The 60/20 club is underselling Acuna (not to mention Eric Davis) on homers. Guess those cutoffs were set to sneak Rickey and Joe onto the list.:) Acuna is on the verge of 60/30, who has done that, just Davis?
[looks it up] Oh, I'm wrong. Davis never went 60/30.

Hence the "own special club" reference in the headline.

An interesting way to look at it might be:

most SB by someone with 10+ HRs
most SB by someone with 20+ HRs, etc.
most HR by someone with 30+ SB, etc.

B-R has the "power/speed" number. I don't know how it's calculated or if it's actually useful for anything. The top career guys are Bonds (way out in front), Rickey, Mays, ARod, Bobby Bonds, Morgan, Dawson, Aaron, Beltran and Biggio. So a weird collection of uber-power with good speed, top speed with a bit of power and Dawson, Beltranand Bobby.

The single season record holder is ARod at 43.91 in 1998 with 42 HR and 46 SB. Next up is Soriano 2006 with his 46 HR, 41 SB. Eric Davis 1987 with 37/50 and Rickey 28/87 are next. Barry and Soriano are the only ones with 2 seasons in the top 10.

Anyway, Acuna this year sits just 15th all-time. Again, I don't know how it's calculated but it seems to weigh HRs over SBs (fair enough IMO). There might be some context or some adjustment that awards similarity or thresholds for the two numbers. Unexpectedly Acuna is behind Larry Walker's 1987 (49/33) and even Matt Kemp's 2011 (39/40). So I assume that means Acuna mostly needs some HRs to move up the list -- it would seem a solid 5 weeks could move him all the way up to at least 3rd but I won't guarantee that.

When I was a kid, I thought 30/30 was very cool (and Bobby Bonds very cool) so obviously 30/30 is still cool.

Power-speed # is 2(sb*hr)/(sb+hr).

Acuna right now: 2(29*61)/(29+61) = 39.31

Edit: 33hr/67sb = 44.2 power/speed # which would be #1 and seems in reach.

Any stolen base records set this year need an asterisk, no?

Eric Davis has 2 in the top 10.
1986 27 hr/80 sb and 1987 37/50.

I put this in the Betts thread recently, noting that Acuna was a near-lock to be the first 30/60 guy (he was then 28/59).

The closest to 30/60 (before Acuna): Rickey has two 28/60+ seasons, and Eric Davis and Barry Bonds each have one 30+/50+ season. That's it, ever (and all four seasons occurred in the five-year period from 1986 to 1990).

Power/speed clearly peaked in 1990. As did baseball as a whole (I was 11, so yeah).

I was 17, but, my Reds did win what may end up being the only World Series I was old enough to remember happening, so yeah.

Edit: Joe Morgan went 27/60 in 1976 and had another 20/60 season earlier in his time with the Reds. Those are the only other 20/60 seasons I can find.

#4 - Why? The bigger bases aren't supposed to just be a one year experiment, so unless you think all stolen base records going forward should be asterisked, it doesn't make sense to do so for this season either.

#2 - The 30/30 club is still cool, but it's interesting how quickly it went from super rare to relatively common overnight, and how it mostly stayed that way despite all the rest of the changes that happened in MLB over the last 35-ish years.

Starting from the first 30/30 season in 1922 (Ken Williams), it happened only 11 times by 6 different players in 65 seasons from 1922-1986, with Bobby Bonds accounting for almost half those instances (5). Then it happened 4 times in 1987 and 49 total times from 1987-2012 (so an average of almost twice per season), with at least one 30/30 season every year in that span except for the strike year of 1994 (and Bonds was 37/29, so it certainly would have been done) and 2010. Then we had a mini drought where it looked like it was going to become rare again with no 30/30 seasons in 5 years (2013-2017), before it came roaring back with 5 more new entries from 2018-2021 (obviously none in the 2020 COVID season). We saw another o-fer last year, but this season we're not only going to get back on the board (Acuna for sure), but we could even challenge the all time record of 4 set in 1987, 1996, 1997, and 2011. There's at least 8 players I found with 20/20 so far this season, plus possibly others I missed:

Ronald Acuna - 29/61
Corbin Carroll - 23/40
Bobby Witt - 26/38
Julio Rodriguez - 24/35
Kyle Tucker - 26/26
Jose Ramirez - 21/21
Fernando Tatis Jr - 20/23
Francisco Lindor - 24/23

#4 - Why? The bigger bases aren't supposed to just be a one year experiment

Is it the bigger bases, or the "throw over" limitation, that is the biggest change?

#10 - I don't know, but either way, if those changes are here to stay, I don't see the reasoning behind a perpetual asterisk being attached to all stolen base totals going forward.

The problem with these HR/SB clubs is the fact that home runs are a helluva lot more valuable than stolen bases are, about five times more. Sure, stolen bases are exciting, but give me a hulk who blasts 50 dingers a year and couldn't steal a base if he broke into the ballpark in the middle of the night...every time.

#12 - Well sure, when we're talking about specialists, don't think anyone is under the illusion that Vince Coleman was a better player than Mark McGwire. But what's wrong with a well rounded player who can add value in both ways? Acuna would be a lesser player if he didn't steal bases in addition to his power and contact hitting.

I like varied approaches to the game and seeing stars produce value in different ways. I love a good McGwire/Thome type who can blast 50 homers with turtle speed, but there's no reason why we can't also appreciate the all around greatness of the Acuna, Carroll, Julio Rodriquez types too. The homogenization of the game where everyone tries to produce maximum value the same way (swing for the fences on every pitch and don't worry about strikeouts, stolen bases, or batting average) has been one of my biggest gripes about modern MLB for years. It's nice to see a little variety returning.

There's at least 8 players I found with 20/20 so far this season, plus possibly others I missed . . .

On the verge, Anthony Volpe at 19 HR & 20 SB. Not bad for a 22-year old rookie.

When you’re looking at power-speed guys like A-Rod, Ricky, (pre-roids) Barry Bonds, etc, the “give me stoic slow slugger Mark McGwire every time” argument doesn’t seem so compelling.

but give me a hulk who blasts 50 dingers a year and couldn't steal a base if he broke into the ballpark in the middle of the night...every time.

Boring. Yeah, he's going to help your team win more games then the light hitting speedster with 70 SB, but most hulks aren't like that. Most hit 36 dingers and K 200 times a season.

Well, there aren't hulks who blast 50 dingers a year every year. Mac and Sosa for a while of course; Ruth and others back in the old days.

Now obviously #12 is more right than wrong but I think we'd mostly take Acuna over Chris Davis or Kingman. I'm 100% certain we'd take Joe Morgan over Harmon Killebrew. Defense plays a role but Larry Walker or prime Andre Dawson (much less ARod) over Mark McGwire is reasonable. Even more extreme, Kenny Lofton or David Ortiz? And we all dream of what might have been for Eric Davis.

But sure, much of the HR/SB fascination is a mini-Ohtani kind of thing. Guys with power and big SB totals were rare so guys who could do both drew lots of attention. Once fitness and weight training (and possibly other things!) got into the game, the combination of power and speed became much more common -- 40/40 was the new 30/30 really.

So who might be the best "pure slugger" in terms of overall value of the post-expansion era -- i.e. a guy who really only had a bat, very limited defensive value or baserunning. Looking at the WAR list I first through Frank Robinson but he stole 15-20 a year early and had >200 SB for his career. Pujols possibly but he did crack 10 SBs 3 times, was a good runner and defender for a 1B ... which I'm not sure disqualifies him from "pure" slugger. If you don't take Pujols, I think it's not until you get to Thomas, Thome and Palmeiro at 72-74 WAR.

Was there a big WAR change sometime in the last couple of years? I don't recall FRobinson being over 100, Mathews at 96 or Thomas as high as 74. But my memory sucks.

I know we all know this but it still feels strange. In terms of the non-power types, obviously it does come down to what they can add in BA/OBP, defense and running. Playing time aside (since I can'f find a handy WAA table anyway) ...

Boggs 91 WAR
Carew 81
Rose 80
Brooks 78
Ozzie 77
Whitaker 75
Jeter 71
Larkin 70
Raines 69
Gwynn 69
Lofton 68

comped with Manny 69, Palmeiro 72, Thome 73, Thomas 74, Reggie 74 (and young Reggie was not a typical slugger). Speed goes a long way as long as you can turn it into both baserunning and defensive value and you can get on base a lot. Ichiro, Killebrew, Sheffield and Willie Davis are between 60.0 and 60.7 WAR.

WAR of course doesn't really measure these things to a decimal point of accuracy, heck maybe not even 5 wins of accuracy, but over the course of a 15-20 year career, it's fair to say these speed guys were roughly as valuable as the pure sluggers. But even if you drill down to oWAR (which does have a positional adjustment), Rose and Carew have a bit more oWAR than Thome, Thomas and Miggy.

One thing nearly all of these guys have in common is getting on base a lot, whether by BA or BB. But if these guys are generating similar levels of OBP value then that suggests that the value added by power and speed might be about the same. I don't actually believe that (yet?) but you never know.

So let's see, Kenny Lofton (372) and McCovey (374) have about the same career OBP and PA. (I assume that McCovey's OBP+ is better but am not gonna check.)

WM 486 Rbat, -10 run + dp, -80 Rfield, -120 Rpos, 64.5 WAR, 72 oWAR
KL 140 Rbat, 102 run + dp, 108 Rfield, + 43 Rpos, 68.4 WAR, 58 oWAR

So no big surprise, the batting gap is a whopping 346 runs. The running gap is 110 in Lofton's favor, surprising only in that it's hard to believe McCovey was only -10 (but then I never saw the young McCovey. Being able to play CF rather than 1B is 10 runs to Lofton. The defensive gap is another whopping 190.

It's maybe a little hard to believe the total defensive gap is really a whopping 37 wins (-22 dWAR vs +15) while it's easy to believe the batting gap is 35 wins. So fine, we make WM 5 wins better and KL 5 wins worse and they just flip their WAR, that's still close enough over 9500 PA.

Or at a more human level, Bert Camaneris was a skinny, poor hitter (89 OPS+, 311 OBP) and Fred McGrifff was a large, strong guy with a 134 OPS+ and 377 OBP. Campaneris is credited with being 71 runs below average with the bat while McGriff was 400 runs above. Yet they still both ended up on 53 WAR. Baseball is a funny game.

So who might be the best "pure slugger" in terms of overall value of the post-expansion era -- i.e. a guy who really only had a bat, very limited defensive value or baserunning.
Ortiz and Edgar come to mind, in addition to some of the others you listed.

Related question is which post-expansion player derived the most of their value purely from hitting HRs. So a low average HR hitter who didn't hit a lot of other XBHs, didn't run, and didn't field. My guess is Adam Dunn.

It seems really weird to have a HR/SB club discussion and nobody that I skimmed mentioned Jose Canseco at all. Charter member of the 40/40 club. That seemed to me, in that era, as the mother of all big deals at the time. As in - holy cow, this is something no one has ever accomplished before.

Anyone interested in seeing if we can name all the members of the 30/30 club? You wouldn't need to know the year(s) or how many times they've done it. In total it's happened 65 times by 43 different players. I'll start with the players who were already mentioned in this thread as doing it:

1922 - Ken Williams
1956 - Willie Mays
1957 - Willie Mays
1963 - Hank Aaron
1969 - Bobby Bonds
1970 -
1973 - Bobby Bonds
1975 - Bobby Bonds
1977 - Bobby Bonds
1978 - Bobby Bonds
1983 -
1987 (4) - Eric Davis
1988 - Jose Canseco
1989 -
1990 (2) - Barry Bonds
1991 (2) -
1992 - Barry Bonds
1993 -
1995 (2) - Barry Bonds
1996 (4) - Barry Bonds
1997 (4) - Barry Bonds, Larry Walker
1998 (2) - Alex Rodriguez
1999 (2) -
2000 -
2001 (3) -
2002 (2) - Alfonso Soriano
2003 - Alfonso Soriano
2004 (2) - Carlos Beltran
2005 - Alfonso Soriano
2006 - Alfonso Soriano
2007 (3) -
2008 (2) -
2009 -
2011 (4) - Matt Kemp
2012 (2) -
2018 (2) -
2019 (2) - Ronald Acuna
2021 -

Howard Johnson had 3 such seasons, didn't he?

Edit: Sosa a few times too until he bulked himself up into the Hulk.

Daryl Strawberry I think

Vlad Guerrero the Elder

Jeff Bagwell definitely did it.

Edit: I think David Wright had one.

Oh, Barry Larkin was the first middle infielder to have a 30/30 season in 1996.

Edit: staying with Reds middle infielders, Brandon Phillips

Mike Trout is an easy one.

These are guesses:

Cutch, Ian Kinsler, Ryan Braun, Grady Sizemore

Correct:

Howard Johnson (1987, 1989, 1991)
Sammy Sosa (1993, 1995)
Darryl Strawberry (1987)
Vlad Guerrero Sr (2001, 2002)
Jeff Bagwell (1997, 1999)
David Wright (2007)
Barry Larkin (1996)
Brandon Phillips (2007)
Mike Trout (2012)
Ian Kinsler (2009, 2011)
Ryan Braun (2011, 2012)
Grady Sizemore (2008)

Cutch did not do it

1922 - Ken Williams
1956 - Willie Mays
1957 - Willie Mays
1963 - Hank Aaron
1969 - Bobby Bonds
1970 -
1973 - Bobby Bonds
1975 - Bobby Bonds
1977 - Bobby Bonds
1978 - Bobby Bonds
1983 -
1987 (4) - Eric Davis, Howard Johnson, Darryl Strawberry
1988 - Jose Canseco
1989 - Howard Johnson
1990 (2) - Barry Bonds
1991 (2) - Howard Johnson
1992 - Barry Bonds
1993 - Sammy Sosa
1995 (2) - Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa
1996 (4) - Barry Bonds, Barry Larkin
1997 (4) - Barry Bonds, Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell
1998 (2) - Alex Rodriguez
1999 (2) - Jeff Bagwell
2000 -
2001 (3) - Vlad Guerrero
2002 (2) - Alfonso Soriano, Vlad Guerrero
2003 - Alfonso Soriano
2004 (2) - Carlos Beltran
2005 - Alfonso Soriano
2006 - Alfonso Soriano
2007 (3) - David Wright, Brandon Phillips
2008 (2) - Grady Sizemore
2009 - Ian Kinsler
2011 (4) - Matt Kemp, Ian Kinsler, Ryan Braun
2012 (2) - Ryan Braun, Mike Trout
2018 (2) -
2019 (2) - Ronald Acuna
2021 -

Trea Turner may be one of the recent ones.

21 seasons left by 18 different players. 3 players who haven't been mentioned yet did it twice.

Turner was close in 2021 (28/32) but has not done it.

Oh, Shawn Green for sure. Trying to remember my late 90s-early aughts fantasy baseball days...

Steve Finley

Mookie in his MVP year.

Shawn Green (1998) and Mookie Betts (2018) are correct.

Steve Finley is not (he stopped stealing 30 bases once he started hitting 30 homers)

I found one of the 1996 guys, but that was by looking him up after thinking 'there's no way this guy stole 30 bases.'

Hint - The 2 remaining 1996 guys played on the same team, one of just 2 instances where a team had two 30/30 players (along with the 1987 Mets of Strawberry and HoJo, who have both already been mentioned)

Reggie Sanders
Ray Lankford
Mike Cameron

Ellis Burks had a 40/30 season

Ron Gant before he got hurt?

Ellis Burks (1996) and Ron Gant (1990, 1991) are correct.

Surprisingly, none of Reggie Sanders, Ray Lankford, or Mike Cameron ever had a 30/30 season.

Brian Jordan? Was Ellis Burks a Rockie in 96? Dante Bichette?!

Adrian Beltre?

1922 - Ken Williams
1956 - Willie Mays
1957 - Willie Mays
1963 - Hank Aaron
1969 - Bobby Bonds
1970 -
1973 - Bobby Bonds
1975 - Bobby Bonds
1977 - Bobby Bonds
1978 - Bobby Bonds
1983 -
1987 (4) - Eric Davis, Howard Johnson, Darryl Strawberry
1988 - Jose Canseco
1989 - Howard Johnson
1990 (2) - Barry Bonds, Ron Gant
1991 (2) - Howard Johnson, Ron Gant
1992 - Barry Bonds
1993 - Sammy Sosa
1995 (2) - Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa
1996 (4) - Barry Bonds, Barry Larkin, Ellis Burks, Dante Bichette
1997 (4) - Barry Bonds, Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell
1998 (2) - Alex Rodriguez, Shawn Green
1999 (2) - Jeff Bagwell
2000 -
2001 (3) - Vlad Guerrero
2002 (2) - Alfonso Soriano, Vlad Guerrero
2003 - Alfonso Soriano
2004 (2) - Carlos Beltran
2005 - Alfonso Soriano
2006 - Alfonso Soriano
2007 (3) - David Wright, Brandon Phillips
2008 (2) - Grady Sizemore
2009 - Ian Kinsler
2011 (4) - Matt Kemp, Ian Kinsler, Ryan Braun
2012 (2) - Ryan Braun, Mike Trout
2018 (2) - Mookie Betts
2019 (2) - Ronald Acuna
2021 - Cedric Mullins

Carlos Gonzalez?

Lindor and/or Baez?

Dante Bichette (1996) is correct. He joined Burks as rare 30/30 teammates.

Brian Jordan and Beltre are not correct.

No on CarGo

Oh, the CF for the Orioles did it. Mullins?

Cedric Mullins (2021) is correct

Edit: Lindor and Baez are not

My one regret about the return of the stolen base is that probably within a few years my personal favorite baseball factoid will be lost: that the only two players in baseball history with five 30/30 seasons are Bobby Bonds and Barry Bonds.

Jimmy Rollins, he had that 30hr/20-3b/30sb season I believe

Is 2000 Raul Mondesi? I don't even remember his career that well but I have this nagging idea that he went 30/30 and he's not on the list yet.

99 is also Ivan Rodriguez?

Rollins (2007) and Mondesi (1997, 1999) are correct (although Mondesi wasn't the 2000 guy)

Edit: Pudge Rodriguez is not

1922 - Ken Williams
1956 - Willie Mays
1957 - Willie Mays
1963 - Hank Aaron
1969 - Bobby Bonds
1970 -
1973 - Bobby Bonds
1975 - Bobby Bonds
1977 - Bobby Bonds
1978 - Bobby Bonds
1983 -
1987 (4) - Eric Davis, Howard Johnson, Darryl Strawberry
1988 - Jose Canseco
1989 - Howard Johnson
1990 (2) - Barry Bonds, Ron Gant
1991 (2) - Howard Johnson, Ron Gant
1992 - Barry Bonds
1993 - Sammy Sosa
1995 (2) - Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa
1996 (4) - Barry Bonds, Barry Larkin, Ellis Burks, Dante Bichette
1997 (4) - Barry Bonds, Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell, Raul Mondesi
1998 (2) - Alex Rodriguez, Shawn Green
1999 (2) - Jeff Bagwell, Raul Mondesi
2000 -
2001 (3) - Vlad Guerrero
2002 (2) - Alfonso Soriano, Vlad Guerrero
2003 - Alfonso Soriano
2004 (2) - Carlos Beltran
2005 - Alfonso Soriano
2006 - Alfonso Soriano
2007 (3) - David Wright, Brandon Phillips, Jimmy Rollins
2008 (2) - Grady Sizemore
2009 - Ian Kinsler
2011 (4) - Matt Kemp, Ian Kinsler, Ryan Braun
2012 (2) - Ryan Braun, Mike Trout
2018 (2) - Mookie Betts
2019 (2) - Ronald Acuna
2021 - Cedric Mullins

Did someone say Mike Cameron yet? I am pretty sure he had one and don't see him on the list. Could be in that 99-2001 range.

Edit: Pudge Rodriguez is not

35/25 that year! Dang it! Pretty amazing for a catcher tho.

Bobby Abreu
Jacoby Ellsbury
Joe Carter

I was told Mike Cameron did not

For 1983, Dale Murphy seems as good a guess as any...

Juan Samuel for 1983?

Preston Wilson
Hanley Ramirez
David Wright (edit: someone already said Wright)

Trying to get the guy from 83 (it's not Samuel). Also not Guerrero, or Gibson, or Sandberg, or Durham.

Edit: 1983 is Murphy! Should have read one comment higher.

Yes:
Bobby Abreu (2001, 2004)
Jacoby Ellsbury (2011)
Joe Carter (1987)
Dale Murphy (1983)
Preston Wilson (2000)
Hanley Ramirez (2008)

No on Juan Samuel or Mike Cameron (again ;-)

Jose Cruz Jr

1922 - Ken Williams
1956 - Willie Mays
1957 - Willie Mays
1963 - Hank Aaron
1969 - Bobby Bonds
1970 -
1973 - Bobby Bonds
1975 - Bobby Bonds
1977 - Bobby Bonds
1978 - Bobby Bonds
1983 - Dale Murphy
1987 (4) - Eric Davis, Howard Johnson, Darryl Strawberry, Joe Carter
1988 - Jose Canseco
1989 - Howard Johnson
1990 (2) - Barry Bonds, Ron Gant
1991 (2) - Howard Johnson, Ron Gant
1992 - Barry Bonds
1993 - Sammy Sosa
1995 (2) - Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa
1996 (4) - Barry Bonds, Barry Larkin, Ellis Burks, Dante Bichette
1997 (4) - Barry Bonds, Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell, Raul Mondesi
1998 (2) - Alex Rodriguez, Shawn Green
1999 (2) - Jeff Bagwell, Raul Mondesi
2000 - Preston Wilson
2001 (3) - Vlad Guerrero, Bobby Abreu, Jose Cruz Jr
2002 (2) - Alfonso Soriano, Vlad Guerrero
2003 - Alfonso Soriano
2004 (2) - Carlos Beltran, Bobby Abreu
2005 - Alfonso Soriano
2006 - Alfonso Soriano
2007 (3) - David Wright, Brandon Phillips, Jimmy Rollins
2008 (2) - Grady Sizemore, Hanley Ramirez
2009 - Ian Kinsler
2011 (4) - Matt Kemp, Ian Kinsler, Ryan Braun, Jacoby Ellsbury
2012 (2) - Ryan Braun, Mike Trout
2018 (2) - Mookie Betts
2019 (2) - Ronald Acuna, Christian Yelich
2021 - Cedric Mullins

Yelich! Is he 2018 and 2019 or just one year?

Edit: just one year (2019).

Yes on Jose Cruz Jr (2001) and Christian Yelich (2019)

So, do we just need 1970 and one guy in 2018?

Yep, 1970 and the 2nd 2018 guy are the only ones left

1970 - Not someone I was familiar with. This was his only all star season and the only year he hit more than 18 homers. Did lead the league in SB twice.

2018 - I figured this guy would be guessed already. Perennial 20/20 guy, but this was his only 30 SB season

Tim Anderson probably checks under his bed every night to make sure the 2018 guy isn't hiding there

2018 sounds like Jose Ramirez


Edit: posted before #68

Jose Ramirez (2018) is correct.

I'll be impressed if anyone guesses the 1970 guy without cheating.

I should have gotten it without cheating. I looked him up to see if he'd hit 30, then kicked myself for not guessing.

I think this is a complete list of every season in MLB history where no one has ever had more home runs and stolen bases

Player.................Year.HR.SB
Barry Bonds........2001.73.13
Sammy Sosa.......1998.66.18
Ken Griffey Jr.......1998.56.20
Alex Rodriguez.....2007.54.24
Larry Walker........1997.49.33
Alfonso Soriano....2006.46.41
Alex Rodriguez.....1998.42.46
Eric Davis............1987.37.50
Barry Bonds.........1990.33.52
Ronald Acuna Jr....2023.29.61
Rickey Henderson.1986.28.87
Harry Stovey........1890.12.97
Rickey Henderson.1982.10.130

1970 - Not someone I was familiar with. This was his only all star season and the only year he hit more than 18 homers. Did lead the league in SB twice.

Tommy Harper?

Tommy Harper in 1970 is correct!

Good job, fellas.

Final list:

1922 - Ken Williams
1956 - Willie Mays
1957 - Willie Mays
1963 - Hank Aaron
1969 - Bobby Bonds
1970 - Tommy Harper
1973 - Bobby Bonds
1975 - Bobby Bonds
1977 - Bobby Bonds
1978 - Bobby Bonds
1983 - Dale Murphy
1987 (4) - Eric Davis, Howard Johnson, Darryl Strawberry, Joe Carter
1988 - Jose Canseco
1989 - Howard Johnson
1990 (2) - Barry Bonds, Ron Gant
1991 (2) - Howard Johnson, Ron Gant
1992 - Barry Bonds
1993 - Sammy Sosa
1995 (2) - Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa
1996 (4) - Barry Bonds, Barry Larkin, Ellis Burks, Dante Bichette
1997 (4) - Barry Bonds, Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell, Raul Mondesi
1998 (2) - Alex Rodriguez, Shawn Green
1999 (2) - Jeff Bagwell, Raul Mondesi
2000 - Preston Wilson
2001 (3) - Vlad Guerrero, Bobby Abreu, Jose Cruz Jr
2002 (2) - Alfonso Soriano, Vlad Guerrero
2003 - Alfonso Soriano
2004 (2) - Carlos Beltran, Bobby Abreu
2005 - Alfonso Soriano
2006 - Alfonso Soriano
2007 (3) - David Wright, Brandon Phillips, Jimmy Rollins
2008 (2) - Grady Sizemore, Hanley Ramirez
2009 - Ian Kinsler
2011 (4) - Matt Kemp, Ian Kinsler, Ryan Braun, Jacoby Ellsbury
2012 (2) - Ryan Braun, Mike Trout
2018 (2) - Mookie Betts, Jose Ramirez
2019 (2) - Ronald Acuna, Christian Yelich
2021 - Cedric Mullins

A few notes on my list in 72

Acuna is already on it and threatening to knock 1990 Bonds and possibly Eric Davis off.
Bonds, ARod, and Rickey all appear twice.
3 players from 1998 appear on the list, plus 1997 and 2001
3 players from 1986-1990 appear on the list, including the 2 threatened by Acuna.
Rickey's 1986 stands out. Closest SBs for a player with at least 28 HR was Rickey in 1990 with 65, then Acuna. Closest HRs with at least 87 steals is 1890 Harry Stovey. Closest modern is Raines with 11 in 1983.

#76 - Maybe this is nitpicking, but what season ever surpassed Rickey's 1990 (28/65) in both homers and steals? His 1986 only tied it in homers, not surpassed it.

(And this will all be moot in another couple weeks anyway when Acuna gets his 66th SB)

Yeah, I didn't word that right. I didn't include seasons where someone got the same number of HRs and more stolen bases, or vice versa. So Rickey's 1986 equaled the HR total with more steals.

I haven't double-checked them all, but the other season I recall that was tied in one and exceeded in another was Willie Mays in 1955 with 51 HR and 24 SB.

So, I think the right way to describe the list is every season in MLB history where no one has ever equaled or exceeded the season total in both home runs and stolen bases.

I noted in another thread that Corbin Carroll already is the 4th rookie to 20 HR/40 SB:

1966 Tommie Agee 22/41 (after struggling cups of coffee in 1962, 1963, 1964, and 1965 at age 19-22)
1977 Mitchell Page 21/42 (out of nowhere at age 25)
2012 Mike Trout 30/49 (after 123 AB in 2011)
2023 Corbin Carroll 23/41 so far (after 104 AB in 2022)

so I guess Carroll is trying to be the first 30/50 rookie (someone should have told Trout - he only had 3 SB in the last 2 weeks ! although he was CS in the finale, a 12-0 loss).

(Agee shared a rookie card with P George Culver in 1965 and another with UT Marv Staehle in 1966)

I mentioned in #9 that there were already at least eight 20/20 guys in 2023 so far. Randy Arozarena (21/20) joined the group last night (for the 3rd year in a row).

I wonder what the record is for most 20/20 guys in a season?

Edit: And Volpe just entered the club today, so we're up to (at least) 10

Looks like I didn't miss any 20/20 players. 10 is the current number. However, these guys have a good to great shot at adding to the list:

Shohei Ohtani - 44/19
Freddie Freeman - 25/17
Cody Bellinger - 20/18
Luis Robert Jr - 35/17
Christian Yelich - 17/27
Trea Turner - 19/23
Ha-Seong Kim - 17/29
Josh Lowe - 18/26
George Springer - 17/19
Lane Thomas - 20/17

Phillies rookie Weston Wilson has exactly one stolen base and one home run in his 11 plate-appearance career (thus far). This is not a record: Herb Conyers had 1 HR and 1 SB in just 10 PA for the 1950 [NAME REDACTED]s. Conyers spent a decade in the minors and/or fighting in a war before finally making the big time at age 29. He spent two more years in the bushes before retiring at age 31, then lived just twelve more years before dying, age 43, in 1964.

More on Herb here. Ave atque vale.

EDIT: BTW, the guy with the most PA with 1 HR and 1 SB (1,645) is in the HOF.

EDIT: BTW, the guy with the most PA with 1 HR and 1 SB (1,645) is in the HOF.

Well, it's obviously a pitcher. I'll guess Maddux or Glavine.

Acuna with his 30th homer (a grand slam!) to officially add his name to the 30/30 club for a 2nd time.

Maddux is royally pissed off that you don't remember his 5 HR and 11 SB.

Managerial inductees Miller Huggins and Bucky Harris aside, the HoF position player with the fewest HRs seems to be Ray Schalk with 11; the lowest rate might be Johnny Evers with 12 in 7230 PA. The lowest post-war seems to be Ozzie with 28, coincidentally tied with Rabbit Maranville. Bob Lemon with 37 in 1330 PA seems to be the best among pitchers.

Ernie Lombardi takes the position player crown with 8 SBs. I think that's the only position player with fewer than Maddux's 11. Ortiz, Stargell and Piazza all made it to 17. McGwire had only 12 causing us to wonder why all those track athletes were taking roids.

I think this is a complete list of every season in MLB history where no one has ever had more home runs and stolen bases

this is horribly written both logically and I think grammatically. I finally figured out what you meant by reading the later comments.

86 Nicely done by Acuna; thought he would outdo Betts; but Betts hit 2
LA still has shot.

but Betts hit 2

Holy ####, .455/.516/.839 for August, while switching between RF and 2B (and playing above average D at both spots).

this is horribly written both logically and I think grammatically. I finally figured out what you meant by reading the later comments.

You're right. I normally just lurk here as I have for many years. I looked up the information for my own interest and then decided I would see if I could get back into my account to share it. I then realized I hadn't thought of a good way to describe what I meant, and didn't do a good job writing it out. Sorry for the confusion. I will probably just go back to lurking.

I liked it and thought it was perfectly clear what you meant. Please continue posting fun stuff!

#92 - Regardless of the phrasing, I thought it was a very interesting list and I'm glad you posted it!

I like this new, gentler BBTF !

..............

have a day, Ronald Acuña !

LOS ANGELES -- Ronald Acuña Jr. kept a ticket from Thursday night's game at Dodger Stadium and presented it to his longtime girlfriend, and now wife, Maria Laborde, inscribing it with the following message, written in Spanish:

"For the rest of my life, I hope you never forget this incredibly special day for us."

The day began with a hurried yet captivating wedding ceremony and ended with Acuña making history, hitting the grand slam that propelled the Atlanta Braves to an 8-7 victory over the similarly dominant Los Angeles Dodgers and made him the first player ever to combine 30 home runs and 60 stolen bases in a season.

His new wife and their two sons, 2-year-old Ronald Daniel and 11-month-old Jamall, watched from Section 108.

"We're a family," Acuña told ESPN in Spanish. "Since we've known each other, we've wanted to be together. We have two kids. Family is meant to be together. That comes before anything else. I'm really happy that's going to happen now."

Acuña, 25, and Maria, 23, met about four years ago and got engaged in January. But under the terms of her Venezuelan visa, Maria had to leave the United States by the end of the week and wouldn't be allowed to return for another three months, keeping her and the children away for a stretch run that, given the way this season has played out, could result in either a World Series championship or an MVP or both.

Acuña didn't want to experience any of that without them.

#92 - Your list actually got me interested in looking up other stat combinations. I've always enjoyed a blend of average and power (triple crown candidates often tend to be some of my favorite players), so here's the same concept but with batting average and homeruns (due to vastly different rules and/or season lengths, I didn't include the 19th century or the NeL in my search).

Post 1900 seasons that can't be matched or surpassed in both AVG and HR:

1901 Nap LaJoie - .426/14
1921 Babe Ruth - .378/59
1922 Rogers Hornsby - .401/42
1924 Rogers Hornsby - .424/25
1924 Babe Ruth - .378/46*
1925 Rogers Hornsby - .403/39
1927 Babe Ruth - .356/60
1941 Ted Williams - .406/37
2001 Barry Bonds - .328/73

* At first glance it may look like Ruth's 1921 eliminates his 1924 from the conversation with more homers and the same batting average, but Ruth actually hit .3778 in 1921 and an ever so slightly higher .3781 in 1924.

Hmmmm. Not a terribly interesting list, as it's dominated by 2 guys from 100 years ago. How about a post integration version? This one has more variety and is IMO more interesting:

Post integration seasons that can't be matched or surpassed in both AVG and HR:

1948 Stan Musial - .376/39
1956 Mickey Mantle - .353/52
1957 Ted Williams - .388/38
1980 George Brett - .390/24
1994 Tony Gwynn - .394/12
1997 Larry Walker - .366/49
2000 Todd Helton - .372/42
2001 Barry Bonds - .328/73
2002 Barry Bonds - .370/46

Sorry NHfan. Just got frustrated after looking at that for afew minutes. Please continue posting I need to work on my anger management skills

Booey you've got to do Ks and HRs

MLB Network - which is about to air LAD-ATL in most markets aka Mookie v Acuna - tells me that the most 30-30 players in a season in the wild card era is 4.

this year, Acuna is already there of course.

Witt needs 2 HR
Tucker needs 4 HR and 4 SB
J-Rod needs 6 HR
Lindor needs 6 HR and 5 SB
Carroll needs 7 HR

flip