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Friday, April 15, 2022

2022 NBA Playoffs thread

I estimate the NBA thread only had 10-12 years of content so we’re in reruns already.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 15, 2022 at 11:59 AM | 1518 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: narratives, nba, off-topic, playoffs

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   1401. nick swisher hygiene Posted: May 14, 2022 at 09:53 PM (#6076745)
If we get a Heat-Bucks matchup we could see 80s levels of 3pt shooting….
   1402. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: May 15, 2022 at 12:24 AM (#6076777)
Miami actually was #1 in the NBA in 3P% during the season--.379. They allowed .339, the second-lowest in the league. Obviously this is one reason that they had such a good year.
   1403. Cagerfan Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:05 AM (#6076786)
CAMDEN, N.J. -- The Philadelphia 76ers announced that forward Danny Green tore the anterior cruciate ligament and lateral cruciate ligament in his left knee in Philadelphia's season-ending loss in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference semifinals to the Miami Heat on Thursday night.

Green was injured when 76ers superstar Joel Embiid crashed into him in the first quarter of Game 6, falling into Green's left leg after a shot attempt and sending the 13-year forward to the ground in a heap. Green initially said he wasn't aware of just how serious the injury was until he attempted to walk off the court after spending time on the court in pain and his knee buckled when he stood up.
   1404. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:19 AM (#6076790)
Ugh. That’s probably it for Green which is a damn shame. Still, a great career, over all.
   1405. asinwreck Posted: May 15, 2022 at 03:03 PM (#6076810)
Steve Kerr was cleared to rejoin the Warriors.
   1406. SteveF Posted: May 15, 2022 at 04:25 PM (#6076820)
Good news. I wouldn't imagine Kerr is at any major risk, but glad to hear he's OK.
   1407. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: May 15, 2022 at 04:28 PM (#6076821)
For me, this game is a bunch of neutral to unlikable players, against a bunch of very likable players and Grayson Allen.

I'm not sure who I'm rooting for.
   1408. Cagerfan Posted: May 15, 2022 at 04:51 PM (#6076829)
Portis is likeable?
   1409. SteveF Posted: May 15, 2022 at 04:54 PM (#6076830)
I don't know any of these dudes. I have no idea whether any of them are likeable or not.
   1410. SteveF Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:16 PM (#6076835)
Brutal call.
   1411. SteveF Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:17 PM (#6076836)
3 point play and the 4th on Tatum. Just a brutal call.
   1412. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:24 PM (#6076839)
This game and really this series is just role players making threes.
   1413. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:27 PM (#6076840)
Role players making threes and what constitutes an offensive foul feel like the two pivotal pieces. (I'm not being flippant and think it has overall been pretty well refereed and is a tough matchup for the zebras. But Giannis creates a ton of contact with his shoulders and elbows and so how it's called matters a ton for the Bucks. Hah and they overturn that call as I'm typing this.)
   1414. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:27 PM (#6076841)
How is it possible that NBA coaches use challenges consistently on the dumbest possible #### to challenge?
   1415. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:29 PM (#6076842)
I imagine because they're emotionally tied up in proceedings, but yeah, they're pretty much all bad at it.
   1416. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:37 PM (#6076844)
Bucks really didn't capitalize on Tatum having to sit out so much of the third quarter.
   1417. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:40 PM (#6076845)


3 point play and the 4th on Tatum. Just a brutal call.


For his 4th...but they called an offensive foul on the other end to even it out (even though it cost the C's a basket and was Tatum's 4th).
   1418. SteveF Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:48 PM (#6076848)
This game is going to set a record for offensive fouls.
   1419. asinwreck Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:52 PM (#6076850)
No back-to-back championship this year.
   1420. SteveF Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:56 PM (#6076853)
That crash of the offensive board from the corner really IS open all the damn time.
   1421. Hombre Brotani Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:57 PM (#6076854)
As it turns out, when you replace Middleton with Wes Matthews, your team suffers.
   1422. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 15, 2022 at 05:58 PM (#6076855)
This game and really this series is just role players making threes.

Holiday, Connaughton, Matthews, and Allen have combined to go 0-15 from three.
   1423. Cagerfan Posted: May 15, 2022 at 06:25 PM (#6076863)
The C’s perimeter defense was superb though. The Bucks were completely out of gas in the second half.
   1424. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 15, 2022 at 06:26 PM (#6076864)
Even aside from Grant Williams' 27 points today (five years to the day after the Kelly Olynyk game), what a pair of series he's had on defense, more than meeting the challenge of defending KD and then Giannis one-on-one for significant minutes.
   1425. PJ Martinez Posted: May 15, 2022 at 06:51 PM (#6076870)
At the beginning of the game, when Williams missed a couple and then passed up on a couple of wide-open opportunities, it looked like Milwaukee's strategy of just giving those shots to him and hoping he gets psyched out might work. But Williams shot 41% from three this season and close to 47% from the corners. Udoka apparently told him during an early timeout that Milwaukee was disrespecting him and he should let it fly. Maybe the Bucks didn't have a better option, but just giving him all the space and time in the world out there was risky. He went 7-18, which is actually below his average for the season, but more than the Bucks could bear.
   1426. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2022 at 08:01 PM (#6076875)
As it turns out, when you replace Middleton with Wes Matthews, your team suffers.


Wes was actually fine/good. The real issue was giving 25 minutes per game to Grayson Allen because you desperately need offense and him going 5 for 29 from 3.
   1427. PJ Martinez Posted: May 15, 2022 at 08:10 PM (#6076876)
This will be the fifth straight season that there is a different NBA champion, the first time there has been a streak this long since 1975-1979.
   1428. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: May 15, 2022 at 08:12 PM (#6076877)
Wes was actually fine/good. The real issue was giving 25 minutes per game to Grayson Allen because you desperately need offense and him going 5 for 29 from 3.

What do you expect against Brad Stevens' vaunted three-point defense?
   1429. asinwreck Posted: May 15, 2022 at 08:57 PM (#6076884)
How far can Luka take this team? And what will his first-ever taste of postseason success mean to his development?
   1430. MHS Posted: May 15, 2022 at 08:59 PM (#6076885)
What a thrashing. The suns should be embarrassed.

Great win the Celtics.
   1431. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:07 PM (#6076886)
At the half, the Suns leading scorers are Jae Crowder and Cam Johnson, with 5 each. I bet you would have gotten great odds for that...

Barkley did the prediction contest bit, where the question was "who is going to score more points than Luka." So far, if you had picked all of the Suns combined, you would have still been wrong. Luka's 27 equalling the entire Suns team.
   1432. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:07 PM (#6076887)
I guess I’m rooting for the Warriors at this point.
   1433. Cagerfan Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:11 PM (#6076888)
Jesus. I missed the first half and I check the boxscore: Paul-1 point, Booker- 2 points, Ayton-3 points… WTF?
   1434. SteveF Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:13 PM (#6076889)
It's like the universe was saving a year's worth of shooting regression for Phoenix for this one game.
   1435. Mike A Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:15 PM (#6076890)
For the life of me, I cannot figure out what happened to the Suns. Curious to see if they decide to pay Ayton the big bucks.
   1436. asinwreck Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:18 PM (#6076891)
*Simpsons Stop He's Already Dead gif*
   1437. Mike A Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:24 PM (#6076893)
Quotes that aged badly for $400, Alex:

"...your season is at stake. So that adds a good pressure to it, an exciting pressure and I think we have the guys in this gym that embrace that. Embrace it, take it in and are ready to perform up to it." -Devin Booker, before game 7
   1438. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:25 PM (#6076894)
holy ####, how is this the score of a basketball game?
   1439. asinwreck Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:25 PM (#6076895)
They scored ten points in the second quarter. Of an elimination game. At home.

And now they are losing by 41.
   1440. Cagerfan Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:27 PM (#6076897)
Waiting for a Tshipman 3 point variance comment.
   1441. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:31 PM (#6076899)
Has anyone ever been doubled up in a game seven before!?
   1442. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:32 PM (#6076900)
What's the record for the worst game 7 loss?
   1443. Hombre Brotani Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:32 PM (#6076901)
I love how the Mavs aren’t slowing down. Leave nothing standing.
   1444. PJ Martinez Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:32 PM (#6076902)
As I understand it, no team has ever been doubled up over a full game.

When does Kidd pull his starters? End of the third, I guess?
   1445. Cagerfan Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:33 PM (#6076903)
I’m not sure any team has been doubled up period.
   1446. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:34 PM (#6076904)
Did Chris Paul start eating meat again at his 37th birthday party?

Weirdly, I think the Suns were going to beat the Warriors, but the Mavericks are not there yet. Luka is the baddest man in the NBA now.
   1447. MHS Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:36 PM (#6076905)
The fallout of this suns loss will be fascinating.
   1448. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:38 PM (#6076906)
The fallout of this suns loss will be fascinating.


I mean, it's just one game, but on the other hand ... Ayton didn't deserve the max anyways, CP3 has had 4 awful games in a row. What do you do?
   1449. asinwreck Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:39 PM (#6076907)
Did the Sarver investigation leak in the Phoenix locker room before tipoff? What happened?
   1450. Cagerfan Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:42 PM (#6076908)
The WC finals will be the Battle of the Guard-Oriented Offenses.
   1451. SteveF Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:44 PM (#6076909)
Phoenix was never as good as their record. Shooting regression. Chris Paul is old. Luka Doncic is really good.
   1452. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:46 PM (#6076910)
This goes way past regression ... this has to be one of their worst shooting games ever.

Like obviously the Mavs are a bit hot and the Suns are a lot cold, but #######.
   1453. asinwreck Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:48 PM (#6076911)
As the fourth quarter begins, the Phoenix PA announcer yells "get on your feet and make some noise!" as the fans head to the exits.
   1454. Adam M Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:49 PM (#6076912)
That was the dullest pair of Game 7s I've ever seen. What a disappointing day of basketball.
   1455. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:49 PM (#6076913)
But Phoenix being overrated because of regular season record, and the Mavs hitting everything is, well, sure, but that was 27 points at halftime. That's epic!
   1456. Mike A Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:55 PM (#6076915)
I’m not sure any team has been doubled up period.
Don't believe so. There have been some close calls - in the 2009 playoffs, Denver had New Orleans (at home!) doubled with 3 minutes left but 'only' won 121-63. The guy playing point guard for New Orleans in that game was...you guessed it: Chris Paul.
   1457. MHS Posted: May 15, 2022 at 09:55 PM (#6076916)


I mean, it's just one game, but on the other hand ... Ayton didn't deserve the max anyways, CP3 has had 4 awful games in a row. What do you do?



Logically, sure - just one game. Sort of. The expectations were pretty high after 65 wins and a finals trip.

They are playing a team which the public had pretty low expectations for, and was up 3-2… not only could they not put them away but no showed at home in game 7. Didn’t just lose but no showed… and in a historic way.

Normally, you’d fire your coach - but that ain’t happening. So changes will have to happen on the roster… but nothing is obvious besides maybe letting your overrated but still good center go, with no real replacement. Just fascinating - are you going to run if back in the biggest collapse since the 04 Yankee’s?

Luka is great, but he had like zero to do with this win. You could replace him with Abdul Nadar and the Mav’s are still up 20..





   1458. Cagerfan Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:09 PM (#6076917)
Boban!
   1459. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:16 PM (#6076918)
What do you do?


Seems obvious to me: trade Paul for Russell Westbrook.

One sidelight to this is Kidd and Williams and narratives thereof. Williams's coaching record was not very good until this Phoenix team that is an analytics fave due to how they play, how they are constructed and the metrics, and Williams has gotten a lot of credit. Kidd ofc has been seen by many as being sort of in a group with Mark Jackson but with worse off-court baggage. I remember a lot of Lakers fans being pissed off when Kidd got a job as an assistant with the 2020 team. I said at the time that there seems to be a pretty big delta between how a lot of people inside and outside the game see Kidd.
   1460. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:18 PM (#6076920)
Luka is great, but he had like zero to do with this win. You could replace him with Abdul Nadar and the Mav’s are still up 20..


I mean, the line "Everyone acts tough when they're up" is pretty amazing given how things turned out.
   1461. Mike A Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:20 PM (#6076921)
After a bit more research, the double has happened. In 1998, the Pacers beat the Trail Blazers 124-59. That was the first time it had happened in NBA history, I don't think it's happened since.
   1462. nick swisher hygiene Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:22 PM (#6076922)
So, if Devin Booker is your best player, are you a title contender?
   1463. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:25 PM (#6076923)
I will admit, I am right at the head of the line of the I Hate Jason Kidd's Wife-Beating Ass crew, but he clearly has learned a lot since Milwaukee.
   1464. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:28 PM (#6076924)
One sidelight to this is Kidd and Williams and narratives thereof. Williams's coaching record was not very good until this Phoenix team that is an analytics fave due to how they play, how they are constructed and the metrics, and Williams has gotten a lot of credit. Kidd ofc has been seen by many as being sort of in a group with Mark Jackson but with worse off-court baggage. I remember a lot of Lakers fans being pissed off when Kidd got a job as an assistant with the 2020 team. I said at the time that there seems to be a pretty big delta between how a lot of people inside and outside the game see Kidd.


I have been slightly mystified by the excellent press that Monty Williams gets.
   1465. asinwreck Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:28 PM (#6076925)
Spencer Dinwiddie has gone further into the postseason this year than Durant, Irving, or Harden. What odds could I have gotten on that bet after he signed with Washington?
   1466. PJ Martinez Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:30 PM (#6076927)
From my quick research through the years on @bball_ref, this seems to be the first ever set of NBA conference finals that doesn’t feature at least 1 of the top-4 finishers in the MVP voting


Edit: also none of the surviving teams won more than 53 games in the regular season (or fewer than 51).
   1467. Cagerfan Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:51 PM (#6076929)
I was going to make a comment about Dinwiddie being mysteriously traded from the Nets after they appeared to play better with him at the point than they did with Kyrie.
   1468. Moeball Posted: May 15, 2022 at 10:59 PM (#6076930)
#1462 this makes me think of something. This may have been asked previously and, if so, please forgive me. But your question about Booker sounds like a basketball version of the Keltner Test? Has anyone here ever come up with such a thing for NBA players? What would be the appropriate basketball equivalent name?
   1469. nick swisher hygiene Posted: May 15, 2022 at 11:28 PM (#6076931)
Moe, I hadn't thought of the Keltner Test in a while.

it seems to me that the synergistic nature of basketball as a game, and the contract/cap structure of NBA basketball as a league, makes looking for equivalency here a fool's errand.

I would also say that this thread is more than a decade old, and AFAICR discussions of historical greatness here have been almost completely without reference to the Hall of Fame, which is not really something that most basketball fans care all that much about....
   1470. they sit at the same 57i66135 and eat sometimes Posted: May 15, 2022 at 11:59 PM (#6076934)
I have been slightly mystified by the excellent press that Monty Williams gets.
how the hell else do you explain the suns being anything more than mediocre?


paul is old and injury prone.
booker is an unrepentant gunner.
ayton is overrated.
bridges barely touches the ball on offense.
the rotation is full of random journeymen like torrey craig, javale mcgee, cameron payne, jae crowder, landry shamet, bismack biyombo, and that list could still go on...



maybe their success is not specifically due to monty williams, but he sure as hell didn't #### it up, and that's more than you could say about a lot of other "good" coaches who walk into similar situations.
   1471. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: May 16, 2022 at 12:00 AM (#6076935)
Keltner Test?


Interesting thought. I was skeptical about Boston and Phoenix; Boston so far is making that look dead wrong--Phoenix, ofc, the opposite.

In any case, I tend to look at postseason both in historical terms and in terms of what is going on at the moment, and as I have said, the majority of the time, the league champion has a guy who is seen as a Top-5 player and in many cases, has the guy who is seen as the best in the league at the time. Hence my skepticism about Phoenix and Boston.

Looking at the league just since 2011, James has won four times with three different franchises. Curry has won three times and had Durant with him twice. Leonard and Antetokounmpo each have won once. The 2011 Mavs and the 2014 Spurs were the outliers; if you go on the metrics, Nowitzki was about the 10th-best player in the league in 2011. PJ's 1466 speaks to this in terms of right now.

So, this year, is, I think an anomaly in some ways, both in terms of parity at the top of the league and who is coming out on top. Doncic, who was 4th in VORP and 7th in PER, is probably the best player left, although you could also argue for Tatum or even Curry in a short series. Butler was 11th in PER FWIW. Philadelphia, with Embiid and Harden, fit the traditional model best on paper, and Morey was no doubt aware of this when he made the trade. For many reasons, it didn't happen for them.

As we have discussed, teams that win it without a Keltner Test guy (was he considered to be the best player in the league or one of the very best is the NBA Keltner question) tend to be awesome defensive teams with very good players who blend at the top and no big weak spots: 1970 and 1973 Knicks, 1989-90 and 2004 Pistons, 2014 Spurs. (Some people put the 2008 Celtics in this group but Garnett was still probably a Top 5 guy in 2008 IMO although Boston did lose a lot of playoff games before winning it).

This year, Golden State and Boston were 1-2 in DRTG as per Bask Ref. Miami was 5th and Dallas was 6th. Phoenix was 3rd and fit this second model perfectly on paper, although no one cares about that right now.

   1472. Thok Posted: May 16, 2022 at 12:18 AM (#6076938)
A general rule of thumb is that a Hall of Famer is roughly capable of being at least the best player on an NBA finalist, or the second best player on an NBA champion (and possibly the third best player on an NBA dynasty, but that's a more unclear).
   1473. tshipman Posted: May 16, 2022 at 01:06 AM (#6076939)
how the hell else do you explain the suns being anything more than mediocre?


paul is old and injury prone.
booker is an unrepentant gunner.
ayton is overrated.
bridges barely touches the ball on offense.
the rotation is full of random journeymen like torrey craig, javale mcgee, cameron payne, jae crowder, landry shamet, bismack biyombo, and that list could still go on...


To me, the Suns are a system team, and can only really run the system. That has value! Utah is another system team. Back in the day, the Spurs were a system team and won championships. For me, to be coach of the year, you have to be more than just a system. The Suns tried to adapt to the Mavs, and they just couldn't do it.
   1474. spivey Posted: May 16, 2022 at 01:08 AM (#6076940)
Lots of not great quotes coming out about Ayton. And CP3 fell apart the last 5 games. I don’t know who the brilliant coach on Kidd’s staff is, but their ability to dominate teams in the math game this playoffs has been immense.

Bucks, it’s a bummer but writing was on the wall without Middleton. Don’t really trust their front office much though. Allen deal was weird and they need to do better with the MLE and the FRP. Need more athleticism on the wing. Like I guess everyone.
   1475. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: May 16, 2022 at 01:23 AM (#6076941)
Not sure if is this a real Stephen A quote, but it should be:

DBG
@DBGyt_
·
4h
"I don't give a damn about this kid from Europe, if you're the Phoenix suns you HAVE to take Deandre Ayton"

- Stephen A. Smith (2018)
   1476. Cagerfan Posted: May 16, 2022 at 03:48 AM (#6076946)
That sounds like him. He isn’t a particularly good analyst or talent evaluator. OTOH, Doncic was picked 3rd but traded back for the #5 player and another 1st rounder that turned into Cam Reddish. I wonder if Atl would like a do-over on that.
   1477. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: May 16, 2022 at 05:34 AM (#6076947)
Who says no?
Trade Machine
   1478. PJ Martinez Posted: May 16, 2022 at 10:20 AM (#6076963)
Fair.
   1479. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: May 16, 2022 at 10:26 AM (#6076965)
This game and really this series is just role players making threes.

Yep:
Kirk Goldsberry @kirkgoldsberry ·2h
The Celtics made 53 more 3s than the Bucks in their 7-game series.

That's by far the biggest differential in made 3s in any series in NBA history.


Pritchard made as many 3's yesterday as the Bucks. The Bucks got almost nothing out of any of their role players all series. It was Giannis, with moments of Jrue, then nothing (well, Portis and Lopez both had their moments).

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what happened to the Suns.

CP3 legally died on his 37th birthday.

Luka is the baddest man in the NBA now.

He's the best player left, and I guess he's more than capable of winning a series on his own. I wouldn't expect the Mavs to beat the W's, but the W's are far from invincible and I think the Mavs kinda match up with them about as good as you can.

I have never, ever changed my opinion on a coach faster than I have with Kidd this season.

The guy playing point guard for New Orleans in that game was...you guessed it: Chris Paul.

This was either the 5th or 6th time a CP3 team has blown a 2-0 series lead.

To me, the Suns are a system team, and can only really run the system. That has value! Utah is another system team. Back in the day, the Spurs were a system team and won championships. For me, to be coach of the year, you have to be more than just a system. The Suns tried to adapt to the Mavs, and they just couldn't do it.

Like I'm not really arguing with you here, but the system is the coach's, right? So that's why Monty gets credit.
   1480. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: May 16, 2022 at 10:31 AM (#6076966)
Wes was actually fine/good.

This one gets it own post, because I couldn't disagree more. I mean, Allen was awful too, but just because there are zero expectations doesn't mean he was ok. He was absolutely torched over and over and his only defense is falling down, which just kept endangering everyone else on the court.
   1481. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: May 16, 2022 at 10:32 AM (#6076967)
We could be looking at a small-ball war between the Mavs and Warriors. Draymond is coming off a six-game series in which he totalled 31 FGA, 36 assists, and 24 turnovers.
   1482. sardonic Posted: May 16, 2022 at 10:35 AM (#6076968)
I'll admit that I mostly don't know too much about the Mavs, so more than anything I'm curious to see the series and how it plays out. On the surface, I like Dallas as a matchup for the Ws a lot more than Phoenix. I don't know tons about the Mavs, but it's hard to see Luka, Dinwiddie and Brunson holding up on defense. I mean I guess DFS and Bullock are probably pretty good to solid, but can Luka/Brunson/DFS/Bullock/??? slow down Steph/Poole/Klay/Wiggins/Draymond? That said, I know the Mavs had a strong defensive rating overall this season so curious how they got there.

On offense, Dallas doesn't have the size to punish the Ws in the same way an Ayton, JJJ or Joker could. I expect the Warriors to put Wiggins and maybe even Kuminga on Luka, count on Draymond to play free safety on the back line and and then just dare the other Mavs to beat them. I think Steph can compete with Brunson, Klay can compete with Bullock.

One thing I did see is that the Mavs are one of the slowest paced teams left in the playoffs while the Ws are one of the faster. I think the pace will be one thing to watch. I can see a lot of 125-118 type shootouts where the winning team just slowed the other team enough or one team was slightly colder from 3.
   1483. sardonic Posted: May 16, 2022 at 10:38 AM (#6076969)
For sure, Ws need Draymond to push the pace while remaining under control. I do think that the Memphis D (esp without Ja) contributed a lot to the TOs and the aggressive hunting of home run passes though. Can the Mavs put the same defensive pressure on Golden State? I honestly don't know.
   1484. sardonic Posted: May 16, 2022 at 10:40 AM (#6076970)
To me, the Suns are a system team, and can only really run the system. That has value! Utah is another system team. Back in the day, the Spurs were a system team and won championships. For me, to be coach of the year, you have to be more than just a system. The Suns tried to adapt to the Mavs, and they just couldn't do it.


You could argue that the Ws are a system team. Every year Kerr forces the team to move the ball and cut instead of just spamming PnRs, and I definitely think it limits the Ws regular season success, but I think the Ws ability to play two styles on offense helps in the playoffs. Maybe without the system they'd be the Harden Rockets or the Jackson Warriors.
   1485. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: May 16, 2022 at 10:44 AM (#6076971)
I was pulling for Milwaukee because Giannis, but Boston thoroughly outplayed them. Milwaukee was fortunate to win Game 5, and their losses were by 23, 8, 13, and 28 points.
   1486. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: May 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM (#6076974)
today's probably not the day to figure out how good the suns or monty or booker are. what a bloodbath.

when we look at what happened with milwaukee against boston, i think it's easy to underplay what lopez did. he made the milwaukee defense work respectably in a scheme that saved more of giannis' energy for o - which they desperately needed. what awful wing play milwaukee got.

i also like dallas as a matchup more for the w's than i would phoenix. doncic, though, oh my goodness.
(some analysis there, i know)
   1487. tshipman Posted: May 16, 2022 at 11:22 AM (#6076976)
i also like dallas as a matchup more for the w's than i would phoenix. doncic, though, oh my goodness.


yeah, I think maybe Poole is not very playable against Luka.

Like I'm not really arguing with you here, but the system is the coach's, right? So that's why Monty gets credit.


Yeah, but while a system delivers results in the regular season, it limits a team in the playoffs.
   1488. PJ Martinez Posted: May 16, 2022 at 11:38 AM (#6076978)
i think it's easy to underplay what lopez did
Lopez was great, defensively — I did not realize before how good a rim protector he is.
   1489. Mike A Posted: May 16, 2022 at 11:46 AM (#6076981)
Stephen A Smith didn't quite say that...basically he was making the argument (strongly, as he always does) that Ayton made the most sense in Phoenix because of the fit and the fact he's an Arizona kid. Any other team then you would consider other players. So the words have been twisted a little:

"I don’t give a damn about how this kid in Europe looks, I understand he’s a 6’8 point guard, he’s surreal, he’ll probably be the number two overall pick...(but) You have to take Deandre Ayton with the number one overall pick because you are the Phoenix Suns."

That was from a 2018 pre-draft show. A bad take, but not crazy or anything. As a side, I did see that ESPN ranked Mo Bamba and Marvin Bagley ahead of Trae on that show.

Speaking of, the Luka/Trae thing been done to death. I am happy to see whenever anyone mentions that the Hawks actually got a lottery pick in the deal, seems 95% of the internet thinks Luka was traded for Trae straight up. Unfortunately, Reddish was a bust. Heck, the whole 2019 draft was kind of a bust outside of Ja and maybe Zion.
   1490. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: May 16, 2022 at 12:27 PM (#6076984)
At least Trae is a very good, All Star level player. It's not like the Hawks traded back in order to take Dennis Smith, Jr. (I also think it's too early to call Reddish a bust, but he's not going to give the Hawks any value, now that he's in NY).
   1491. Cagerfan Posted: May 16, 2022 at 12:31 PM (#6076986)
   1492. tshipman Posted: May 16, 2022 at 12:52 PM (#6076991)
At least Trae is a very good, All Star level player. It's not like the Hawks traded back in order to take Dennis Smith, Jr. (I also think it's too early to call Reddish a bust, but he's not going to give the Hawks any value, now that he's in NY).


Trae for Luka, even straight up, is basically fine. They're both great players, you got an extra piece, the extra piece didn't work out, oh well that's life.

Marvin Bagley over Luka? Now that's a franchise killer.
   1493. PJ Martinez Posted: May 16, 2022 at 12:53 PM (#6076993)
Among the conference finalists, Maxi Kleber is the only player listed at or taller than 6-foot-10 who has averaged over 25 minutes per game in the playoffs.


TIL that Al Horford is listed at 6'9". Adebayo, too.
   1494. tshipman Posted: May 16, 2022 at 02:23 PM (#6077001)
Pat Bev is the headliner at the Player Hater's Ball.
   1495. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 16, 2022 at 03:27 PM (#6077012)
Beverly is currently acing his interview to hop onto the Kendrick Perkins career track when he's done playing.
   1496. Cagerfan Posted: May 16, 2022 at 03:30 PM (#6077013)
LOL. The egotism is amusing. He said this morning he’s the best defender in the NBA.
   1497. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: May 16, 2022 at 03:41 PM (#6077015)
The postseason will continue to be very interesting (which was basically guaranteed to be true before this round).

ECF and WCF look like very different series. Going to be interesting adjustments for whichever teams make the Finals. On paper, Dallas is surely the weakest team remaining so advantage W's, but after what we all just watched Doncic continue to do... still feels like an early career Jordan (or James!) where he just doesn't have enough help yet, but you never know.

Who is the worst second best player on a champion? Like, whoever the Mavs' #2 is is way, way worse than that, right? (At least in recent memory.)
   1498. tshipman Posted: May 16, 2022 at 03:59 PM (#6077017)
Who is the worst second best player on a champion? Like, whoever the Mavs' #2 is is way, way worse than that, right? (At least in recent memory.)


Probably the 2011 Mavs, whose second best player was either Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd or Jason Terry.

Edit: I should add that I think the 2022 Mavs' second best player is probably roughly equivalent to the 2011 Mavs.
   1499. sardonic Posted: May 16, 2022 at 04:05 PM (#6077019)
still feels like an early career Jordan (or James!) where he just doesn't have enough help yet, but you never know.

Who is the worst second best player on a champion? Like, whoever the Mavs' #2 is is way, way worse than that, right? (At least in recent memory.)



Probably a 37-year-old Jason Kidd or Jason Terry on the 2011 Mavs. More recently, Kyle Lowry or Pascal Siakim on the 2019 Raptors. At least one of those two is clearly better than Brunson (Siakim was a clear max player/borderline All NBA). Brunson's probably better than old man Kidd and Jet though.

If Dallas pulls this off then Doncic has got to be best player in the game -- this Warriors core has only lost to Lebron while fully healthy since Kerr showed up, and even Lebron only went 1 for 2 with Kyrie and Love as sidekicks along with the Bill Belicheck of the NBA as coach. Granted the Ws are older, but they probably have a good a supporting cast since they lost all their depth to fit in KD, assuming OPJ is healthy.

I think it's a testament to how impressive Luka is that despite all that I'm still nervous going into the series. I wouldn't put anything past Doncic.
   1500. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: May 16, 2022 at 04:27 PM (#6077024)
I would take prime Chandler for sure over any current Mav (though there's probably some uncertainty given the game's evolution in the intervening decade). This is not very close for me? Maybe I'm crazy. But picturing Luka with prime Chandler, my god.
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