the only teams that get to play those short series in October are inherently good, because they earned postseason berths. We can argue about just how good those teams are, but there aren't any BAD teams playing in the postseason. If a good team beats another good team, did they win because they were a good team, or because they were lucky, or both? If a good team loses to another good team, is it because they were unlucky, or because they were outplayed by a better team? How could you even tell?
   60. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:02 PM (#6044602)

(the SOX DFA'd Eaton months ago and he finished the season on the Angels, thus my snark)


Yeah I laughed. I had to look that up, I am just getting up to speed on all these teams.
   61. Tin Angel Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:04 PM (#6044603)
Sounds like Brandon Crawford may have engaged in intercourse with Bunyon's spouse or significant other.
   62. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:10 PM (#6044604)
If a good team loses to another good team, is it because they were unlucky, or because they were outplayed by a better team? How could you even tell?


Yeah I was thinking of this as we're talking and as you start to dissect these seasons into games and then into AB and such you end up with more questions than you started with.

I think there's any number of factors that could be at play. There could be a good decision on the part of a manager, there could be some specific match up that perhaps can't be quantified in regular season play but that came into play in a specific player vs player match up or team speed vs a catcher or something.

but as you slice it up into atoms and you come down to individual AB, then you might find like just someone out performing what the expectation is. Like AL Weiss hitting a HR. Its not impossible but it's not likely either. So what is it exactly? Is that luck? But you cant expect him to make an out every single AB right? He has to get a hit sometimes...

THe 69 series just seems ridiculous that definitely felt like it should have had more games, the Mets kept geting every break.

But forget that stuff and look at the close series and those just come down to one play. Like the 1962 series. Or it comes down to one play several times! Like the 1960 Yanks could have lost in the top of the ninth if Mantle doesn't get back. Or the PIT could have lost it before that if Kubek catches the ball. Or they lose if Hal Smith doesnt hit a HR.

Its crazy.
   63. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:26 PM (#6044606)
I was responding to Voxter's impression that it was "obvious" SFG were lucky when some of us had no idea what he was speaking of.


If we were in the same room, I would have responded to your response with a roll of the eyes, as that's about what it's worth.
   64. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:37 PM (#6044607)
In the playoffs where every game is so much more important, doesn't that counsel against using your best relievers to close out a 6-0 or 6-1 game? It's all the more important to make sure they're available when the score is closer.
   65. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:41 PM (#6044608)
Is it limited capacity in Houston? Where are the fans? Lot of empty seats
   66. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:45 PM (#6044609)
Nice play
   67. Tony S Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:45 PM (#6044610)
In the playoffs where every game is so much more important, doesn't that counsel against using your best relievers to close out a 6-0 or 6-1 game? It's all the more important to make sure they're available when the score is closer.


The Astros have never gotten over blowing that 5-2 lead in the eighth in Game 5 against Philly in 1980.

(Well, I haven't. Grumble, grumble.)
   68. Tom Goes to the Ballpark Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:46 PM (#6044611)
STL does not have 9 3WAR players. Nor does LAD, Bauer was 9th in war, but he's at 2.8 and not on the roster.
Eh?

Player                          fWAR   bWAR
Max Muncy                       4.9    4.9
Will Smith                      4.6    3.5
Justin Turner                   4.0    3.7
Mookie Betts                    3.9    4.2
Corey Seager                    3.7    3.7
Chris Taylor                    3.1    2.7
AJ Pollock                      3.0    3.1
Trea Turner                     6.9    6.5
Walker Buehler                  5.5    6.7
Julio Urias                     5.0    4.7
Calyton Kershaw                 3.4    2.4
Max Scherzer                    5.4    6.0 


So 12 3+ WAR players by fWAR and 10 by bWAR or 10 and 9 if you want to exclude Muncy and Kershaw since they are not on the roster.
   69. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:54 PM (#6044613)
Just made my dad feel bad by telling him Arod made the same Mike Scott reference he texted after the game. He cannot stand Arod

And thanks as always to BBREF helping me learn about Mike Scott
   70. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:13 PM (#6044616)
Is it limited capacity in Houston? Where are the fans? Lot of empty seats
You wanna see empty seats, check out the Rays game. Entire sections empty.
   71. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:18 PM (#6044618)
70--I was asking about Houston because I thought Texas wasn't taking any COVID actions in public spaces. Just wondering
   72. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:19 PM (#6044619)
You wanna see empty seats, check out the Rays game. Entire sections empty.


That's just sad. It's not like they are playing a team that doesn't draw well either, I would imagine there are several thousand Sox fans at the game.

That club definitely deserves better support, all they do is win games year after year.
   73. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:21 PM (#6044622)
I was asking about Houston because I thought Texas wasn't taking any COVID actions in public spaces. Just wondering
Yeah, I think it's probably a safe bet that small crowds in Texas and Florida aren't due to COVID protections.
   74. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:22 PM (#6044623)
That's just sad. It's not like they are playing a team that doesn't draw well either, I would imagine there are several thousand Sox fans at the game.

That club definitely deserves better support, all they do is win games year after year.
But they've got yellow towels and loud sirens and such. So there's that.
   75. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:26 PM (#6044625)
With that crowd is TB piping in artificial crowd noise? Seems like the sound is much greater than expected
   76. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:28 PM (#6044626)
I noticed that too. Wouldn't surprise me if they are. Or maybe just the acoustics of the dome?
   77. Mefisto Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:28 PM (#6044627)
This discussion started with someone judging someone else’s reason for rooting against a team.


Yes, when someone offers a reason the rest of us can judge the quality of that reason. That's what it means to "reason". There didn't have to be a reason given, of course; we can hate another team without giving a reason. But if you're going to give a reason, there's nothing wrong with trying to understand what it means.
   78. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:29 PM (#6044628)

So 12 3+ WAR players by fWAR and 10 by bWAR or 10 and 9 if you want to exclude Muncy and Kershaw since they are not on the roster.


Trea Turner only has 2.5 WAR with the LAD. Scherzer has 2.4 w/ LAD
   79. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:29 PM (#6044629)
Voxter was referring to as "luck"


Literally never used that word.
   80. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:31 PM (#6044631)
Yes, when someone offers a reason the rest of us can judge the quality of that reason. That's what it means to "reason". There didn't have to be a reason given, of course; we can hate another team without giving a reason. But if you're going to give a reason, there's nothing wrong with trying to understand what it means.


Oh, for Christ's sake. Grow up.
   81. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:32 PM (#6044633)
Some of you guys remind me of when I go back to Wisconsin as a kid and my grandparents would invite all the old relatives who would get together and pick up arguments that started 70 years ago
   82. Hombre Brotani Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:32 PM (#6044634)
That club definitely deserves better support, all they do is win games year after year.
Fans get attached to players who win, not just winning. Hopefully Tampa can keep Franco and Arrozarena around, but that would not be very on-brand for the Rays.
   83. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:33 PM (#6044635)
Tampa showing the Sox why they won 100 games. Definitely hitting the ball hard and a nice play by Devers to get the Sox out of more trouble.
   84. Textbook Editor Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:36 PM (#6044637)
Not an ideal start for the Boston 9.
   85. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:36 PM (#6044638)
Renfroe stings a long single off the wall, nice play by Randy to keep it to a single. Gee they do the little things well, don't they?
   86. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:37 PM (#6044639)
Ha, and saying that, they boot a DP ball....
   87. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:38 PM (#6044640)
Dalbec's ba should go up about 10 pts wit the DP on.
   88. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:39 PM (#6044641)
   89. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:39 PM (#6044642)
Dalbec hits one hard, right to the well positioned 2B for a DP...bummer for Sox
   90. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:43 PM (#6044644)
Fans get attached to players who win, not just winning. Hopefully Tampa can keep Franco and Arrozarena around, but that would not be very on-brand for the Rays.
It's more than that, too - their player usage is pretty much specifically designed to avoid creating individual stars.
   91. Textbook Editor Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:45 PM (#6044645)
So how fast do they pull rip cord on EdRod? I don’t think he has it tonight.
   92. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:47 PM (#6044646)
SSS but Zunino slugged .868 against lefties this season. 26 of 39 hits for xb. 16 dingers
   93. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:48 PM (#6044647)
E-Rod walks another guy. E-rod needs to throw more strikes.
   94. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:48 PM (#6044648)


Should he be running with two strikes here?
   95. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:51 PM (#6044649)
I like the idea of tagging up on the long fly. Did Margot go half way and then tag up or he was tagging the whole time? Cant tell from radio
   96. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:52 PM (#6044650)
So how fast do they pull rip cord on EdRod? I don’t think he has it tonight.


Agree. Another run and he's done. Besides I hate watching him "work", the pace is glacial
   97. Textbook Editor Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:54 PM (#6044652)
Wow
   98. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:56 PM (#6044653)
Ok, so I was wrong there. That is...uh...pretty darn fast.
   99. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:56 PM (#6044654)
96--Then be glad Devin Williams is out of the playoffs. Dude takes forever to pitch
   100. Textbook Editor Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:56 PM (#6044655)
So I suppose this could allow EdRod to possibly start a Game 4. But considering you’re gonna need length tomorrow with Sale going... But I guess this is why Perez made the roster; the potential need for length in Games 1 and 2.
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