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Wednesday, October 19, 2022

2022-23 NBA Kick-Off Thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and their fathers are all the District Attorney.

Hombre Brotani Posted: October 19, 2022 at 10:09 PM | 796 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: basketball, best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

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1. asinwreck Posted: October 19, 2022 at 10:25 PM (#6101770)

En route to an opening night rout, the Pelicans outrebounded the Nets 53-34.

Is Sean Marks calling Chicago to see if he can get Andre Drummond back?

2. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 19, 2022 at 10:30 PM (#6101773)

I am traveling so I missed the Wolves opener (I recorded it, so I will watch), but seriously what the heck happened in the third quarter of that game?

Anyway, it looks like they are going to win. Shut the season down now. :)

3. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 19, 2022 at 10:56 PM (#6101780)

How afraid are you of Luka if you're a Suns' fan? Pretty soon you're going to start having panic attacks if you hear Serbian.

4. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: October 20, 2022 at 02:01 AM (#6101792)

To be fair, there are probably a lot of non Suns people that get panic attacks when they hear Serbian.

5. jmurph Posted: October 20, 2022 at 08:29 AM (#6101799)

Ben Simmons ends his Nets debut with 4 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 turnovers and 6 fouls in 23 minutes for a -26 +/-.

If anything this might overstate his impact.

I feel like people haven't fully caught on to the idea that "Ben Simmons, PG" actually just means he brings the ball up the court, dumps it off at the first opportunity, and disappears for most of the rest of the possession. Kyrie has a lot of flaws, but this is just not a thing that is needed on that team (now Kyrie will of course miss dozens of games so things will be different then).

6. spivey Posted: October 20, 2022 at 10:29 AM (#6101805)

Didn't catch the game, but Banchero had a great debut. 27/9/5 on efficient scoring. Ivey and Duren were solid too, at least from box score stats.

Utah home court - maybe, but Denver is at even higher altitude, and it's not like there was any b2b shenanigans here that Utah and Denver sometimes get. So I don't think that's the explanation. Among other things, they won the 3pt battle by a *lot*. And really, it comes down to this for me - Utah is playing a ton of real NBA players. Far too many, for a team trying to tank. Olynyk, Markkanen, Vanderbilt, Conley, Clarkson, Sexton, Beasley. Even Rudy Gay and Kessler are reasonable guys to be getting some minutes. None are all stars, but most are about average-ish players who would be in rotations for anyone, and the fit of them isn't particularly weird either - they run across guards, wings, and bigs.

7. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 20, 2022 at 10:38 AM (#6101806)

Didn't catch the game, but Banchero had a great debut. 27/9/5 on efficient scoring.

Banchero was the best player on the court - the only thing keeping Orlando from getting blown out.

The very short list of players with at least 25/5/5 in their NBA debuts:

Paolo Banchero, 2022
LeBron James, 2003
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1969

8. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 20, 2022 at 11:24 AM (#6101809)

If anything this might overstate his impact.

I feel like people haven't fully caught on to the idea that "Ben Simmons, PG" actually just means he brings the ball up the court, dumps it off at the first opportunity, and disappears for most of the rest of the possession. Kyrie has a lot of flaws, but this is just not a thing that is needed on that team (now Kyrie will of course miss dozens of games so things will be different then).

i feel like simmons is the kind of person who would greatly benefit from going to AA meetings to work through his (probably not alcohol-related) issues.

9. reech Posted: October 20, 2022 at 12:11 PM (#6101810)

Though it ultimately ended in a loss, my Knicks had a very encouraging performance vs Memphis last night.
Though, I am deeply concerned about Coach Thibs facial hair and dyed Homer Simpson hairstyle.

10. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 20, 2022 at 01:24 PM (#6101817)

I am deeply concerned about Coach Thibs facial hair and dyed Homer Simpson hairstyle.

Had to look, wish I didn't. I love Thibs, but it's truly horrifying - seems like he's wearing a Halloween mask.

11. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 20, 2022 at 01:29 PM (#6101818)

fun fact:

when i googled this, i spelled his last name correctly.

bonus fun fact:

i only just now realized that his last name has one (and only one) of each vowel.

12. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: October 20, 2022 at 01:54 PM (#6101820)

Someone mentioned Herb Jones in the last thread....both he and Alvarado had more steals than turnovers last year.

It's not that uncommon for low usage players, but I always think it's a cool stat. Thybulle, Covington, Finney-Smith are others from last year, best ratio I could find was Gary Payton II, 96 steals and only 40 turnovers.

13. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: October 20, 2022 at 02:52 PM (#6101830)

Brian Lewis @NYPost_Lewis ·16h
Kyrie Irving on Ben Simmons fouling out: "As we told him in the locker room, he's a valuable piece for us and we need him out there. And fouling out is not an option. Playing aggressive is something that we want him to do, but we also want to play smart." #Nets #NBA

That's funny.

Not everyone who took last year off looked as rusty as Simmons. Zion looked unreal, I just really, really hope he stays healthy.

bonus fun fact:

i only just now realized that his last name has one (and only one) of each vowel.

Ime Udoka has to have the shortest name possible to contain all 5 vowels.

14. Adam M

Posted: October 20, 2022 at 03:13 PM (#6101833)

How much of the Brooklyn-New Orleans result was due to the Nets being bad versus the Pelicans being good? I didn't see the game, but Zion looked phenomenal in the highlights. Is it possible that this is the year it comes together for New Orleans?

15. jmurph Posted: October 20, 2022 at 03:23 PM (#6101835)

How much of the Brooklyn-New Orleans result was due to the Nets being bad versus the Pelicans being good? I didn't see the game, but Zion looked phenomenal in the highlights. Is it possible that this is the year it comes together for New Orleans?

This is probably dumb to say after they played so well, but I do wonder if they have enough playmaking. There were a couple times early last night where they got in a little your turn my turn, and it looked a little disjointed. McCollum isn't exactly a traditional point guard.

That said they're just working Zion back in with this current group, so it's possible I'm overthinking it.

16. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: October 20, 2022 at 03:26 PM (#6101836)

Mr. Pessimist weighing in again, my Pelicans questions are (1) Zion's health, (2) unproven coach, and (3) rim protection. They'll be able to score though, no question.

17. reech Posted: October 20, 2022 at 03:45 PM (#6101840)

Zion looked fit and fab last nite. Clearly less fat and more muscle.

I'm sure the Pelicans looked great because the Nets have no interest in defense- my goodness, talk about a garbage time team- it's gonna be a lonnnnnnnngggggg year in Brooklyn.

18. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: October 20, 2022 at 04:13 PM (#6101849)

I did read that Zion has a weight clause in his contract....not sure if that's new or not, but it can only be a good thing.

19. kcgard2 Posted: October 20, 2022 at 04:32 PM (#6101852)

The Knicks/Grizzlies game was entertaining. I continue to be nonplussed by the Knicks level of belief in RJ Barrett (who had a horrible game and may have cost them that game). And the Knicks have so many other options for his playing time, and solid options. Reddish on the other hand looked excellent. If they're going to go with Barrett, at least don't let him stink up crunch time of very tight games, right? I've seen the flashes, but I don't think he has the next level to his game, he's just a rotation guy.

James looked spry and effective in the Lakers game, even on defense (I only saw the fourth quarter). Even Westbrook looked...good. It's going to be interesting if the "big three" keep showing up like that, but they have no one around them. The Lakers still don't value possessions enough, either, like their mindset is they have the talent to just overcome it (maybe 6 years ago, guys).

My last thought is that foul calls have gone too far towards the offense now. There are just 4-6 mind numbingly weak foul calls every quarter, often where the offensive player doesn't even get touched, but a defender's hand was kind of like, near the offensive player's space a bit, or something. I mean besides the three-point landing stuff which is being hunted too much as expected. I'd like some better balance than this.

20. spivey Posted: October 20, 2022 at 04:45 PM (#6101853)

I believe in New Orleans in the regular season. But a lot of their players are 1 way guys. Both their best defenders and their best offenders. It's also just very rare for a team to make too big of a playoff leap. History has tended to show you have to get those playoff battle scars.

21. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 20, 2022 at 05:34 PM (#6101858)

I think the Pelicans are sneaky good, but only as long as Zion is healthy obvs.

PISTONS ARE FOR REAL! But seriously, Ivey and Duren looks great, Bogdanovich was shooting dimes, and Cade was terrific. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

How bad could the Lakers get? Because I think they are really bad.

22. asinwreck Posted: October 20, 2022 at 05:34 PM (#6101859)

Woj:

Fanatics CEO Michael Rubin has sold his 10 percent stake in Harris Blitzer Sports & Entertainment, completing a divestment as a limited partner of the Philadelphia 76ers and New Jersey Devils, sources told ESPN on Thursday.

David Adelman purchased a substantial share of Rubin's stake and now joins HSBE co-founders Josh Harris and David Blitzer as a limited partner in the Sixers and Devils, sources said. Adelman is the Chairman of 76 Devcorp, a real estate development company working to build a new 76ers arena in downtown Philadelphia.

23. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 20, 2022 at 06:36 PM (#6101865)

Fanatics CEO Michael Rubin has sold his 10 percent stake in Harris Blitzer Sports & Entertainment, completing a divestment as a limited partner of the Philadelphia 76ers and New Jersey Devils, sources told ESPN on Thursday.

i would not be shocked if this is a prelude to rubin buying his own team in the future.

24. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: October 20, 2022 at 07:06 PM (#6101868)

Well, there is a team on the market now.

25. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 20, 2022 at 07:25 PM (#6101871)

This is the most unpleasant image to ever appear on a birthday cake. The flavor isn’t chocolate or red velvet, but Atlantic City casino floor. The frosting is infused with stale hookah smoke. David Lynch has spent his entire career trying to compose a single frame as heart-stopping as a sodden and swollen Paul Pierce posing in front of a stripper laying a few feet away from an office chair on a living-room floor, and he has not succeeded. It would be less depressing to look at photos of a crime scene.

26. asinwreck Posted: October 20, 2022 at 09:17 PM (#6101885)

The Bucks have stepped up their game since the preseason.

27. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 20, 2022 at 09:27 PM (#6101887)

Still very early to be sure, but Embiid has been pretty bad and Harden has been really good in these first two games.

28. spivey Posted: October 20, 2022 at 09:43 PM (#6101889)

Jrue Holiday when he's asked to do more than be the 3rd or 4th guy on offense just kind of spazzes out. I love him, but Jesus.

29. smileyy Posted: October 20, 2022 at 10:05 PM (#6101893)

If I read the box score right, Matisse Thybulle got less than a minute of run. What's up with that? Has the shine come off of his star?

30. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: October 20, 2022 at 10:10 PM (#6101894)

Loooooot of empty seats for a Lakers home opener.

31. MHS Posted: October 20, 2022 at 10:10 PM (#6101895)

Harden has been really good in these first two games.

On one side of the ball. Has looked just biruuuutal on defense.

Bob Voulgaris

How the Sixers maximize their offensive efficiency with Embiid on the floor will be a season long challenge imo. Space eating bigs no matter how dominant they are make it really difficult to have top offense.

With harden (and maxey) it’s going to tough having a top defense…

32. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 20, 2022 at 10:44 PM (#6101897)

Was it known that Kawhi wasn't going to be playing in this game?

We're halfway through the second quarter and we haven't seen him. Is he going to play like 15 minutes per game?

33. PJ Martinez Posted: October 20, 2022 at 10:47 PM (#6101898)

This Leonard coming off the bench thing is pretty weird.

1) Can anyone think of a comparable situation, ever, where the best player on a team trying to win the title came off the bench? I can't.

2) We're halfway through the second quarter of their home opener, and he has yet to play. Is he basically going to sit games when it looks like the team can win without him?

Edit: half a coke to tshipman.

34. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: October 20, 2022 at 10:49 PM (#6101899)

They said the plan was for him to come off the bench in the bucks/sixers game. So pretty obvious he is on limited minutes right now, but couldn't tell you what the number is. I suppose they will mostly try and save him for crunch time (if necessary), so may not play at all unless the Lakers can make this a game.

Edit: Well I jinxed the end of that.

35. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: October 20, 2022 at 10:53 PM (#6101900)

Reggie Miller legitimately praising the Lakers for going 7/21 from three. lol

36. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 20, 2022 at 11:01 PM (#6101907)

They said the plan was for him to come off the bench in the bucks/sixers game. So pretty obvious he is on limited minutes right now, but couldn't tell you what the number is. I suppose they will mostly try and save him for crunch time (if necessary), so may not play at all unless the Lakers can make this a game.

Are they going to play him for 10 minutes a game, though????

Like, it's one thing to say that you want to keep him on a minutes limit and bringing him off the bench would help with that, but for the minutes limit to be this low seems insane 15 months after the injury.

Edit: also he looks bad.

37. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 21, 2022 at 12:24 AM (#6101912)

Difficult to overstate how bad Westbrook has been.

38. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: October 21, 2022 at 12:27 AM (#6101914)

I mean 0-11 including 0-6 from 3 does a pretty good job of stating how bad he has been.

Lakers since being praised for their 7/21 from three in the first half, have only made 2 since. 9-44. Absolutely brutal. 2-23 run.

39. Russlan is not Russian Posted: October 21, 2022 at 12:41 AM (#6101915)

I understand that the teams do need to shoot a lot of threes in the modern NBA but should a team like the Lakers shoot that as many as half their shots from three point range?

The Lakers don't have any chance to win a title with Westbrook on the roster. They have to to decide whether it is better to write off this season and let Westbrook's contract just expire or try to turn Westbrook into something else that might make them better. Obviously, this isn't new analysis but that's pretty much were they are. There is no way a Laker team with Westbrook is any good.

40. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 21, 2022 at 01:04 AM (#6101917)

If I read the box score right, Matisse Thybulle got less than a minute of run. What's up with that? Has the shine come off of his star?

the shine came off his star a long time ago. for the last year plus, he's been the coaching staff's favorite whipping boy.

but i'm still a big believer. i think he's going to make another team (and their fanbase) very happy when the sixers trade him at the deadline.

41. jmurph Posted: October 21, 2022 at 07:51 AM (#6101924)

42. spivey Posted: October 21, 2022 at 08:48 AM (#6101926)

I know spivey was all over this point in the preseason, but holy #### is Milwaukee's supporting cast old and filled with question marks. Obviously Middleton changes things a lot when he comes back and Ingles, if he's healthy, will help (but certainly doesn't make them any younger). Is Connaughton back soon?

It's annoying because the last couple of years have shown they're very clearly willing to spend (at normal team levels, not at Clipper/Warriors levels), they just aren't spending well. I think they're frankly setting up a situation where in 2 years Giannis is going to have to strongly consider leaving - especially if they don't win another title.

Connaughton should be back in a few weeks, just a calf strain. I think Middleton is around that timeframe, maybe a bit sooner. The East is deep enough to where you can't get off to too bad of a start or you're going to be fighting to stay out of the 7 seed all year. This is true in the West too. I think it makes the regular season more interesting this year. I suspect at least one contender will at least be hovering around the playin for much of the year, given how tightly bunched the teams are.

The offense will be shaky, but a lineup of Jrue/Middleton/Connaughton/Giannis/BroLo I trust against anyone.

Embiid has traditionally struggled against Milwaukee, and I think Lopez is a big part of it.

43. PJ Martinez Posted: October 21, 2022 at 09:56 AM (#6101936)

It's one game, obviously, but I'm feeling good about my Clippers skepticism for the moment.

W/r/t 39, one of the analysts I follow on Twitter was saying that a team built like the Lakers really shouldn't be taking that many threes.

44. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM (#6101947)

It's one game, obviously, but I'm feeling good about my Clippers skepticism for the moment.

I am kinda going back and forth. Kawhi being limited to 20 minutes is pretty bad for them, but John Wall looking decent is a pretty big find.

I'm trying to think about how they look against the Warriors and frankly, I think it's confusing.

45. jmurph Posted: October 21, 2022 at 11:31 AM (#6101950)

I think the path for them making a deep playoff run is they're deep enough to get a top 3 seed without wearing Kawhi and George down, and then they're healthy for the playoffs. No idea if it will work or if it's even a good idea, but that seems like the plan.

46. MHS Posted: October 21, 2022 at 11:47 AM (#6101953)

I cashed on the clippers last night, giving 5. It was dicey. I plan to continue to just shove money against the lakers all year. I’m 2-0 already on that one.

For tonight, I have:
Jazz +8
Celtics -2.5
Tor +2.5

On the fence in a couple of spots.

47. spivey Posted: October 21, 2022 at 12:03 PM (#6101956)

The Lakers "PGs", or at least PG sized players, (Westbrook, Beverly, Nunn) were 1-25 last night.

48. Moeball Posted: October 21, 2022 at 12:10 PM (#6101957)

#40 If Matisse is traded, where do you think would be his best fit or which team do you think he could help the most, and what do you think Philly could get in return?

49. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 21, 2022 at 01:05 PM (#6101968)

#40 If Matisse is traded, where do you think would be his best fit or which team do you think he could help the most, and what do you think Philly could get in return?

he could help any team in the playoffs (except for the sixers, apparently), but his best fit, imo, is going to be somewhere he can grow into a bigger role: IND, UTA, SAC, ATL, CHO, DAL, SAS.

as for what the sixers could get? i don't think they care very much because i don't think they rate him very highly. some combination of near-term flexibility and future considerations might be enough if you can catch the front office at the right time.

50. aberg Posted: October 21, 2022 at 01:28 PM (#6101971)

Wolves offense was sloppy as hell in game one, but it was also like the second time KAT and Rudy ever played together. Gobert's defensive impact was obvious immediately, so hoping that part is an easier fit. I heard JVG on Lowe's pod this week say a version of what I have said a bunch of times- KAT will still be a poor defender on the perimeter, but now he can be a poor defender with Gobert cleaning up behind him rather than being a poor defender struggling to clean up for others. Those differences showed up at the rim and defensive rebounding, which were both weak spots last year. Despite KAT and ANT both having bad offensive games, they got to the line a lot and made FTs. McDaniels was very solid at both ends. He and DLo are going to get tons of catch and shoot 3 opportunities. Shai and Giddey are both really good going downhill. They probably took too many jumpers, but it's hard to get much space with the lineups they play.

51. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: October 21, 2022 at 03:32 PM (#6102001)

Who's a good comp for Thybulle, Andre Roberson? But he was a disaster from 3pt, and an adventure at the FT line, Thybulle is below-average but not horrible, and he's a more disruptive defender than Roberson was.

52. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 21, 2022 at 03:35 PM (#6102002)

Who's a good comp for Thybulle, Andre Roberson? But he was a disaster from 3pt, and an adventure at the FT line, Thybulle is below-average but not horrible, and he's a more disruptive defender than Roberson was.

The league has changed a lot since then, though. In Roberson's best year, the league as a whole took 27 3s per game. That was 35 last year.

53. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: October 21, 2022 at 04:00 PM (#6102007)

True, and even before then, Roberson was barely playable. He was an acceptable option for fifth starter when the team also had peak Westbrook and KD.

So is the defense-only wing just an archetype that is going extinct, because that would be a shame.

54. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 21, 2022 at 04:25 PM (#6102010)

So is the defense-only wing just an archetype that is going extinct, because that would be a shame.

I think it's shifting. That archetype is now Bruce Brown/Gary Payton II. So you have to be able to playmake on the short roll now, and defend up on the positional spectrum.

55. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 21, 2022 at 05:31 PM (#6102021)

Who's a good comp for Thybulle, Andre Roberson? But he was a disaster from 3pt, and an adventure at the FT line, Thybulle is below-average but not horrible, and he's a more disruptive defender than Roberson was.

thybulle is currently teammates with one of them: pj tucker.

i'd also dispute the notion that thybulle is so offensively challenged that you need to play 4v5 with him on the court. he shot 50/31/79 last year, on 59% TS%, with a nearly 2:1 AST:TOV ratio. those are indicators of future growth potential as he enters his late 20s...as long as he can get away from the sixers. throw him on the spurs and he'll give you 14 PPG on 42% 3P shooting.

56. Hombre Brotani

Posted: October 21, 2022 at 05:42 PM (#6102022)

The Lakers "PGs", or at least PG sized players, (Westbrook, Beverly, Nunn) were 1-25 last night.

I miss Good Russell Westbrook. I feel awful hating him, but he is terrible.

57. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 21, 2022 at 05:45 PM (#6102023)

So far through two games, Matisse Thybulle has been used merely as a defensive substitution. He played a grand total of 23 seconds on opening night and then he played only 18 seconds in Thursday’s 90-88 loss to the Milwaukee Bucks.

Considering Thybulle has been a huge part of Philadelphia’s rotation in the past, this is a bit strange to see to begin the season.

“It’s just the other guys,” said coach Doc Rivers. “It’s a pecking order right now, but he’s working his butt off and he’ll play. He’ll get a chance to earn more minutes at some point for sure, but right now Danuel House and the De’Anthony (Melton) are in front of him. We’re going with a smaller rotation, but he’ll have a chance to earn minutes at some point.”

link

let's see....danuel house....5 points...37 minutes...2/6 shooting...0/3 from beyond the arc....

i guess thybulle just can't match up against that caliber of offensive production.

58. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 21, 2022 at 05:49 PM (#6102026)

pj tucker, danuel house and georges niang have combined for 129 minutes played, 19 points (5 per 36 minutes), 7/19 shooting, 2/11 3P and 14 rebounds (4 per 36 minutes).

clearly, there's no room in that rotation for thybulle to get any run.

59. Dolf Lucky Posted: October 21, 2022 at 06:04 PM (#6102028)

Every indication over the last decade has been that Westbrook is intelligent and thoughtful.

Which I lead with to say that he must be agonizing over how bad he has been. The velocity of decline has been staggering. I think you could an average suburban high school player from Middle America and he would shoot better than Westbrook.

My point is this: Isn’t this embarrassing? I get that he’s due a large amount of money and I don’t really mean to suggest that he forfeit a dime. But how do you not walk away if you suck this bad? Or fake an injury or long Covid or something?

60. Hombre Brotani

Posted: October 21, 2022 at 06:22 PM (#6102030)

Every indication over the last decade has been that Westbrook is intelligent and thoughtful.

Not only that, it's clear that he's playing his hardest and doing his best. It's agonizing to watch him. It's breathtaking not just how catastrophic that trade was and is, but how obviously terrible it was since the moment they made it. The Lakers were only a year removed from a title, and could have trotted out Caruso and KCP instead and made another run at it. Instead, we've got this. It's awful.

61. MHS Posted: October 21, 2022 at 07:10 PM (#6102033)

For tonight, I have:
Jazz +8
Celtics -2.5
Tor +2.5

I also have the Bulls +1.5, it was 2 earlier but I took too damn long to make up my mind.

62. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 21, 2022 at 07:51 PM (#6102036)

Not only that, it's clear that he's playing his hardest and doing his best.

Ehhhhh? Like he's trying the best in a particular style. He refuses at all to adapt and any change in the game around him or in his routine absolutely destroys him.

63. Hombre Brotani

Posted: October 21, 2022 at 07:56 PM (#6102037)

Like he's trying the best in a particular style. He refuses at all to adapt and any change in the game around him or in his routine absolutely destroys him.

That's why the trade was such an obvious mistake. Everything about his career told everyone that he can't/won't change his game, and the Lakers made that move anyways.

64. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 21, 2022 at 07:58 PM (#6102039)

Per Stein, the Lakers are looking at signing Mo Harkless.

"You know, Jeanie, as an agent I have advised a number of front offices to explore signing Mo Harkless, where the front office remains committed to contending, but without spending extra resources."

"Well did it work for those people?"

"Haha, no. It never does. I mean these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... but it might work for us!"

"Well, we could give it a shot."

"Great, we'll hammer out the details later. Right now, we've got an aging superstar to tell! LeBron, we're having a team meeting!"

65. MHS Posted: October 21, 2022 at 08:54 PM (#6102048)

In all seriousness, Noah Vondleh has been excellent in the first half versus Miami. 9 minutes, 5 reb, 2 blocks and just contesting everything, getting around screens with arms and hands everywhere. So surprised.

66. jmurph Posted: October 21, 2022 at 10:07 PM (#6102057)

Bam finished +20 in 35 minutes in a game his team lost by 7, and it didn’t feel particularly close for much of it. Butler had good on court numbers too but was weirdly passive for most of it.

They look like they need a lot more size.

67. asinwreck Posted: October 22, 2022 at 08:39 AM (#6102070)

Nikola Jokić enjoys having Bruce Brown on the Nuggets. As the Warriors charged back from a 20-point deficit late in the fourth, Bones Hyland turned the ball over to Jordan Poole under the Nuggets' basket. A nanosecond after Poole's shot went in, Jokić threw a Hail Mary down the court to Brown to get the two points back.

In the Nets-Raptors game, this version of Ben Simmons who does not even attempt to score looked much more effective distributing the ball and playing active defense without fouling out. Ball movement in general was a lot better for the Nets, and the game itself was wildly entertaining as each team went on a few big runs as the lead seesawed back and forth.

68. MHS Posted: October 22, 2022 at 12:27 PM (#6102084)

That Joker pass is was insane. Brown is a very nice player.

69. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: October 22, 2022 at 03:07 PM (#6102110)

Every indication over the last decade has been that Westbrook is intelligent and thoughtful.

Every? I don't think we would be having this discussion if that were true. The flaws in his game have been evident for a long, long time, yet he has done nothing at all to address them. Those are not physical flaws either. They are down to his mental approach to the game. And if anything he has doubled down, and exacerbated their impact. If he were as intelligent and thoughtful as you claim, he would have changed his style of play ages ago.

70. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 22, 2022 at 04:01 PM (#6102116)

If he were as intelligent and thoughtful as you claim, he would have changed his style of play ages ago.

However intelligent and thoughtful Westbrook is (and every indication I've seen is that he's an intelligent person who is very thoughtful interpersonally/as a teammate), as a basketball player it's been pretty clear for a while now that he's too prideful/stubborn to adjust how he plays and what he is trying to accomplish.

71. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: October 22, 2022 at 04:53 PM (#6102119)

Are the Jazz Title Contenders? My article...

They've had some good 3P luck and probably benefited from Wolves and Nuggets adjusting to their rosters + not taking Jazz seriously, but it is wild the level of energy, effort, and joy on this team vs. last year's. But also means they really need to find trades for at least a couple more of their better veteran players because as fun as this team has been so far, winning like 35 games would be a disaster.

72. spivey Posted: October 22, 2022 at 04:56 PM (#6102121)

It's also difficult to change the type of player you are, especially when you can't shoot. If knowing when to cut, being a good screener as a guard, etc. were easy to learn, everyone could learn it. If you had a player who wasn't a good cutter trying to cut a lot, I think they're likely to just get in the way much more often than not.

Westbrook's style was always on a razor's edge imo. He was just efficient enough to be an MVP level player imo, and able to drive good offense with the ball his hands. Losing some of that athleticism and as a result efficiency means he shouldn't have the ball in his hands a lot and doesn't have other skills to fall back on. I always think he had bad habits on defense but in his prime he was so incredibly athletic that he probably was ok there just due to how much havoc he could cause.

Westbrook is stubborn, but I'm not 100% sure that's wrong. I don't think trying to play a different style would make him better because we don't have any reason to think he'd be good at that style.

73. MHS Posted: October 22, 2022 at 06:42 PM (#6102128)

Only one bet tonight. Under 232 for Det & Ind

74. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 22, 2022 at 06:55 PM (#6102129)

Only one bet tonight. Under 232 for Det & Ind

at the risk of encouraging any continuing discussion of sports betting (which i find repugnant, not because i'm against sports betting in general, but because reading about other people gambling is boring as all ####):

how much money have you been able to withdraw from your various gambling accounts?

75. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 22, 2022 at 08:26 PM (#6102145)

This is a really bad loss for Philly. 13 more FTs to a Spurs team that is trying to lose and they still lose by 10.

76. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 22, 2022 at 09:59 PM (#6102150)

This is a really bad loss for Philly. 13 more FTs to a Spurs team that is trying to lose and they still lose by 10.

there's no such thing as a really bad loss in october.

77. spivey Posted: October 23, 2022 at 08:26 AM (#6102169)

Players and coaches don't try to lose, organizations try to lose. Clearly the Spurs and Jazz aren't trying enough because they have very solid players that aren't a part of their longterm future playing big minutes.

I'll be a bit annoyed if Houston and/or OKC get top 2 picks again.

78. spivey Posted: October 23, 2022 at 08:34 AM (#6102171)

there's no such thing as a really bad loss in october.

The difference between like the 4 seed and the 7 seed could be like 3 games. Losing home games to bad teams will happen, but it is bad. Spurs were also on the 2nd half of a road B2B.

79. asinwreck Posted: October 23, 2022 at 10:00 AM (#6102175)

there's no such thing as a really bad loss in october.

The Celtics disagree.

80. Athletic Supporter's restaurant with Ted Danson Posted: October 23, 2022 at 10:51 AM (#6102178)

The difference between like ~~the 4 seed~~ Wembanyama and ~~the 7 seed~~ Dariq Whitehead could be like 3 games. Losing home games to bad teams will happen, but it is ~~bad~~ good. Spurs were also on the 2nd half of a road B2B.

FTFY

81. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 23, 2022 at 12:45 PM (#6102183)

I feel like the names of draft prospects at this stage get more auto-generated each year.

82. Russlan is not Russian Posted: October 23, 2022 at 05:00 PM (#6102196)

The Lakers are 1-16 from 3 so far today, dipping under 20% so far for the season (20/101).

83. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 23, 2022 at 05:58 PM (#6102213)

They are now a BLISTERING 6/33, so they were EN FUEGO to the tune of 5/17 after Russlan's post.

They are a poor shooting team, but no one is this bad from 3. Pat Bev and Kendrick Nunn in particular have been awful vs. history. Even Russ isn't a true talent 8% shooter.

84. i don't vibrate on the frequency of the 57i66135 Posted: October 23, 2022 at 06:02 PM (#6102217)

They are now a BLISTERING 6/33, so they were EN FUEGO to the tune of 5/17 after Russlan's post.

They are a poor shooting team, but no one is this bad from 3. Pat Bev and Kendrick Nunn in particular have been awful vs. history. Even Russ isn't a true talent 8% shooter.

as a sixers fan, i can assure you that anything is possible.

85. bob gee Posted: October 23, 2022 at 06:12 PM (#6102224)

Austin Reaves was in instead of Russ for the Lakers final 2 offensive sets. I couldn't believe Westbrook pulled up for that shot - 27 seconds left in the game, 15 left on the shot clock, for a midrange.

86. Russlan is not Russian Posted: October 23, 2022 at 06:13 PM (#6102225)

The Lakers lose their 3rd straight to open the season, 106-104, and are outscored 11-2 over the last two minutes. It's getting ugly really early.

87. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 23, 2022 at 06:38 PM (#6102228)

Ehhh, I don't think this is actually that bad of a start.

The Lakers have lost to two good teams, the Clippers and the Warriors, and one mediocre team.

The entirety of their -28 through three games basically comes from the 3p line. Their opponents have shot 34.6% from 3, and the Lakers have shot 21.1%. The Lakers are a bad shooting team! The worst shooting team in the league last year was the OKC Thunder, who shot 32.3%. If the Lakers had shot like the worst team in the league, rather than at this ridiculously poor level, they would have 38 more points.

Obviously, there's offensive rebounding, yadda yadda, but you can explain basically the entirety of the poor performance by unsustainably poor shooting. If they play exactly the same, and just shoot at a 30th in the league level, they would have a positive point differential. That's not that bad of a start.

88. Russlan is not Russian Posted: October 23, 2022 at 06:49 PM (#6102231)

Obviously, there's offensive rebounding, yadda yadda, but you can explain basically the entirety of the poor performance by unsustainably poor shooting. If they play exactly the same, and just shoot at a 30th in the league level, they would have a positive point differential. That's not that bad of a start.

I do understand what you are saying but this team is hardly a lock to make the playoffs. They need to win some games that they should win.

89. smileyy Posted: October 23, 2022 at 06:50 PM (#6102232)

Westbrick (yeah I'm going there) is so convinced he can make that 18' jumper.

90. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: October 23, 2022 at 08:56 PM (#6102246)

Lu Dort is a goddamned dump truck.

91. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: October 23, 2022 at 08:57 PM (#6102247)

It is so ####### funny to me that Lauri Markkanen is having the best start to a season ever for him.

92. asinwreck Posted: October 23, 2022 at 09:54 PM (#6102253)

I'm watching the Yankees implode, but has anyone checked the score of the Warriors-Kings game tonight? Whoa.

93. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: October 23, 2022 at 09:58 PM (#6102254)

I'm watching the Yankees implode, but has anyone checked the score of the Warriors-Kings game tonight? Whoa.

Oh, that doesn't seem like that big a lead? What's the big .... oh.

94. spivey Posted: October 23, 2022 at 10:08 PM (#6102257)

Utah beat the Pels on the road. This is amazing, and somehow all Gobert's fault.

95. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: October 23, 2022 at 10:19 PM (#6102259)

I know I'm a giant homer but I have to think that Naz Reid is going to get paid soon.

96. rr: over-entitled starf@ck3r Posted: October 23, 2022 at 10:46 PM (#6102269)

Lakers: Russlan and shipman are both right. Through the lens of variance/regression, etc. the Lakers have looked OK. Two things I was looking for--James and Davis looking pretty good, and the defense looking better with the younger legs and Beverley--have happened. But today was a "scheduled win" that the team did not get. They were at home with two days off, they have not travelled out of California yet, and the opponent was a team on their level. They had a late lead and blew it, and now they go to Denver and Minnesota, so they will likely be 0-5 by Friday night. I think if you are a borderline team that actually wants to be in postseason, then there are bad October losses, and this was one.
Utah: Going into tonight, they were outshooting opponents from 3 .409 to .291. They were 13/38 tonight, but right on point, NO shot 29% from 3 and lost to Utah by 1.

97. Adam M

Posted: October 24, 2022 at 03:01 PM (#6102380)

I know three games doesn't tell us anything meaningful, but I still think it is funny that the last two undefeated teams in the Western Conference are the Blazers and the Jazzmans.

98. If on a winter's night a father of a newborn baby Posted: October 24, 2022 at 03:28 PM (#6102385)

This is amazing, and somehow all Gobert's fault.

There was a good discussion on everything being Gobert's fault on the latest Thinking Basketball podcast. I have limited time for hoops podcasts: it, the Lowe Post, and the Dunker's Spot made the three-man roster. The main points were

1) there are several examples of mostly- or only-drop bigs anchoring top playoff defenses despite having the same limitations as Gobert because their teammates are better defensive fits (the thought of Rudy playing the Lopez role behind Giannis and Jrue is terrifying to contemplate), but
2) KAT is someone who has historically been exploitable in exactly the ways Rudy has trouble covering up.

It doesn't strike me as a death sentence for their roster--I don't think KAT has that much worse physical tools defensively than old man Al Horford, for example--but he's got far enough to go with his consistency and technique that I wonder how their defensive strengths and weaknesses will shake out this year.

99. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 24, 2022 at 03:37 PM (#6102389)

I think it is way too early to forecast doom and gloom for the TW defense (OK, it is never too early to forecast such for the Wolves, and yes, I know you were not doing that).

They have shown flashes, which given the limited playing time is not too bad. I was on vacation so I am still behind in watching the most recent game though. If come 2023 their defense is bad, then I will be worried. It still won't be Gobert's faulty though (I listened to the same podcast this morning).

100. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: October 24, 2022 at 04:05 PM (#6102390)

Markkanen also had a great summer, so it's possible he has taken a step forward. If so I'd still want Jazz to just use that improvement to trade him for future assets, but the way he's playing he looks like he'd be such a nice fit on so many rosters. Any Cavs or Bulls fans have a feel for how bad he is defensively? On/Off has him quite negative last year, but basically neutral/slight positive the two seasons before that. I'd expect him to be at least below average but if he's not a disaster on D he's a pretty nice player.

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