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Friday, April 15, 2022

2022 NBA Playoffs thread

I estimate the NBA thread only had 10-12 years of content so we’re in reruns already.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 15, 2022 at 11:59 AM | 4163 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: narratives, nba, off-topic, playoffs

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   2901. DCA Posted: June 19, 2022 at 12:07 PM (#6082797)
Miami/aberg is on the clock. We still need someone to pick for LAC.

1. Oklahoma City (Harlond) (trade) -- Jabari Smith Jr
2. Portland (mike f) (trade) -- Paolo Banchero
3. San Antonio (GregF)(trade) -- Chet Holmgren
4. Sacramento (Votto) -- Benedict Mathurin
5. Detroit (Cross-Eyed) -- Shaedon Sharpe
6. Indiana (Mellow Mouse) -- Jaden Ivey
7. Orlando (Athletic Supporter) (trade) -- Dyson Daniels
8. Indiana (Mellow Mouse) (trade) -- Keegan Murray
9. Houston (Oriole Tragic)(trade) -- Jeremy Sochan
10. Washington (HW American) -- Tyrone 'TyTy' Washington, Jr.
11. New York (. . . . . .) -- Jalen Duren (then traded to San Antonio)
12. Chicago (Dandy)(trade) -- Tari Eason
13. Charlotte (JJ1986) -- AJ Griffin
14. Indiana (Mellow Mouse) (trade) -- Nikola Jovic
15. Houston (Oriole Tragic) (trade) -- Malaki Branham
16. Atlanta (Der-K) -- Ousmane Dieng
17. Houston (Oriole Tragic) -- EJ Liddell
18. Oklahoma City (Harlond)(trade) -- Jalen Williams
19. Minnesota (TFTIO) -- Josh Minott
20. Houston (Oriole Tragic) (trade) -- Dalen Terry
21. Denver (asinwreck) -- Jake LaRavia
22. Memphis (tshipman) -- Blake Wesley
23. Philadelphia (57i66135.) -- Caleb Houstan
24. Milwaukee (Ken Griffey) -- Johnny Davis
25. New York (. . . . .) (trade) -- Mark Williams
26. Charlotte (JJ1986) (trade) -- Justin Lewis
27. Miami (aberg) --
28. New Orleans (tshipman) (trade) --
29. Memphis (tshipman) --
30. Denver (asinwreck) --

31. Indiana (Mellow Mouse)
32. Orlando (Athletic Supporter)
33. Toronto (Baseball Obscura)
34. Oklahoma City (Harlond)
35. Orlando (Athletic Supporter)
36. Portland (mike f)
37. Sacramento (Votto)
38. Houston (Oriole Tragic) (trade)
39. Golden State (DCA) (trade)
40. Minnesota (TFTIO)
41. Golden State (DCA)(trade)
42. San Antonio (GregF)
43. LA Clippers
44. Atlanta (Der-K)
45. Charlotte (JJ1986)
46. Detroit (Cross-Eyed)
47. Memphis (tshipman)
48. Minnesota (TFTIO)
49. Sacramento (Votto)
50. Minnesota (TFTIO)
51. Golden State (DCA)
52. Golden State (DCA)
53. Boston (winter's night)
54. Milwaukee (forfeited over Bogdan Bogdanovich)
55. Miami (forfeited over Kyle Lowry)
56. Washington (HW American)
57. Golden State (DCA)
58. Cleveland (DCA)
59. Portland (mike f)
60. San Antonio (GregF) (trade)

TRADES
1. Hawks/Der-K trade Jalen Johnson & Skylar Mays to the Thunder/harlond for Muscala, Williams, the Hornets' 2024 2nd round pick, and the Hawks' 2025 2nd round pick.
2. Pacers/Mellow Mouse trade Myles Turner to Pelicans/tshipman for 2022 #8, Jaxson Hayes, and Jonas Valancuinas.
3. Magic/Athletic Supporter trade the 2022 #1 pick to Thunder/harlond for the 2022 #2 pick and the Wizards' 2023 1st round pick (various protections)
4. Magic/Athletic Supporter trade the 2022 #2 pick to Portland/mike f for the 2022 #7 pick, the Bucks' 2025 1st round pick (protected 1-4), and Nassir Little
5. HOU trades #3 to SA for #9, #20, #38
6. Hornets/JJ1986 trade PJ Washington to Bulls/Dandy for Blazers' 2023 1st round pick (lottery protected in 2023 & thereafter)
7. SA/GregF trades McDermott, Langford, #25 to NY/. . . . . for Randle, #11 (Duren), #42
8. Cleveland/DCA trades Sexton (sign and trade: 4/70+), #14, CLE's 2026 1st (has some protections) to Indiana/MM for Malcolm Brogdon.
9. HOU trades #26 and 2023 FRP (MIL) to CHA for #15.
10. Bulls/Dandy trade Coby White, #18, Marko Simonovic to Thunder/Harlond for #12, Sixers' 2025 1st round pick (lightly protected as per Horford trade), rights to Vasilije Micic
11. Bulls/Dandy trade Patrick Williams to Spurs/GregF for Jakob Poeltl, Bulls' 2025 1st round pick (protected/conditional from DeRozan S+T), Bulls' 2025 2nd round pick
12. NOP/tshipman trades Devonte' Graham to Cleveland/DCA for Cedi Osman, Dylan Windler, #39
13. SA/GregF trades Primo, Richardson, Collins to IND/Mellow Mouse for Hield, #60
14. New Orleans/tshipman trades #39, #41, #52 to Golden State/DCA for #28
   2902. DCA Posted: June 19, 2022 at 12:32 PM (#6082799)
GSW now have 5 picks in the second round, which is more than I can use. I would like to keep 39 and 41, but would like to offload at least two or maybe all three of the late picks (51, 52, 58).

I would trade any of these picks straight up for a future R2 pick (any year) or package all three of them for a future R1 (2024 preferred, but any year okay), if there's any team that wants more picks.
   2903. Harlond Posted: June 19, 2022 at 01:19 PM (#6082803)
I'll be done with the Thunder by then, so I'll pick for the Clippers.
   2904. Harlond Posted: June 19, 2022 at 01:26 PM (#6082804)
tshipman, sorry if I jumped the gun on the trade, but the lawyer in me concluded that a contract was formed when DCA accepted your offer without qualifications. That is the law, but real life is of course messier.
   2905. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2022 at 01:34 PM (#6082807)
tshipman, sorry if I jumped the gun on the trade, but the lawyer in me concluded that a contract was formed when DCA accepted your offer without qualifications. That is the law, but real life is of course messier.


Well, it's kind of the nature of message boards, since posts and people viewing the posts are asynchronous.

My intent was to offer to each of those teams in turn (CLT, then MIA then GSW), but obviously that takes too much time, and I didn't really spell it out explicitly.

Once I read it this morning, I could see how it was interpreted the way you did, of course.
   2906. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 19, 2022 at 01:34 PM (#6082808)
I like Murray too! (Though I don’t know about at 2 - but he’s part of why I like what Indy is doing here.)
He reminds me of Tobias Harris and it’s fair to hope that he can be a better defender?

Worries for me include: he’s old for his class and doesn’t have a track record of doing this stuff in the past; his path to being a star might mean playing some three and he might be too slow for that; he was really good offensively in the post - that doesn’t always translate well.

In general, though, he’s one of the only guys in the top half of the draft that I see as a possible “good deal” relative to your pick in an average draft. (Does that make sense?)

—-

2903/Harland - that’s better than me doing it; I didn’t like that I was picking right after them.
   2907. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2022 at 01:44 PM (#6082810)
I like Murray too! (Though I don’t know about at 2 - but he’s part of why I like what Indy is doing here.)
He reminds me of Tobias Harris and it’s fair to hope that he can be a better defender?

Worries for me include: he’s old for his class and doesn’t have a track record of doing this stuff in the past; his path to being a star might mean playing some three and he might be too slow for that; he was really good offensively in the post - that doesn’t always translate well.

In general, though, he’s one of the only guys in the top half of the draft that I see as a possible “good deal” relative to your pick in an average draft. (Does that make sense?)


I understand your last graph to mean that compared to an average draft's #4-8 overall (where he's likely to go), he represents better than average value. I agree with that. All the top 3 are worse than last year's draft no matter what order they go in. Shadeon Sharpe is a giant who the hell knows, and the only other guy I like in that range is Dyson Daniels who has huge question marks.
   2908. JJ1986 Posted: June 19, 2022 at 01:54 PM (#6082811)
I think I might have Tari Eason in my top 5, although I really only dug into this draft this week.
   2909. DCA Posted: June 19, 2022 at 02:24 PM (#6082813)
I thought Wiseman/Ball/Edwards was a weaker top 3 than this year and 2/3 of those have hit and the other 1/3 is more incomplete than bust. Would not surprise me if looking back in 2 years this group looks a lot better than it does today.
   2910. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 19, 2022 at 02:29 PM (#6082814)
Agree on Daniels too. Also really like Eason (as I’d said upthread); his worrisome flags (for me) include an inability or unwillingness to pass and lousy floor game in general + soooo why didn’t he start for LSU / he might turn into a good stats/not win guy.

I don’t know about ya’ll but I have minimal confidence in my ability to handicap a whole class. There are too many player types I struggle with plus I don’t watch nearly enough games. I do feel like I’ve done respectably in identifying a few people where I have strong opinions and being right on them more often than not. (Historically, at least. I’m not there yet with many dudes at all in this class.)
   2911. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 19, 2022 at 02:42 PM (#6082817)
2909/dca - oh, totally.
Part of it for me is that when I think about a top 2 or 3 pick, I think about there being a Zion on the board more than looking at some Anthony Bennetts. Not sure the term for that kind of bias?
   2912. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2022 at 02:43 PM (#6082818)
I don’t know about ya’ll but I have minimal confidence in my ability to handicap a whole class. There are too many player types I struggle with plus I don’t watch nearly enough games. I do feel like I’ve done respectably in identifying a few people where I have strong opinions and being right on them more often than not. (Historically, at least. I’m not there yet with many dudes at all in this class.)


For me at least, it's mostly about the top of the draft when it comes to a draft being "strong" or "weak." Are there multiple guys who could be top 2 on a championship team? When it comes to the entirety of a draft, I think it's almost always a who tf knows situation.
   2913. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 19, 2022 at 03:17 PM (#6082823)
Most of the time I’m not going to pick that high so my focus is elsewhere…
   2914. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 19, 2022 at 04:29 PM (#6082832)
The reason I wanted to trade down so much is that Daniels is the guy I really wanted out of this draft. Picking him at 1 seemed outrageous, so traded down from 1 to 7, picked up a couple future 1sts (with protection + provenance that makes them unspectacular, but actual conveyed firsts) and a high variance play in Little. I was a little worried someone might snipe Daniels ahead of 7 but he hasn't typically been going that high in mocks, and it worked out.
   2915. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 20, 2022 at 10:02 AM (#6082869)
@Harlond/OKC, how about this:

OKC gets: Nikola Vucevic
CHI gets: Derrick Favors, Isaiah Roby, 2024 1st rounder (least favorable of LAC, OKC, HOU)

That would round out your starting lineup -- SGA, Dort, Giddey, Jabari, Vucevic -- and make the offense run more smoothly for the young ball-handlers and shooters. You can either keep Vucevic at the deadline or flip him for a pick or a younger player. Everyone in the deal has an expiring contract.
   2916. PJ Martinez Posted: June 20, 2022 at 10:34 AM (#6082870)
Shams:
Sources: Kyrie Irving, Nets are at impasse in conversations about his future in Brooklyn, clearing way for the seven-time All-Star to consider the open market. Lakers and Knicks expected to emerge among potential suitors.
   2917. Harlond Posted: June 20, 2022 at 10:50 AM (#6082872)
Dandy, I'm not interested in Vucevic.
   2918. tshipman Posted: June 20, 2022 at 11:33 AM (#6082874)
My availability is going to be limited, so here is my board. Please just draft whoever is highest at 28 and 29:

1. MarJon Beauchamp
2. Gabriele Procida
3. Ochai Agbaji
   2919. GregF Posted: June 20, 2022 at 11:44 AM (#6082875)
2914: Daniels would have been my target for a trade up if Holmgren hadn't slipped. He should be a plus multi-position defender and distributor from day one, and even modest improvements to his outside shot and volume scoring would get him into star range.
   2920. DCA Posted: June 20, 2022 at 11:47 AM (#6082876)
aberg - if you can't decide on a pick, Cleveland would trade Caris Levert for 27 + Duncan Robinson. For you, that clears the salary for future years, and replaces a player who couldn't get run in the playoffs with one who probably can. For us, we've got our eye on somebody who won't be there at 58.
   2921. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: June 20, 2022 at 12:02 PM (#6082878)
Sources: Kyrie Irving, Nets are at impasse in conversations about his future in Brooklyn, clearing way for the seven-time All-Star to consider the open market. Lakers and Knicks expected to emerge among potential suitors.

This is probably really bad for BKN and whoever ends up biting the bullet. The rare lose/lose situation.
   2922. asinwreck Posted: June 20, 2022 at 12:17 PM (#6082881)
It would be hilarious if Kyrie wound up on the Knicks, both given the local policies that led to this moment and how, exactly, he would sabotage that franchise. Which frog will carry this scorpion will be interesting to see.
   2923. GregF Posted: June 20, 2022 at 12:26 PM (#6082883)
Sources: Kyrie Irving, Nets are at impasse in conversations about his future in Brooklyn, clearing way for the seven-time All-Star to consider the open market. Lakers and Knicks expected to emerge among potential suitors.

This is probably really bad for BKN and whoever ends up biting the bullet. The rare lose/lose situation.


This probably holds true for any other team. But wouldn't the Lakers have to see a Westbrook/picks for Irving swap as at least a relative win or a cut in losses, moving a player who fundamentally doesn't contribute to their goals for one who's only painfully unreliable in contributing?
   2924. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 20, 2022 at 12:37 PM (#6082885)
would westbrook still takes more shots than durant in this scenario?
   2925. DCA Posted: June 20, 2022 at 12:40 PM (#6082886)
Yes, but do the Lakers have enough pieces to make it worth Brooklyn's while to take on Westbrook? I realize it preserves the max salary slot for Nets, but that slot dead ends with Westbrook, I think.

And as much I want, as a fan of chaos, to see the LeBron/Irving and Durant/Westbrook pairings revived, I can't imagine any of the 4 players desires that.
   2926. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 20, 2022 at 12:48 PM (#6082887)
that's what makes it fun
   2927. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 20, 2022 at 12:56 PM (#6082888)
I think I would be on board a possible D. Russell + stuff for Irving swap between the Wolves and Nets. Maybe. Depends on the stuff, of course, and also how much I was willing to live the Irving experience.
   2928. sardonic Posted: June 20, 2022 at 01:13 PM (#6082890)
Definitely have my popcorn out for this Kyrie drama... agree that any feasible move would be a lose/lose for Kyrie and the Nets/KD. I mean on paper maybe there's some DLo for Kyrie constructions that would make sense, but I highly doubt Kyrie would sanction that, and I believe that he can effectively veto any move by essentially refusing to play for any team he doesn't want to. Also, I doubt KAT would welcome trading his buddy DLo for headcase Kyrie.

It just feels like the obvious path would be for Kyrie to just opt in and play out this season, probably contend for the east with a healthy KD, Simmons and Joe Harris, and yet that feels improbably anticlimactic.
   2929. GregF Posted: June 20, 2022 at 01:24 PM (#6082892)
2925: Looks like the Lakers have the ability to offer a couple of future firsts/swaps from 2026 onward, as well as scattered 2nds in the meantime. If the alternative is Kyrie leaving for nothing, that should be enough to produce a better result for Brooklyn, especially since they can add in the picks from the Harden deal to hunt for an alternative. (And there's always the Wall option if they're willing to sacrifice one of those future firsts.)
   2930. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 20, 2022 at 01:29 PM (#6082894)
If I am the Nets I want ZERO part of Westbrook. I would much rather lose Irving for nothing.
   2931. aberg Posted: June 20, 2022 at 01:43 PM (#6082897)
Will get my pick in within the next hour.
   2932. nick swisher hygiene Posted: June 20, 2022 at 01:45 PM (#6082898)
If I'm Westbrook's agent I maybe....look to China? I just can't see an exit strategy for him in the NBA.

I mean, if the Lakers could tell him "you run bench units for 20 minutes a night and start twice a month when Bron rests"--that would be by far the best use of Russ' talents. He wouldn't be worth his deal, but he'd be a plus. But without a moment of self-knowledge, that's not gonna happen.
   2933. aberg Posted: June 20, 2022 at 02:05 PM (#6082901)
Miami selects Ochai Agbaji.

Seeing Miami in the playoffs, it felt like they had pretty good depth, but a lot of their key perimeter bench guys (Herro, Strus) were undersized and easy to target defensively. Agbaji will be able to guard on the perimeter from day one. He should be an offensive asset in transition and has had streaks of being a plus shooter. Miami's offense should give him lots of good spot-up looks.

Also considered Jalen Hardy and Christian Koloko here. Hardy seems like the highest upside and I like Miami's player development for someone as raw as him, but with Butler, Lowry, and Tucker in key roles, it feels like the better value is someone who can contribute in the next couple of years, and Hardy is probably 2-3 years from being a useful rotation piece. I think Koloko will be a Capela-type who can role to the basket and guard the rim with some useful ability to rebound. Don't love him for Miami with Bam established up front and Yurtseven/Dedmon getting whatever other center minutes they need.

New Orleans - tshipman is on the clock.

1. Oklahoma City (Harlond) (trade) -- Jabari Smith Jr
2. Portland (mike f) (trade) -- Paolo Banchero
3. San Antonio (GregF)(trade) -- Chet Holmgren
4. Sacramento (Votto) -- Benedict Mathurin
5. Detroit (Cross-Eyed) -- Shaedon Sharpe
6. Indiana (Mellow Mouse) -- Jaden Ivey
7. Orlando (Athletic Supporter) (trade) -- Dyson Daniels
8. Indiana (Mellow Mouse) (trade) -- Keegan Murray
9. Houston (Oriole Tragic)(trade) -- Jeremy Sochan
10. Washington (HW American) -- Tyrone 'TyTy' Washington, Jr.
11. New York (. . . . . .) -- Jalen Duren (then traded to San Antonio)
12. Chicago (Dandy)(trade) -- Tari Eason
13. Charlotte (JJ1986) -- AJ Griffin
14. Indiana (Mellow Mouse) (trade) -- Nikola Jovic
15. Houston (Oriole Tragic) (trade) -- Malaki Branham
16. Atlanta (Der-K) -- Ousmane Dieng
17. Houston (Oriole Tragic) -- EJ Liddell
18. Oklahoma City (Harlond)(trade) -- Jalen Williams
19. Minnesota (TFTIO) -- Josh Minott
20. Houston (Oriole Tragic) (trade) -- Dalen Terry
21. Denver (asinwreck) -- Jake LaRavia
22. Memphis (tshipman) -- Blake Wesley
23. Philadelphia (57i66135.) -- Caleb Houstan
24. Milwaukee (Ken Griffey) -- Johnny Davis
25. New York (. . . . .) (trade) -- Mark Williams
26. Charlotte (JJ1986) (trade) -- Justin Lewis
27. Miami (aberg) -- Ochai Agbagi
28. New Orleans (tshipman) (trade) --
29. Memphis (tshipman) --
30. Denver (asinwreck) --

31. Indiana (Mellow Mouse)
32. Orlando (Athletic Supporter)
33. Toronto (Baseball Obscura)
34. Oklahoma City (Harlond)
35. Orlando (Athletic Supporter)
36. Portland (mike f)
37. Sacramento (Votto)
38. Houston (Oriole Tragic) (trade)
39. Golden State (DCA) (trade)
40. Minnesota (TFTIO)
41. Golden State (DCA)(trade)
42. San Antonio (GregF)
43. LA Clippers
44. Atlanta (Der-K)
45. Charlotte (JJ1986)
46. Detroit (Cross-Eyed)
47. Memphis (tshipman)
48. Minnesota (TFTIO)
49. Sacramento (Votto)
50. Minnesota (TFTIO)
51. Golden State (DCA)
52. Golden State (DCA)
53. Boston (winter's night)
54. Milwaukee (forfeited over Bogdan Bogdanovich)
55. Miami (forfeited over Kyle Lowry)
56. Washington (HW American)
57. Golden State (DCA)
58. Cleveland (DCA)
59. Portland (mike f)
60. San Antonio (GregF) (trade)

TRADES
1. Hawks/Der-K trade Jalen Johnson & Skylar Mays to the Thunder/harlond for Muscala, Williams, the Hornets' 2024 2nd round pick, and the Hawks' 2025 2nd round pick.
2. Pacers/Mellow Mouse trade Myles Turner to Pelicans/tshipman for 2022 #8, Jaxson Hayes, and Jonas Valancuinas.
3. Magic/Athletic Supporter trade the 2022 #1 pick to Thunder/harlond for the 2022 #2 pick and the Wizards' 2023 1st round pick (various protections)
4. Magic/Athletic Supporter trade the 2022 #2 pick to Portland/mike f for the 2022 #7 pick, the Bucks' 2025 1st round pick (protected 1-4), and Nassir Little
5. HOU trades #3 to SA for #9, #20, #38
6. Hornets/JJ1986 trade PJ Washington to Bulls/Dandy for Blazers' 2023 1st round pick (lottery protected in 2023 & thereafter)
7. SA/GregF trades McDermott, Langford, #25 to NY/. . . . . for Randle, #11 (Duren), #42
8. Cleveland/DCA trades Sexton (sign and trade: 4/70+), #14, CLE's 2026 1st (has some protections) to Indiana/MM for Malcolm Brogdon.
9. HOU trades #26 and 2023 FRP (MIL) to CHA for #15.
10. Bulls/Dandy trade Coby White, #18, Marko Simonovic to Thunder/Harlond for #12, Sixers' 2025 1st round pick (lightly protected as per Horford trade), rights to Vasilije Micic
11. Bulls/Dandy trade Patrick Williams to Spurs/GregF for Jakob Poeltl, Bulls' 2025 1st round pick (protected/conditional from DeRozan S+T), Bulls' 2025 2nd round pick
12. NOP/tshipman trades Devonte' Graham to Cleveland/DCA for Cedi Osman, Dylan Windler, #39
13. SA/GregF trades Primo, Richardson, Collins to IND/Mellow Mouse for Hield, #60
14. New Orleans/tshipman trades #39, #41, #52 to Golden State/DCA for #28
   2934. sardonic Posted: June 20, 2022 at 02:05 PM (#6082902)
If I am the Nets I want ZERO part of Westbrook. I would much rather lose Irving for nothing.


+100
   2935. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 20, 2022 at 02:08 PM (#6082903)
aberg - this is more of a mock draft than a mock offseason but -- what else would you do with the heat this summer? they're at a place where i can see a lot of different paths that they might take...
   2936. Harlond Posted: June 20, 2022 at 02:19 PM (#6082906)
For the 28th pick, the Pelicans/tshipman select Marjon Beauchamp.
For the 29th pick, the Grizzlies/tshipman select Gabriele Procida.

Asinwreck is on the clock.
   2937. asinwreck Posted: June 20, 2022 at 02:21 PM (#6082907)
With the final pick in the first round, Denver channels new PBO Calvin Booth and takes a Calvin Booth type: Walker Kessler is the new backup center.

The second round begins with Indiana (Mellow Mouse) on the clock.
   2938. aberg Posted: June 20, 2022 at 02:28 PM (#6082908)
aberg - this is more of a mock draft than a mock offseason but -- what else would you do with the heat this summer? they're at a place where i can see a lot of different paths that they might take...


I wouldn't do anything drastic. They were very close to the Finals and should expect to be back in a similar spot next year. First order of business would be to try to convince Tucker to pick up his player option. he's a great fit next to Bam in the frontcourt and if he shoots like he did this year, he's a great asset at that price.

I don't know exactly how to get this done, but I'd do whatever is possible to get Robinson over his personal slump. I think he's an important part for them going forward because they need the shooting and the firepower for the second unit.

I'd let Morris and Oladipo walk. Herro, Vincent, and Strus is a good bench guard rotation. I'd probably add a third string true PG on a vet min or as an UDFA. If Dedmon wants to come back on something around the min, I'd keep him as frontcourt depth. Otherwise, I'd look for a big who could shoot in a smallball lineup with Bam on the bench. I probably would still be in contact with OKC over J. Green if they don't intend to keep him.
   2939. DCA Posted: June 20, 2022 at 02:46 PM (#6082910)
I wonder if the Wizards would be interested in having Westbrook back. He was pretty good for them, they have nothing at PG and nothing for the fans to show up for, and it seems like Beal may be leaving. The Wiz could rob the Lakers again to steer Beal to them, and have another year of the triple double show.
   2940. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 20, 2022 at 03:11 PM (#6082915)
aberg/miami: interesting - i trade robinson if possible without paying to do so (wonder if portland woulda bit), keep oladipo if the price is ok (miami has bird rights and he does things defensively the heat could use. think the offense might bounce partly back.)

--

asinwreck, i didn't think he'd fall far enough but i really wanted walker if still on the board when i picked (especially if i did the clips). walker should have a long career.
   2941. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 20, 2022 at 03:33 PM (#6082917)
@aberg/2933: are you feeling like you got excellent value for Agbagi @ 27? Seems to me you probably did, but I haven't seen any in-game clips of him.

Agbagi is #16 on the ESPN BRP board (which I assume is still Givony and whatever is left of Schmitz), and #17 on KOC's board. He didn't make Hollinger's Top 20, though and he was #33 on Pelton's board (where Kessler is at #6!)

@asinwreck/2937: Kessler is interesting and forces me to wonder how we should value 4+ BPG, which seems like an eye-popping stat I think that stat means more (even a lot more) in the SEC, as compared to say, the WCC. As mentioned above, Pelton has this guy in the Top 10. Hollinger seems to like Williams' better, and says that Kessler "got cooked way more often" than Williams. I should say that I was hoping that Kessler would have fallen to me at #38, and I would probably have taken him sooner if I could.
   2942. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 20, 2022 at 03:38 PM (#6082919)
williams is more athletic/mobile and longer than kessler. iirc, williams had surprisingly unimpressive =/- numbers (which don't go into pelton's figuring, i imagine). i think williams has steadier shooting mechanics too?

i live in the triangle and date a unc prof/fan so i see plenty of both duke and unc (where kessler played the year before). every time i watched them, i thought they both looked great -- thought both could be late lottery / mid first round types. (how you feel about discounting non-star centers may vary)
   2943. Hot Wheeling American Posted: June 20, 2022 at 04:10 PM (#6082923)
I wonder if the Wizards would be interested in having Westbrook back. He was pretty good for them, they have nothing at PG and nothing for the fans to show up for

Until they draft TyTy!
   2944. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 20, 2022 at 04:34 PM (#6082928)
@Der-K: speaking of regional fandom...where is the dividing line for ATL/DC NBA fandom along the southern Atlantic seaboard? NC/VA border (acknowledging.that it can't be so precise as that?)

The O's used to claim that their market extended into NC, due to the number of Marylanders with summer homes in the OBX, but I'm not sure if that translates to NBA.

Is it Hawks all the way up to southern VA?
   2945. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 20, 2022 at 04:39 PM (#6082929)
North Carolina has their own NBA team, you know?!?
   2946. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 20, 2022 at 04:44 PM (#6082931)
Hahaaa! Excellent point and I confess that slipped my mind!

I even did a deal with CHA in this draft!

Classic gaffe.
   2947. aberg Posted: June 20, 2022 at 04:47 PM (#6082932)
aberg/miami: interesting - i trade robinson if possible without paying to do so (wonder if portland woulda bit), keep oladipo if the price is ok (miami has bird rights and he does things defensively the heat could use. think the offense might bounce partly back.)


Yeah, I think that's a valid approach. Oladipo surprised me when he got healthy late in the season. The pressurized defense was better than I what I expected from someone who has had so many physical problems. With that said, I'm skeptical of his offensive game and would be very worried about his health going forward. If I could get him on a one-year deal for under ~$8-9m, I'd probably take him and let someone absorb Robinson's contract.

@aberg/2933: are you feeling like you got excellent value for Agbagi @ 27? Seems to me you probably did, but I haven't seen any in-game clips of him.


I was surprised he was still there. I don't think he's going to end up as one of the five best players in the class or anything, but there have been enough guys like him in recent memory who had long and distinguished college careers, but were still able to improve in the NBA that it gives me hope that he's not a finished product. Brunson, Van Vleet, Cam Johnson all seemingly became underrated because their age made it seem like there was no remaining upside. It's true to an extent, but it's not an absolute.
   2948. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 20, 2022 at 04:54 PM (#6082933)
With the 30th pick in the 2022 NBA draft, the Indiana Pacers select Kendall Brown of Baylor. He is a bit of a project, but the athleticism is real and given my roster crunch he is likely headed to the G league anyway. You can never have enough 6' 7" athletic guys in your system.
   2949. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 20, 2022 at 04:55 PM (#6082934)
Orlando (Athletic Supporter) is on the clock.
   2950. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 20, 2022 at 05:06 PM (#6082935)
Orlando selects Kennedy Chandler, PG, Tennessee. Toronto (BaseballObscura) on the clock.
   2951. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 20, 2022 at 05:15 PM (#6082938)
ha! before the hornets were here and other sports teams were in nc (so, i'm talking the 80s - my first tour in nc started in '85), the rsn that we had (hts) showed bullets/orioles/capitals games. i'd say bullets over hawks (though college way over everything else and there were more bulls/lakers fans than anything else), washington for the nfl (though the falcons were second), and atlanta for baseball (because of tbs) with the o's not that far behind.

obv now the hornets, panthers, and hurricanes are king.
   2952. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 20, 2022 at 05:18 PM (#6082940)
Sorting roughly by position group here is how the Pacers ended up (I assume I am basically done):

Duane Washington (PG) - 22 - 6' 3"
T.J. McConnell (PG) - 30 - 6' 1"
Collin Sexton (PG/SG) - 23 - 6' 1"
Jaden Ivey (#6) (PG/SG) - 20 - 6' 4"
Tyrese Haliburton (PG/SG) - 22 - 6' 5"
Chris Duarte (SG) - 25 - 6' 6"
Terry Taylor (SG) - 22 - 6' 5"
Joshua Primo (SG/SF) - 19 - 6' 6"
Josh Richardson (SG/SF) - 28 - 6' 5"
Oshae Brissett (SF) - 23 - 6' 7"
Keegan Murray (#8) (SF/PF) 21 - 6' 8"
Kendall Brown (#31) (SF/PF) 19 - 6' 7"
Nikola Jovic (#14) (SF/PF) 19 - 6' 11"
Isaiah Jackson (PF) - 20 - 6' 10"
Zach Collins (PF/C) - 24 - 6' 11"
Goga Bitadze (C) - 22 - 6' 11"
Jaxson Hayes (C) - 22 - 6' 11"
Jonas Valančiūnas (C) - 30 - 6' 11"

Ignores two-way free agents and such. I wanted to get younger and more athletic; find a star to pair with Halliburton, while still having enough veterans around to not go full process (my ownership insisted).

My coaching staff will have its hands full.

I also picked up:

The Cav's 2026 1st (Lottery protect the 2026 R1, you get both R2 if it doesn’t convey)

I am happy with my draft.
   2953. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 20, 2022 at 05:25 PM (#6082941)
Should be. I like all of those picks (I'm not big on Ivey except that you got him at 6 - I feel like that's a kind of player I guess too low on).

I imagine, if we kept going, you'd move a center or three eventually. Probably flip Richardson?

   2954. tshipman Posted: June 20, 2022 at 05:34 PM (#6082942)
I like what Mouse did with the Pacers, too. There are a few too many bigs to eat, but you can probably cut or move some of those guys.
   2955. Harlond Posted: June 20, 2022 at 05:39 PM (#6082945)
Toronto - Baseball Obscura is on the clock.

1. Oklahoma City (Harlond) (trade) -- Jabari Smith Jr
2. Portland (mike f) (trade) -- Paolo Banchero
3. San Antonio (GregF)(trade) -- Chet Holmgren
4. Sacramento (Votto) -- Benedict Mathurin
5. Detroit (Cross-Eyed) -- Shaedon Sharpe
6. Indiana (Mellow Mouse) -- Jaden Ivey
7. Orlando (Athletic Supporter) (trade) -- Dyson Daniels
8. Indiana (Mellow Mouse) (trade) -- Keegan Murray
9. Houston (Oriole Tragic)(trade) -- Jeremy Sochan
10. Washington (HW American) -- Tyrone 'TyTy' Washington, Jr.
11. New York (. . . . . .) -- Jalen Duren (then traded to San Antonio)
12. Chicago (Dandy)(trade) -- Tari Eason
13. Charlotte (JJ1986) -- AJ Griffin
14. Indiana (Mellow Mouse) (trade) -- Nikola Jovic
15. Houston (Oriole Tragic) (trade) -- Malaki Branham
16. Atlanta (Der-K) -- Ousmane Dieng
17. Houston (Oriole Tragic) -- EJ Liddell
18. Oklahoma City (Harlond)(trade) -- Jalen Williams
19. Minnesota (TFTIO) -- Josh Minott
20. Houston (Oriole Tragic) (trade) -- Dalen Terry
21. Denver (asinwreck) -- Jake LaRavia
22. Memphis (tshipman) -- Blake Wesley
23. Philadelphia (57i66135.) -- Caleb Houstan
24. Milwaukee (Ken Griffey) -- Johnny Davis
25. New York (. . . . .) (trade) -- Mark Williams
26. Charlotte (JJ1986) (trade) -- Justin Lewis
27. Miami (aberg) -- Ochai Agbagi
28. New Orleans (tshipman) (trade) -- Marjon Beauchamp
29. Memphis (tshipman) -- Gabriele Procida
30. Denver (asinwreck) -- Walker Kessler

31. Indiana (Mellow Mouse) -- Kendall Brown
32. Orlando (Athletic Supporter) -- Kennedy Chandler
33. Toronto (Baseball Obscura) --
34. Oklahoma City (Harlond) --
35. Orlando (Athletic Supporter) --
36. Portland (mike f) --
37. Sacramento (Votto) --
38. Houston (Oriole Tragic) (trade) --
39. Golden State (DCA) (trade) --
40. Minnesota (TFTIO) --
41. Golden State (DCA)(trade) --
42. San Antonio (GregF) --
43. LA Clippers (harlond) --
44. Atlanta (Der-K) --
45. Charlotte (JJ1986) --
46. Detroit (Cross-Eyed) --
47. Memphis (tshipman) --
48. Minnesota (TFTIO) --
49. Sacramento (Votto) --
50. Minnesota (TFTIO) --
51. Golden State (DCA) --
52. Golden State (DCA) --
53. Boston (winter's night) --
54. Milwaukee (forfeited over Bogdan Bogdanovich)
55. Miami (forfeited over Kyle Lowry)
56. Washington (HW American) --
57. Golden State (DCA) --
58. Cleveland (DCA) --
59. Portland (mike f) --
60. San Antonio (GregF) (trade) --

TRADES
1. Hawks/Der-K trade Jalen Johnson & Skylar Mays to the Thunder/harlond for Muscala, Williams, the Hornets' 2024 2nd round pick, and the Hawks' 2025 2nd round pick.
2. Pacers/Mellow Mouse trade Myles Turner to Pelicans/tshipman for 2022 #8, Jaxson Hayes, and Jonas Valancuinas.
3. Magic/Athletic Supporter trade the 2022 #1 pick to Thunder/harlond for the 2022 #2 pick and the Wizards' 2023 1st round pick (various protections)
4. Magic/Athletic Supporter trade the 2022 #2 pick to Portland/mike f for the 2022 #7 pick, the Bucks' 2025 1st round pick (protected 1-4), and Nassir Little
5. HOU trades #3 to SA for #9, #20, #38
6. Hornets/JJ1986 trade PJ Washington to Bulls/Dandy for Blazers' 2023 1st round pick (lottery protected in 2023 & thereafter)
7. SA/GregF trades McDermott, Langford, #25 to NY/. . . . . for Randle, #11 (Duren), #42
8. Cleveland/DCA trades Sexton (sign and trade: 4/70+), #14, CLE's 2026 1st (has some protections) to Indiana/MM for Malcolm Brogdon.
9. HOU trades #26 and 2023 FRP (MIL) to CHA for #15.
10. Bulls/Dandy trade Coby White, #18, Marko Simonovic to Thunder/Harlond for #12, Sixers' 2025 1st round pick (lightly protected as per Horford trade), rights to Vasilije Micic
11. Bulls/Dandy trade Patrick Williams to Spurs/GregF for Jakob Poeltl, Bulls' 2025 1st round pick (protected/conditional from DeRozan S+T), Bulls' 2025 2nd round pick
12. NOP/tshipman trades Devonte' Graham to Cleveland/DCA for Cedi Osman, Dylan Windler, #39
13. SA/GregF trades Primo, Richardson, Collins to IND/Mellow Mouse for Hield, #60
14. New Orleans/tshipman trades #39, #41, #52 to Golden State/DCA for #28
   2956. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 20, 2022 at 05:47 PM (#6082947)
imagine, if we kept going, you'd move a center or three eventually. Probably flip Richardson?


Yeah, Set my coaches down and sort through the various bigs and decide what to do with them. A couple I just kind of accumulated in trades and such and ... well I think there is a good team in a couple of years in there.

If anyone has a serious hankering for any of my centers, they are available. I just kind of assumed they were ballast and while fine to have there is no need to trade something to get mine.

I think I will keep Richardson, my ownership really wants some veterans to win some games and keep the ticket holders happy (That is what I have read about Pacer ownership at any rate), so I don't want to get too bad or too young.
   2957. DCA Posted: June 20, 2022 at 05:55 PM (#6082949)
Is the roster limit still 15 + 2 guys on two-ways? If so, Mouse needs to cut 1-3 guys off that list, which shouldn't be difficult.
   2958. tshipman Posted: June 20, 2022 at 06:05 PM (#6082950)
Jonas probably has value to someone, he's basically neutral on that contract and some teams (cough Toronto cough) need bigs.

Bitadze is super cuttable. He's just a guy.

Zach Collins probably got injured while I was typing.

Isaiah Jackson probably has value to someone? Kind of a head case.
   2959. . . . . . . Posted: June 20, 2022 at 06:21 PM (#6082952)
Baseball Obscura I’ll trade you the Knicks next 2 2nds for pick #33
   2960. tshipman Posted: June 20, 2022 at 06:24 PM (#6082953)
Summary of New Orleans' offseason:

Out: Devonte Graham, Jaxson Hayes, Jonas Valuncuinas, various draft picks
In: Myles Turner, Cedi Osman, Dylan Windler (who probably gets cut in training camp)

My evaluation of the Pelicans was of a team that was trying to hedge too much and needed to commit. Either Zion will be healthy or he won't, but I would rather have conference finals upside than make the play-in. I guess in this exercise, Griff has already been fired, so I feel like I have a year to figure this out.

My lineup looks something like this:

C: Myles Turner
F: Zion Williamson
F: Brandon Ingram
G: (Not on) Herb Jones
G: CJ McCollum
6: Trey Murphy
7: Larry Nance, Jr.
8: Garrett Temple
9. Tony Snell
10. Jose Alvarado
11. Kira Lewis
12. Willy Hernangomez

The West looks like a blood bath next year, and obviously this team is incredibly dependent on Zion to play 65 games. I think that New Orleans was worse off last year by trying to have a contingency plan. Our starting 5 guys can all play, and I think this team has top 4 seed potential. They get there by being a top 5 offense (115 ORTG) and about 15 overall (112 DRTG) on defense. That would put them at about 50 wins, and with a puncher's chance of making the conference finals.

If Zion were to improve (and stay healthy), Herb Jones were to develop as a shooter, and McCollum to avoid aging poorly, you could see 55 wins as a reasonable upside.
   2961. aberg Posted: June 20, 2022 at 06:55 PM (#6082963)
I like the combo of Turner and Zion in the frontcourt. Team seems a little light on playmaking, especially if Zion misses any time. But, I think you're right that NO has to either build as if Zion is their star or build as if he's not a contributor.
   2962. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 20, 2022 at 07:09 PM (#6082964)
@MM/2952: what your take on Hayes' value on the team you've built? I'm not preparing a trade offer, I'm just curious if you see him as a keeper or as part of a package to get that star to pair with Tyrese.
   2963. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 20, 2022 at 07:46 PM (#6082970)
@MM/2952: what your take on Hayes' value on the team you've built?


He is a guy. One of the better C on my team, in theory, but he is not special enough to be a guy I need to keep or anything. I am kind of down on the Center position (though I admit a small part of me wants to build a huge team just to zig when others zag).
   2964. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 20, 2022 at 08:00 PM (#6082971)
Pacers Seriously Talking Malcolm Brogdon, Myles Turner Trades

The Indiana Pacers are seriously engaged in trade talks for veterans Malcolm Brogdon and Myles Turner. The Pacers are reportedly deciding between retooling their roster around veterans or rebuilding entirely around their younger players.

The New York Knicks and Washington Wizards have talked with Indiana about Brogdon. Both teams have a need for a starting point guard.

The Charlotte Hornets have again approached the Pacers about Myles Turner. Turner has been linked to Charlotte for the past few years as a potential trade target.


Life imitating art. :)
   2965. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 20, 2022 at 08:43 PM (#6082974)
There was an article in the Lancaster, PA newspaper yesterday about a local guy who is the first NBA player to live to 100. Whitey (Stanley) Van Nieda is the guy’s name. They refer to him as a 6’1” swing man. :)
   2966. asinwreck Posted: June 20, 2022 at 09:00 PM (#6082978)
@asinwreck/2937: Kessler is interesting and forces me to wonder how we should value 4+ BPG, which seems like an eye-popping stat I think that stat means more (even a lot more) in the SEC, as compared to say, the WCC. As mentioned above, Pelton has this guy in the Top 10. Hollinger seems to like Williams' better, and says that Kessler "got cooked way more often" than Williams. I should say that I was hoping that Kessler would have fallen to me at #38, and I would probably have taken him sooner if I could.
I had Williams above Kessler on my board, but figured Denver picked up the second 1st-round pick a few days ago in order to get a player who would take meaningful minutes this season. After I drafted LaRavia at forward, backup center to Jokić was the most realistic of the remaining options to get minutes.
North Carolina has their own NBA team, you know?!?
Try telling Kenny Atkinson.
   2967. JJ1986 Posted: June 20, 2022 at 09:27 PM (#6082983)
Hombre,

Do you still want to do the Rozier/Westbrook trade? I'd want to keep Plumlee now after moving PJ Washington, so it would be Wesbtrook and the 2027 pick (unprotected) for GH and Rozier. I don't think the real Hornets would ever consider it, but in this fictional world I can dream on 2023 capspace.
   2968. JJ1986 Posted: June 20, 2022 at 09:32 PM (#6082987)
The OG Hornets were a huge deal in Charlotte, especially the early teams. I have not lived there in 15 years, but the Horcats had to really struggle to get any hold on the fanbase. I don't think there is much ATL or WAS fandom, though; probably more Warriors or Lakers.
   2969. . . . . . . Posted: June 20, 2022 at 09:35 PM (#6082989)
Kessler is a stiff.
   2970. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 20, 2022 at 09:41 PM (#6082992)
If anyone has someone they're eyeing at 35, Orlando is open to moving down a few spots. Unclear what I want in return, but give it a shot.
   2971. GregF Posted: June 20, 2022 at 10:17 PM (#6083003)
2970: I’d send #42 with either #60 or 2023 2nd (SA or IND).
   2972. DCA Posted: June 20, 2022 at 10:18 PM (#6083004)
GSW would move 51 and 52 for 35.
   2973. tshipman Posted: June 20, 2022 at 11:06 PM (#6083015)
Do we believe this Stephen A Smith report that Kyrie held his own practices after Steve Nash left?

If so, then the Nets really are moving on and going scorched earth.
   2974. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 21, 2022 at 12:52 AM (#6083021)
I don't think I want either of those, but thanks for the offers.
   2975. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 21, 2022 at 12:58 AM (#6083022)
2967. JJ1986 Posted: June 20, 2022 at 09:27 PM (#6082983)
Hombre,

Do you still want to do the Rozier/Westbrook trade?
Westbrook for Hayward + Rozier + 2027 1st round pick. Approved on my end.
   2976. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: June 21, 2022 at 02:21 AM (#6083029)
Man, if the Lakers get a first in that deal, it's highway robbery. We might have to dig up David Stern so we can throw his corpse in front of that.
   2977. PJ Martinez Posted: June 21, 2022 at 08:39 AM (#6083033)
Do we believe this Stephen A Smith report that Kyrie held his own practices after Steve Nash left?
Co-GM Kyrie Irving? I believe it. Smith doesn't offer any details, and maybe if we knew some of the details, it wouldn't sound quite as bad. Maybe it'd even sound good? Or it might sound worse. But I believe someone told Smith that story, and that someone was probably looking to grease Irving's way out of town, or at least didn't mind if he did so.
   2978. . . . . . . Posted: June 21, 2022 at 08:51 AM (#6083035)
I dont think i have the horses to trade up to pick up, but I am stunned Patrick Baldwin has lasted this long in our draft. He's tall and he shoots like a ############, and you can fix the rest. And he has a real excuse for playing like #### in college, he's been hurt! Give him a year with pro-level training and conditioning and there's like a 50/50 chance your development team spits out the most dangerous shooter on the floor. Yes, he's high risk, but its the second round, you can drop him if he doesn't turn on his motor.
   2979. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 21, 2022 at 09:22 AM (#6083037)
Baldwin is high on my list for my 2nd rounder + it's hard to overstate just how bad he was for Milwaukee.
I wish he was doing another year in school, after having transferred.
---
Kessler - I think the idea that centers get played off the floor in X scenarios is generally overstated but, yeah, he'd be one of those played off the floor, in all likelihood. Still worth it if he can give you 25 min of good to very good drop coverage d, some efficient low post and rim running offense, and a glimmer of a shot of a three point game.
   2980. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 21, 2022 at 09:26 AM (#6083038)
Westbrook for Hayward + Rozier + 2027 1st round pick. Approved on my end.
I think they were saying Westbrook + 27 1st rounder for GH and Rozier?
   2981. DCA Posted: June 21, 2022 at 09:59 AM (#6083041)
Cleveland still has one second round pick to come, but the significant moves are done and now it's just filling out around the edges, so I can write it up. This a good team looking to take a step forward into serious contender status in 2022-23. The core is young (Garland, Okoro, Allen, Mobley) and should get better, and is coming off a nice baseline with a 44 win (47 pythag) season.

In particular, we would like to upgrade the guard/wing situation, as the team is overflowing with effective bigs and struggled last season with a shortage of smalls. We don't have cap space, so any improvement has to come from draft and trades. With the #14 pick, there did not seem to be anyone who could step in immediately at the wing to contribute to a contending rotation so it was easy to package that pick with Sexton - perhaps the weakest rotation regular - for a true plus player in Brogdon. Then, looking for a good backup PG so that Brodgon can be relied on to upgrade the wing position, we targeted Devonte' Graham, who is an exact salary match to Cedi Osman and Dylan Windler, who I would be looking to dump anyway. Per fanspo, the Brogdon and Graham trades add 7 wins to the team, and that doesn't include expected growth from the returning core. That makes this Cavs team a solid contender with a projected win total in the low 50's.

I did fail at one move, however. When Ochai Agbagi dropped into the 20's, I tried to trade into that range to grab him (NYK: Levert for Fournier + 25, then MIA: Levert for Robinson + 27). He has been frequently mocked to Cleveland at 14, but I don't have confidence in him as a #3 wing behind Okoro/Levert this year. At the end of the round, as a #4 wing behind Brogdon/Okoro/Fournier(or Robinson), I like him a lot better.

At the moment, the team is only 900k under the tax line for 2022 with 11 players signed, so even cheaping out and only signing the #58 pick to a rookie minimum deal pushes us over. We're not even going to try to stay out of the tax. Which means signing the three best FA wings we can with the TPMLE and minimum deals. Someone like Jeremy Lamb is probably a realistic best case, and two guys worse than that. Hopefully 3 darts yields one solid wing who can stay on the floor in the postseason.

Long-term, even down two first rounders to Indy (2023 and 2026), I think the team is in a strong position. All important pieces are under control for 3+ years, and we have a lot of good players on medium-size contracts, so there are a lot of pathways to roll up to a max player should one of those become available, and the door always remains open for a ring-chasing LeBron to return. The lost 2026 first rounder limits our ability to trade picks during the 2022-23 season, which is not a bad thing, as we really want to see what this core can do before cashing in more chips. Assuming a playoff team -- and if not, there are bigger problems -- the traded 2023 first will convey, which means that come next offseason we will have 3 firsts (2024, 28, and 30) potentially moveable.

Starters - Darius Garland, Malcolm Brogdon, Isaac Okoro, Evan Mobley, Jarrett Allen
PG #2 - Devonte' Graham
Bench Wings - Caris Levert, FA #1, FA #2, FA #3
Bench Bigs - Lauri Markkanen, Kevin Love, Dean Wade, Lamar Stevens

plus whoever at #58, we won't expect much from them this year.
   2982. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 21, 2022 at 10:05 AM (#6083042)
That looks like a team that is a lower-tier playoff team, but badly needs a go-to scorer (maybe Garland or Mobley can evolve into that). If the Cavs can make it into a first-round series next year, that's probably a successful season for them.
   2983. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 21, 2022 at 10:46 AM (#6083043)
Backcourt defense may be as big an issue.
   2984. asinwreck Posted: June 21, 2022 at 10:57 AM (#6083045)
It appears that our dream of Charlotte abandoning defense may come to pass.
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Mike D’Antoni is set to meet with Charlotte Hornets owner Michael Jordan on the franchise’s coaching job today, sources tell ESPN. D’Antoni was the other Charlotte finalist before Kenny Atkinson changed his mind on accepting position and stayed in Golden State on Saturday.
   2985. DCA Posted: June 21, 2022 at 11:01 AM (#6083046)
Does Charlotte have any defense to abandon?
   2986. asinwreck Posted: June 21, 2022 at 11:04 AM (#6083047)
This would be the test. Or a test. Paul Westhead is still alive.
   2987. tshipman Posted: June 21, 2022 at 11:09 AM (#6083048)
Michael Daniel Anthony is the perfect coach for where the Hornets are right now.
   2988. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 21, 2022 at 11:12 AM (#6083049)
RIP Caleb Swanigan, 25.
---
For Athletic subscribers, the Vecenie draft guide (all 130 pages) is now available.
   2989. . . . . . . Posted: June 21, 2022 at 12:15 PM (#6083054)
RIP Caleb Swanigan, 25.


I don't know how many in this thread are familiar with his story, but this is crushingly sad.

It is so hard to make it out.
   2990. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 21, 2022 at 12:17 PM (#6083055)
i am and i agree
   2991. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 21, 2022 at 12:18 PM (#6083056)
If so, then the Nets really are moving on and going scorched earth.

Apparently Windhorst said on the latest Hoop Collective podcast that Irving's camp is trying to create leverage for a longer-term deal by making it known that he's willing to test free agency. My guess is still that Brooklyn wants him to opt in so they can try to have a less disastrous year before extending him and Kyrie's camp wants the bag, so this could become even more of an interestingly semi-public pissing contest. Off the top of my head, of course, it's hard to figure out a team that has close to cap space and would have any interest in the Kyrie experience. I guess Brooklyn would be dumb not to do a sign and trade if there were one available, but that's not as easy to arrange as it used to be either. I'm still assuming he'll go back, maybe for a compromise max 1+1 or something, but it sure seems like it'll be a loud process no matter what.

Edit: Oof, what devastatingly sad news about Swanigan.
   2992. Harlond Posted: June 21, 2022 at 01:06 PM (#6083064)
#2978--At the combine Baldwin was nearly the slowest player there on lane agility, shuttle run, and 3/4 court sprint. Kofi Cockburn is 63 lbs heavier and dusted Baldwin in the 3/4 court sprint, and was equal or better than him in lane agility and shuttle run. Baldwin can't jump either, posting the worst max vertical at the combine (6 inches less than the 293 lb Cockburn).
   2993. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 21, 2022 at 01:13 PM (#6083066)
Should we just pick Best Remaining Player (from ESPN or Ringer or whatever) for Toronto?
   2994. . . . . . . Posted: June 21, 2022 at 01:48 PM (#6083069)
2992 Baldwin is hurt and out of shape. If he was healthy and fit he’d be a top 10 pick.

You are betting that you can get him healthy and fit once he’s working with a pro training staff.
   2995. DCA Posted: June 21, 2022 at 02:13 PM (#6083072)
I was looking at potential landing spots for Kyrie ... here's what I've got

NOP: for JV, Devonte', Temple, Kira. Pelicans would be pretty thin after it's all done, but Kyrie/McCollum/Ingram/Zion/Nance has serious star power and will score (and let score) a whole bunch of points.

WAS: straight up for Porzingis works. If the Wiz resign Beal they pretty much have to do something like this.

NYK: for Randle + RJ Barrett (or another $10m+ in salary, Burks is not quite enough). Barrett fits into the Harden TE so Knicks get a nice trade exception (about $20m) for the Kyrie-Randle salary difference.

I think a Wiz deal could work, actually.
   2996. DCA Posted: June 21, 2022 at 02:14 PM (#6083073)
Should we just pick Best Remaining Player (from ESPN or Ringer or whatever) for Toronto?

I'd give it until tonight, at least. We slowed considerably over the weekend.
   2997. tshipman Posted: June 21, 2022 at 02:19 PM (#6083075)
2992 Baldwin is hurt and out of shape. If he was healthy and fit he’d be a top 10 pick.

You are betting that you can get him healthy and fit once he’s working with a pro training staff.


Was he too fat to shoot FTs? Because his numbers are unimpressive pretty much across the board.

NOP: for JV, Devonte', Temple, Kira. Pelicans would be pretty thin after it's all done, but Kyrie/McCollum/Ingram/Zion/Nance has serious star power and will score (and let score) a whole bunch of points.


I dunno ... that's such a poor defensive team and has 4 guys who need the ball and four guys who are injury prone. I don't think I would make that deal as New Orleans.
   2998. asinwreck Posted: June 21, 2022 at 02:26 PM (#6083080)
So sad to hear about Caleb Swanigan. What he did at Purdue was amazing even aside from his path to get to college.
   2999. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 21, 2022 at 03:30 PM (#6083099)
You are betting that you can get him healthy and fit once he’s working with a pro training staff.
it worked for dougie mcbuckets.
   3000. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 21, 2022 at 03:33 PM (#6083100)
Westbrook for Hayward + Rozier + 2027 1st round pick.m
I screwed that up. The Lakers are giving up the pick, not Charlotte.

Westbrook + 2027 #1 for Hayward + Rozier is good with me.
The pick is unprotected.
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