Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, November 07, 2022

2023 CONTEMPORARY BASEBALL ERA BALLOT

Eight former big league players comprise the Contemporary Baseball Era player ballot to be reviewed and voted upon Dec. 4 at the Baseball Winter Meetings.

Albert Belle, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Dale Murphy, Rafael Palmeiro and Curt Schilling are the candidates the Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee will consider for Hall of Fame election for the Class of 2023. All candidates are living.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 07, 2022 at 12:21 PM | 139 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
   101. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2022 at 12:51 PM (#6107022)
Lots of Twins connections on that committee - Jack Morris, Dave St. Peter and LaVelle Neal. If they had nominated Whitaker this committee (Morris, Trammell, Sandberg) would have elected him.
   102. SoSH U at work Posted: November 28, 2022 at 12:53 PM (#6107023)
The committee has been named: Chipper Jones, Greg Maddux, Jack Morris, Ryne Sandberg, Lee Smith, Frank Thomas, Alan Trammell, Paul Beeston, Theo Epstein, Arte Moreno, Kim Ng, Dave St. Peter, Ken Williams, Steve Hirdt, LaVelle Neal, Susan Slusser


Neal voted for Bonds, Clemens and Schilling their last time on the ballot. He's the only one who voted in the 2022 BBWAA election.
   103. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2022 at 12:54 PM (#6107024)
http://bbwaa.baseball.vote/voters/lavelle-e-neal-iii

LaVelle has voted for Bonds, Clemens and Schilling in the past. He also voted for McGriff once.
   104. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2022 at 12:56 PM (#6107025)
Theo Epstein sitting on the same committee that will probably consider him for induction some day.
   105. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2022 at 12:58 PM (#6107029)
Slusser is also a past Yes for Bonds, Clemens, Schilling
   106. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 28, 2022 at 01:53 PM (#6107041)
Frank Thomas has been pretty vocal against PEDs.

"Some of these guys were great players, but they wouldn't have been great players without drugs. ... I don't mind these guys doing what they want to do for their families and make their money. But don't come calling to the Hall of Fame and say, 'I'm supposed to be in the Hall of Fame,' when you know you cheated."


Jack Morris:

Any thoughts about how the Hall of Fame officials should handle this generation of baseball players that have been linked to steroid use?

I have personal belief that anyone cheating should not be allowed in the game, because there is a huge definition of the Hall of Fame that all writers are supposed to consider when they elect a person, and (part) of that definition is, did they uphold the integrity of the game? And by cheating, that is not upholding the integrity of the game. ... I’m not alone, by the way, in that personal belief. Because what message would we be sending to our kids? Do whatever it takes to win. And that’s not a good message.


Ryne Sandberg is a no:

“No steroid guys [should be] in the Hall of Fame,” Sandberg told FanSided. “It’s about stats, integrity and playing by the rules. There’s no cheating in Major League Baseball or the Hall of Fame.”


Chipper Jones seems open to letting PED players in

   107. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 28, 2022 at 02:01 PM (#6107042)
FFS, they not only put Jack Morris and Lee Smith in the Hall, now they’re letting them decide who else gets in??
   108. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2022 at 02:19 PM (#6107048)
Jayson Stark tweeting that Theo once had Thanksgiving with Curt Schilling. I think this is the year for Curt.
   109. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 28, 2022 at 02:25 PM (#6107049)
Jayson Stark tweeting that Theo once had Thanksgiving with Curt Schilling. I think this is the year for Curt.
I think that depends a *lot* on what year that Thanksgiving was, no?
   110. reech Posted: November 28, 2022 at 04:03 PM (#6107068)
My guess is that Schilling (2 writers votes already- maybe Stark too?) and McGriff- (2 Braves teammates plus the "non-steroid" push) get in.

If Trammell, Morris and Sandberg are thumbs down already for Bonds and Clemens, based on previous statements, they ain't getting in.
   111. kcgard2 Posted: November 28, 2022 at 04:14 PM (#6107069)
There's something hilarious about Jack Morris being one of the people who now chooses who does and does not get into the HOF. Additionally, how must it feel for Trammell to be on this committee from the outside looking across the table at Morris and Smith on the inside. Some interesting dynamics on this committee's makeup.
   112. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2022 at 04:46 PM (#6107075)
I don't know how McGriff gets in unless 3/4 of the people leave Clemens and Bonds off the ballot. The "vote for 3" rule combined with "Bonds and Clemens" voters really only leaves one more ballot spot to gain consensus.

If Rolen doesn't make it to 75% then next summer's induction ceremony could be Curt Schilling all by himself.
   113. DL from MN Posted: November 28, 2022 at 04:47 PM (#6107076)
Trammell to be on this committee from the outside


Trammell was inducted in 2018.
   114. Space Force fan Posted: November 28, 2022 at 05:10 PM (#6107082)
PED using HOFers taking a hard stance that other PEDs are disqualifying is a bit hard to take.
   115. alilisd Posted: November 28, 2022 at 06:33 PM (#6107087)
Chipper Jones, Greg Maddux, Jack Morris, Ryne Sandberg, Lee Smith, Frank Thomas, Alan Trammell


That's quite an interesting group of players. Some pretty inner circle and very solid HOF, one guy who had to wait for a committee to put him in for what seem to me to be unfathomable reasons, and two other guys who were put in by a committee for unfathomable reasons, IMO.
   116. alilisd Posted: November 28, 2022 at 06:37 PM (#6107088)
FFS, they not only put Jack Morris and Lee Smith in the Hall, now they’re letting them decide who else gets in??


yeah this seems utterly absurd
   117. SoSH U at work Posted: November 28, 2022 at 06:50 PM (#6107089)
yeah this seems utterly absurd


Why? While I can understand specific objections to Morris, given his thoughts on stuff, I'm not sure that a questionable Hall of Famer is any less qualified to evaluate his peers than an inner circle type.

   118. Moeball Posted: November 29, 2022 at 02:29 AM (#6107120)
#54 CFB - a little surprised that you rate Edmonds as borderline and not a sure thing. Obviously the writers didn't think he was even borderline. He retired, however, with 35 WAA per B-Ref and that's inside the top 100 position players of all time, easily in the top 1% of all players, which I think would make the cut even for small Hall people. He didn't have the career counting stats the writers look for but in terms of actual value provided in helping teams win, I don't think there can be any doubt that he was outstanding.
   119. alilisd Posted: November 29, 2022 at 02:59 PM (#6107198)
Why?


Because I find Morris absurd and objectionable, while I only find Smith absurd. Simple as that, a statement of opinion/preference.
   120. alilisd Posted: November 29, 2022 at 03:09 PM (#6107200)
Moeball Posted: November 29, 2022 at 02:29 AM (#6107120) #54 CFB - a little surprised that you rate Edmonds as borderline and not a sure thing. Obviously the writers didn't think he was even borderline.


I don't think the writers were expressing any such opinion. He basically fell into the same situation Kenny Lofton, another well qualified CF who was one and done, fell into. Both came onto exceptionally crowded ballots and were unfortunately overlooked by some and could not find room on the ballots of other voters due to the 10 player restriction. In 2013 no one went in with Biggio, Piazza, Schilling, Clemens, Bonds, and Sosa all making 5% while Lofton fell off. The next year they put three in, but all were first ballot guys, and added Mussina and Kent to the ballot. The next year four more went in, but three were first ballot guys and Sheff was added to the ballot. When Edmonds debuted in 2016, Griffey went in first ballot along with Piazza, while Hoffman picked up huge support in his first year and Wagner finishing down ballot. Oh the reliever love! With 19 guys gaining more than 5% of the vote, I don't think it was really that the writers didn't think he was even borderline, just that there were far too many other well qualified candidates, and far too many writers who think relievers are worthy of the HOF, even to the exclusion of a position player with Edmonds' qualifications
   121. bachslunch Posted: November 29, 2022 at 09:44 PM (#6107275)
And regarding the regular ballot, Thibs Tracker is up and already has three ballots listed. Most interesting things:

-Helton, Rolen, and Wagner are on all three ballots.

-Carlos Beltran is on no ballots at all.

A-Rod, Sheffield, and Kent are on two ballots. Abreu, Buehrle, A. Jones, Pettitte, Manny, F-Rod, and Vizquel have one vote each.
   122. Booey Posted: November 29, 2022 at 10:01 PM (#6107276)
#121 - Fearless prediction: Beltran will be lumped into the same "cheaters" basket as the PED guys and won't ever come close to election via the writers.
   123. SoSH U at work Posted: November 29, 2022 at 10:36 PM (#6107283)
Because I find Morris absurd and objectionable, while I only find Smith absurd. Simple as that, a statement of opinion/preference.


Scratch Jack then. I don't see how Smith's lack of merit makes him less likely to be able to evaluate who belongs than an obvious Hall of Famer like Chipper Jones.
   124. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: December 03, 2022 at 11:21 AM (#6107744)
Kind of funny that one of the voters on whether Palmeiro will go into the Hall is Ryne Sandberg.
   125. DL from MN Posted: December 03, 2022 at 08:15 PM (#6107820)
Kind of funny that one of the voters on whether Palmeiro will go into the Hall is Ryne Sandberg.


I hadn't thought of that. Can't imagine he'll be rounding up votes for Raffy.
   126. DL from MN Posted: December 04, 2022 at 08:16 PM (#6107902)
McGriff unanimously? I guess so. Welcome to the Hall of First Basemen and Relievers.
   127. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: December 04, 2022 at 08:20 PM (#6107904)
Bonds with less than four votes. He's never going in, and the hall has officially jumped the shark.
   128. Howie Menckel Posted: December 04, 2022 at 08:22 PM (#6107905)
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
7m
Results of the Contemporary Baseball Era Players Ballot (12 votes needed for election): Fred McGriff (16 votes, 100.0%); Don Mattingly (8 votes, 50%); Curt Schilling (7 votes, 43.8%); Dale Murphy (6 votes, 37.5%); Belle, Bonds, Clemens and Palmeiro each received fewer than 4
   129. reech Posted: December 04, 2022 at 08:28 PM (#6107907)
Vote totals indicate that if you are not of "high character"- you ain't getting in.
   130. Booey Posted: December 04, 2022 at 08:39 PM (#6107915)
#129 - Yeah. I'm okay with McGriff getting in, but the vote totals for Mattingly, Murphy, and especially Schilling bother me (even ignoring the PED guys, of course). It tells me that likeability was the single most important criterion in this election.
   131. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: December 04, 2022 at 08:42 PM (#6107918)
I wonder what accounts for the difference between mock voters at BBTF and the real voters. In voting around here we hardly care at all about steroids or the fact the curt schilling is an asshat.
   132. sanny manguillen Posted: December 04, 2022 at 08:55 PM (#6107922)
). It tells me that likeability was the single most important criterion in this election.


With both Baines and now McGriff, I think the committees probably came around to the notion that they would have reached milestone numbers if not for labor stoppages.
   133. Booey Posted: December 04, 2022 at 08:58 PM (#6107923)
#131 - Yeah. I expected the voters to continue the de-facto ban on PED users, but it was surprising and disappointing that they apparently put even more weight on "asshattery" than the BBWAA did. It's such a silly (and childish) reason to snub someone.
   134. SoSH U at work Posted: December 04, 2022 at 09:51 PM (#6107941)
but it was surprising and disappointing that they apparently put even more weight on "asshattery" than the BBWAA did. It's such a silly (and childish) reason to snub someone.


I agree with the general sentiment, but describing Schilling's conduct in recent years as mere "asshattery" isn't accurate.
   135. Booey Posted: December 04, 2022 at 10:08 PM (#6107943)
#134 - Yeah, I was just repeating the term Ziggy used. ;-) Overall point still stands, though.
   136. alilisd Posted: December 05, 2022 at 01:39 PM (#6108054)
It tells me that likeability was the single most important criterion in this election.


This is a long standing issue with the VC/Era Committees.
   137. alilisd Posted: December 05, 2022 at 01:40 PM (#6108055)
Scratch Jack then. I don't see how Smith's lack of merit makes him less likely to be able to evaluate who belongs than an obvious Hall of Famer like Chipper Jones.



a statement of opinion/preference. Is there something about this you don't understand? :-)
   138. alilisd Posted: December 05, 2022 at 01:45 PM (#6108060)
With both Baines and now McGriff, I think the committees probably came around to the notion that they would have reached milestone numbers if not for labor stoppages.


Yeah, no. Maybe this came up in discussion of McGriff, although I don't recall it being a significant point raised at any time during his time on the BBWAA ballot, but there are no milestone numbers Baines would have reached. That was pure backroom dealing by LaRussa and Reinsdorf.
   139. SoSH U at work Posted: December 05, 2022 at 01:52 PM (#6108062)
a statement of opinion/preference. Is there something about this you don't understand? :-)


In the context of the conversation, yes, very much so.
Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOrioles to decline 5-year Camden Yards lease extension, seek to secure long-term agreement
(73 - 7:01pm, Feb 04)
Last: McCoy

Sox TherapyThe Future Starts Now (Hopefully)
(18 - 6:59pm, Feb 04)
Last: Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - Hi Ho Hi Ho it’s Back to Club Football We Go
(379 - 6:44pm, Feb 04)
Last: Biff, highly-regarded young guy

NewsblogMLB forms economic group as regional TV in peril
(2 - 6:14pm, Feb 04)
Last: Srul Itza

Newsblog2023 NBA Regular Season Thread
(347 - 6:13pm, Feb 04)
Last: tshipman

NewsblogRed Sox manager Alex Cora on his time with 2017 Astros, per new book: 'We stole that ... World Serie
(7 - 6:10pm, Feb 04)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogBaseball Hall of Fame tracker 2023
(743 - 5:38pm, Feb 04)
Last: Joyful Calculus Instructor

NewsblogMLB expansion: Nashville group led by Dave Stewart makes a pitch for Music City [$]
(26 - 3:00pm, Feb 04)
Last: DFA

NewsblogHow to Watch the Caribbean Series
(5 - 1:18pm, Feb 04)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Sultan

NewsblogThese MLB legends were trailblazers in Japan
(5 - 12:53pm, Feb 04)
Last: alilisd

Hall of MeritReranking Left Fielders: Results
(12 - 12:21am, Feb 04)
Last: Chris Cobb

NewsblogOT - 2022 NFL thread Part II
(330 - 11:03pm, Feb 03)
Last: Joyful Calculus Instructor

NewsblogSinclair’s Sports Channels Prepare Bankruptcy, Putting Team Payments at Risk
(26 - 7:01pm, Feb 03)
Last: Greg Franklin

Hall of MeritRanking Right Fielders in the Hall of Merit - Discussion thread
(43 - 6:03pm, Feb 03)
Last: Jaack

NewsblogJohn Adams, Who Banged His Drum in the Cleveland Bleachers, Has Died
(16 - 2:25pm, Feb 03)
Last: Barry`s_Lazy_Boy

Page rendered in 0.2649 seconds
45 querie(s) executed