Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, February 13, 2020

A.J. Hinch ‘not aware’ of any Astros buzzers - HoustonChronicle.com

I look forward to the death of this topic.

Jim Furtado Posted: February 13, 2020 at 07:02 AM | 94 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: a.j. hinch, astros, sign stealing

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Blastin Posted: February 13, 2020 at 08:32 AM (#5924093)
Then go tell the Astros to handle it better.
   2. Captain Supporter Posted: February 13, 2020 at 08:50 AM (#5924098)
Telling the full truth instead of a continuous stream of weasel words is the way to end it. Or maybe you believe the Jose Altuve's frantic exhortations to his teammates to not remove his shirt was because of his wife's modesty (and her extraordinarily prescient anticipation that they would want to remove it in the first place)?
   3. Jim Furtado Posted: February 13, 2020 at 09:20 AM (#5924109)
I'm just sick of the topic. The Astros have been penalized. The Red Sox may be, although rumors suggest a light slap on the wrist.

The whole matter was bungled by MLB. The whole matter absolves other teams even though there is plenty of smoke that stuff like this was widespread in the league. (We'll never know, and MLB wants it that way.)

The Astros haven't handled it well but if they all get up on stage, apologize profusely, and self-flagellate to prove their contrition, does it really make anything better?
   4. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 13, 2020 at 09:32 AM (#5924111)
Hinch is not aware of it until there is proof then suddenly he'll be very sorry.
   5. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 13, 2020 at 09:34 AM (#5924114)
At Astros FanFest in January, Altuve said the thought of his wearing a buzzer was “ridiculous” and “we all know someone made that up.” Josh Reddick and Alex Bregman also denied the team wore buzzers.


Lie lie lie. The hubris is really something.
   6. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 09:36 AM (#5924117)
On the bright side, this'll make it a lot easier to make Hinch persona non grata in baseball after evidence emerges that the Astros were, in fact, using buzzers. Which it inevitably will, since they obviously were.
   7. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 09:37 AM (#5924118)
The Astros haven't handled it well but if they all get up on stage, apologize profusely, and self-flagellate to prove their contrition, does it really make anything better?


Not as better as it should be, but it's better than nothing. It's inconvenient and irritating and maybe a little bit embarrassing for them, and there's nothing wrong with enjoying the schadenfreude from that.
   8. jmurph Posted: February 13, 2020 at 09:38 AM (#5924120)
I find it very odd that so many of you are just certain beyond a doubt that the buzzer system was in place, despite MLB specifically saying they looked into it and couldn't find anything. Sure, they could have bungled it, but you guys aren't just suggesting it possibly happened, you're absolutely certain it happened.
   9. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 13, 2020 at 09:51 AM (#5924126)
I'm not certain the buzzer system happened. But for Altuve to call it "ridiculous" when they've already been proven cheaters is total hubris and total bullshit.

They've basically put themselves in the same spot as Pete Rose. I'll believe absolutely anything because they're lying and untrustworthy cheaters.
   10. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: February 13, 2020 at 09:51 AM (#5924127)
I find it very odd that so many of you are just certain beyond a doubt that the buzzer system was in place

I don't accept the accusation as true but it is more difficult for me to take Altuve's explanation of the post home run celebration seriously. Maybe he had a different valid reason (though I don't know what that could be) but the offered one stretches credulity.

FWIW, I think the Josh Reddick stuff is nonsense.
   11. Lassus Posted: February 13, 2020 at 10:07 AM (#5924133)
Maybe he had a different valid reason (though I don't know what that could be)

You're going to laugh, but when wondering about this myself, I did consider the possibility (not altogether seriously) of hickeys from someone he was ####### who wasn't his wife.
   12. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM (#5924136)
I find it very odd that so many of you are just certain beyond a doubt that the buzzer system was in place, despite MLB specifically saying they looked into it and couldn't find anything. Sure, they could have bungled it, but you guys aren't just suggesting it possibly happened, you're absolutely certain it happened.


I don't think that MLB "bungled" it. I think that they're covering up the full extent of the cheating because they have a vested interest in covering up the full extent of the cheating (i.e. not devaluing the product in general and the World Series in particular).

There have been a bunch of rumors about the buzzers for a while now, the Astros' denials aren't worth anything, and the Altuve clip is just suspicious as all hell.
   13. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 10:27 AM (#5924139)
You're going to laugh, but when wondering about this myself, I did consider the possibility (not altogether seriously) of hickeys from someone he was ####### who wasn't his wife.

That occurred to me as well. Or he could have had a rash that he didn't want people to see. People can be vain / sensitive for a variety of reasons.

I mean, it definitely raises suspicions that there was a buzzer, but I don't think it's conclusive.
   14. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2020 at 10:30 AM (#5924144)
You're going to laugh, but when wondering about this myself, I did consider the possibility (not altogether seriously) of hickeys from someone he was ####### who wasn't his wife.
Have we ruled out the possibility of an embarrassing third nipple, or a butterfly tattoo on his lower back or something?
   15. reech Posted: February 13, 2020 at 10:36 AM (#5924145)
Given the world we live in today- and our political leaders, what is the incentive to tell the truth? Why would anyone not double down on lies until it is absolutely impossible to continue to do so?
   16. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2020 at 10:48 AM (#5924152)
Given the world we live in today- and our political leaders, what is the incentive to tell the truth? Why would anyone not double down on lies until it is absolutely impossible to continue to do so?
That's exactly it, and exactly why people want an apology so much (in this and many other situations). We're desperate for some sense of shame, truth, honesty, accountability, etc. in our society and public discourse. We know what we've lost, but we don't know how to get it back.
   17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:01 AM (#5924155)
That's exactly it, and exactly why people want an apology so much (in this and many other situations). We're desperate for some sense of shame, truth, honesty, accountability, etc. in our society and public discourse. We know what we've lost, but we don't know how to get it back.

Part of what we lost was the press willfully covering up for politicians so their lies and hypocrisy weren't visible.

The personal moral conduct of someone like LBJ or Warren Harding would be absolutely explosive if revealed (then or now) but the good ole boy press did the three monkey's act. Likewise Presidents of both parties engaged in all sort of foreign policy misadventures and abuses of power that never saw the light of day.
   18. Greg Pope Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:07 AM (#5924157)
People can be vain / sensitive for a variety of reasons.

Yeah, but you're thinking about that while running around the bases after a huge homerun? While possible, it seems unlikely.
   19. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:10 AM (#5924158)
All this time I was hoping Altuve was saying not to tear his jersey off because baseball players acting like a bunch of g##d### primitive savages tearing a teammates's jersey off is f###ing ridiculous.
   20. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:12 AM (#5924162)
baseball players acting like a bunch of g##d### primitive savages tearing a teammates's jersey off is f###ing ridiculous.
Also very much this.
   21. Blastin Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:16 AM (#5924163)
g##d### primitive savages


...what cultures are you referring to?
   22. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:23 AM (#5924165)
...at which point I should clarify that my "very much this" was in support only of the idea that tearing off jerseys is asinine, not the verbatim way that idea was expressed.
   23. SoSH U at work Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:27 AM (#5924167)
...what cultures are you referring to?


Spore.

   24. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:29 AM (#5924170)
Have we ruled out the possibility of an embarrassing third nipple


Or some other widely recognized witch's mark.
   25. Greg Pope Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:35 AM (#5924171)
Cross posting from the other thread which seems to be dying:

Let's say that one of the Astros isn't paying attention and does, in fact, rip off Altuve's jersey. The umpire sees a wire attached to his shoulder running down to a battery pack on his back. What happens? Does the umpire have the power to reverse the homer? Is there a formal protest with the game possibly getting replayed?
   26. Blastin Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:39 AM (#5924172)
not the verbatim way that idea was expressed.


I mean to address my comment to the original post anyway.
   27. SoSH U at work Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:43 AM (#5924173)
Let's say that one of the Astros isn't paying attention and does, in fact, rip off Altuve's jersey. The umpire sees a wire attached to his shoulder running down to a battery pack on his back. What happens? Does the umpire have the power to reverse the homer? Is there a formal protest with the game possibly getting replayed?


It's hard to say. The Brett case resulted in the out call being overturned by the American League, but that was just a matter of a legal substance being too far up on a bat, and the proper call (if discovered) would be to simply remove the bat from play.

In contrast, using a corked bat is an out, under Rule 6.03 (a)(5) - using an illegal bat.

I think the crew chief would probably rule him out under an expanded interpretation of Rule 6.03 (or some other rule that gives the umps some latitude), but I can't be certain. Either way, a protest would be filed.

   28. Mayor Blomberg Posted: February 13, 2020 at 11:56 AM (#5924180)
he personal moral conduct of someone like LBJ or Warren Harding would be absolutely explosive if revealed (then or now)


That ship has sailed.
   29. . Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:07 PM (#5924185)
That's exactly it, and exactly why people want an apology so much (in this and many other situations). We're desperate for some sense of shame, truth, honesty, accountability, etc. in our society and public discourse. We know what we've lost, but we don't know how to get it back.


The widespread rallying around Bill Clinton's perjuries certainly didn't do much in this spirit. Those things you mentioned aren't strong enough to overcome tribalism -- and big-time sports are one of the biggest sources of tribalism we have. That's one of the main reasons they're ultimately they're corrupting of the populace.
   30. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:24 PM (#5924194)
The widespread rallying around Bill Clinton's perjuries certainly didn't do much in this spirit.
Agreed - his handling of the Lewinsky affair definitely set an example for "lie about as much as you can possibly get away with at the time, and only tell the truth when you're caught dead to rights." Of course, now we've moved beyond even that last part.
   31. . Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:35 PM (#5924200)
And then he got away with it because his tribe of aged and aging Boomers rallied around him (*), but yeah we've moved beyond even that. The tribalization of the nation is a materially bigger strand in The Decline than when I first mentioned said Decline a few years back. The tribalization has accelerated massively in the past 3-4 years.

(*) "Clinton's penis," "Impeached for a blow job," etc. In retrospect, the Baby Boomer era was always going to have its denouement in that kind of utter farce.
   32. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:42 PM (#5924201)
I assume people will want to bring this back down a few levels to the Astros.
   33. . Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:43 PM (#5924202)
The Astros and their fans are a tribe. There's no chance in holy hell you're ever going to get the shame, truth, honesty, and accountability you mentioned. (*) You'll get far more rationalizations, justifications, and apologia.

(*) The way they're acculturated, I highly doubt the players and front office even feel any shame, or anything resembling shame.
   34. Lassus Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:44 PM (#5924203)
I assume people will want to bring this back down a few levels to the Astros.

- golf clap -

Thanks for nothing.
   35. flournoy Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:47 PM (#5924205)
Why would Altuve (or anyone) need some overriding justification for not wanting to have his clothes ripped off him on national television?
   36. . Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:48 PM (#5924206)
- golf clap -

Thanks for nothing.


If it's moral and ethical examplars you seek, you're looking entirely in the wrong place.

2017-19 basically fall in the baseball history timeline where 1994 does. Kinda sucks, but that's life.
   37. Lassus Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:50 PM (#5924209)
Thanks, Kreskin. What color am I thinking of?
   38. reech Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:51 PM (#5924210)

Why would Altuve (or anyone) need some overriding justification for not wanting to have his clothes ripped off him on national television?


Because sometimes a cigar isnt just a cigar-

   39. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2020 at 12:52 PM (#5924212)
Thanks for nothing.
Hey, there's nothing wrong with discussing how current events situate in broader social dynamics. I get that it carries a risk of spiraling into a tangent though.
   40. Astroenteritis Posted: February 13, 2020 at 01:01 PM (#5924214)
The Astros and their fans are a tribe.



This is true of every sports team. I'm pissed as hell the team was doing this. It was stupid, arrogant and unnecessary, but I can't make the people involved apologize, and even if MLB hit Minute Maid Park with a tactical nuke, folks would still be saying, "but you left their minor league stadiums intact!" I don't want the Astros doing this sh*t, but I'm not going to stop supporting the team.

And in a country with people who are OK with an incompetent president who brags about not reading, and whose supporters are proud of their own ignorance, I'm not surprised at all that accusations from twitter rumors become talking points.
   41. . Posted: February 13, 2020 at 01:03 PM (#5924215)
This is true of every sports team.


Of course.

And in a country with people who are OK with an incompetent president who brags about not reading, and whose supporters are proud of their own ignorance, I'm not surprised at all that accusations from twitter rumors become talking points.


Nah, Trump really doesn't have anything to do with this particular situation, though his election certainly exacerbated the tribalism. Trump being elected or holding the office isn't an excuse for anything Tribe Astros have said or done.

but I can't make the people involved apologize, and even if MLB hit Minute Maid Park with a tactical nuke, folks would still be saying, "but you left their minor league stadiums intact!"


Nah, that's tribal too, akin to "If we let them have gun background checks, three months later they'll be going door to door confiscating everyone's guns." Paranoia about what non-tribe members might do to the tribe is a quintessentially tribal impulse.
   42. Blastin Posted: February 13, 2020 at 01:20 PM (#5924217)
That was a fair response, Astros fan.
   43. QLE Posted: February 13, 2020 at 01:35 PM (#5924224)
Part of what we lost was the press willfully covering up for politicians so their lies and hypocrisy weren't visible.

The personal moral conduct of someone like LBJ or Warren Harding would be absolutely explosive if revealed (then or now) but the good ole boy press did the three monkey's act. Likewise Presidents of both parties engaged in all sort of foreign policy misadventures and abuses of power that never saw the light of day.


Very late, I admit, but I'd also argue that part of the issue relates to gaps in our historical memory- political figures willing to make up all sorts of nonsense to aid themselves have long been with us (William Hale Thompson and James Michael Curley both feel rather contemporary in certain regards), as are electorates who for various reasons enable them (as the continued political success of Thompson and especially Curley demonstrate), but the tendency over time tends to be for these sorts of figures to be either forgotten or sentimentalized, which leads to the assumption that conditions were better than they actually were.
   44. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 01:46 PM (#5924227)
...what cultures are you referring to?

Take your pick. The Mongols, the Aztecs, the Maori, the Mayans, really any decidedly non-African culture that engaged in ritualistic human sacrifice and/or cannibalism. I can't imagine their victims volunteered to be eaten or lined up to throw themselves off buildings, into fire pits, etc.
   45. Howie Menckel Posted: February 13, 2020 at 02:06 PM (#5924233)
learned on Twitter that the 1898 Baltimore Orioles - who finished second in the NL (yes, NL) that year - still own the record for most times hit by a pitch. most sources list 148, but the BB-ref page has 160.

SS HOFer Hughie Jennings led with 46, 1B Dan McGann had 39, 3B HOFer John McGraw had 19, C Boileryard Clarke managed 15 in a half-season of PAs, and 2B Gene DeMontreville had 10.

that was the 5th straight year that Hughie led the category, and he remains MLB's career leader (his 287 is 2 more than Craig Biggio).

OF HOFer Wee Willie Keeler apparently really was "wee" - getting hit only 3 times in 601 PA as Jennings' teammate in 1898.

fun fact: "During one game, Jennings was hit in the head by a pitch from Amos Rusie in the 3rd inning, but managed to finish the game. As soon as the game ended, Jennings collapsed and was unconscious for three days."


   46. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2020 at 02:13 PM (#5924234)
fun fact: "During one game, Jennings was hit in the head by a pitch from Amos Rusie in the 3rd inning, but managed to finish the game. As soon as the game ended, Jennings collapsed and was unconscious for three days."
Yeah, that probably didn't really happen quite like that.
   47. Sunday silence Posted: February 13, 2020 at 02:21 PM (#5924235)
Im going to continue hammer away at the concept that this story isnt going away anytime soon and it might in fact be the biggest scandal since Blacksox and maybe bigger.

Reason number whatever, is that there really is no sense of closure to any of this. THere's seems clearly some sort of cheating went on. But...

To what extent? how many teams and how many years? I think with any scandal people want to know all the gory details. Maybe that makes them feel better in some way?

The Astros are guilty of something and yet the players have not been punished and have not acknowledged much or any of this. One can clearly feel the frustration on the part of fans, the "mob", that simply hasnt had their pound of flesh extracted. i feel it too, its very agitating to have douches like Bregman being smarmy about it.

By the way; DId anything happen at the Presser this morning?
   48. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 13, 2020 at 02:25 PM (#5924236)
Seems like an appropriate punishment would be to force the Astros players to replicate the buzzing scheme in 2020, but at, say, ten times the voltage.
   49. PreservedFish Posted: February 13, 2020 at 02:33 PM (#5924240)
Take your pick. The Mongols, the Aztecs, the Maori, the Mayans, really any decidedly non-African culture that engaged in ritualistic human sacrifice and/or cannibalism. I can't imagine their victims volunteered to be eaten or lined up to throw themselves off buildings, into fire pits, etc.

Did Africa not have cannibals and savages?
   50. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 13, 2020 at 02:50 PM (#5924245)
Highlights from today's Astros press conference on the cheating scandal.

Astros owner Jim Crane: "Our opinion is that this didn't impact the game." 55 seconds later, "I didn't say it didn't impact the game."

Crane: "I don't think I should be held accountable."

Marly Rivera, ESPN: "So then what are you guys apologizing for?"
Crane: "We're apologizing because we broke the rules."

Altuve and Bregman spoke for less than a minute and a half, combined.

Bergman: "We as a team are totally focused on moving forward to the 2020 season."

Altuve: "We had a great team meeting last night. And I want to say that the whole Astros organization and the team feel bad about what happened in 2017."



Check out the chyron on KTLA Los Angeles' coverage of the Mistakes Were Made press conference:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQrLyjTUcAA5Ein?format=jpg&name=medium


David Sampson, CBS Sports: "Whoever is the PR team who prepared the Astros, I almost would say get your money back from your graduate degree."
   51. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 02:57 PM (#5924249)
Those things you mentioned aren't strong enough to overcome tribalism -- and big-time sports are one of the biggest sources of tribalism we have.


Sports are an outlet for tribalism, but not a source -- it existed (in forms just as powerful) prior to organized sporting activity. It just seems to be part of human nature (though not to the extent that we can't work to overcome it).
   52. . Posted: February 13, 2020 at 02:58 PM (#5924250)
Astros owner Jim Crane: "Our opinion is that this didn't impact the game."


Take their title away now.
   53. Khrushin it bro Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:07 PM (#5924254)
   54. jmurph Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:16 PM (#5924257)
Seems like the decision to not punish the players is going to be the one thing the league definitely regrets in all this. People are going to seize on that for years, I think.
   55. . Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:19 PM (#5924258)
Sports are an outlet for tribalism, but not a source -- it existed (in forms just as powerful) prior to organized sporting activity. It just seems to be part of human nature (though not to the extent that we can't work to overcome it).


Oh, absolutely. "Encouragements to tribalism" would have been better than "sources of tribalism."
   56. Astroenteritis Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:21 PM (#5924259)
Nah, Trump really doesn't have anything to do with this particular situation, though his election certainly exacerbated the tribalism. Trump being elected or holding the office isn't an excuse for anything Tribe Astros have said or done.


Well, you totally missed the point of what I was saying there, because I certainly wouldn't offer up anything Trump and his minions do as justification for anything. The disinformation and rumors on twitter, whether from "outraged baseball fans" or "Russian trolls", is soaked up by the gullible, and repeated as fact.
   57. PreservedFish Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:25 PM (#5924261)
Oh, absolutely. "Encouragements to tribalism" would have been better than "sources of tribalism."


I wonder if there's an argument that sports can do good by providing a (usually) harmless outlet for man's inherent drive towards tribalism.
   58. JJ1986 Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:31 PM (#5924264)
Do the Astros still have the same PR team which slandered a reporter after the Taubman story broke?
   59. jmurph Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:32 PM (#5924265)
I wonder if there's an argument that sports can do good by providing a (usually) harmless outlet for man's inherent drive towards tribalism.

This doesn't really answer that question but How Soccer (or football, depending on the version) Explains the World is a good read on the connections between those things.
   60. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:32 PM (#5924266)
Sports are an outlet for tribalism, but not a source -- it existed (in forms just as powerful) prior to organized sporting activity. It just seems to be part of human nature (though not to the extent that we can't work to overcome it).

Tribalism is not purely negative. Caring more about people who are closer to you leads to a lot more helping behavior than purely atomized individuals. A huge percentage of charity and altruistic behavior is "tribal" in one way or another.
   61. Howie Menckel Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:38 PM (#5924270)
Yeah, that probably didn't really happen quite like that.

that's why I didn't even bother listing the source from that blurb on wiki
#entertainmentpurposesonly
   62. Howie Menckel Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:40 PM (#5924272)
David Sampson, CBS Sports: "Whoever is the PR team who prepared the Astros, I almost would say get your money back from your graduate degree."

the big Twitter meme is a GIF of the nutty guy in the air traffic control tower in the movie Airplane, listed as "Astros new PR guy."
   63. PepTech Posted: February 13, 2020 at 03:47 PM (#5924273)
I can't imagine their victims volunteered to be eaten or lined up to throw themselves off buildings, into fire pits, etc.
I had a high school teacher who used this as an example of relativism. Suppose your belief was that if you were consumed by your tribesman, you would become immortal; your essence would live on, that sort of thing. This belief granted your soul peace, or whatever.

And on the flip side, the highest compliment one could pay one's enemy was to take them into yourself, thereby absorbing their strength, skill, whatever made them a worthy adversary.

   64. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 04:21 PM (#5924278)
I had a high school teacher who used this as an example of relativism. Suppose your belief was that if you were consumed by your tribesman, you would become immortal; your essence would live on, that sort of thing. This belief granted your soul peace, or whatever.

And on the flip side, the highest compliment one could pay one's enemy was to take them into yourself, thereby absorbing their strength, skill, whatever made them a worthy adversary.


Evolution would probably weed those people out pretty quick.
   65. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 04:34 PM (#5924281)
Astros owner Jim Crane: "Our opinion is that this didn't impact the game."


If they didn't think that it impacted the game, then why did they do it? Just for the lulz?
   66. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 04:36 PM (#5924282)
Evolution would probably weed those people out pretty quick.


Unless it works, in which case they'd have a huge advantage. Risk versus reward.

I don't think that's ever been rigorously tested in a clinical setting, so who knows?
   67. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 04:37 PM (#5924283)
David Sampson, CBS Sports: "Whoever is the PR team who prepared the Astros, I almost would say get your money back from your graduate degree."

Really, is there a better person than David Samson in all of sports to cover a scandal involving Jose Altuve? It's a rare day David gets to leave his booster step and old phone books at home. Funny guys, those CBS execs.
   68. PepTech Posted: February 13, 2020 at 04:46 PM (#5924284)
It amuses me that I am essentially arguing for cannibalism, while one of history's greatest monsters has the converse.
   69. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: February 13, 2020 at 04:47 PM (#5924287)
while one of history's greatest monsters has the converse.


Surely not.

"Take, eat: this is my body"
   70. PreservedFish Posted: February 13, 2020 at 04:51 PM (#5924289)
Evolution would probably weed those people out pretty quick.


Snapper, you know I love you, but I find this comment funny coming a fellow that is quite vocal about his habit of consuming supernatural human flesh every Sunday morning.

As far as evolution goes, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some scholars have already argued that the grand scale of human sacrifice in Aztec Mexico was in fact a response to resource scarcity (or something like that). There are many examples across the globe of infanticide, senicide, and organized suicide missions that appear to 'make sense' for small cultures that are under ecological pressure, need to move quickly as nomads, and so on. And the animal kingdom is disgustingly rife with cannibalism, so it's obviously not a barrier to 'survival of the fittest,' and may indeed serve an evolutionary role of some sort.

edit > gef beats me to it.
   71. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 04:54 PM (#5924290)
Snapper, you know I love you, but I find this comment funny coming a fellow that is quite vocal about his habit of consuming supernatural human flesh every Sunday morning.

One's miraculous, the other's mundane. No conflict.

As far as evolution goes, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some scholars have already argued that the grand scale of human sacrifice in Aztec Mexico was in fact a response to resource scarcity (or something like that). There are many examples across the globe of infanticide, senicide, and organized suicide missions that appear to 'make sense' for small cultures that are under ecological pressure, need to move quickly as nomads, and so on. And the animal kingdom is disgustingly rife with cannibalism, so it's obviously not a barrier to 'survival of the fittest,' and may indeed serve an evolutionary role of some sort.

Those are scams by the smart and powerful to get the poor schmucks to go along with being the one's sacrificed. No amount of evolutionary pressure causes it to make sense for the individual. The fittest who survive are the ones who don't get sacrificed.
   72. PreservedFish Posted: February 13, 2020 at 04:57 PM (#5924294)
The communion wafer is less likely to carry Kuru, that's for sure.
   73. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: February 13, 2020 at 05:08 PM (#5924300)
The communion wafer is less likely to carry Kuru, that's for sure.


There's a very popular cat treat called Churu; I give it to mine. I find the name ... a tad disconcerting.
   74. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 13, 2020 at 06:22 PM (#5924315)
   75. The Duke Posted: February 13, 2020 at 06:31 PM (#5924316)
So the press conference was a circus yet again. Most of this very bad response seems less like lack of preparedness and more like trying not to say anything that wasn’t in the MLB report. And that to me means that there is a lot more to this story which is either known by MLB or not yet known by MLB.
   76. ReggieThomasLives Posted: February 13, 2020 at 08:51 PM (#5924340)
I’m just glad that AJ was able to absolutely positively for sure confirm that no buzzers were used, that his little second baseman is apparently just a very, very weird dude.
   77. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 13, 2020 at 09:57 PM (#5924355)
I’m just glad that AJ was able to absolutely positively for sure confirm that no buzzers were used, that his little second baseman is apparently just a very, very weird dude.

To his knowledge.
   78. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: February 14, 2020 at 12:58 AM (#5924370)
I look forward to the death of this topic.


Linking to another story about it might not be an optimal way to participate in killing it.

As far as the Red Sox just getting a wrist-slap, perhaps. I have also seen spec to the effect that they are going to get hammered even harder than Houston was.
   79. QLE Posted: February 14, 2020 at 01:30 AM (#5924373)
Rather than clog the Newsblog with multiple articles on the same event, I might as well share some comments here:

Some thoughts by the doyen of Hall of Fame voting

A public relations expert offers their opinion on what the Astros are doing wrong

So, what do the players think about this?
   80. KronicFatigue Posted: February 14, 2020 at 07:09 AM (#5924377)
The hickey theory or modesty excuse doesn't explain why he runs into the locker room and changes shirt.
   81. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 14, 2020 at 09:19 AM (#5924388)
The hickey theory or modesty excuse doesn't explain why he runs into the locker room and changes shirt.

Why not? If he doesn't want to be seen with his shirt off, but he wants to change shirts, doesn't he have to go somewhere to change?

Note, I am not saying this theory is likely to be true.
   82. JJ1986 Posted: February 14, 2020 at 09:48 AM (#5924395)
If he was worried about being caught and yet had to take the buzzer off quickly, why would he also change shirts? Wouldn't that just be suspicious?
   83. KronicFatigue Posted: February 14, 2020 at 10:45 AM (#5924406)
Why not? If he doesn't want to be seen with his shirt off, but he wants to change shirts, doesn't he have to go somewhere to change?


Okay, now I'm confused. Yesterday I saw clips that had him running to the clubhouse immediately after the homer but that may have been doctored (now I'm seeing video where he celebrates for a time before going in there). My original thinking was that it was odd that he'd be so quick to leave his celebrating teammates to change.
   84. PreservedFish Posted: February 14, 2020 at 10:52 AM (#5924407)
Anyone can want to change shirts for any number of reasons. Maybe he went to go take a leak in the clubhouse and thought, hey, I'm here, maybe I'll change shirts now. The idea that this is proof of cheating is absurd.

As for him not wanting the guys to tear his jersey off, come on. Like that needs a defense. Maybe he, uh, doesn't want a bunch of smelly dudes tearing his jersey off.
   85. Howie Menckel Posted: February 14, 2020 at 12:26 PM (#5924423)
Pedro Gomez
@pedrogomezESPN
At @Dodgers
camp this morning and several players have been very pointed in their opinion on the @Astros
.
Bellinger: Crane was “weak.” Altuve stole MVP award from Judge. Astros didn’t stop cheating in 2018 and 2019.
12:02 PM · Feb 14, 2020

Alden Gonzalez
@Alden_Gonzalez
On Altuve not wanting jersey ripped: “I don’t know what human hits a walk-off HR against Aroldis Chapman to send your team to the WS,” Bellinger said, “and 1, has the thought to say, ‘Don’t rip my jersey off.’ But 2, go into the tunnel, change your shirt, and then come out ...”
11:33 AM · Feb 14, 2020
   86. Lassus Posted: February 14, 2020 at 12:33 PM (#5924426)
As for him not wanting the guys to tear his jersey off, come on. Like that needs a defense. Maybe he, uh, doesn't want a bunch of smelly dudes tearing his jersey off.

It's also possible that he wanted it un-ruined as a memento or possible sale. (And believe it or not, I do still think the buzzer is also possible. But I need more to be convinced.)


Bellinger: Crane was “weak.”

That's putting it quite nicely. He was pathetic.
   87. Howie Menckel Posted: February 14, 2020 at 12:42 PM (#5924429)
Alden Gonzalez
@Alden_Gonzalez
·
1h
Cody Bellinger, on the Astros: "I lost respect for those guys. I would say everyone in the Show, in the big leagues, lost respect for those guys."
   88. PreservedFish Posted: February 14, 2020 at 12:47 PM (#5924430)
1h
Cody Bellinger, on the Astros: "I lost respect for those guys. I would say everyone in the Show, in the big leagues, lost respect for those guys."


Cue Dodgers cheating scandal in 3, 2, 1...
   89. jmurph Posted: February 14, 2020 at 01:08 PM (#5924432)
The Dodgers just had some mild sexual assault, nothing serious like unexplained shirt-changing.
   90. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 14, 2020 at 06:38 PM (#5924529)
Revisiting this October 2019 tweet that reads rather differently lately:


Alex Rodriguez @AROD

To recap Severino's first inning:

36 pitches
18 fastballs
18 secondary pitches
11 swings on fastballs
5 swings on off-speed pitches, no misses
No chases on off-speed pitches.

If you look at Astros' hitters body language, this screams tipping.



Among other things.
   91. Mayor Blomberg Posted: February 14, 2020 at 06:58 PM (#5924532)
It's also possible that he wanted it un-ruined as a memento or possible sale.


This is one case where a bit of "ruin" would not diminish the value, sentimental or otherwise, one iota.
   92. Lassus Posted: February 15, 2020 at 06:12 AM (#5924560)
That really doesn't track and also requires psychic powers.
   93. MuttsIdolCochrane Posted: February 15, 2020 at 06:54 AM (#5924561)
Again, if everything Altuve did was innocent the why did he LIE about the reason (shy my ass - a proven LIE according to numerous pictures and videos)? Why?
   94. Lassus Posted: February 15, 2020 at 08:22 AM (#5924570)
If you're also psychic, why are you asking?

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
JPWF13
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogPosnanski: Baseball 100 Rules
(701 - 7:35pm, Feb 23)
Last: cookiedabookie

NewsblogFans heckling Astros spring opener get signs stolen
(6 - 7:26pm, Feb 23)
Last: Adam Starblind

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread 2020
(1420 - 7:05pm, Feb 23)
Last: Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb

NewsblogMLB was told about the Astros’ system years ago and did nothing
(14 - 5:16pm, Feb 23)
Last: Ron J

NewsblogStark: How Francisco Lindor reminds us that baseball is broken – The Athletic
(20 - 5:00pm, Feb 23)
Last: Ron J

NewsblogTop pick Rutschman not awed in 1st Orioles’ big league camp
(4 - 4:46pm, Feb 23)
Last: Ron J

NewsblogRemember Rusney Castillo? He'll make $14 million in Triple-A, then finally become a free agent
(19 - 4:35pm, Feb 23)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 2-21-2020
(13 - 4:07pm, Feb 23)
Last: Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it

NewsblogAstros scandal: Josh Reddick says he and his teammates have received death threats
(15 - 2:55pm, Feb 23)
Last: Best Dressed Chicken in Town

NewsblogPhillies will unveil a new-look Phanatic on Sunday
(10 - 2:20pm, Feb 23)
Last: puck

NewsblogOT - Soccer Thread - January, 2020
(645 - 12:54pm, Feb 23)
Last: AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther

NewsblogMLB Rumors: Ex-Red Sox pitcher Daniel Bard joins Rockies amid comeback attempt
(6 - 12:36pm, Feb 23)
Last: Fernigal McGunnigle

NewsblogBrandon Morrow sidelined with upper chest strain, no timetable for return
(1 - 11:54am, Feb 23)
Last: Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago

NewsblogBlue Jays games will be blacked out on MLB.TV in Canada
(1 - 10:05am, Feb 23)
Last: winnipegwhip

NewsblogHamels rejoins Braves, shoulder still healing
(2 - 9:41am, Feb 23)
Last: Fernigal McGunnigle

Page rendered in 0.6024 seconds
46 querie(s) executed