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Monday, January 09, 2023

2023 NBA Regular Season Thread

I estimate that this new thread should have been posted 10-12 days ago, at least.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 09, 2023 at 11:55 AM | 1372 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, future first round picks, nba, off-topic

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   1001. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 01, 2023 at 08:20 PM (#6119212)
flip
   1002. Dolf Lucky Posted: March 01, 2023 at 09:35 PM (#6119224)
Game 9 (video link: Here)

Thunder (NJ) 1-0 @ Spurs (Stiggles) 1-0

Starting Lineups:

Thunder


Stephen Curry
Reggie Miller
George Gervin
Kevin McHale
Dwight Howard

Spurs

Kyrie Irving
Drazen Petrovic
Kawhi Leonard
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Yao Ming

Synopsis:

I usually write out a high level game flow description in this space, but let’s get meta. Roster sizes in 2K are 13 players deep, but our Corona draft only went ten rounds. To account for the size discrepancy, I inserted into roster spots 11 through 13 low rated generic players that are available in the game. Guys with last names of Smith and Brown, equipped with Chuck Taylors and ratings in the 60s. Ensuring that none of these players were in the coaches’ rotations, I assumed that we wouldn’t see an appearance from the stock background actors. But what if? What if a team had a big lead and a coach that liked to tweak the norms? What if the Spurs had a 28 point lead at the start of the fourth quarter and a Coach Popovich that wanted to send a message? All three of the Spurs’ scrubs got two minutes of playing time to start the final quarter. One of them scored! How did the game go? The Spurs got to the paint at will, the Thunder didn’t shoot well, and the game was not as close as the final score would indicate. Final score: Spurs 123 (2-0), Thunder 107 (1-1).

Key stat:

The Spurs shot 44% from deep (8-18), led by Drazen Petrovic (3-5), while the Thunder shot 21% (7-33).

Nail in the coffin:

Steph Curry ate some tainted breakfast tacos earlier in the day. He missed nine of his 12 shots from range.

Player of the game:

Giannis went 19/14/7 on 8-10 shooting.

Strong in defeat:

Dwight Howard totaled 26 points (with an impressive six dunks) and 12 rebounds.

On the other hand:

Yao Ming is not a central part of the Spurs’s offense, but he is an excellent complement to the guards and wings. He had ten points on seven shots and also added 7 boards and 5 blocks.

Water through a sieve:

A sports computer game always needs to consider the balance between creating as accurate a simulation as possible with arcade-style playability. One of the choices that seems to be apparent with 2K is that the fouling dial must have been intentionally lowered. It’s a decision that makes sense, but also one that creates an opportunity for certain performances to stand out. Specifically, Kyrie got to the line ten times, which is easily a high water mark for this replay tournament so far. Irving sank all ten, bringing his point total to 33. One can only imagine how much smack he was talking to Westbrook, who took the brunt of Kyrie’s wrath.

Poster collector:

Russell Westbrook now has a two game posterizing streak. He dunked hard on Brent Barry in the first quarter, then stood over him and flexed. Good for Russell.

Coming next is the Bulls (Willard) and the Lakers (Hombre). Both teams are 0-1, likely available tomorrow…
   1003. Howie Menckel Posted: March 01, 2023 at 09:45 PM (#6119225)
Dolf, mostly a lurker these days, but want to add to the chorus of praise for these writeups.

if you haven't done any writing professionally - well, you have talent. concise, and not predictabl as if you are locked into a rigid format. and yet, not all-over-the-place so there's no consistency at all.

and Drazen references - damn, 30 years ago this June
:(
   1004. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 01, 2023 at 09:50 PM (#6119227)
Final score: Spurs 123 (2-0), Thunder 107 (1-1).
wtf is this? if this defense does not improve, heads will roll.
Giannis went 19/14/7 on 8-10 shooting.
hot take:

giannis is the early frontrunner for league MVP.
   1005. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 01, 2023 at 09:55 PM (#6119228)
and Drazen references - damn, 30 years ago this June
they actually say his name in the game, which, i think goes to show how much respect he still gets from people who know.
All three of the Spurs’ scrubs got two minutes of playing time to start the final quarter
fun fact:
i spent 30 seconds counting names on my fingers because i didn't know who those ####### guys were.
   1006. Dolf Lucky Posted: March 01, 2023 at 10:14 PM (#6119233)
Wow, thanks Howie. That’s really kind of you to say. I’ve done some hobby writing but nothing significant.
   1007. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 01, 2023 at 10:22 PM (#6119236)
A sports computer game always needs to consider the balance between creating as accurate a simulation as possible with arcade-style playability. One of the choices that seems to be apparent with 2K is that the fouling dial must have been intentionally lowered. It’s a decision that makes sense, but also one that creates an opportunity for certain performances to stand out. Specifically, Kyrie got to the line ten times, which is easily a high water mark for this replay tournament so far. Irving sank all ten, bringing his point total to 33. One can only imagine how much smack he was talking to Westbrook, who took the brunt of Kyrie’s wrath.

one of the interesting things i'm seeing is the offensive setup that my team is using. it seems like petrovic was being used as the primary initiator, and kyrie is getting a lot of looks out of the high post.

weird. but effective. for now, at least.
   1008. Howie Menckel Posted: March 01, 2023 at 11:00 PM (#6119239)
Wow, thanks Howie. That’s really kind of you to say. I’ve done some hobby writing but nothing significant.

it's deserved. the 'concise' element is the least-instinctive part, I think, for anyone not in the business (as I just cut off the second half of my post. heh).
your audience here understandably loves your recaps and - every comedian/writer knows this, of course - always leave them wanting more, not less.
have not watched the 'video clips' - but that also shows a modern versatility and grasp of the audience desires.

I doubt this will show up in the simulation games, but Chuck Daly got Drazen to buy into significant defensive improvement in what sadly was his final season. he also was a strong ballhandler for a "2 guard" and could lure double-teams and exploit that. his career arc was very much on the rise.
   1009. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 01, 2023 at 11:13 PM (#6119240)
The other thing I've noticed about these games from the realism vs fun perspective is that there are almost no unforced turnovers. No traveling, guys fumbling the ball out of bounds, throwing wild passes, losing the ball in traffic, etc..
   1010. Hombre Brotani Posted: March 02, 2023 at 12:44 AM (#6119247)
giannis is the early frontrunner for league MVP.
Yep. In both games that the Spurs have played, they got outscored when Giannis was off the floor, and utterly dominated when he was on.
   1011. Hombre Brotani Posted: March 02, 2023 at 04:40 AM (#6119253)
   1012. jmurph Posted: March 02, 2023 at 07:49 AM (#6119258)
So the Bucks are simply never going to lose again.
   1013. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 02, 2023 at 09:53 AM (#6119265)
Kyrie abused OKC guards all game. This is just a taste.

that's what my team is built to do, to be fair. i prioritized defense, versatility and athleticism everywhere else, but at PG, i picked the best 1v1 gunners i could find. i wanted PGs with unlimited range and unlimited usage potential, and between kyrie and dame, i think i nailed it.

i know my roster construction was meme'd on (especially after i picked yao), but this was my design from the start. (although, i would have taken ben simmons in the 5th round, if he was available. that would have been much worse for the team, but much funnier for me.)
i have a few tricks up my sleeve as this goes on. it's gonna get weird. but fun. maybe.
round 3: '92 rodman
round 4: '16 draymond
round 5: '03 matrix
round 6: '11 odom
round 7: '12 iguodala
round 8: '11 tyson
round 9: '07 metta
round 10: '06 hibachi



139. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 10, 2020 at 03:35 PM (#5938369)
I didn't really expect Giannis to still be around by my second pick (#20), but he was my dream center.
140. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: April 10, 2020 at 03:49 PM (#5938378)
interestingly, i project giannis to be my starting SG.
141. tshipman Posted: April 10, 2020 at 03:50 PM (#5938380)
Yes, but you are insane.
142. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: April 10, 2020 at 03:52 PM (#5938381)
harsh, but fair.
163. tshipman Posted: April 10, 2020 at 06:11 PM (#5938449)
In Stiggles' games, no one gets to cross half-court.
   1014. jmurph Posted: March 02, 2023 at 11:57 AM (#6119274)
Really interesting answer from Steve Clifford about the evolution of offense/defense. Including this: "The offenses have become simpler... we just play better offensive players."
   1015. Hombre Brotani Posted: March 02, 2023 at 01:25 PM (#6119281)
Yuck. I cannot watch my 2K games. This team plays nothing like I had envisioned, with Chris Paul trying to create only for himself while everyone else stands around, and Rick Barry never gets off the bench.
   1016. Dolf Lucky Posted: March 02, 2023 at 01:49 PM (#6119288)
Yeah, you grabbed the short stick in terms of actual-to-video translation. I would have pegged your team as top 5 heading in, but this version isn’t pretty.
   1017. Dolf Lucky Posted: March 02, 2023 at 03:21 PM (#6119302)
Game 10 (video link: Here)

Bulls (Willard) 0-1 @ Lakers (Hombre) 0-1

Starting Lineups:

Bulls


Gary Payton
Michael Jordan
Vince Carter
Dirk Nowitzki
Patrick Ewing

Lakers

Chris Paul
Brandon Roy
Clyde Drexler
Pau Gasol
Wilt Chamberlain

Synopsis:

Somewhere along the way, I made an executive decision: I would change the playing style setting for teams that have lost and then let the CPU reset the lineups. This is in line with how I set up the league at the beginning, I’m just switching from one recommended playing style to another. The Bulls, for example, were set to a “Pace & Space” setting in their first game, and I bumped them to a “Balanced” setting in this game. Why do this? One, a person only gets so many chances to be supreme ruler of the universe. Two, I wanted to guard against teams being unfairly hurt by the CPU suggesting a playbook that didn’t work out. Three, I liked the idea of additional diversity in the plays and highlights we get to see. All that to say that this game was another blowout. The unwanted backups made appearances again. In this game we learned that the Lakers have an end of the bench guard named Scrubb and also that I apparently put Chocolate Thunder himself on the tail end of the Bulls bench. We also learned that Vince Carter can do no wrong. Final score: Bulls 112 (1-1), Lakers 87 (0-2).

Key stat:

The Bulls shot 12-31 from outside the arc, led by Dirk (6-14) and Vince (3-5), while the Lakers shot just 5-32. Chris Paul, in particular, was egregiously bad from distance.

Nail in the coffin:

This game was over when the Lakers’ starters told Coach Ham that they were unable to go for 48 minutes. The team’s second unit was destroyed: Barkley (-34), Embiid (-29), Barry (-28), and Lowry (-27) got run out of the gym.

Player of the game:

Vince Carter had 29 points on 15 shots.

Strong in defeat:

Wilt Chamberlain had 20 points and 20 rebounds. His inside game was just about the only effective offense the Lakers had while the game was still in doubt.

The U wing:

I had a high school classmate (early to mid 90s), who used to claim that the Hall of Fame would one day build a brand new wing just to pay appropriate homage to Patrick Ewing and that they would call it the U Wing. Get it? Anyway, Patrick had a solid enough game (12 points, 18 rebounds) but that kid didn’t know what he was talking about.

Glove love:

Gary Payton’s addition to the lineup not only led to a better flowing offense for the Bulls, but it creates a pretty scary defensive backcourt when paired with MJ. A frustrated Chris Paul kept chucking shots and was incredulous that they weren’t going in. Payton ended with 8 points and 13 assists.

The Milton Berle effect:

The top two draft picks were, of course, LeBron and Jordan, and we now have examples of both their teams winning games without a ton of output from the megastars. Jordan probably got up to 15 points or so, but a lot of that came late in garbage time. Is he saving himself for a later explosion? Or is he confused by having offensive talent around him?

Coming next is the debut of the Suns (Obscura) against the 1-0 Bucks (DCA). Should be up tomorrow…
   1018. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: March 02, 2023 at 06:00 PM (#6119337)
Even though the game was not nearly as close as the final score may indicate, last night's Celtics/Cavaliers game was some of the highest-level basketball I've seen all season. The Cavs looked the part of a true 5 SRS team on a night when their best player was hitting tough shots all game, and those kinds of nights are usually good for a win against basically anyone; still didn't matter, because the Celtics, top-to-bottom, executed at a championship level on both ends. It was the first game all season the Celtics matched last season's face-melting standard of defensive intensity; Donovan Mitchell still put up 44, just pure guts and ridiculous shot-making. Tatum was good for 41/11/8 on better than 75% true shooting, controlling the whole floor and making it look easy, despite facing a slew of different looks from an excellent defensive team. The passing. The passing!

I do not mourn the passing of February basketball.
   1019. spivey Posted: March 02, 2023 at 06:32 PM (#6119339)
1018: I agree. There were moments I saw Boston's defense and really wondered/worried about how Milwaukee would handle it. They make you uncomfortable. If we get that matchup in the conference finals, I'll be a happy man. Speaking of ridiculous shot making, Tatum was making all sorts of tough off the dribble 3s.

I think the conference semifinals and finals in the East could be pretty special this year.
   1020. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 02, 2023 at 11:11 PM (#6119357)
giannis
skin bayless
hasan minhaj


one of these things is not like the other.
   1021. Russlan is not Russian Posted: March 03, 2023 at 01:21 AM (#6119364)
Clippers are now 0-4 since Westbrook joined the team.
   1022. tshipman Posted: March 03, 2023 at 01:40 AM (#6119365)
It's all you can eat at the hater buffet!

3/12 from the field!
4 turnovers!
28 minutes for Westbrook compared to 24 for Mann or 12 for Bones.

Or just this play.
   1023. Hombre Brotani Posted: March 03, 2023 at 05:36 AM (#6119372)
Per r/LAClippers, Russell Westbrook is on a 14-game losing streak as a starter.
   1024. spivey Posted: March 03, 2023 at 08:40 AM (#6119373)
I like the Dunker Spot guys, but they've been surprisingly in favor of the Westbrook deal. I think there's too much thought of "it can't hurt", when, I think it clearly can - this is a team still fighting for a playoff spot. And Lue is a good coach, but it gives the opportunity to make the wrong decision. I think it's fair to say they could use more paint touches, which Westbrook is still elite at - the problem is you have to give him the ball to do that, which is not elite.

In related news, the best deal Milwaukee made at the deadline wasn't adding Crowder, it was getting rid of George Hill. Any minute that could go to George Hill should have just been going to Jevon Carter instead.
   1025. Dolf Lucky Posted: March 03, 2023 at 12:32 PM (#6119388)
Game 11 (video link: Here)

Suns (Obscura) 0-0 @ Bucks (DCA) 1-0

Starting Lineups:

Suns


Tim Hardaway
Ray Allen
Billy Cunningham
Tim Duncan
Bill Russell

Bucks

John Stockton
Dwyane Wade
Julius Erving
George Mikan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Synopsis:

In a back and forth first quarter highlighted by good defense and/or poor shooting, the Suns took the early advantage. It was quickly evident that scoring inside was basically not an option for the Suns, so they turned to Ray Allen, who hit two 3-balls en route to eight first quarter points. Amar’e Stoudamire provided a few more buckets off the bench to give the Suns a 27-24 lead. On the other side, Kareem had three blocks in Q1 alone. The second quarter belonged to Dr. J, as he relentlessly attacked the rim, ending with 17 points at the half. That, plus two more blocks from Kareem, slingshotted the Bucks in front, 54-49 at the half. The rest of the game was two tales in tension. The Bucks could drive the lane readily but couldn’t shoot from outside. The Suns had some decent 3-point shooting but were nearly lost inside. An eight point Bucks lead after three evaporated as Luka Doncic imposed his will in the fourth. The game was tied with just a couple minutes remaining but the Bucks went back to basics. Get. To. The. Hoop. Dwyane Wade took over for the Bucks down the stretch as no one could effectively guard him and the shots stopped falling for the Suns. Final score: Bucks 107 (2-0), Suns (0-1).

Key stat:

The Bucks scored an astounding 70 points from inside the paint, compared to just 44 for the Suns.

Nail in the coffin:

With a four point lead and about a minute left in the game, D-Wade blew by his man for a layup. The Suns quickly hoisted a three in the return possession, it clanked, and it was game over.

Player of the game:

In one of the emptiest box scores you’ll ever see, Dwyane Wade put up a 34/1/2 line. He scored all those points despite going 0-9 from deep. He hit 67% of his two point shots, however.

Strong in defeat:

The Suns team ambled into the visitors locker room from the team bus. There was a nervous energy in the room as the team anticipated their first game of the tournament. These veteran players, rich with experience and accomplishments, still had that Christmas morning feeling as they saw their freshly pressed jerseys hanging in their lockers. Each player had his own routine, mostly dressing and mentally preparing in meditative silence. In front of the captain’s locker, however, something was off. He sat on his stool, nearly naked, holding his jersey in hand but making no movement. Even his breathing slowed as he approached a catatonic trance. The other players began to take notice and a murmur circled the air. There was an anxious urgency at play; each man knew that the issue needed attention; no man wanted to be the one to break the ice. Most of the guys figured Tim or Ray would handle it. They both seemed older than their teammates for some reason and were daily leaders in practice. But neither felt comfortable as a vocal leader and they both had so much respect for the captain. Ray, in particular, knew it was the right thing to do, so why had his throat gotten so damn dry? Billy finally took charge. He was the only one who had previously played against the captain and he always seemed to have the right words, you know?

He took a seat next to Bill. “Hey man, what’s up?”

“I’m just noticing on these jerseys. There’s a patch.”

“Yeah, I know, Bill.”

“It’s a number six.”

“Look, Bill. This is awkward and the guys here have your back no matter what.”

Bill sat silent, so Billy continued.

“It’s a tribute to your number, Bill. You passed away last summer.”

“Huh?”

“Yeah, I can’t really explain it. But you still get to play somehow.”

Silence. Then one of the assistant coaches entered.

“OK guys. Warm-ups and shoot-around in ten.”

Bill Russell, once over the initial existential shock, suited up and started the game, taking the opening tip against Kareem. But his game seemed off in the first half. Had some things on his mind, man. He finished the game at 7/11/3, with a couple of blocks.

Glass men:

George Mikan (16), Kareem (12), and Joakim Noah (11) all had double digit rebounds as part of the overall near-rim dominance from the Bucks.

Strategic targeting:

For the Bucks, the second source of scoring beyond Wade was Dr. J, who finished with 23 points, including going 7-7 from the free throw line. The common denominator between both Wade’s and Erving’s outbursts was poor perimeter defense. Ray Allen was the most frequent target; he not only picked up five fouls, but he was also well out of frame on several of Wade’s jump shots. Other wing defenders, specifically Joe Dumars and Luka Doncic, appeared to give too little resistance. And while rim protection should be a strength for the Suns, at some point a rickety fence gives way to a tidal wave.

Not so FUNdamental:

Bill Russell wasn’t the only big man to struggle for identity in this game. Tim Duncan managed just nine points on 12 shots, as he was thoroughly frustrated on the post. Perhaps the biggest slap in the face came when he did a series of low block pivot moves until he felt confident he had the space for an open shot. Instead, Kareem blocked the shot so hard off the glass that it caromed to the foul line.

The next game up is a matchup of 0-1 teams, the Hawks (Dolf Lucky) and Blazers (tshipman). However, next week is spring break, so I don’t anticipate many games getting run, if any. If I can’t get a game in, I’ll pick it back up on the 13th…
   1026. Willard Baseball Posted: March 03, 2023 at 02:08 PM (#6119394)
Dolf, you are the absolute man.

And great job on adjusting play books/PT. I wondered why I. Thomas played so much and got torched by Steph in game one, when I could build around a backcourt of GP/MJ. These writeups and videos are very fun. I am in the middle of baseball season and still logging in here each day to get caught up, and I usually avoid the board here in early spring.
   1027. tshipman Posted: March 03, 2023 at 05:03 PM (#6119410)
The more things change:

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
ESPN Sources: Orlando Magic F Jonathan Isaac underwent season-ending surgery today to repair a torn left adductor muscle. Brutal setback for Isaac, 25, who played only 11 games this season after missing two years with a torn ACL. An MRI revealed the adductor injury on Wednesday.


You think Isaac gets a free sandwich or something when he visits the MRI? Like a punch card situation?
   1028. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 03, 2023 at 05:37 PM (#6119413)
i talk alot of #### about youtube and its algorithm, but sometimes it does send little nuggets of joy to my cockles.

ladies and gentlemen, i present to you:

stephen a smith responds to the lakers trading kwame brown for pau gasol.
   1029. Hombre Brotani Posted: March 03, 2023 at 06:02 PM (#6119416)
   1030. Dolf Lucky Posted: March 03, 2023 at 06:12 PM (#6119417)
Mikan throwing an alley-oop is one of the five best highlights so far.
   1031. Hombre Brotani Posted: March 03, 2023 at 06:14 PM (#6119418)
In one of the emptiest box scores you’ll ever see, Dwyane Wade put up a 34/1/2 line. He scored all those points despite going 0-9 from deep. He hit 67% of his two point shots, however.
I don't think this is an empty line. The Bucks piled up paint points because Wade and Erving were pouring them in. Most teams have crazy dominant big men, so post points are tough to find. The teams that are having the most success are the ones with great one-on-one creator penetrating into the lane, forcing defensive bigs to rotate, forcing bad switches, missed assignments, etc. It's a very 00s version of basketball.
   1032. Dolf Lucky Posted: March 03, 2023 at 06:52 PM (#6119424)
I don't think this is an empty line. The Bucks piled up paint points because Wade and Erving were pouring them in. Most teams have crazy dominant big men, so post points are tough to find. The teams that are having the most success are the ones with great one-on-one creator penetrating into the lane, forcing defensive bigs to rotate, forcing bad switches, missed assignments, etc. It's a very 00s version of basketball.


It might be the wrong term, but I was trying to imply that Wade didn’t do anything but score. It was still hella effective, obviously.

These replays have made me think about what an expected score would be if these games happened for real. If you had these all-star plus rosters, with max effort on both sides of the ball, do teams score more than average, less than average, or about the same?

My gut says they’d score more and that the game is over correcting on defense, but who knows?
   1033. tshipman Posted: March 03, 2023 at 07:14 PM (#6119428)
I think it's pretty clearly more. In a standard NBA game, a lot of shots are taken by mediocre players.

Sacramento, quite famously, is currently the number one offense of all time at a 119 ORTG.


On Sacramento, Keegan Murray, Malik Monk and Davion Mitchell combine to take about 28% of the FGA while being roughly average from a TS%. Their offensive engines are Fox and Sabonis, good but sub-all star players. This team thrives by not having any terrible contributors weighing them down.

If you look at the drafts, there are no players even as talented as Fox or Sabonis. Every player is basically significantly better. I think there's no way to avoid the offensive environment being significantly higher.
   1034. spivey Posted: March 03, 2023 at 09:10 PM (#6119453)
I hate Marcus Smart. Dude is such a flopper. Which annoys me because he's also one of the most physical players in the league, and I otherwise would like his game a lot.

Boston was up 29 in the 2nd quarter vs. Brooklyn. We are 4 minutes into the 3rd and they're up 1. I still have every expectation they'll win, but they just completely turned off for a bit there.
   1035. spivey Posted: March 03, 2023 at 09:11 PM (#6119454)
1033: Would depend on how the game is being reffed too. But regular season 2023 basketball, I agree.
   1036. spivey Posted: March 03, 2023 at 09:19 PM (#6119455)
Boston out here getting outworked by a team full of guys playing for their next team.
   1037. spivey Posted: March 03, 2023 at 09:24 PM (#6119456)
While I'm here, I love the Knicks team. Ok, I don't love Randle or Barrett, but they're ok, and I love basically everyone else. I think they're going to be a pain in the ass for whomever lands in the 4-5 matchup with them.
   1038. spivey Posted: March 03, 2023 at 09:52 PM (#6119457)
Grant Williams minutes are interesting right now. Like 17 minutes/game in the last 4 he's played, and a 5th that was a DNP-CD.
   1039. Hombre Brotani Posted: March 03, 2023 at 09:56 PM (#6119458)
While I'm here, I love the Knicks team. Ok, I don't love Randle or Barrett, but they're ok, and I love basically everyone else.
My guy's putting up 25 and 10, and taking eight 3s a game at 35%. Love him. He deserves your love. Love him.
   1040. spivey Posted: March 03, 2023 at 10:23 PM (#6119462)
I didn't realize it, but I see Jokic has creeped over triple-double averages now. Pretty nifty.
   1041. Mike A Posted: March 03, 2023 at 10:36 PM (#6119463)
The Knicks are much, much better than I expected.

Funny stat from the Hawks game tonight: Over the past six games, Saddiq Bey has played for four different coaches.
   1042. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 03, 2023 at 11:04 PM (#6119466)
These replays have made me think about what an expected score would be if these games happened for real. If you had these all-star plus rosters, with max effort on both sides of the ball, do teams score more than average, less than average, or about the same?

My gut says they’d score more and that the game is over correcting on defense, but who knows?
I think it's pretty clearly more. In a standard NBA game, a lot of shots are taken by mediocre players.
shotmaking would be better, but so would rim protection, 1v1 defense, help defense, and defensive rebounding.
The teams that are having the most success are the ones with great one-on-one creator penetrating into the lane, forcing defensive bigs to rotate, forcing bad switches, missed assignments, etc. It's a very 00s version of basketball.

if you think about it, the 00s occupied the time between the illegal defense era of the 90s (and before, when post-centric offenses thrived), and the pace and space era in the 2010s.

our league has a lot of players from the former era, and they're playing with a ruleset from the latter era, so it makes sense that the style often winds up resembling that in-between era of iverson/melo/kobe.
   1043. tshipman Posted: March 03, 2023 at 11:38 PM (#6119471)
shotmaking would be better, but so would rim protection, 1v1 defense, help defense, and defensive rebounding.


Again, I think the example of 2023 Sacramento is instructive here.

Sacramento is just 19th in getting to the rim. They shoot a barely above average percentage from 3. They just take open shots at the rim and convert from floater range. They create those shots by moving the ball and making quick cuts. They don't have any outrageous 1-1 players. They're 23rd in offensive rebounding. They just ... generate a ton of space and take open shots.
   1044. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 04, 2023 at 10:26 AM (#6119481)
Again, I think the example of 2023 Sacramento is instructive here.


If we are going to use them as a proxy, then we can also see how they do against the better teams.

League average scoring is 114.3 PPG. Sacramento is scoring 120.9 PPG.

What about when Sacramento plays the other top 6 teams (other than themselves): BOS, MIL, PHI, DEN, MEM? Those teams all have different strengths and weaknesses, but together they have performed the best this season. Against those 5 teams, Sacramento is scoring 114.4 PPG.

Small sample size (as with everything). But in this case, playing a top opponent reduces their scoring to that of an average NBA team -- which is good, in context, but suggests good defenses to some extent counterbalance good offenses.
   1045. spivey Posted: March 04, 2023 at 12:16 PM (#6119490)
It's going to be interesting to see how the NBA handles Ja Morant. I can't remember a superstar who has been clowning about like this in the Silver/LeBron era.

Edit: That's stupid, I guess. There's Kyrie. Though this is a bit different of a situation.
   1046. Der-K's enjoying the new boygenius album. Posted: March 04, 2023 at 02:17 PM (#6119498)
Out at least 2 games, it seems
Also Clarke tore his Achilles and is out for the year.
   1047. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 04, 2023 at 02:25 PM (#6119500)
Have you forgotten the nightclub incident with budding superstar Jahlil Okafor???
   1048. spivey Posted: March 04, 2023 at 02:48 PM (#6119505)
Clarke is one of my favorite players in the NBA. Think that’s a really big loss for them in terms of versatility and just bodies in the playoff games where JJJ is in foul trouble.
   1049. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 04, 2023 at 07:35 PM (#6119518)
Have you forgotten the nightclub incident with budding superstar Jahlil Okafor???

if he ever showed that much fire and fury in an NBA game, he might still be playing in NBA games.
   1050. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 04, 2023 at 08:21 PM (#6119520)
It's going to be interesting to see how the NBA handles Ja Morant. I can't remember a superstar who has been clowning about like this in the Silver/LeBron era.

Edit: That's stupid, I guess. There's Kyrie. Though this is a bit different of a situation.
nikola jokic attempted to paralyze marcus morris, and that was only worth a 2 game suspension, iirc.
   1051. jmurph Posted: March 04, 2023 at 08:53 PM (#6119521)
Nike statement on Ja Morant: “We appreciate Ja’s accountability and that he is taking the time to get the help he needs. We support his prioritization of his well-being.”

Man, #### absolutely everyone involved in the cynical packaging of this #### in the statements released today.
   1052. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: March 04, 2023 at 09:05 PM (#6119522)
This Spurs/Rockets game is morbidly entertaining.
   1053. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 04, 2023 at 11:50 PM (#6119530)
1012. jmurph Posted: March 02, 2023 at 07:49 AM (#6119258)
So the Bucks are simply never going to lose again.
this aged like cody zeller.
   1054. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: March 05, 2023 at 08:19 AM (#6119534)
Wovles somehow not looking like dogshit.
   1055. sardonic Posted: March 05, 2023 at 01:53 PM (#6119558)
Immovable force vs unstoppable object: Steph return vs. 1230pm tipoff in LA after a Saturday night that is also Draymond's birthday.
   1056. tshipman Posted: March 05, 2023 at 03:16 PM (#6119566)
It's going to be interesting to see how the NBA handles Ja Morant. I can't remember a superstar who has been clowning about like this in the Silver/LeBron era.

Man, #### absolutely everyone involved in the cynical packaging of this #### in the statements released today.



The thing is that it is clowning, it's not real. Ja is faking all of this, which makes it even more pathetic. Anyone who is actually from the hood knows that you don't hold the guns when you have the money.
   1057. spivey Posted: March 05, 2023 at 07:38 PM (#6119585)
Caitlin Clark is balling out of her god damn mind right now.
   1058. smileyy Posted: March 05, 2023 at 08:22 PM (#6119590)
WNBA teams should Crash for Caitlin
   1059. jmurph Posted: March 05, 2023 at 09:57 PM (#6119595)
The Celtics are so stale and low energy right now. Quickley and Randle looking like inner circle Hall of Famers against them.
   1060. Hombre Brotani Posted: March 05, 2023 at 10:13 PM (#6119596)
Wow, what a home court whistle there for Jaylen Brown.
   1061. jmurph Posted: March 06, 2023 at 08:27 AM (#6119606)
low energy

This will surely be solved by a double overtime loss followed by a road game tonight!
   1062. asinwreck Posted: March 06, 2023 at 11:15 AM (#6119627)
The Knicks are riding their longest winning streak in a decade, so it's not just the Celtics. They look more connected on offense than I remember in the post Linsanity era.
   1063. jmurph Posted: March 06, 2023 at 11:43 AM (#6119633)
It's definitely impressive what the Knicks are doing. Quickley is a ton of fun (well not when he's crushing your team, but still). Randle is...difficult to watch, unless maybe you're a Knicks fan, but he puts up numbers. I've liked Brunson on the Knicks a lot and am happy to admit I was probably a little too hard on them for going so hard after him.

On the other hand, if RJ Barrett was really the holdup in a potential Donovan Mitchell deal, then they look to have made a catastrophic mistake.
   1064. spivey Posted: March 06, 2023 at 12:00 PM (#6119638)
Randle has made the all-star game twice in the last 3 years, which I think overrates him a fair bit. I think Brunson is the best player on the team, and the straw stirring the 5th rated offense drink.

Man, I know Dallas ###### up not offering Brunson like 4/55 midseason last year or whatever, but was there any price they could have paid to keep him? Between the playoffs last year and his play this year, he's a max guy for me, right now.
   1065. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: March 06, 2023 at 12:11 PM (#6119640)
When Zion was at Duke, I thought he had a similar playing style to Randle (with much better efficiency), and their box score stats dont look that different, especially if you only look at Randle's Knicks numbers:

JR: 22.3 ppg, 10.a rpg, 4.6 apg
ZW: 25.8 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 3.6 apg

Zion crushes in efficiency of course, but Randle has been much more durable.
   1066. DCA Posted: March 06, 2023 at 12:27 PM (#6119643)
Dallas' biggest problem is they can't rebound at all (-5.3 RPG margin). They were not terrible at it before this season with similar personnel* (-0.6 RPG margin in each of the two previous seasons), and their two biggest offseason adds were Javale and Wood, who are the team's best rebounders, so I'm not sure what else they are supposed to do. But Kyrie isn't the answer to that problem, and Brunson probably isn't either.

* They did trade Porzingis and were badly outrebounded in last year's playoffs without him, but I didn't expect him to be worth 5 net rebounds per game, or 7 per game that he actually plays.
   1067. DCA Posted: March 06, 2023 at 12:31 PM (#6119646)
On the other hand, if RJ Barrett was really the holdup in a potential Donovan Mitchell deal, then they look to have made a catastrophic mistake.

Barrett is just a less durable Andrew Wiggins, right? They're even both from Toronto. Knicks are smartly holding on to him for that year 8 breakout season.
   1068. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 06, 2023 at 12:38 PM (#6119648)
Man, I know Dallas ###### up not offering Brunson like 4/55 midseason last year or whatever, but was there any price they could have paid to keep him? Between the playoffs last year and his play this year, he's a max guy for me, right now.
nah; he was pretty hard set on going to NYK, IIRC.
   1069. jmurph Posted: March 06, 2023 at 12:42 PM (#6119649)
Barrett is just a less durable Andrew Wiggins, right? They're even both from Toronto. Knicks are smartly holding on to him for that year 8 breakout season.

He's still only 22, many many guys have been written off young and then turned it on later. But the extension kicks in next season, somewhat offsetting that factor.

And as many people (me included, I'm pretty sure) pointed out at the time, a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt would have created a lot of defensive problems. And then yet another maybe, maybe there just wasn't a deal to be made with Utah, it's hard to parse the rumors. But Barrett does not currently look like he's on the way to becoming a guy that matters, from what I've seen.
   1070. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: March 06, 2023 at 12:48 PM (#6119651)
I did watch a lot of the Suns-Mavs game yesterday, and boy is Luca hard to watch. Not just the endless whining, but he's creating the contact every time he has the ball inside the arc.
   1071. asinwreck Posted: March 06, 2023 at 12:52 PM (#6119652)
When a major program hires a prized recruit's father as an assistant coach, that's a sign a commitment has been made in advance of the signing period.
   1072. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: March 06, 2023 at 09:17 PM (#6119753)
The Nuggets are good at basketball, sure, but they are also a funny looking crew.
   1073. tshipman Posted: March 06, 2023 at 11:31 PM (#6119762)
All time gaack job from Grant Williams at the end of the game there.
   1074. nick swisher hygiene Posted: March 07, 2023 at 12:04 AM (#6119764)
####, Harden puts up 20 assists and one (1) turnover, that seems pretty good, right? And then considering Embiid shoots 19 free throws (making all of them), so none of those are assist opportunities. Anyway, I've been enjoying some beverages and did not see the game, but that performance seems...notewortty
   1075. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 07, 2023 at 12:19 AM (#6119767)
####, Harden puts up 20 assists and one (1) turnover, that seems pretty good, right? And then considering Embiid shoots 19 free throws (making all of them), so none of those are assist opportunities. Anyway, I've been enjoying some beverages and did not see the game, but that performance seems...notewortty
do it in the playoffs; then we'll talk.
   1076. Russlan is not Russian Posted: March 07, 2023 at 12:28 AM (#6119768)
There's currently a 4-way tie for 9th in the West. Jazz, Pelicans, Blazers, and Lakers are all 31-34. OKC is 30-34 and a half-game back.

Wild.
   1077. DCA Posted: March 07, 2023 at 12:57 AM (#6119770)
Harden puts up 20 assists and one (1) turnover, that seems pretty good, right?

Tyrese put up 16 points and 2 turnovers in the same game, and added 40 points on 19 shots. And if his teammates shot free throws as well as Harden's, the Pacers would have won.
   1078. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 07, 2023 at 05:05 PM (#6119841)
Tyrese put up 16 points and 2 turnovers in the same game


This is not particularly helpful in a game between the Pacers and the 76ers. I got it from context though.
   1079. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: March 07, 2023 at 05:17 PM (#6119844)
Tyrese put up 16 points and 2 turnovers in the same game, and added 40 points on 19 shots.

This part was also a bit difficult to parse*

* It wasn't that difficult to parse.
   1080. Russlan is not Russian Posted: March 07, 2023 at 10:34 PM (#6119882)
Right at this exact moment, there are five teams tied at 31-34 in the Western conference.
   1081. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: March 08, 2023 at 12:11 AM (#6119897)
This is not particularly helpful in a game between the Pacers and the 76ers. I got it from context though.
This part was also a bit difficult to parse*

* It wasn't that difficult to parse.
if it makes you people feel any better, my first thought was "is tyreke evans back in the NBA again?"
   1082. Russlan is not Russian Posted: March 08, 2023 at 12:30 AM (#6119900)
AD is huge again, putting up 30 and 22. He was 11-17 from the field, and the only blight was a 7 turnovers.

For the first time this season, the Lakers are in a playoff spot.
   1083. aberg Posted: March 08, 2023 at 05:39 AM (#6119905)
Based on strictly emotional reactions, here are some post-trade gut feelings.

Enjoy watching the Suns. I realized I have never liked a team KD plays on. Hate OKC for stealing Sonics. Hate Warriors for getting Steph instead of the Wolves getting him and cap spike falling in their laps, plus normal dynasty resentment. Hated Nets because Kyrie. Dude is like 45 years old and I'm finally enjoying him. I'm hoping we get a Phoenix-Denver playoff series just to see which way my heart goes.

Stock way down to Dallas. Love Luka because Lebron has been my guy since HS and Luka is the stylistic heir, but never liked the city of Dallas and feel much more comfortable cheering against them with their infowars disciple.

Stock up to the Nets. I haven't been watching them, but I love checking the box scores to see how they allocated minutes to their 11 wings.

   1084. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: March 08, 2023 at 08:39 AM (#6119916)
Steph had 40 points and 10 3's last night, but the Warriors lost another road game. 7-25 on the road this year, that's more than just a blip.
   1085. spivey Posted: March 08, 2023 at 08:54 AM (#6119918)
Big win for Milwaukee at Orlando without Jrue or Giannis. Middleton played 31 minutes and shot 14 free throws and had 11 assists, which are all highs since he came back in January.

My biggest worry besides health - which is a very big worry for an aging great team - is that Bud is not the right coach to manage all of the players/minutes/rotations. He's already shown weakness at managing minutes in the playoffs before, though tbf he has done better starting basically when they were down 2-0 to the Nets. But adding Dragic adds to that worry for me. I worry about him and Crowder getting minutes they don't deserve because of their name. I don't imagine there's ever a world in where Dragic gets minutes that shouldn't be going to Connaughton or Carter.
   1086. sardonic Posted: March 08, 2023 at 10:38 AM (#6119928)
Steph had 40 points and 10 3's last night, but the Warriors lost another road game. 7-25 on the road this year, that's more than just a blip.


This is just who they are this season. My post from last week:

It's easier if you just expect that there is a magical force driving them toward .500 this season. I expect them to make Westbrook look functional and give the Clips their first win with him on Thursday to balance this out.

It is crazy how mid the West has been though -- the current 4th seed (Suns) is on pace for 43.6 wins. That is turrible, I remember a year the Warriors missed the playoffs with more wins than that (the year after We Believe, IIRC).


I'm starting to wonder if losing Mike Brown to the Kings was a bigger loss than I thought. They made the transition from Ron Adams to Brown pretty well, but the defense just hasn't consistently been there. They are down some talent vs. last year (GP2, OPJ, Wiggins), but it's the inconsistency of effort that says coaching/player issue to me, because they seem perfectly capable of playing good defense when at home with the same talent.
   1087. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: March 08, 2023 at 11:38 AM (#6119933)
Is Wiggins expected back? He was so good for them last year. I haven't been following the team closely enough to know what "personal issues" he's been facing.
   1088. sardonic Posted: March 08, 2023 at 11:46 AM (#6119934)
It's shrouded in mystery, but seems pretty serious. I think the beat writers know, and when he didn't return after the All Star Break there were a few tweets/mentions in articles that implied it was serious and he wasn't just slacking off. I hope this isn't actually the case, but sounds like something pretty bad happened with him or his family.
   1089. Hombre Brotani Posted: March 08, 2023 at 09:25 PM (#6119989)
The Pelicans, who've lost 6 of their last 7, are running Luka and Kyrie and the Mavs right off the floor.
   1090. asinwreck Posted: March 08, 2023 at 09:44 PM (#6119991)
Shawn Kemp has now taken the lead of the NBA community's most unfortunate firearm incident for the week.
   1091. spivey Posted: March 08, 2023 at 09:48 PM (#6119992)
Every Western Conference game it feels has massive playoff implications. It's good fun.
   1092. spivey Posted: March 08, 2023 at 09:53 PM (#6119993)
Big time 4th quarter from CJ. I like his fit quite a bit on this team. I really hope we get a healthy Pels season in the next 1-2 years.
   1093. asinwreck Posted: March 08, 2023 at 11:04 PM (#6119997)
In the best game Patrick Williams has played in his career, the Bulls are somehow up 21 on the Nuggets IN DENVER with less than four minutes to go.

They may actually win.
   1094. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: March 09, 2023 at 08:41 AM (#6120008)
It's been said a lot, but this Mavs team can't guard anyone. They're giving up 120 points per game since Kyrie joined the team (1 OT game). That would be the 2nd worst defense in the league, only better than the Spurs.
   1095. asinwreck Posted: March 09, 2023 at 08:59 AM (#6120009)
Amazing win for the Bulls, followed by depressing yet expected news:
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
ESPN Sources: There is a growing possibility that Chicago Bulls guard Lonzo Ball will need a third surgical procedure on his right knee that would likely require another six months of recovery and rehabilitation.
   1096. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: March 09, 2023 at 09:57 AM (#6120015)
Ugh. We don't talk about worst contracts as much in basketball (because they still have trade value, I guess?), but Lonzo playing 35 games in the first half of a four-year deal has to be one of the worst recent ones. Bad injury luck I suppose, but I really hope he can get back on the court, he's an exciting player.

   1097. asinwreck Posted: March 09, 2023 at 10:07 AM (#6120016)
In other knee injury news...
Tim Bontemps @TimBontemps
The Grizzlies announced Steven Adams got a stem cell injection in his injured knee and will be re-evaluated in four weeks — meaning he’ll miss the remainder of the regular season, at minimum.
   1098. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: March 09, 2023 at 10:08 AM (#6120017)
Thinking about it, there are plenty of contracts that go south due to injury, but fewer handed out to guys with no resume. I'm thinking of Jim McIlvaine, Jerome James, Mozgov, etc.
   1099. Rally Posted: March 09, 2023 at 11:13 AM (#6120020)
Starting to look like the Lakers will keep their 2023 first rounder. It’s a pick swap with the Pelicans, but the two teams have the same record. One way or another the Pelicans will draft ahead of the Lakers but looking like it’s just the difference of picking 13th instead of 12th, or something like that.
   1100. Rally Posted: March 09, 2023 at 11:14 AM (#6120021)
Love the youtube channel with the video game teams.
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