Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, October 07, 2021

2021 LDS OMNICHATTER!

White Sox vs. Astros
Red Sox vs. Rays

Braves vs. Brewers
Dodgers vs. Giants

It’s on.

Scoreboards for the Major Leagues and all minor leagues,
courtesy of Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee).

Hombre Brotani Posted: October 07, 2021 at 12:35 AM | 882 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: omnichatter

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 9 of 9 pages ‹ First  < 7 8 9
   801. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:27 AM (#6046543)
He’s lucky he didn’t get his head caved in.
Looked like he got it shaved a bit closer by Gausman’s spikes.
   802. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:27 AM (#6046544)
And Max is on the bump
   803. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:28 AM (#6046545)
Pulling for a Bryant two run shot.
   804. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:28 AM (#6046546)
Is Brian Anderson the broadcaster the same guy as Brian Anderson the former DBacks pitcher or Brian Anderson the former White Sox outfielder?
   805. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:29 AM (#6046547)
Thought that was gonna drop
   806. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:30 AM (#6046548)
Likewise.
   807. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:30 AM (#6046549)
And Turner boots the grounder. Max is NOT happy!
   808. JJ1986 Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:30 AM (#6046550)
Is Brian Anderson the broadcaster the same guy as Brian Anderson the former DBacks pitcher or Brian Anderson the former White Sox outfielder?
No, but Anderson the pitcher is also a broadcaster.
   809. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:30 AM (#6046551)
E-5! Life for the Giants!
   810. phredbird Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:30 AM (#6046552)

oh god, turner ...

   811. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:30 AM (#6046553)
I want a walk off!
   812. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:31 AM (#6046554)
So, do you send Bryant at some point during the next AB?
   813. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:31 AM (#6046555)
Turner looked like he was distracted by the stuff living in his beard.
   814. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:31 AM (#6046556)
Not to offend Minnesotans, but the Twins gave away both Akil Baddoo and Lamonte Wade Jr. this offseason. D'oh!
   815. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:33 AM (#6046559)
Wade didn't miss that one by much.
   816. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:33 AM (#6046560)
Totally fooled him. Wow.
   817. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:33 AM (#6046561)
Wade can clearly get around on the inside pitch.
   818. JJ1986 Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:33 AM (#6046562)
Wade was only looking to end the game with one swing.
   819. phredbird Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:34 AM (#6046563)

yow ...

wade trying to end it.

what a pitch!
   820. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:34 AM (#6046564)
So Scherzer freezes him outside.
   821. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:35 AM (#6046565)
Bullshit. You can’t do that.
   822. phredbird Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:35 AM (#6046566)

oh. my. god.

   823. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:36 AM (#6046567)
Oh. I dunno
   824. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:36 AM (#6046568)
Don’t know that I’ve ever seen a playoff series end on a check swing called a strike by a base umpire.
   825. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:36 AM (#6046569)
What an anticlimactic call to end it.
   826. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:36 AM (#6046570)
Oh, what the ever loving ####???
   827. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:36 AM (#6046571)
Great game, shat upon at the last second.
   828. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:36 AM (#6046572)
Seriously what bullshit.
   829. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:36 AM (#6046573)
That was NOT a swing
   830. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:36 AM (#6046574)
That wasn't a swing. Not at all. Awful.
   831. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:37 AM (#6046575)
Not even close to a swing. What a terrible call.
   832. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:37 AM (#6046576)
That was nowhere close. Come the #### on.
   833. JJ1986 Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:37 AM (#6046577)
My thought live was that the ump would never call that whether it was a swing or not. Thought on replay was that it was clearly not a swing.
   834. Howie Menckel Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:37 AM (#6046578)
WHAT
A
#######
DISASTER

in unrelated news, Flores has the most walk-off RBI in Mets franchise history - weird, granted, but true.

so who wants to see HIM get a full at-bat?

let the replay controversy continue.

noticed in the pre-game that the first-base ump was "L. Nielsen," but didn't make the connection

#sigh
   835. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:38 AM (#6046579)
Not even close. Brutal
   836. Shredder Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:38 AM (#6046580)
That wasn't even close. How do you end a series on that?
   837. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:38 AM (#6046581)
This was one of the greatest baseball games of my lifetime. Hats off to everybody except Gabe Morales.
   838. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:38 AM (#6046582)
That's a terrible way for that series to end.
   839. phredbird Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:38 AM (#6046583)

ugh, the replays show it's not a good call.
   840. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:38 AM (#6046584)
That’s just gross.
   841. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:39 AM (#6046585)
That's Denkinger-esque.
   842. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:39 AM (#6046586)
Not sure what the umpire thought he saw, but the replay from his approximate angle looked like a pretty easy no-swing call.
   843. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:40 AM (#6046587)
I hope there will be some sort of disciplinary accountability for Morales, but somehow I doubt it.
   844. TubaOnFire Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:40 AM (#6046588)
Where is this on a list of all-time bad calls?
   845. Howie Menckel Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:40 AM (#6046589)
That's Denkinger-esque.

I will not be baited again, but will consider the ignore button after this dunderhead comment.
google "baseball series win probability" as a start.

personally, I am less likely to watch as much baseball in the next 2 weeks after that disaster. MLB should be ashamed.
   846. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:41 AM (#6046590)
"He shoved it up our butt twice" was just uttered during the post game interview.
   847. nick swisher hygiene Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:42 AM (#6046591)
Yet another triumph for the current state of instant replay implementation!
   848. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:43 AM (#6046592)
Apparently Scherzer’s “happy” expression is more along the lines of “I’m going to eat my nearest teammate’s face.”
   849. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:43 AM (#6046593)
As a no replay guy, I gotta say that one was pretty obviously a bad call. Usually you'd get a home field advantage on something borderline, but that was still blocks away from even being near the borderline.
The ref there just blew it.
   850. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:45 AM (#6046594)
I will not be baited again, but will consider the ignore button after this dunderhead comment.


I don't think anyone's ever threatened to put me on ignore. It's kind of flattering.


google "baseball series win probability" as a start.


No thanks.
   851. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:45 AM (#6046595)
The ref there just blew it.
They’re still called “umps” here, mate.
   852. Howie Menckel Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:48 AM (#6046596)
google "baseball series win probability" as a start.

No thanks.

if you're comparing a bad-call leadoff baserunner in Game 6 of a series that the victimized team leads 3-2 in a series and in a game where they still lead by a run with 3 outs to go, to a series-ending horseshit call - perhaps you should reconsider.

hint: the Cardinals' series win probability dropped to still well over 50 percent when that call was blown. the Giants' series win probability dropped to 0 percent when this call was blown.

see what I mean?

well, if nothing else, you baited me.
   853. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:49 AM (#6046597)
They’re still called “umps” here, mate.


The adjudicator really blew it!
   854. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:49 AM (#6046598)
I'm pretty pro-replay (in theory) and I'm not sure there's anything you can really do about that with replay. That was pretty obvious but no way does it make sense to review check swings.
   855. Howie Menckel Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:52 AM (#6046599)
it's not that complicated - only review check-swing calls on either final outs or in a final inning of a series, perhaps even only with the tying run anywhere in the vicinity.

we might go 10 years between such reviews, and most of them would take mere seconds. and the borderline ones, they get left alone.

but sorry, a series - especially THIS series - just can't end that way.

if you don't like that version, then just eliminate checking with the first-base ump in these scenarios.

in any business, whenever there is an epic failure like this was, serious consideration probably should go toward whether there is a simple way to avoid it ever happening again.
   856. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:53 AM (#6046600)
hint: the Cardinals' series win probability dropped to still well over 50 percent when that call was blown. the Giants' series win probability dropped to 0 percent when this call was blown.


I haven't been on BBTF for a while, but are we now giving credence to win probability? I thought that was a toy.
   857. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:55 AM (#6046601)
I'm pretty pro-replay (in theory) and I'm not sure there's anything you can really do about that with replay. That was pretty obvious but no way does it make sense to review check swings.
If replay were done right, as many people here have advocated, it could be done. Obviously you can’t review every check swing call, but if it were taken out of the managers’ hands and turned over to a designated replay ump, that ump could have overturned this particular call but not scrutinized every meaningless check swing in every other game.

EDIT: Or what Howie said. Coke.
   858. Howie Menckel Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:57 AM (#6046602)
there's not a lot of mathematical expertise involved in understanding the massive, massive chasm between this call and the Denkinger call.

I assume no one disputes the "more than 50 percent" versus "0 percent" in the two examples here. so it adds up, so to speak.

I do agree that the minutaie I often see with WP is something I don't accept, however.

there is nothing "pivotal" about a leadoff runner reaching in a game where the other team has a 3-2 lead in a series and a one-run lead with 3 outs to go.

now, if you want to opine on how Herzog and the Cardinals lost their collective minds, blew the game, and barely showed up for Game 7, that's a bit different.

but blaming the umpire for that collective bed-shitttting is absurd, in spite of all protests to the contrary. don't get distracted by "win probability" specifically. a leadoff runner improperly being called safe at first base with the Cardinals leading in that 1985 series is not a big deal on its own. Flores improperly being called out to end an entire series - note "end" and "entire season" as rather dramatic differences - is not even a close comp.

just because there is a nonsensical narrative about the Denkinger call and its supposed "pivotal" impact doesn't mean that any "BBTF Thinking Fan" has to accept such nonsense.
   859. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:57 AM (#6046603)
hint: the Cardinals' series win probability dropped to still well over 50 percent when that call was blown. the Giants' series win probability dropped to 0 percent when this call was blown.


See, I thought you could compare two clearly blown calls that turned out to be pivotal in a postseason series. I didn't know you could only compare things when their effect on "series win probability" is the same.
   860. bunyon Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:58 AM (#6046604)
Saw on twittee that the giants won a game against the Dodgers earlier in the year on a blown check swing call. That would have given the Dodgers the division of course.

I agree it’s a blown call. But if you don’t think a game can end that way, you’re for expanded replay. But I’m certainly glad to get a test of the “no one cares” argument.
   861. bunyon Posted: October 15, 2021 at 01:00 AM (#6046605)
A y blown call on the final out will take WP to zero.

I agree this one will be talked about for a long time.
   862. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 01:00 AM (#6046606)
Saw on twittee
In this world, you’re either a twitter or a twitee.
   863. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 01:03 AM (#6046607)
Wow. Are you watching the post show? Turns out shirtless Scherzer has approximately my build. Would have guessed he had at least slight muscle definition.
   864. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 01:18 AM (#6046610)
Kapler is quite diplomatic in the postgame press session. And the postgame interview for Morales is…when?
   865. Sleepy was just “inspecting the bunker”, y’all Posted: October 15, 2021 at 01:28 AM (#6046611)
Pretty sure the notional “replay ump” could have overturned that awful call in real time, without even looking at a replay. That was one of the worst calls I’ve ever seen.

I mean he was gonna be 1-2 count against Scherzer, so the actual WPA impact wasn’t as huge as it seemed, but I’m still very disappointed.
   866. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 01:31 AM (#6046612)
Bellinger, T.Turner and Betts all basically admit that the call was bullshit in their interviews.
   867. shoelesjoe Posted: October 15, 2021 at 07:13 AM (#6046615)
I so wish it had been Ángel Hernández making that check swing call. The fan reaction would have been delicious.
   868. jmurph Posted: October 15, 2021 at 07:52 AM (#6046617)
This seems like a good time to bring up the fact that "check swings" aren't actually defined in the rule book and I think, logically, should never be called a strike? A swing is "an attempt to strike at the ball," I believe is the language (god help me I can't find it right now). And I think a pretty normal interpretation of checking the swing is that the batter is not actually attempting to strike the ball.

I do think there is a fair argument on the other side that if a batter even starts the swing that's an attempt. I think that also makes sense, though I think my interpretation makes more sense- if he wanted to strike the ball he wouldn't stop the swing. But I get it. Seems like something that could be clarified! But instead we've allowed umpires to just make it up for a century and a half. Pretty odd.

   869. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: October 15, 2021 at 07:54 AM (#6046618)
to a series-ending horseshit call - perhaps you should reconsider.


I mean, come on. The next pitch was still going to be 1-2 with the best pitcher in the league on the mound and a guy with a career OBP of .314 at bat. Odds that ends the exact same way are extremely high.
   870. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: October 15, 2021 at 08:24 AM (#6046619)
Thank you, jmurph. I was going to make the same comment....I can't really see a feasible way to review a checked swing when it's not even defined in the rule book.

Hell of a game, it's a pity these teams couldn't play a best-of-7.
   871. jmurph Posted: October 15, 2021 at 08:27 AM (#6046620)
He broke his wrists, it didn't cross the plane, etc.

It's all just made up! Kind of crazy.
   872. Itchy Row Posted: October 15, 2021 at 08:30 AM (#6046621)
What a strange and pointless meltdown by Howie.
   873. dave h Posted: October 15, 2021 at 09:11 AM (#6046624)
Yeah, the first thing they need to do is to actually define a swing, and with it a check swing. That said, there is no interpretation of the rule that has ever been implemented that would say Flores swung.

The blind WP when Flores started his AB was about 10%. 1-2 is worse than 0-0. I assume the WP is based on the average pitcher pitching up 1 on the 9th, so probably already well above average though not Scherzer. Interestingly it's the same WP as right after the Dodgers took the lead and at 1 out, no runners for the Giants. Stranger things have happened.
   874. John DiFool2 Posted: October 15, 2021 at 09:17 AM (#6046625)
My mind is utterly boggled that checked swings aren't defined in rulebook. [Checked] I'll be Damned. That a major sport can't be arsed to define something THAT crucial? That's insane.

Ok fine, mine would be if the bat crossed into fair territory, which effectively means crossing any part of the plate. Simple, easy.
   875. The Duke Posted: October 15, 2021 at 09:20 AM (#6046626)
Best and deepest team finally won but it was close !!
   876. bunyon Posted: October 15, 2021 at 09:50 AM (#6046630)
   877. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 15, 2021 at 11:19 AM (#6046648)
Interestingly it's the same WP as right after the Dodgers took the lead and at 1 out, no runners for the Giants. Stranger things have happened.


with one out, nobody on, bot 9th down one, the WExpectancy is 10.2%
with 2 out, man on first, same score/inn its 8.4%.

THis is based on empirical data, I used 1960-2020 data. Found here:


https://gregstoll.com/~gregstoll/baseball/stats.html#H.-1.9.2.2.0.0.1960.2020
   878. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: October 15, 2021 at 11:44 AM (#6046652)
And I think a pretty normal interpretation of checking the swing is that the batter is not actually attempting to strike the ball.


I don't think this is that black and white, though. What about a guy who's bat goes mostly through the zone and then stops once he realizes it's a ball. He hasn't followed through with his swing, so he's technically checked his swing. But he made a legitimate attempt to strike the ball, then when he realized it was futile, he stopped his swing.

I think the way this has been interpreted over the years has been mostly good - if the bat goes more than halfway, that's evidence the batter was making an attempt to strike the ball and decided too late to abort the swing. This swing didn't qualify, obviously, but I don't know that the rule needs any further clarification. This was just a blown call.
   879. jmurph Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:14 PM (#6046656)
I don't think this is that black and white, though. What about a guy who's bat goes mostly through the zone and then stops once he realizes it's a ball. He hasn't followed through with his swing, so he's technically checked his swing. But he made a legitimate attempt to strike the ball, then when he realized it was futile, he stopped his swing.

I think the way this has been interpreted over the years has been mostly good - if the bat goes more than halfway, that's evidence the batter was making an attempt to strike the ball and decided too late to abort the swing. This swing didn't qualify, obviously, but I don't know that the rule needs any further clarification. This was just a blown call.

I think your suggestion for what the rule should be is totally fine and makes sense, I'm just trying to point out that it's made up, it has no basis in the rule book. And look I don't think this is a top 5 priority for the league to address or anything like that, but I think it's not ideal.
   880. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:25 PM (#6046659)
872: +1000
   881. Bret Sabermatrician Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:57 PM (#6046669)
Since I'm on an Indian Premier League kick, just had a perfect replay situation.

KKR is playing catch-up and one of their batters hit it sky high off CSK. Ball moved weirdly in the air and the fielder made a great catch after having to make an adjustment.

Looks like KKR has lost one of their opening batsmen. But, turns out it hit the rope for the sky camera (kind of like the catwalk at the Trop). By rule, its a no ball so he's not out. 2 balls later he hits a 4 and the chase is still on.

Replay was initiated by the booth and the correct call was made, all within 2 minutes.

No reason MLB can't do stuff like this if they really wanted to.
   882. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2021 at 12:57 PM (#6046670)
Gotta love umpires' version of accountability:

After the game, crew chief Ted Barrett was asked if Morales still thinks he made the right call. He wasn’t able to give the straightest answer.

“Yeah, no, we, yeah, yeah, he doesn’t want to say,” Barrett said.
Page 9 of 9 pages ‹ First  < 7 8 9

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogMLB, union stopped blood testing for HGH due to pandemic
(23 - 4:31am, Dec 03)
Last: Ben Broussard Ramjet

NewsblogNBA 2021-2022 Season Thread
(1250 - 3:32am, Dec 03)
Last: Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB)

NewsblogThe 100 Best Baseball Books Ever Written
(73 - 11:54pm, Dec 02)
Last: Tom Nawrocki

NewsblogFormer Cy Young Winner LaMarr Hoyt Reportedly Dies At 66
(56 - 11:02pm, Dec 02)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogReport: MLB Owners Vote Unanimously to Institute Lockout
(31 - 9:57pm, Dec 02)
Last: bookbook

Sox TherapyLocked Out and Semi-Loaded
(9 - 9:27pm, Dec 02)
Last: Jose Has Absurd Goosebump Arms

NewsblogSources: Boston Red Sox in agreement with Rich Hill
(16 - 9:19pm, Dec 02)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogA’s reportedly eyeing Tropicana site for possible Strip ballpark
(21 - 8:01pm, Dec 02)
Last: Walt Davis

Newsblog'Chicago!' Stroman says he's joining Cubs
(48 - 7:27pm, Dec 02)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogDoes Major League Baseball need an offseason transaction deadline?
(6 - 6:53pm, Dec 02)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogMarcell Ozuna was choking wife as cops burst in, police video shows
(32 - 6:50pm, Dec 02)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - Domestic Cups, Congested Fixture Lists and Winter Breaks
(27 - 5:27pm, Dec 02)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogMcCaffery: Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard passed Hall of Fame eye test
(67 - 5:12pm, Dec 02)
Last: taxandbeerguy

NewsblogSources - Cy Young winner Robbie Ray, Seattle Mariners finalizing $115 million contract
(9 - 4:40pm, Dec 02)
Last: Infinite Yost (Voxter)

NewsblogJackie Bradley, Jr. back to Boston in deal with Crew
(17 - 3:15pm, Dec 02)
Last: Walt Davis

Page rendered in 0.3655 seconds
48 querie(s) executed