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Monday, January 09, 2023

2023 NBA Regular Season Thread

I estimate that this new thread should have been posted 10-12 days ago, at least.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 09, 2023 at 11:55 AM | 1230 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: basketball, future first round picks, nba, off-topic

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1. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 09, 2023 at 11:58 AM (#6112537)

Link goes to the thread before this one, but since that locked early, here's the link to the preseason thread, which has the most recent comments.

---

Sorry for not getting it up sooner, been sick as a sick dog the last 3+ weeks. Hint to anyone else with keys - you can change the comment expiration date when you post a thread (or even after it's posted) since the default is 2 months. That's how I keep the ones I post open so long.

2. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 09, 2023 at 12:04 PM (#6112538)

New thread, new Timberwolves having won 4 straight (some even against good teams).

3. tshipman

Posted: January 09, 2023 at 12:10 PM (#6112539)

The 6-10 spots in the west this year are going to be a real dogshit dogfight.

4. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 09, 2023 at 12:12 PM (#6112540)

K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop ·Jan 7

During their 8-3 stretch, Bulls own NBA's 4th-best offensive rating at 119.2.

Also, Bulls figuring out some things offensively. Bulls could (should?) be 10-1 in that stretch, both losses to Cleveland included pretty bad blown calls in the last seconds of the games (Spida should have been called for a lane violation, but that 71 was cool even if 15 of them shouldn't have counted - he scored 13 in OT).

Biggest thing has been LaVine's shooting. Some of variance for sure, but his shot selection is evolving and moving away for so much mid range and more at the basket (he looks healthy and is finishing again) and 3's.

5. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 09, 2023 at 12:13 PM (#6112541)

KD MCL sprain, re-evaluated in 2 weeks.

6. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 09, 2023 at 04:59 PM (#6112583)

The Nets are the NBA’s hottest team. They’ve lost one game in the last four weeks and became a blowtorch in December, sporting an NBA-best 120.5 offensive rating. But even all of that doesn’t begin to describe how impressive their season has become
[...]
Brooklyn’s shooting success goes far beyond Irving and Durant. Seth Curry and Joe Harris are the third- and fourth-most accurate 3-point shooters in NBA history (minimum 1,000 attempts). Yuta Watanabe is a blazing 52.7 percent behind the arc. Royce O’Neale and T.J. Warren can’t be ignored 25 feet from the basket. Patty Mills isn’t even in the rotation but is a career 39 percent 3-point shooter.
[...]
sometimes basketball is a simple game; when a team makes a lot of shots, regardless of their degree of difficulty or where they’re launched on the floor, wounds heal, flaws are glossed over, and lots of games are won.

7. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 09, 2023 at 05:05 PM (#6112584)

The Nets are the NBA’s hottest team. They’ve lost one game in the last four weeks

To the Bulls, thank you very much.

8. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: January 09, 2023 at 08:40 PM (#6112618)

Absolutely wild to me that it's taken until January for Robert Williams to get a start, even if he's on a de facto minutes restriction (some recent player comments make it clear there's no medically-mandated limit, but it seems Mazzulla's taking the long view in allocating his minutes). I haven't checked the numbers yet, but the impact he's with the "other" starters this season has been obvious to watch for a while already.

9. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: January 09, 2023 at 08:50 PM (#6112621)

The Suns are falling apart, in health and in play.

10. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 09, 2023 at 10:16 PM (#6112628)

In case anyone else here a) has youtube tv for NBA watching and b) doesn't love every commentary team in the league, it seems to be the case that you can choose secondary audio in the settings gear for games to just listen to game sounds blissfully commentary-free.

11. PJ Martinez Posted: January 10, 2023 at 12:12 AM (#6112638)

"The Nets Might Be the Greatest Shooting Team Ever" — so great, in fact, that their offense is almost as efficient as the offenses in Utah, Denver, and Boston.

I know, I know — the Nets were a mess early on and Kyrie was suspended for a while and now they're playing better. Maybe they'll be such a collective blowtorch after KD returns from injury that they'll finish with the best offense this season. Or maybe this is a particularly hot stretch from a very good shooting team that has the fourth-best offense in the NBA thus far.

12. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 10, 2023 at 09:25 AM (#6112650)

I'm so old I remember this headline: "The Lakers might be the worst-shooting team in NBA history" https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/34876180/the-lakers-worst-shooting-team-nba-history

And now they're only the 7th worst this season! I guess the article headlines include "might" so then anything goes. I might win the lottery!

13. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 10, 2023 at 02:49 PM (#6112713)

Why?

14. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: January 10, 2023 at 02:55 PM (#6112715)

yay - new thread is here!

otto porter out for the year (foot); i guess basketball players from missouri surnamed porter just can't stay healthy (shout out to mpj's siblings jontay/bri/cierra who all have had heavy injuries up to the point of early retirement).

15. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 10, 2023 at 03:48 PM (#6112727)

Why?

The man had a 10+ year career despite averaging 8 pts/36 minutes. I found this cool list that puts Jeffries in company with NBA champs like Bruce Bowen and Ben Wallace.

16. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 10, 2023 at 07:54 PM (#6112766)

Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
There have been a lot of NBA basketball games. This is certainly one of them.

Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
all the energy of a funeral home in this arena so far

17. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: January 10, 2023 at 10:12 PM (#6112773)

The "Of all the X in the world, this is certainly one of them" construction is a favourite of mine.

18. Oriole Tragic Posted: January 10, 2023 at 11:50 PM (#6112779)

Miami shot 40-for-40 at the stripe tonight. That's different. They only beat OKC by one point.

19. SamHaggertyFan Posted: January 11, 2023 at 02:00 AM (#6112784)

(shout out to mpj's siblings jontay/bri/cierra who all have had heavy injuries up to the point of early retirement)

No longer in the NBA, but rumors of Jontay Porter's demise have been greatly exaggerated!

Also, younger brother Jevon is putting up decent numbers as a freshman at Pepperdine, becoming the first member of the family to actually play for MPJ's godfather Lorenzo Romar after he and Jontay were committed to UW.

20. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 11, 2023 at 09:48 AM (#6112802)

hy?

Is that Drew Carey? Did he take shrinking juice?

21. DCA Posted: January 11, 2023 at 11:12 AM (#6112812)

The man had a 10+ year career despite averaging 8 pts/36 minutes. I found this cool list that puts Jeffries in company with NBA champs like Bruce Bowen and Ben Wallace.

Predictably, it's mostly defense-and-rebounding bigs, with some low usage wings like Bowen. One guy really stands out. Only one player on the list has more than 2 Assists per 36 minutes. That's Nate McMillan, with 6.1 assists/36. No one else like him.

22. smileyy Posted: January 11, 2023 at 12:13 PM (#6112823)

Anyone miss the days of an immobile offensively-inept big like those on the list? Anyone?

23. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: January 11, 2023 at 12:52 PM (#6112830)

Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
all the energy of a funeral home in this arena so far

Lol I was there last night and that was certainly the case. Even when Jaden Springer started cooking!

24. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 11, 2023 at 01:23 PM (#6112832)

I think it's a shame that the rebounding specialist has gone extinct, your Dale Davis/Michael Cage types. Maybe because that was my only skill.

I'm finally reading "Blood in the Garden" by Chris Herring. Anthony Mason was one of my favorite players, but boy was he a mess off the court. And Riley's exit from the Knicks was really slimy.

25. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 11, 2023 at 02:35 PM (#6112841)

I think it's a shame that the rebounding specialist has gone extinct, your Dale Davis/Michael Cage types.

I think Andre Drummond still counts on that type. He's been pretty good (all relatively speaking of course) as a backup C on the Bulls this year. Does fine against backups, sucks up most of the rebounds when he's out there, and even has a little offensive chemistry with Dragic. His minutes aren't a net zero, which is miles better than the Tony Bradlely/Tristan Thompson garbage from last year (so the caveat is maybe he only looks useful compared to those scrubs).

26. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 11, 2023 at 02:36 PM (#6112842)

Anyone miss the days of an immobile offensively-inept big like those on the list? Anyone?

not really.

although i guess i do miss the days of other teams playing immobile offensively-inept bigs.

back when i played video games, i'd run smallball lineups all the time, with someone like shawn marion or lamar odom at PF, and a 2nd PG like dragic or aaron brooks at SG. of course, i'd usually balance that kind of thing out by running yao or shaq or ilgauskas at center

27. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 11, 2023 at 02:49 PM (#6112843)

I would have sworn you'd have done jumbo lineups with a yao/pau backcourt or something like that.

28. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 11, 2023 at 03:01 PM (#6112848)

I would have sworn you'd have done jumbo lineups with a yao/pau backcourt or something like that.

i'm pretty sure i ran my fair share of lebron/grant hill/lamar odom at PG lineups, too.

29. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: January 11, 2023 at 03:03 PM (#6112849)

This is before Nerlens Noel changed basketball forever, Moses.

30. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 11, 2023 at 03:16 PM (#6112850)

I think Andre Drummond still counts on that type. He's been pretty good (all relatively speaking of course) as a backup C on the Bulls this year.

Totally, and this archetype still exists at the Center position (nurkic, zubac, plumlees). Power forwards, though, have to be able to dribble and/or shoot. It's a win for the game of basketball, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss that type of player.

31. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: January 11, 2023 at 03:30 PM (#6112852)

back when i played video games, i'd run smallball lineups all the time, with someone like shawn marion or lamar odom at PF,

Eh? Am I miss-remembering things again? Wasn't Odom naturally a PF?

32. DCA Posted: January 11, 2023 at 03:39 PM (#6112858)

back when i played video games, i'd run smallball lineups all the time, with someone like shawn marion or lamar odom at PF,

i'm pretty sure i ran my fair share of lebron/grant hill/lamar odom at PG lineups, too.

I've always assumed the archetypal 57i66135 lineup is

PG Lamar Odom
SG Lamar Odom
SF Lamar Odom
PF Lamar Odom
C Nerlens Noel

33. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 11, 2023 at 03:53 PM (#6112861)

i'm pretty sure i ran my fair share of lebron/grant hill/lamar odom at PG lineups, too.

Ben Simmons must have truly broken your heart :)

34. Hombre Brotani

Posted: January 11, 2023 at 03:58 PM (#6112862)

I think it's a shame that the rebounding specialist has gone extinct, your Dale Davis/Michael Cage types.

Michael Cage inspired me to buy a fruit juicer. No lie.

35. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: January 11, 2023 at 04:02 PM (#6112863)

I've always assumed the archetypal 57i66135 lineup is

PG Lamar Odom
SG Lamar Odom
SF Lamar Odom
PF Lamar Odom
C Nerlens Noel

Needs more Andrei Kirilenko.

36. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 11, 2023 at 04:07 PM (#6112865)

I've always assumed the archetypal 57i66135 lineup is

PG Lamar Odom
SG Lamar Odom
SF Lamar Odom
PF Lamar Odom
C Nerlens Noel

i mean, you're not wrong.

Eh? Am I miss-remembering things again? Wasn't Odom naturally a PF?

i think he was mostly a SF until the lakers got gasol.

it was kind of a big deal when he played the 5 for team USA back around 2010.

Needs more Andrei Kirilenko.

kirilenko was usually too hard to get.

i was big on gerald wallace, though.

37. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: January 11, 2023 at 07:12 PM (#6112901)

Eh? Am I miss-remembering things again? Wasn't Odom naturally a PF?

i think he was mostly a SF until the lakers got gasol.

Looking back at those Laker's rosters - looks like they just played giant ball. 09-10, starting 5 of Fisher, Kobe, World Peace, Bynum, Gasol, with Odom filling in for everyone except for Fisher. That's a big team.

38. spivey Posted: January 11, 2023 at 08:24 PM (#6112905)

Looking back at those Laker's rosters - looks like they just played giant ball. 09-10, starting 5 of Fisher, Kobe, World Peace, Bynum, Gasol, with Odom filling in for everyone except for Fisher. That's a big team.

Had Ariza one of the title years too.

Being big as #### is a great way to win a title, if you don't sacrifice speed and skill in the process.

39. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: January 12, 2023 at 01:47 AM (#6112925)

Twolves lay down for the Pistons again. God almighty.

40. aberg Posted: January 12, 2023 at 04:30 AM (#6112928)

Knowing what we know now, do you think that Mark Zuckerberg sponsored Ron Artest's name change?

41. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 12, 2023 at 08:28 AM (#6112935)

Twolves lay down for the Pistons again. God almighty.

Only in the 3rd Qtr.

Wait, that doesn't make it better.

42. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 12, 2023 at 10:56 AM (#6112953)

Knowing what we know now, do you think that Mark Zuckerberg sponsored Ron Artest's name change?

nah; if zuckercorn was behind it, the name change would have been to "metta indifferent t'genocide"

43. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 12, 2023 at 04:46 PM (#6113001)

Metta WordPress

44. Paul D(uda) Posted: January 12, 2023 at 04:59 PM (#6113004)

If you've been wondering what Kevin Arnovitz was up to.. he wrote a script which made the black list

45. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: January 12, 2023 at 05:09 PM (#6113005)

Raptors fan here.

Is it time for Toronto to do something radical and admit that the team full of 6'8" Swiss Army knives doesn't work? It's no fun cheering for a team that is neither here (going to make noise in the playoffs) nor there (tanking for draft).

But a big part of me still looks at their roster and utters the classic fan line: "If they just shot the ball better, they'd be awesome . . ."

46. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 12, 2023 at 06:13 PM (#6113013)

I vividly remember this Shaq/Brad Miller fight, I was even at this game.

What I absolutely did not remember was the number of other Guys that were involved. Just one amazing cameo after another in that video - including the guy Shaq really should have been mad at instead of Miller. Those post MJ Bulls teams were just wild with guys that played a month or a year in Chicago.

47. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 12, 2023 at 06:28 PM (#6113016)

Raptors fan here.

Is it time for Toronto to do something radical and admit that the team full of 6'8" Swiss Army knives doesn't work? It's no fun cheering for a team that is neither here (going to make noise in the playoffs) nor there (tanking for draft).

But a big part of me still looks at their roster and utters the classic fan line: "If they just shot the ball better, they'd be awesome . . ."

just trade for kawhi again, 4head.

48. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: January 12, 2023 at 07:49 PM (#6113026)

The Raptors aren't hopeless, just disjointed. They are underperforming their talent level in a way that feels easy to sustain in the short term and reasonable to correct in a single offseason, plus they own their own pick in a draft with some very interesting prospects (including, crucially, ones who aren't 6'8" swiss army knives); and aside from FVV, Gary Trent, and the ghost of Otto Porter, they have another year of team control before they really have to decide anything on their veterans. They'll still have a brighter-than-average near-term outlook if they do nothing.

That said, they should absolutely be kicking the tires on both a consolidation trade (though I would be genuinely surprised if one materializes: I can think of teams with either a need to overhaul their forward rotation or an impact ballhandler and/or shooter to spare, but none with both) and more future-asset-oriented deals for Van Vleet and Trent. But I kinda suspect that the most frustrating outcome is the most likely and they'll end up sitting pat.

49. Russlan is not Russian Posted: January 13, 2023 at 12:54 AM (#6113053)

The Lakers are about to suffer a brutal loss against the Mavs in double overtime. They had chances to win the game both at the end of regulation and at the end of the first overtime. Doncic hit game tying threes both times and the Lakers missed chances to win the game after that both times. LBJ clearly out of gas in the second overtime which means the Lakers lose. Horrible loss.

I hate watching this team, especially without AD. The Lakers now have the same record as OKC.

50. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 13, 2023 at 08:21 AM (#6113058)

Just finished the book mentioned in #24, and one last factoid, after the Knicks knocked off Miami in the '99 playoffs, Pat Riley sent Van Gundy an honest-to-god telegram of congratulations.

51. asinwreck Posted: January 13, 2023 at 09:31 AM (#6113064)

Even though they lost, I was impressed by the AD-less Lakers. They, particularly Russ, did a fine job climbing out of a giant first-quarter hole. The defense on Luka at the end of the 4th wasn't good, but he wears down teams. It was a far less predictable outcome than Boston pulling away from the KD-less Nets in the first TNT game.

52. DCA Posted: January 13, 2023 at 10:19 AM (#6113068)

Fake GM'ing of the day. Would the Suns be willing to move Chris Paul? Feels like a panic move based on the last month or two, but I think I might.

To LAL: Paul, Crowder
To PHO: Westbrook, 2x FRP

Suns then have two options. Take the picks and they might not be any worse for the second half and playoffs with Russ. Or, to tie into this thread, they trade Westbrook, Saric, the Lakers picks, and some of their own picks to the Raptors for FVV and Siakam. Also Khem Birch to the Lakers because it make sense and the money works.

To LAL: Paul, Crowder, Birch
To PHO: FVV, Siakam
To TOR: Westbrook, Saric, 2x Lakers FRP, 3x Suns FRP

Lakers commit to 3 year window with CP/LBJ/AD.
New Suns ownership would have to pay up to keep FVV and Cam Johnson after the season, but then have a multiyear contender with FVV/Booker/Bridges/Johnson/Siakam/Ayton all in their primes.
Raptors clear cap space and add future value. I'd probably let Trent walk and build around Barnes/Anunoby.

53. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 13, 2023 at 10:59 AM (#6113073)

Meanwhile my Defector colleagues, some of them anyway, are out here having conversations about their favorite NBA conference finals series, consisting of nothing but one person naming a year and the other one going “Oh hell yeah, that was so sick.” Is that what it’s like to have a normal brain, or is that what it’s like to have a super-powered mutant one?
[...]
if you do not index your memories that way, then how are your memories organized for recall? Are they organized? Or are they like mine, and not organized in any way at all, but rather just sort of swirling around like water in a vortex in a toilet bowl? Does your mind-palace have the Dewey decimal system? Mine is like an F5 tornado just flattened the library. My gray matter is like somebody jammed an immersion blender into a bowl of Jello. The brain of me is torn up and full of holes.

54. PJ Martinez Posted: January 13, 2023 at 11:39 AM (#6113077)

Lakers commit to 3 year window with CP/LBJ/AD

James and Paul are among the greatest to ever play basketball, but I'm not sure that either of them has three really good years left. Maybe LeBron does. Paul has really fallen off this year — his numbers are still OK (I've only watched him once or twice), but, understandably, given that he's about to turn 38, he's having the worst season of his career. I do think Phoenix should trade him, but I don't think they'll get a return as good as both of LA's first-rounders.

55. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 13, 2023 at 12:02 PM (#6113083)

My memory is definitely pegged to sporting events. My high school graduation was the weekend the Bulls swept the Magic. I had two grandparents die in 2005, during the White Sox World Series run. My cousin's wedding happened during the 2012 SEC championship game when Georgia came up a few yards short against 'Bama. And so on.

56. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: January 13, 2023 at 12:04 PM (#6113084)

19/porters - sorry, didn't mean to imply that jontay is retired; i've been keeping an eye on how he does with the herd this year. his combo of shot blocking / shooting from distance / passing is definitely nba caliber, but i'm not sold on his defense (slow laterally), shooting/scoring inside the arc, or ability to stay on the floor... which matter too!

44/arno - thanks for mentioning that, paul. i enjoy flipping through that list every year.

48/raps - agree that the raps aren't hopeless, but their lack of self creation _and_ playmaking is a real problem. beyond needing a consolidation deal, i'm not sure their ceiling does much for me.

53/brains - not that you asked, steagles, but an unsorted heap, largely unlinked to time. also, i have aphantasia (lack of visualization /visual memory), which probably explains the sometimes weird player comps i come up with.

57. asinwreck Posted: January 13, 2023 at 12:06 PM (#6113085)

their favorite NBA conference finals series

Always and forever, 1991 (Eastern Conference).

58. DCA Posted: January 13, 2023 at 12:29 PM (#6113091)

54: I wouldn't want to sign up for the next 2.5 years of Chris Paul if I had better options. But I'm not sure the 2023-2025 Lakers have better options.

59. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: January 13, 2023 at 01:06 PM (#6113095)

if i ran the suns, i do that cp to lal deal so, SO fast. love paul but i think age caught up to him.

60. spivey Posted: January 13, 2023 at 01:17 PM (#6113098)

if i ran the suns, i do that cp to lal deal so, SO fast. love paul but i think age caught up to him.

I think the fact the Suns snap your hand off agreeing to that trade proves how unbalanced it is. The Lakers say no. I think the Lakers are better doing nothing. Not sure Paul moves the needle, and doing nothing should give them the ability to add a FVV guy through free agency (who honestly is likely just better than Paul right now), and keep their picks.

Toronto I'm not sure if they'd do it. It's always hard to tell how teams value their own guys. With what Dejounte Murray and Gobert returned, Toronto may feel like that's not enough? But they probably should do it and get to tanking. The 4 worst teams will be hard to catch, but the 5th worst record is very gettable right now for anyone who pivots into tank.

61. yo la tengo (the poor man's Ron Darling) Posted: January 13, 2023 at 01:26 PM (#6113099)

I watched the first half of Celtics Nets and the halftime show where Kenny was defending Ben Simmons (10 ASSISTS!!!) and Shaq and Barkley were dumping on Simmons (LOOK AT THE BASKET - SCORE!!!) I think both arguments are too simplistic but it does seem that Simmons needs to score at least a handful of points each game to try and keep defenses honest. My son texted me Ben's line for the game and it seems comical. Watching the team, at least in short bursts, with Ben Simmons on the floor and it looks like he makes quite a difference. +/- stats seem to think so as well. Such a weird, weird player to think about

62. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 13, 2023 at 03:36 PM (#6113112)

I watched the first half of Celtics Nets and the halftime show where Kenny was defending Ben Simmons (10 ASSISTS!!!) and Shaq and Barkley were dumping on Simmons (LOOK AT THE BASKET - SCORE!!!) I think both arguments are too simplistic but it does seem that Simmons needs to score at least a handful of points each game to try and keep defenses honest. My son texted me Ben's line for the game and it seems comical. Watching the team, at least in short bursts, with Ben Simmons on the floor and it looks like he makes quite a difference. +/- stats seem to think so as well. Such a weird, weird player to think about

your welcome.

63. PJ Martinez Posted: January 13, 2023 at 04:40 PM (#6113123)

Supposedly Indiana might be interested in John Collins. I'm not a big Collins fan, but I could see him working out OK there, and I could see taking a chance on a buy-low opportunity. The Pacers have enough cap space to absorb him, so salary-matching is not an issue. The question is, if you're Atlanta, what do you ask for? The Hawks are in a weird spot.

64. tshipman

Posted: January 14, 2023 at 06:42 PM (#6113219)

If you've been wondering what Kevin Arnovitz was up to.. he wrote a script which made the black list

I like Kevin Arnovitz, and execution is more important than premise, but ... this sounds awful.

Going for Two by Kevin Arnovitz: An openly gay NFL quarterback finds his meticulously-planned life upended on and off the field when he falls for a charming high school teacher during the most important season of his career.

***

Supposedly Indiana might be interested in John Collins. I'm not a big Collins fan, but I could see him working out OK there, and I could see taking a chance on a buy-low opportunity. The Pacers have enough cap space to absorb him, so salary-matching is not an issue. The question is, if you're Atlanta, what do you ask for? The Hawks are in a weird spot.

I think that John Collins/Julius Randle is the kind of player the Pacers should be looking to target. Currently, the Pacers are doing a great job of generating space on offense, but not really converting on that space at the rim (18th on FG% inside 3 ft, 13th on attempts) or the 3p line (11th and 6th respectively).

A player who can put pressure on the rim would create more of a virtuous cycle with their offense.

65. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 15, 2023 at 01:32 AM (#6113234)

I like Kevin Arnovitz, and execution is more important than premise, but ... this sounds awful.

*edit*

nevermind; apparently, carl nassib has been employed by the buccaneers this entire season.

66. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 15, 2023 at 01:11 PM (#6113254)

grep 'embiid' Does the NBA Have Any More Statue-Worthy Superstars?

67. Russlan is not Russian Posted: January 15, 2023 at 11:59 PM (#6113328)

Westbrook with a hilariously awful final possession. With the Lakers down by one, they play good enough defense to force a Miss shot and Westbrook rebounds. Instead of calling a time out or giving the ball to LeBron, he keeps the ball and somehow does not even get a shot off. I honestly don't think you can win with a guy like that on your team playing significant minutes. He makes so many bad decisions and the way he plays makes it very difficult to minimize them.

One could look at all of these tough losses and encouraging light by stating that they'd be better with their better players coming back from injury. But they're falling too far behind to even make the play in tournament

68. Russlan is not Russian Posted: January 16, 2023 at 12:24 AM (#6113329)

I do know that he had a good game against the 76ers but the mistakes he makes are just so awful.

69. PJ Martinez Posted: January 16, 2023 at 09:36 AM (#6113336)

I didn't see the game live, so this is just based on the replay, but it seems like Darvin Ham should have called a timeout once Russ fumbled his dribble — there were still 6-7 seconds left on the clock at that point — if not before, no? Sure, Russ should have called it himself, but it seems fair to expect the coach to have greater presence of mind in that situation than the guy who's fumbling with the ball.

Also, LeBron made no effort to come get the ball either in the backcourt or once they were on the other end — he ran to the opposite side of the court and watched the play from there. Maybe he was hoping Russ would drive and kick it out to him? But he didn't exactly scream for the ball.

Going before the defense gets set makes sense, and isolating against a center generally makes sense if you're an athletic guard. Maybe not if you're this version of Westbrook going up against Embiid, but in principle it's a reasonable decision. Obviously he didn't execute it well.

70. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 16, 2023 at 01:17 PM (#6113354)

I think both arguments are too simplistic but it does seem that Simmons needs to score at least a handful of points each game to try and keep defenses honest.

This isn't in any way groundbreaking, but my take on Simmons has long been that he needs to figure out something, anything he can do to be dangerous in the half court. Kenny's 10 ASSISTS breakdown was fascinating because every highlight they showed, and most or all of those 10 first half assists, were hit ahead passes that led to transition baskets. Reggie Miller spent much of the game, especially the second half, talking about Simmons' reticence to even pretend to be attacking the basket and how limiting that is for a team that also has Claxton on the court.

If Simmons doesn't ever learn to shoot, as sure seems the case at this point, should he figure out how to screen and dive and learn to live with shooting free throws from that? Bully mismatches on the block and pass if the defense doubles? I've always kinda been out on Simmons and it's because I'm not sure he's improved on any of his weaknesses over the entire course of his NBA career. The way he defends and runs the break, he's plenty smart enough spatially to figure something out for the halfcourt but he just hasn't expanded what he does in any way. I think the 4-on-5 criticism of his halfcourt game is completely fair, and despite +/- a serious liability. It's really frustrating, though, because he is a fascinating player in addition to how weird he is and it looks like we'll never get to see what a mature NBA Ben Simmons skillset could look like.

71. tshipman

Posted: January 16, 2023 at 04:08 PM (#6113373)

it looks like we'll never get to see what a mature NBA Ben Simmons skillset could look like.

Isn't it just 2019-2021 Ben Simmons?

The weird thing about Simmons is that he plays backwards. He's a weird player in that he plays like a small on defense and a big on offense. That's kind of inverted, and he's been pretty bad when asked to play like a big on defense or a small on offense.

He was a deserving all star in those years, so it can work, it's just weird.

72. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 16, 2023 at 04:50 PM (#6113376)

Isn't it just 2019-2021 Ben Simmons?

I guess, but it still felt like there was room for improvement then in what he was doing in the halfcourt, for all that it was miles better than his current unwillingness to even look at the hoop. It'll be a shame if he never gets past what seems like the mental block in his way these days.

73. spivey Posted: January 16, 2023 at 07:56 PM (#6113388)

I've been so busy not paying too much attention to the NBA because the Bucks have been so awful that I didn't realize the Phoenix Suns are below .500. West could have some crazy matchups in round 1. Sign me up for Phoenix/Denver, GSW/Memphis.

74. Russlan is not Russian Posted: January 17, 2023 at 01:31 AM (#6113428)

LeBron James played against Jabari Smith Jr last night. Jabari Smith Sr was on the Sacremento Kings roster when LeBron made his regular season debut. He also scored 48 points on the second game of a back to back and the Lakers needed it to beat one of the worst teams in the league.

75. aberg Posted: January 17, 2023 at 04:12 AM (#6113433)

If you've been wondering what Kevin Arnovitz was up to.. he wrote a script which made the black list

This is so cool. Good for him and I hope the movie turns into a success.

76. aberg Posted: January 17, 2023 at 04:21 AM (#6113434)

should he figure out how to screen and dive and learn to live with shooting free throws from that?

Handedness aside, he is an absolutely prime candidate for the granny shot. Although, given everything else we have learned about him, he might not be the trailblazer most willing or able to bust that stigma.

77. PJ Martinez Posted: January 17, 2023 at 10:48 AM (#6113449)

Both Marc Stein and Jake Fischer are reporting that Toronto is likely to trade Gary Trent, Jr., and may not trade anyone else.

78. DCA Posted: January 17, 2023 at 01:23 PM (#6113458)

If the Raptors want to run it back next year, Trent's the guy to move, because he's going to opt out and he's not worth the contract he's going to get. They must be pretty sure that FVV can be kept.

Counterpoint: the Raptors probably aren't going to get much in return, but maybe they can eat bad salary to get some additional draft capital.

79. spivey Posted: January 17, 2023 at 10:05 PM (#6113537)

77: I wonder how much of that is posturing to try to get more value. It's hard to tell this time of year who is doing what leaking, what writers are carrying water for their sources, etc.

But Toronto is a team full of good players who don't fit well together, Barnes regressed and looks more like a #2 or #3 than a franchise superstar, and a lot of their best players are about to sign the big contract that will cover part of their decline years. Imo, it's rarely wise to pay for those years unless you're keeping a contender together. I suppose the cap spike may be another reason. But, trying to pull a quick 1-2 year tank would be very tempting to me.

80. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: January 17, 2023 at 11:21 PM (#6113542)

trade machine: who says 'no'?

or, alternatively.

81. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 18, 2023 at 09:18 AM (#6113552)

Probably the right move for the Raptors, but Trent has been the only guy on the team who can shoot this year. FVV has been okay from 3 in his career, but he's 33.4% on 3s and under 40% from the field this season.

82. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: January 18, 2023 at 01:46 PM (#6113584)

So, I'm listening to a Wovles podcast, and there's a lot of tsuris about trading Russell for Lowry, because of Lowry's money next season, and I think, well, yeah, that's gonna be wasted money, but it also kicks the decision about the salary slot down the road a season? I don't know, it doesn't seem like Lowry next year is categorically worse than no-one for that money? Is that crazy? Like, assume for the sake of argument that Russell is a better player, but there's some point where the money is truly gone and I don't see Lowry as that, necessarily?

83. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 18, 2023 at 02:21 PM (#6113589)

Heat Culture + D'Angelo Russell = ????

84. jmurph Posted: January 18, 2023 at 02:37 PM (#6113590)

Heat Culture + D'Angelo Russell = ????

Immediate overachievement followed by a really regrettable contract extension that they try to trade a year later?

85. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 18, 2023 at 02:41 PM (#6113591)

Re-visiting the preseason thread.

602. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: October 18, 2022 at 01:28 PM (#6101426)
I'm a Debbie Downer this year (or maybe it's a product of the league being flat at the top), but I see downside for nearly every team projected near the top - see post 512. So here's some optimistic predictions:

*Cleveland gels and gets a top-4 seed

*Pacers are not the worst team in the East and Mathurin is top-2 in ROY voting

*Bam Adebayo makes an all-NBA team (probably third-team C)

*Memphis has the best home record in the NBA (they were third last year behind the Suns and Warriors)

Cleveland's tied for #4 right now, still in play.

I'm feeling good about Mathurin.

Bam might do it, but he's not noticeably better anywhere. If Sabonis counts as a Center, he probably gets it as of today.

Memphis is 19-3, fighting with Denver 20-3 and Boston 19-5. Still possible.

86. aberg Posted: January 19, 2023 at 09:33 AM (#6113638)

that's gonna be wasted money, but it also kicks the decision about the salary slot down the road a season?

The issue with kicking the money down the road is that the money coming off the books would then coincide with Ant's max deal coming onto the cap. If they let DLo walk, they would have something like $21m in cap space this summer. If they acquire Lowry in a trade, they would be over the cap in the summer and could only spend the $11m MLE. Additionally, Lowry + MLE also pushes you closer to/into the tax than spending ~$21m on a free agent (or trading for someone into that space). Hard to imagine spending into the tax for this disgusting team. I haven't looked into who could fit into that $ slot, presumably as PG, so hard to say whether it would be worth it.

87. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: January 19, 2023 at 10:57 AM (#6113645)

Ahhh see I thought that they would be over the cap this offseason. That changes a lot, yes.

88. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: January 19, 2023 at 12:31 PM (#6113651)

I quite enjoyed this SI feature from Chris Ballard that dropped yesterday: the title is a touch clickbaity, but bringing an actual post-up big man with him to work with Hakeem so he could observe the real deal tutoring was a brilliant decision.

89. DCA Posted: January 19, 2023 at 12:36 PM (#6113653)

Tying together 63 and 77 ... might the Hawks want Trent? They've given 1000 pretty terrible minutes to Holidays and another 1000 to Bogdan (bad this year), Forrest, Krejci, and Culver so there is definitely room in the rotation. And if they move Collins, they could fit Trent's salary into that slot.

Maybe something like

IND: Collins
ATL: Trent, Jalen Smith
TOR: 2024 SAC 1st, Tyrese Martin

90. DCA Posted: January 19, 2023 at 12:57 PM (#6113656)

The article in 88 is really good. I thought the post game was boring when it was dominant, but I love it now that it's uncommon.

91. smileyy Posted: January 19, 2023 at 02:14 PM (#6113664)

I thought the post game was boring when it was dominant

I dunno, I kind of miss the era of the PG backing down his defender for 10 seconds before dumping it into the post, and watching that player back down for 10 seconds. Either that, or when the double comes, passing the ball for a not-3-pointer.

/s

92. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: January 19, 2023 at 02:19 PM (#6113665)

Hakeem was one of my favourite players of all time.

93. spivey Posted: January 19, 2023 at 09:26 PM (#6113717)

Happy to see Divincenzo is playing well. Hope he gets the payday he deserves next year.

94. spivey Posted: January 19, 2023 at 09:49 PM (#6113718)

Al Horford wasting 2 years in Philadelphia and Oklahoma City was definitely interesting.

95. tshipman

Posted: January 19, 2023 at 10:35 PM (#6113719)

Is it a waste if the checks always cleared on time?

96. aberg Posted: January 20, 2023 at 08:41 AM (#6113726)

Is it a waste if the checks always cleared on time?

Is it possible for a job that pays you to also be a waste of time? Oh hell yes.

97. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: January 20, 2023 at 12:27 PM (#6113747)

To be fair, only the Philly stop was a waste: in OKC, he got to rest up, get healthy, and work on his three-point stroke.

98. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 20, 2023 at 01:41 PM (#6113756)

I will forever be confused why Philly signed Horford. He has too slow a release to be the spot-up shooter they tried to play him as, and because of that he and Embiid couldn't really share the court. It really seems like the signed him because he was such a good Embiid and Giannis stopper without putting thought into fit.

99. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 20, 2023 at 02:28 PM (#6113763)

Really interesting and honest article in The Athletic about Justice Winslow's mental health struggles. Some interesting context to the path he's taken over his NBA career.

100. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 20, 2023 at 04:00 PM (#6113781)

Current Western conference win projections per 538

57 Grizzlies
56 Nuggets
47 Pelicans
44 Mavericks
43 Kings
43 Jazz

43 Suns
42 Warriors
40 Timberwolves
39 Clippers

39 Blazers
38 Thunder
37 Lakers
25 Spurs
18 Rockets

That mass from 4-13 is wild.

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