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Wednesday, October 19, 2022

2022-23 NBA Kick-Off Thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and their fathers are all the District Attorney.

Hombre Brotani Posted: October 19, 2022 at 10:09 PM | 608 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

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   101. aberg Posted: October 24, 2022 at 04:29 PM (#6102402)
1) there are several examples of mostly- or only-drop bigs anchoring top playoff defenses despite having the same limitations as Gobert because their teammates are better defensive fits (the thought of Rudy playing the Lopez role behind Giannis and Jrue is terrifying to contemplate), but
2) KAT is someone who has historically been exploitable in exactly the ways Rudy has trouble covering up.


I think #1 is reasonable, but I don't follow #2. KAT has been exploitable because he's a poor rim protector/PNR big and fouls too much against bigger centers. Rudy has never been anything but a rim protector, so I don't understand how they can say he has had trouble covering up for other bigs who are poor rim defenders. More generally, KAT has never been a regular perimeter defender (there were dashes of it with Gorgui and Gibson where he wasn't actually that bad), so it's hard to say anything about empirical evidence of how they will play together.

Honestly, the defense through three games has been fine. They gave up a lot of 3s to so-so 3 point shooters in the first two games and looked really good in the parts I saw of game three. The offense has been worse than the defense so far, but there's lots of time to work on that.
   102. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 24, 2022 at 05:00 PM (#6102406)
From what I have seen Ant is still not as consistently "in games" as I would like, but the flashes seem to be getting better and it is still early in the season, he and everyone else are still learning to play together.

It sounds like he had a game in Game #3 though. Don't know about his defense, which is what I am most watching for.
   103. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: October 24, 2022 at 05:05 PM (#6102408)
It sounds like he had a game in Game #3 though. Don't know about his defense, which is what I am most watching for.


I watched most of last night's game, and it was sloppy.
   104. asinwreck Posted: October 24, 2022 at 05:21 PM (#6102410)
I am hoping that this start helps propel the Blazers to the playoffs, because I would like that draft pick to convey to the Bulls.
   105. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: October 24, 2022 at 06:16 PM (#6102429)
From the old thread:

What is the Lakers path forward?

They have James and Davis signed for two more seasons (last year a PO for both). The only other commitments past this season are $1.7m to Max Christie and a $2.6m player option for Damian Jones. That is, nothing.

Do they just write off this season as a loss, let everyone go, and try to sign a team of useful/complementary FA to ride with the big two next year?

Or would they trade James and Davis to contenders and bottom out? Bottoming out worked last time, they built up a bunch of assets, signed LBJ, then traded most of those assets for AD and won a championship.


Pelinka supposedly:

1. Does not want to trade two FRPs in a Westbrook deal (one is fine).
2. Does not want to add salary commitments that would affect Summer 2023.

Also, like I said, Jeanie Buss extended him through '26 (same as Ham). Pelinka also said that he wants to wait 20 games. So, nothing will happen for a little while, probably, and as I have said a few times, I can't see Jeanie authorizing a trade of either of the satrs unless they want out and say so in public.
   106. tshipman Posted: October 24, 2022 at 08:42 PM (#6102459)
Presumably, Ainge will be desperate to make a.move now that Utah has gotten off to the disastrous start.

More seriously, I do think that the Myles Turner/Hield deal will happen by about December. Turner is injured again and Hield is taking minutes away from Mathurin
   107. asinwreck Posted: October 24, 2022 at 09:21 PM (#6102462)
The Bulls-Celtics game is wild. Bulls were down 19, then up 11 in the first half.
   108. spivey Posted: October 24, 2022 at 09:44 PM (#6102467)
San Antonio beating Minnesota by 30 on the road obviously
   109. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: October 24, 2022 at 10:46 PM (#6102478)
Clutch loss by the Jazz to Houston tonight. Got to see if they can follow that up on Wednesday.
   110. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: October 25, 2022 at 12:18 AM (#6102488)
ESPN Stats & Info
@ESPNStatsInfo
·
Follow
The Lakers are 25-118 from 3-point range through 3 games this season.

In NBA history, there have been over 6,100 instances of a team taking at least 100 threes over a 3-game span.

Their 21.2% is the second-lowest of any of them, only ahead of a span from the 2018 Hawks (21.0%)
   111. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: October 25, 2022 at 09:16 AM (#6102493)
I did not expect either the Bulls or the Bears to win last night, much less blow out the Celtics and Patriots. Regardless, #### Boston, this is the highest point of the Chicago sports calendar for some time.

---

Bulls are 2-2, which is about what you'd expect from their schedule. However, I wouldn't have guessed they'd beat the Heat and Celtics and lose to the Wizards and Cavs (minus Garland, in Chicago). Similar to the discussion on the Lakers the last page to a lesser extreme, the Bulls are getting killed by 3's - Bulls are shooting 32.7% with 9 made 3s per game while their opponents are shooting 43.4% with 14 makes per game. I expect that gap to close some, even though the Bulls shoot quite a bit fewer 3's than most teams to begin with and they didn't exactly prioritize shooting this offseason; their opponents percentage will go down too.

DeRozan has continued his 30's revival, Ayo looks really good, Vuc is trying harder on defense, LaVine has looked good in the 2 games he's played so far, but by far the biggest negative has been Pat Williams. He looks just as terrible, tentative, and borderline worthless as ever; his defense has been poor and he's basically not ever registering as playing when he's in there. The Bulls have looked so much better with either JaVonte Green or Derrick Jones, Jr playing the 4. Williams still is starting, but also getting mop up minutes. He should absolutely move to the bottom of the current 11 man rotation until they figure out what's going on there (maybe what's going on is just that he's bad). Drummond has looked somewhat playable, but I still hate watching him; Dragic has been surprisingly useful and has been enjoyable to watch.

   112. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: October 25, 2022 at 09:58 AM (#6102498)
Early season results are so funny. Everyone's pick to implode, Portland, is the only 4-0 team. Leading candidates for worst team (Utah, Spurs) are both 3-1. Popular breakout pick Orlando is 0-4
   113. jmurph Posted: October 25, 2022 at 11:16 AM (#6102516)
Very early days but if guys are going to start rolling the ball up the court without touching it to run clock when there's still like 4+ minutes to go in the game, it's going to get pretty annoying.
   114. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: October 25, 2022 at 01:05 PM (#6102532)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine ·58m
The Pelicans have downgraded Zion Williamson (Right Posterior Hip / Low Back Contusion) and Herb Jones (Right Knee Hyperextension) to OUT for tonight’s home game against Dallas.


Well, it was fun while it lasted.

Very early days but if guys are going to start rolling the ball up the court without touching it to run clock when there's still like 4+ minutes to go in the game, it's going to get pretty annoying.

It's pretty easy for the defense to stop that from happening.
   115. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 25, 2022 at 02:16 PM (#6102536)
Popular breakout pick Orlando is 0-4


What the hell circles do you frequent? Orlando was always going to be terrible this year. You can quibble over whether it's on purpose or not, but there was never any scenario where the Magic were good this year.
   116. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 25, 2022 at 02:17 PM (#6102538)
Orlando has some very interesting pieces though. I think they have some potential ... you know next year or maybe 2 to 3 years from now.
   117. jmurph Posted: October 25, 2022 at 02:21 PM (#6102539)
What the hell circles do you frequent? Orlando was always going to be terrible this year. You can quibble over whether it's on purpose or not, but there was never any scenario where the Magic were good this year.

I'd guess he's referring to literally every single NBA podcast picking the over for Orlando wins (it's a low number, but still).
   118. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 25, 2022 at 02:27 PM (#6102540)
I think this is just definitional. Orlando can be many things at once, have a bad record, be better than the over/under projections, have interesting pieces, and so on. Calling them a breakout is ... not what I would do, but I likely would have also picked the over before the season. If I bet.
   119. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: October 25, 2022 at 03:27 PM (#6102546)
Yes, maybe breakout was too strong, jmurph has it right. Orlando and Sacramento (and to a lesser extent, Detroit) were popular "over" picks.
   120. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: October 25, 2022 at 04:17 PM (#6102557)
I got talked into over Sacramento and under Portland by listening to a few too many podcasts. Not that I made large bets or anything, but I'd rather have my lunch money back than either of those tickets right now.
   121. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 25, 2022 at 04:45 PM (#6102565)
Not that I made large bets or anything, but I'd rather have my lunch money back than either of those tickets right now.

We're also, of course, four games into the season. A quick peek at 3p variance shows Sacramento's opponents shooting 41% while Portland is giving up 33% (and hitting 39.5%). Those may or may not have been good bets, but I wouldn't toss the tickets just yet, anyway.
   122. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 25, 2022 at 04:48 PM (#6102566)
Ouch. And it hurts because enough of it is true.

Lackluster start, play, far from the ‘greatness’ that was promised by the Wolves before the season

Through the first four games of the 2022-23 NBA season, the Minnesota Timberwolves have performed with an unlikable mixture of indolence and arrogance, disrespecting the game that gives them their livelihood.

What is arguably the most talented roster in the 34-year history of the franchise is assuming superiority without deigning to exert the mental focus, physical exertion and generosity of spirit required to make it so. They are carving out an identity akin to an Ivy League graduate just appointed executive vice president of daddy’s company.

This malaise is pervasive enough that the team’s inevitable comeuppance has occurred in the fourth game of the season Monday night at Target Center, when an opponent from San Antonio with a fraction of the Wolves’ skills and pedigree embarrassed them with a simple mixture of fundamentals and sweat equity.


   123. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 25, 2022 at 04:52 PM (#6102569)
Ouch. And it hurts because enough of it is true.
jimmy butler cannot fail; jimmy butler can only be failed.
   124. Mike A Posted: October 25, 2022 at 04:56 PM (#6102571)
DARKO, RAPTOR, and BPI all projected 24 wins for the Magic. So there wasn't a ton of optimism there.

(As a side, averaging those three had the Blazers at 38 wins, Kings 33)
   125. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: October 25, 2022 at 06:35 PM (#6102599)
@ShamsCharania
Lakers are listing Russell Westbrook (hamstring) as doubtful to play Wednesday vs. Nuggets.


Do Lakers panic and trade both 1RP to get off him and fill out the roster or figure they're not good enough anyway and punt on contending?
   126. smileyy Posted: October 25, 2022 at 06:43 PM (#6102604)
I'd list his injury as "jumpshots; eagerness to take said jumpshots"
   127. Hombre Brotani Posted: October 25, 2022 at 06:53 PM (#6102606)
I chose to blame injuries for Westbrook's 3-point shooting. He's way better -- at least doubly so better! -- than the 8.3% (1-12) he's shooting now.
   128. spivey Posted: October 26, 2022 at 09:44 AM (#6102674)
Part of the problem with dealing Westbrook is depending on what you get back it could fill up your cap space and limit what you can do next offseason. And if you're dealing for expiring contracts, I think it's fair to not think you should not need to give up 2 FRPs, especially since I don't think a lot of these guys really make them a contender (though the bar to being a contender I think is lower than normal this year so maybe it would).

I wonder if they can get a lot of Utah stuff for pretty cheap because Utah doesn't want to be winning all these games.




   129. jmurph Posted: October 26, 2022 at 10:40 AM (#6102679)
Part of the problem with dealing Westbrook is depending on what you get back it could fill up your cap space and limit what you can do next offseason.

But then I think the question is why are you bothering to employ LeBron and Davis if you're not actually trying to win? Just shop Davis at that point and try to do a quick pivot if you're basically punting on a year (I have no idea what kind of market Davis would have, I haven't put any thought into this!).
   130. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: October 26, 2022 at 11:06 AM (#6102681)
But then I think the question is why are you bothering to employ LeBron and Davis if you're not actually trying to win? Just shop Davis at that point and try to do a quick pivot if you're basically punting on a year (I have no idea what kind of market Davis would have, I haven't put any thought into this!).


Wouldn't you want to keep Davis and build around him? I'd like to see a LeBron trade instead.
   131. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: October 26, 2022 at 11:21 AM (#6102684)
Random tweet:

MLS is considering big changes to its playoff format, sources tell me and
@MLSist - .League weighing an increase from current total of 13 playoff games to ~30.

One potential avenue to get there? Shift to World Cup-style competition w/ 4 groups of 4 teams.


I'm still convinced NBA needs to do something weird like this. The specifics I can't say for sure. It'll never happen but here's my post about it for the season.
   132. Willard Baseball Posted: October 26, 2022 at 11:59 AM (#6102686)
What could you get for Anthony Davis? I don't see Hield/Turner for Westbrook really helping them get further than 1st round.

But if you trade AD, let Westbrook walk after season, you can re-tool for next year. Obviously, LeBron has to be on board, but he has to see this isn't going to work this year.

   133. jmurph Posted: October 26, 2022 at 12:10 PM (#6102687)
Wouldn't you want to keep Davis and build around him? I'd like to see a LeBron trade instead.

They have him under contract for one more year after this one, during which he'll turn 31, and then he has an opt-out. Do you definitely want to be the team to pay Davis for his age 31-36 years?

(I don't actually think they should trade Davis, I think they should add talent around those two. I just don't get the idea that they shouldn't go for it this year given where they are.)
   134. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 26, 2022 at 12:10 PM (#6102688)
What could you get for Anthony Davis? I don't see Hield/Turner for Westbrook really helping them get further than 1st round.
trade machine: who says no?
   135. Willard Baseball Posted: October 26, 2022 at 12:49 PM (#6102690)
It is hard to imagine a worse trade for the Lakers than that one. They might play entire games where nobody but LeBron made a 3.
   136. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 26, 2022 at 01:01 PM (#6102692)
It is hard to imagine a worse trade for the Lakers than that one. They might play entire games where nobody but LeBron made a 3.
you're just not thinking inside the box.
   137. spivey Posted: October 26, 2022 at 01:14 PM (#6102693)
But then I think the question is why are you bothering to employ LeBron and Davis if you're not actually trying to win? Just shop Davis at that point and try to do a quick pivot if you're basically punting on a year (I have no idea what kind of market Davis would have, I haven't put any thought into this!).


They are trying to win. Win championships.

I think it's reasonable to think not trying to win this year and then having a better chance to win the next couple of years being a player in FA with cap space gives you more xRINGZZ than trading for Hield and Turner and committing to that for the rest of LeBron's career.

None of the options are good. The Westbrook deal will go down as one of the worst in history, I think. Especially this type of deal, where you immediately go from contender to bad.
   138. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: October 26, 2022 at 01:17 PM (#6102694)
The beautiful thing about the Westbrook deal is that not only did it kneecap a contender, immediately, *everybody knew it was going to kneecap that contender*.
   139. The Mighty Quintana Posted: October 26, 2022 at 01:26 PM (#6102695)
Top 10 in rebounds: 9 foreigners and LeBron. Doesn't anyone in America box out anymore?
   140. jmurph Posted: October 26, 2022 at 01:51 PM (#6102699)
than trading for Hield and Turner and committing to that for the rest of LeBron's career.

I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but Turner is up after this year and Hield only has one more year for a little over $19 million, neither are longterm commitments.
   141. DCA Posted: October 26, 2022 at 02:08 PM (#6102702)
Wouldn't you want to keep Davis and build around him? I'd like to see a LeBron trade instead.

Can't be done in-season. Trade deadline is 2/9 and LeBron can't be dealt until 2/14 due to the timing of his extension.
   142. DCA Posted: October 26, 2022 at 02:10 PM (#6102703)
I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but Turner is up after this year and Hield only has one more year for a little over $19 million, neither are longterm commitments.

If you aren't going to resign Turner, why give up picks to add him to a team that's likely going nowhere?
   143. Willard Baseball Posted: October 26, 2022 at 02:16 PM (#6102704)
Agreed. Makes zero sense to do the Westbrook for Hield/Turner trade now.

If a trade is to be made, it has to be AD. Would Bulls be interested? Atlanta? Brooklyn? Miami? Dallas?

I would contact those guys and see who thinks AD puts them over the top this year or next and re-set.
   144. asinwreck Posted: October 26, 2022 at 05:05 PM (#6102727)
   145. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 26, 2022 at 05:29 PM (#6102733)
(Perhaps it does, but the link does not)
   146. asinwreck Posted: October 26, 2022 at 06:10 PM (#6102737)
   147. tshipman Posted: October 26, 2022 at 09:04 PM (#6102755)
None of the options are good. The Westbrook deal will go down as one of the worst in history, I think. Especially this type of deal, where you immediately go from contender to bad.


I think there's a little revisionist history going on about the 2021 Lakers. They had a ton of injuries, but ended up as just the 7th seed. They lost in the first round due to those injuries.

No team in the 7th seed is a real contender--it's just too hard to win 4 series on the road.

The 2021 Lakers 3rd best player was probably Alex Caruso, who played just 21 minutes per game. The Lakers traded Montrezl Harrell, KCP and Kyle Kuzma off that team. Only KCP was a positive contributor to the team. KCP

The execution of the Westbrook trade was awful. He was a terrible fit, who immediately made the team worse. But the counterfactual where they don't trade for Westbrook wouldn't have made them a contender.

The concept of the Westbrook trade, of trading multiple players who were negative contributors to take a risk that had championship upside, was the right move. Keeping KCP/Kuzma and Harrell wouldn't have made them a contender. Instead of being the 11th seed last year, they would have been the 8th seed.

The league is outcome oriented, but trading flotsam for volatility is the right process. There's no benefit to locking in the 8th seed.
   148. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 26, 2022 at 09:25 PM (#6102757)
Granted, samples are tiny right now, but when Irving and Durant have shared the floor with Simmons, the Nets have been outscored by 23.1 points per 100 possessions, according to Cleaning the Glass. And when Simmons is on the bench, lineups led by Irving and Durant have beaten teams by 10.4 points per 100 possessions.
...
most importantly, Simmons needs to find himself again—be the player who made three straight All-Star teams from 2019 to 2021. Unless he becomes an all-world defender again, it’s hard to forgive his offensive shortcomings. And unless he finds his place on offense, there won’t be a spot for him long term in Brooklyn. The season is young, but the clock is ticking fast.
link
   149. spivey Posted: October 26, 2022 at 10:16 PM (#6102762)
Milwaukee off to a good start without 2 of their 5 best guys. Giannis is locked in this season.
   150. spivey Posted: October 26, 2022 at 10:19 PM (#6102763)
No team in the 7th seed is a real contender--it's just too hard to win 4 series on the road.


That year, fine. But they looked game to beat Phoenix anyways, the conference opened up quite a bit that year, and if they just kept those guys and did your standard add TPMLE and other TP minimums, they should have had a team the next year that would have come into the year as a contender.
   151. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 27, 2022 at 12:28 AM (#6102766)
i wouldn't be too surprised if the sixers have a new coach before christmas.
   152. jmurph Posted: October 27, 2022 at 08:58 AM (#6102777)
i wouldn't be too surprised if the sixers have a new coach before christmas.

Philly and Brooklyn should maybe do a coach trade, see how it goes.
   153. asinwreck Posted: October 27, 2022 at 09:26 AM (#6102778)
The Post and Daily News would be grateful for a Ben Simmons-Doc Rivers reunion.
   154. DCA Posted: October 27, 2022 at 11:09 AM (#6102789)
Who says no?

EDIT: forgot that Wolfs have no tradeable picks to make that work.
   155. jmurph Posted: October 27, 2022 at 11:46 AM (#6102802)
NBA Communications @NBAPR
The NBA today announced that all Boulogne-Levallois Metropolitans 92 games – featuring French star and top 2023 NBA Draft prospect Victor Wembanyama – will be available for free on the new NBA App.
   156. Moeball Posted: October 27, 2022 at 11:59 AM (#6102804)
The comments above about how being a #7 or #8 seed is pretty much useless got me to thinking. It is the reality in the NBA, if you're that low and barely make the playoffs, you have virtually zero chance of winning the title. You may have gotten invited to the dance, but you're only going to be on the edges, you won't be in the middle of the dance floor. Unlike baseball, the NBA regular season seems to be a much better indicator of who the real contenders are and the pretenders get weeded out of the playoffs pretty quickly. In MLB, on the other hand, Atlanta was the lowest playoff seed last year yet won the World Series and Philadelphia may duplicate that this year. I can't imagine an NBA team matching that feat, but I guess part of the reason is that the bottom NBA seeds are often sub .500 teams, which really have no business being in the playoffs anyways. At least the Phillies were 12 games over .500 this year so they are a somewhat competitive team.
   157. PJ Martinez Posted: October 27, 2022 at 12:29 PM (#6102811)
I think the bigger factor is that game-to-game results are more random in baseball, so, unlike with basketball, to have the better team end up on top in most series you would need those series to be significantly longer than best-of-seven. To wit:
As we expected, the NBA seems to produce postseason champions most aligned with regular season performance. The long format of the seven-game series and reduced likelihood of upsets on account of the high number of possessions have resulted in the best regular season team winning eight of the nineteen possible championships.
   158. Thok Posted: October 27, 2022 at 12:34 PM (#6102812)
Weirdly, 8 seeds have done slightly better in the playoffs than 7 seeds (this is almost certainly just a small sample size issue, given how rarely either seed wins a series).
   159. DCA Posted: October 27, 2022 at 12:49 PM (#6102813)
I don't think the 7th seed is obviously non-viable, and having to win once before you lose twice isn't a huge deal (if you can't do that, sure, 4 series is too much).

But a good team that coasts through the regular season, maybe with some injuries, coming together at the right time, that can work. Rockets winning in 94-95 as the 6th seed, spotting 10+ games to each of their 4 opponents, comes to mind. But they were the defending champs, and added Drexler midseason.

Also some of the years when the West was broadly dominant and the East terrible I could see it happening. Many years the #7 team had 50 wins or better and might be nearly as good or better than most of the higher seeds.
   160. spivey Posted: October 27, 2022 at 01:15 PM (#6102818)
Another team in this camp is the 09-10 Celtics, who were 50-32 but probably the equivalent of a 7 seed in the West.

The Lakers were a 7 seed, but even with the injuries had a top 10 SRS, #1 defense, and if LeBron and AD were healthy the best defense and LeBron-ball on offense I think makes you a contender. Of course, AD wasn't fully healthy and it was a factor in why they were eliminated.
   161. jmurph Posted: October 27, 2022 at 01:23 PM (#6102820)
The Lakers were a 7 seed, but even with the injuries had a top 10 SRS, #1 defense, and if LeBron and AD were healthy the best defense and LeBron-ball on offense I think makes you a contender. Of course, AD wasn't fully healthy and it was a factor in why they were eliminated.

Yeah I can easily see the league shifting to a place in which really strong playoff contenders end up finishing 5th or 6th in a close conference due to rest and injuries. It's still going to be a difficult path for those teams, obviously.
   162. jmurph Posted: October 27, 2022 at 01:31 PM (#6102821)
I don't care how good he is or used to be, this is the worst basketball in the league. I'd rather watch Westbrook miss 100 straight midrangers than this.
   163. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: October 27, 2022 at 01:31 PM (#6102822)
Also think the league being more wide open these days makes the lower seeds more viable. Post-Durant Warriors there hasn't been a heavy title favorite, and the odds for the pre-season favorite this year seem to be longer than they've been going back decades.

IDK if that's a trend that will continue but I don't see another super-team on the horizon so maybe it will.
   164. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 27, 2022 at 01:44 PM (#6102828)
I don't care how good he is or used to be, this is the worst basketball in the league. I'd rather watch Westbrook miss 100 straight midrangers than this.
i mean, harden was clearly fouled. van vleet raked him across both arms, and the refs chose not to call it because, well... you know...
   165. jmurph Posted: October 27, 2022 at 01:51 PM (#6102829)
and the refs chose not to call it because, well... you know...

Because he does it 20 times a game?

(It does actually look like it might have been a foul, but it's hard to tell from that angle.)
   166. spivey Posted: October 27, 2022 at 01:59 PM (#6102830)
Joel Embiid doesn't know what else he has to do to win the MVP.
   167. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 27, 2022 at 01:59 PM (#6102831)
Because he does it 20 times a game?
getting fouled 20 times per game doesn't mean you aren't fouled 20 times per game.
(It does actually look like it might have been a foul, but it's hard to tell from that angle.)
ball don't lie. if van vleet got all ball, the ball wouldn't have flown straight up with zero spin, it would have gone at a <45 degree angle with side spin.
   168. jmurph Posted: October 27, 2022 at 02:24 PM (#6102837)
Yeah good luck with that!
   169. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 27, 2022 at 03:29 PM (#6102853)
There is a whole lot of terrible in that clip. The call or non-call is way down the list.
   170. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: October 27, 2022 at 03:46 PM (#6102858)
Joel Embiid doesn't know what else he has to do to win the MVP.

Unrelated? I know those clips are somewhat unfair to him, but also...
   171. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 27, 2022 at 07:06 PM (#6102896)
There is a whole lot of terrible in that clip. The call or non-call is way down the list.
the rest of the terrible doesn't happen if the call is made.

i know that's not as easy to laugh at, but it's not untrue.
Unrelated? I know those clips are somewhat unfair to him, but also...
1: spread pnr, dunker spot uncovered. that's a coaching diff.
2: tyrese maxey just got lost. his initial double was good, but he needed to rotate back to his guy after he bit down on achiuwa(?).
3: danuel house got lost. he doubled the corner 3, for whatever reason, leaving his own guy a free runway to the rim.
4: that's just a shot that went in.
5: that's a bad switch between embiid and tharris. embiid is trying to defend two people, each 10' away from him, he actually tells tharris to stay on the other side of the floor, but then not half a second later, tharris wanders across the lane and leaving the backdoor wide open.
6: guy made a shot.
7: house got caught in a mismatch; embiid tried to "show", but got caught between the fart and the poop. that one's on him. also: dunker spot.


that being said, the fact that there are so many breakdowns is obviously a bigger problem than any individual occurrence.
   172. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 27, 2022 at 07:51 PM (#6102900)
as for what i'd do to get #### going in the right direction:

-- i'd put thybulle in the starting lineup, instead of tucker, and play him 30+ minutes per game. sink or swim.
-- i'd trim james harden's minutes down to about 30 MPG. try to keep him fresh in the longer term, and maybe goad him into spending 2% more effort on running back on defense.
-- i'd leave tharris on the floor 46 minutes per game. i still don't like him, and he's still not good, but doing nothing for 46 minutes per game shouldn't be more tiring for him than doing nothing for 35 minutes.
-- i'd play paul reed off the bench to inject more energy and rebounding.
-- i'd get georges niang and danuel house out of the rotation. they are not the answer to this team's problems right now.
-- my main bench roles would go to melton, tucker and reed, with a sprinkling of danuel house when the offense is sputtering.
   173. spivey Posted: October 27, 2022 at 09:37 PM (#6102910)
Still cannot believe Royce O'Neale fetched a FRP. The last asset to add to a contending team, and they do that.

I'd want the GM fired, too.
   174. spivey Posted: October 27, 2022 at 09:46 PM (#6102911)
Some of those are whatever. Like Boucher shooting a high arcing shot from the 12 foot baseline area which can't be more than a 25% shot.

Others are probably good not contests. If you're late on the challenge they call the foul a ton no matter what.

But some of those are bad. Like the 3rd one, he should getting off the floor and challenging that shot imo, it's a straight line drive almost right at him. A DPOY would be doing that. Second one I think is not great either, FVV has a defender on his back, doesn't have anywhere to go, Embiid needs to keep the gap between them a bit wider so he's in that in between area of contesting the driver but also the rim. Draymond is great at that.

I just don't believe in their stars.

At the same time, I can understand thinking that talent should win out.
   175. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 27, 2022 at 10:57 PM (#6102925)
I just don't believe in their stars.

At the same time, I can understand thinking that talent should win out.
at least the sixers' path to a championship is relatively straitforward: turn tharris into shane battier/shawn marrion/tayshaun prince (or you know, maybe just draft him).
   176. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 27, 2022 at 11:09 PM (#6102927)
Early season results are so funny. Everyone's pick to implode, Portland, is the only 4-0 team. Leading candidates for worst team (Utah, Spurs) are both 3-1. Popular breakout pick Orlando is 0-4
fwiw:
538. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 15, 2022 at 10:45 AM (#6100855)
More credibly, Vegas has them 10th in the West, and I think that based on their preseason, they may be among the very worst teams in the league.
putting aside lillard and nurkic for a moment...

jerami grant, justice winslow, nassir little and josh hart are the kind of versatile, multi-faceted swiss-army knives that modern teams are supposed to build around. despite the organization overall being an absolute shitshow, their roster isn't. their core isn't old and beat up; nor is it young and woefully inexperienced; they have a lot of players at peak/prime age, and teams that are built with that kind of core don't usually fall on their face. oh yeah, and unlike most of the teams that are stuck in the bottom-mid tier, they have a legit star PG who can singlehandedly win games for them.


basically, i'm not buying them as being one of the 5 worst teams in the NBA. especially not when those teams that are legitimately bad will be tanking their asses off from day 1 of the season.
   177. tshipman Posted: October 27, 2022 at 11:59 PM (#6102931)
The Clippers have played 5 games, and Kawhi Leonard has played 42 minutes total in those 5 games.

The Kawhi saga is the most confusing #### imaginable at this point. The Clippers are largely skating by without criticism because the Nets and Lakers are tire fires, but they are low key also bad.
   178. jmurph Posted: October 28, 2022 at 07:38 AM (#6102934)
The Clippers have played 5 games, and Kawhi Leonard has played 42 minutes total in those 5 games.

The Kawhi saga is the most confusing #### imaginable at this point. The Clippers are largely skating by without criticism because the Nets and Lakers are tire fires, but they are low key also bad.

It's really pretty incredible.
   179. spivey Posted: October 28, 2022 at 08:50 AM (#6102938)
Kawhi's career is probably the weirdest one I can think of, at least for the NBA. Speaking of teams that could maybe be a 7th seed but since potentially be a contender.
   180. Thok Posted: October 28, 2022 at 10:36 AM (#6102944)
Kawhi doesn't really have a lot to play for in the regular season at this point in his career. He's already a Hall of Fame lock (given his two Finals MVPs) and he's not really chasing any career milestones. Maybe he could put together than MVP or Defensive Player of the Year case if he actually played 75 games, but it's not like he needs either of those.
   181. tshipman Posted: October 28, 2022 at 10:48 AM (#6102946)
Kawhi doesn't really have a lot to play for in the regular season at this point in his career. He's already a Hall of Fame lock (given his two Finals MVPs) and he's not really chasing any career milestones. Maybe he could put together than MVP or Defensive Player of the Year case if he actually played 75 games, but it's not like he needs either of those.


I think it's pretty basic to expect a basketball player play basketball at some point.
   182. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: October 28, 2022 at 11:01 AM (#6102949)
Kawhi is one of my favorite players, but this situation is just so wild. He's 32 and coming off a knee injury, you'd think he and the team would want to give him some run just to see what's left. They're ever doing a good job of hiding that his body is broken, or just really afraid that they WILL break him.
   183. jmurph Posted: October 28, 2022 at 11:16 AM (#6102950)
Kawhi is one of my favorite players, but this situation is just so wild. He's 32 and coming off a knee injury, you'd think he and the team would want to give him some run just to see what's left. They're ever doing a good job of hiding that his body is broken, or just really afraid that they WILL break him.

I'd say they're doing a pretty BAD job of hiding that his body is broken, because my strong assumption at this point is he can't handle even a part-time workload.
   184. spivey Posted: October 28, 2022 at 11:20 AM (#6102952)
I also think the days of Kawhi being an elite defender are well over. He's much closer to late era LeBron. Elite efficiency on offense and due to his size it's very difficult to stop, and can maybe have spurts of high level defense but can't sustain it full games or series.
   185. PJ Martinez Posted: October 28, 2022 at 12:33 PM (#6102962)
Kawhi doesn't really have a lot to play for in the regular season at this point in his career.
If he doesn't play in the regular season, I don't think it's a given that his team has a postseason to play in. Maybe, maybe not.
   186. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 28, 2022 at 02:00 PM (#6102971)
I'd say they're doing a pretty BAD job of hiding that his body is broken, because my strong assumption at this point is he can't handle even a part-time workload.

The optimistic take is that they're being very cautious bringing him back up to playing speed because of the combo of ACL rehab and the quadricep tendinopathy he'll always be dealing with to some degree (IIRC), right? That doesn't mean that all is well or that he'll ever ramp up to enough minutes to really impact the Clips' championship chances, but it seems possible still that they are being very, very conservative in how they ease him into this season. If he's still playing this few minutes in a few months, though, yikes.
   187. asinwreck Posted: October 28, 2022 at 07:37 PM (#6103001)
Oh, this can't be good.
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
The Spurs have waived guard Josh Primo.
   188. tshipman Posted: October 28, 2022 at 08:09 PM (#6103003)
has to be something off the court?
   189. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 28, 2022 at 08:30 PM (#6103005)
has to be something off the court?
it doesn't have to be, but it's hard to think of what else it could be.

there's a wide range of off the court infractions, though, so hopefully he's closer to ryan lochte than ray carruth.
   190. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 29, 2022 at 12:19 AM (#6103044)
this is normal:
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Nets condemn Kyrie Irving's promotion of antisemitic film - via @ESPN App espn.com/nba/story/_/id…


I'm disappointed that Kyrie appears to support a film based on a book full of anti-semitic disinformation. I want to sit down and make sure he understands this is hurtful to all of us, and as a man of faith, it is wrong to promote hate based on race, ethnicity or religion.

— Joe Tsai (@joetsai1999) October 29, 2022
   191. Moeball Posted: October 29, 2022 at 01:06 PM (#6103114)
Kawhi's career reminds me a bit of Bill Walton. Players who, when healthy, can totally control a game on both ends of the floor and are clearly capable of leading a team to the title, but are injured so much of the time that their whole career is just a big "what if?". Like the potential never got fully realized.
   192. spivey Posted: October 29, 2022 at 05:05 PM (#6103174)
I agree with 191. I was thinking about Walton too when thinking of Kawhi's legacy, though to be fair to Kawhi he still has some years to change the narrative.

I think people overrate early Kawhi, because late Kawhi became so good. Don't get me wrong, he was really good. But he was a really good role player. That Finals MVP I think was whatever. I heard Simmons say on Lowe's pod that he "shut down LeBron". Go look at the stats of that series. Actually you don't need to, because I'll post his stats here: 28/8/4 on 57/52/79 % shooting.

Finally, it saddens me that Manu never got a Finals MVP.

If you look at Kawhi's career, I'd argue he never got to an all-NBA level until 15-16. Since then, he's played 326 games. So about 4.5 seasons of all-NBA play. That's really not a whole hell of a lot for someone who is considered one of the best players of this generation.
   193. asinwreck Posted: October 29, 2022 at 06:51 PM (#6103199)
Ramona Shelburne @ramonashelburne Reporting with ⁦@wojespn
⁩The San Antonio Spurs’ release of guard Josh Primo – the No. 12 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft --- stemmed from multiple alleged instances of Primo exposing himself to women.
   194. tshipman Posted: October 29, 2022 at 06:59 PM (#6103200)
I did not have serial flasher on the bingo card. Good on the Spurs for taking action.

***

I think comparing Kawhi to Bill Walton is unfair ... To Bill Walton!!

Memes aside, I think Walton is a good analogy, but maybe more extreme. Walton hit a higher peak than Kawhi, but for even fewer games. Kawhi was slightly less dominant, and slightly more durable.
   195. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 29, 2022 at 08:25 PM (#6103210)
I thought it would either be domestic violence or sexual assault. This is the latter and good on San Antonio, but frankly I'm a little relieved it wasn't worse.
   196. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 29, 2022 at 09:03 PM (#6103215)
I did not have serial flasher on the bingo card. Good on the Spurs for taking action.
yup. it's easy to imagine something like that getting swept under the rug, or being punished with something more like a slap on the wrist.

Ramona Shelburne @ramonashelburne Reporting with ⁦@wojespn
⁩The San Antonio Spurs’ release of guard Josh Primo – the No. 12 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft --- stemmed from multiple alleged instances of Primo exposing himself to women.
btw: i find that byline interesting.

i wonder if primo's agent tried to leak something to woj as a way to take the sting out of the initial reporting, and if woj then brought in shelburne as a "sensitivity reader" to make sure he wasn't ####### the story up (a la adam schefter's reporting on the dozens of sexual assault allegations made against deshaun watson).
   197. Dolf Lucky Posted: October 29, 2022 at 09:51 PM (#6103223)
Exposure is one of those acts that I just can’t even imagine. Like, what’s the appeal?
   198. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 29, 2022 at 10:02 PM (#6103227)
Exposure is one of those acts that I just can’t even imagine. Like, what’s the appeal?
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take?
   199. Dolf Lucky Posted: October 29, 2022 at 10:12 PM (#6103231)
Maybe that’s my problem. Lack of overconfidence.
   200. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 29, 2022 at 10:34 PM (#6103236)
Maybe that’s my problem. Lack of overconfidence.
tell me you're canadian without telling me you're canadian.
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