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Monday, September 14, 2020

Angels’ Albert Pujols hits 660th career home run, ties Willie Mays for 5th on all-time list

Albert Pujols hit his 660th career homer Sunday, tying the Los Angeles Angels slugger for fifth on the all-time list with Willie Mays.

With the Angels trailing 3-2, Pujols launched a fastball from Colorado Rockies reliever Carlos Estevez into the empty seats in left field at Coors Field for a two-run drive in the eighth inning.

He was eagerly greeted by his teammates following his first homer since Aug. 4.

“I was just telling them, ‘Finally, I hit one in the air,’‘’ Pujols cracked.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 14, 2020 at 09:16 AM | 54 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. McCoy Posted: September 14, 2020 at 10:15 AM (#5976291)
I don't see him catching anyone else
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 14, 2020 at 10:27 AM (#5976294)
I think his poor ending has really numbed me to how amazing he was to start his career. Through age 31 he had a career 1.037 OPS!!!! That is insane.
   3. Howie Menckel Posted: September 14, 2020 at 10:40 AM (#5976296)
I saw Pujols a week or two ago flailing away trying for this tie.

ironically, there is a massive overstatement about Mays and overstaying his career welcome.

in reality, he got off to a slow start at age 41 in 1972 - 79 OPS+ in 67 PA - and then got traded to the Mets and he raked to a 145 OPS+ (his career total is 156) in 242 PA.

in 1973, Mays finally did suck - 81 OPS+ in 239 PA and not pretty in the World Series, and then he retired.

Pujols, meanwhile, is working on a string of OPS+s of 80, 91, 93, and now 79 at age 40.

somebody throw in the towel and stop the fight/madness already on this rotting corpse of a career.

a guy who doesn't even play the field and had his last good (not great, 138 OPS+) season in 2012.

he established himself as a clear first-ballot Hall of Famer based on his incredible prime before that. there is no zeroth-ballot, and he's fortunate that you can't play yourself OUT of the Hall of Fame.

"Let me ask you one question

Is your money that good"
   4. Jaack Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:00 AM (#5976301)
What's remarkable isn't the speed of his collapse, but the consistency of it. Since 2009 he's lost a little bit of everything, every year. No revivals, not dead cat bounces, just worse and worse.

I had held out for a while that he might have one nice season left in his bat, but he's been absolute toast for six seasons now.
   5. bunyon Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:08 AM (#5976304)
I don't think it's about money. Or just about money. Baseball is fun to play. Once you retire from MLB, that's it, it's over. You're just a rich guy (and, broadly speaking, not that rich (as rich guys go). If someone will let you play baseball everyday, I say you do it. That's true for guys who were never better than scrubs and all time greats. To me, a poor ending doesn't tarnish, at all, how great he used to be. We all get old.

Now, if I were an Angels fan, I might object to my team paying carts of money to a guy to suck. But that's a different argument.
   6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:09 AM (#5976305)
Really, that contract has enabled him to chase some of these personal goals. I would guess he would have a tough time getting contracts had he been a free agent the last few seasons.
   7. Ron J Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:22 AM (#5976308)
#5 Pretty sure Rickey! still sends out his resume.

And #6 Not sure at what point he wouldn't have been offered a one year contract if he'd been on the market. I suspect he'd have gotten an offer after 2017 but not after 2018.
   8. Rally Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:22 AM (#5976309)
No revivals, not dead cat bounces, just worse and worse.


Not quite true. He bottomed out in 2017 (80 OPS+, -1.9 WAR) and since then has improved to merely replacement level.
   9. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:25 AM (#5976310)
Not quite true. He bottomed out in 2017 (80 OPS+, -1.9 WAR) and since then has improved to merely replacement level.


I, for one, wish I could have topped out as replacement level.
   10. Rally Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:28 AM (#5976311)
Now, if I were an Angels fan, I might object to my team paying carts of money to a guy to suck. But that's a different argument.


Given the salary structure where players play their first 6.99 seasons or whatever at way less than market rates, I don't begrudge any player for collecting what's owed to them on guaranteed contracts. The Angels have to pay him, fine.

What I object to is continuing to play him. Instead they should keep running out a young, promising bat until they find one that can stick. They had Ji-Man Choi a few years back. He didn't hit in his first shot at the big leagues, but turned into a useful player for Tampa Bay.
   11. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:29 AM (#5976312)
Now, if I were an Angels fan, I might object to my team paying carts of money to a guy to suck.


I know a lot of Angels fans do, but I'm a little bit more gracious on this particular contract. I don't know how much to believe that Pujols' contract was tied to the Angels Fox Sports broadcast deal that was signed the same offseason, but I've heard it enough and it seems plausible enough, that I can buy it. Also, while the signs were there his last season in St. Louis, I think the Angels could have reasonably expected a little bit more production from Pujols in his twilight years. That he went down so far and didn't have a few 2 WAR years in his late 30's (if those were his late 30's) is a bit of bad luck for an all-time great player. He's also been a good mentor and the team has realized some additional support as he hits milestones.

The contract is bad, but it's not the worst contract the Angels have given out (or traded for) over the last dozen years, all things considered.
   12. Itchy Row Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:44 AM (#5976315)
As an Angel, Pujols has basically hit like Todd Frazier. Pujols has a .313 OBP/.449 SLG/109 OPS+/215 HR in 4925 PA since he joined LA of A in 2012. Frazier has .320/.449/108/217 in 4880 PA since he debuted with 41 games in 2011.
   13. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:45 AM (#5976316)
He's also "officially" second in the RBI list, because Ruth's RBI before 1920 are not official.
   14. Howie Menckel Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:56 AM (#5976318)
Ruth's RBI before 1920 are not official.

who cares about "official?"

we know how many RBI he had in his career, and that works for me.

if "official" is too stupid to go by, oh, how many RBI he had in his career, then it's useless and should be ignored - or mocked, either one.
   15. Mefisto Posted: September 14, 2020 at 12:11 PM (#5976322)
What I object to is continuing to play him. Instead they should keep running out a young, promising bat until they find one that can stick.


Yeah, it's as if nobody in the organization understands "sunk costs".
   16. McCoy Posted: September 14, 2020 at 12:46 PM (#5976332)
Well, lots of people out here don't either.
   17. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 14, 2020 at 01:14 PM (#5976340)
Albert Pujols hit his 660th career homer Sunday, tying the Los Angeles Angels slugger for fifth on the all-time list with Willie Mays.
Probably pass him next season, eh?
   18. Dingbat_Charlie Posted: September 14, 2020 at 01:14 PM (#5976341)
I hope Ward, Walsh and Thaiss get a legit chance. I'm rooting for Ward to figure out ML pitching, then move back to C full time or in a utility role. That seems possible with Maddon pushing the buttons.
   19. phredbird Posted: September 14, 2020 at 04:43 PM (#5976382)

i was really sad to see him leave StL after 2011, but in hindsight i am kind of relieved.

on the last day of the regular season that year, he came up to bat a couple of times needing a hit to make .300 and an RBI to crack 100, both of which would have kept him on his streak of 30/.300/100 for every full year of his career. when he didn't make it, it felt like some kind of continental shift in my baseball life. i was very conflicted about the cards keeping him. i didn't like what i saw that year.

seeing what's happened to him since has saddened me even more. i'm glad he's making a ton of money and gets to play as much as he wants, but man. it's been hard to watch after what came before.
   20. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: September 14, 2020 at 04:52 PM (#5976384)
I think the meme of Willie Mays in a Mets uniform as "aging superstar hanging on too long" is a little unfair to Mays, and *is* fair for Pujols:

In almost 5000 PAs as an Angle, his OPS+ is 109.

Between ages 23 and 41, Willie Mays' lowest OPS+ in a season was 124.
   21. Mefisto Posted: September 14, 2020 at 05:05 PM (#5976386)
But what about his time as a Jute?
   22. Mefisto Posted: September 14, 2020 at 05:09 PM (#5976387)
More seriously, for the Mets in 1972 Mays had an OPS+ of 145 in 195 AB. It was only in 1973, and then in 209 AB, that he fell off a cliff (OPS+ of 81).
   23. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: September 14, 2020 at 05:17 PM (#5976388)
What contributes to the Mays thing is that he looks SO wrong in a Mets uniform. Even though he wasn't bad until the very end, we all know that players often find new homes towards the end, and when Mays left the Giants it signaled that the end is near, even if it wasn't immediate.
   24. Mefisto Posted: September 14, 2020 at 05:41 PM (#5976392)
At the time, people saw it more as "Mays going back to NY". But yeah, the mere fact that the Giants let him go was a sign, though Horace Stoneham was pretty near bankrupt at that point and money probably affected the move.
   25. Walt Davis Posted: September 14, 2020 at 06:17 PM (#5976399)
Turns out I'm old, sentimental and forgetful enough to still shake my head that 660 is only good for 5th these days (and soon 6th).

As to Albert -- leaving aside whether he should retire for his own dignity, it's really the team that has to take the lead in these situations. You approach the player, you have that tough conversation, you explain that the way you'd like to handle it is to have Albert Pujols day very soon, the alternative is that unfortunately you have to cut him which would only be embarrassing.

Of course covid wiped out any potential Albert Pujols day for this season but obviously that conversation should have taken place in the middle of last season if not earlier. Now this offseason you ask him whether he'd prefer to retire a Cardinal or an Angel or if he'd prefer being cut and suffer the indignity of not getting an invite from anybody or going through the motions of spring training with the ... Marlins? Rangers?

Detroit is in an even worse spot with 3/$94 owed to Miggy.

a guy who doesn't even play the field

This isn't correct. Last year 98 starts at 1B, 29 at DH; this year 24 at 1B, 6 at DH. DRS still rates him average or better at 1B; TZ hated him last year, likes him this year. Statcast has him average in both seasons and that's comped to an average IF, not average 1B (although statcast doesn't see much difference among the IF positions oddly).
   26. Buck Coats Posted: September 14, 2020 at 07:51 PM (#5976408)
Now this offseason you ask him whether he'd prefer to retire a Cardinal or an Angel or if he'd prefer being cut and suffer the indignity of not getting an invite from anybody or going through the motions of spring training with the ... Marlins? Rangers?


I assume his answer would be "I'd prefer you pay me all the money we agreed to."
   27. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 14, 2020 at 08:04 PM (#5976410)
Paying Pujols for 2021 is a given. The only question is whether the Angels are ready to move on, and give the ‘A-Rod 2016’ treatment to Pujols.
   28. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: September 14, 2020 at 08:09 PM (#5976412)
then got traded to the Mets and he raked to a 145 OPS+

He hardly "raked." Batted .267 and slugged .446. He drew a ####-ton of walks.


He's also "officially" second in the RBI list, because Ruth's RBI before 1920 are not official

What drives me nuts is that YES - the Yankee Entertainment and Sports Network - repeats this nonsense on their telecasts. Completely unquestioningly, they just regurgitate MLB's lies.
   29. Rally Posted: September 14, 2020 at 08:16 PM (#5976414)
Willie raked in 72. That’s a .446 SLG in a league that slugs .365, in a pitcher’s park.
   30. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: September 14, 2020 at 08:21 PM (#5976416)
Didn't realize league SLG was so low. Still doesn't feel like the right word, but I'll concede.
   31. caspian88 Posted: September 14, 2020 at 08:33 PM (#5976417)
Bobby Bonds had a .446 SLG in the 1972 NL, finishing 19th in the league.
   32. Hank Gillette Posted: September 14, 2020 at 11:19 PM (#5976440)
I don't see him catching anyone else


As long as it took him to get this home run, I’m not sure it is a given that he will pass Mays.
   33. Walt Davis Posted: September 15, 2020 at 12:39 AM (#5976448)
I assume his answer would be "I'd prefer you pay me all the money we agreed to."

That's a given and none of the options I mentioned have any impact on how much money he will be paid. The Angels can require him to show up to collect a paycheck or the Angels can have enough sense to not require that. If the latter, it's simply a question of whether that is done with "dignity" or not.

That said, such an arrangement would, if it suited the Angels, probably have a financial arrangement as well -- in the "we owe you $30 plus 10/$10 but if it's OK with you, we'd rather pay that out as $10 M now and $3 M per year for 10 years."** To which of course Albert might say "with interest of course" to which the Angels might reply "really? we're going to quibble over NPV now?" but I leave that to the parties involved.

** Or maybe they'd rather pay $35 this offseason and none going forward ... and Albert might say "really? we're going to quibble over NPV now?"

   34. Howie Menckel Posted: September 15, 2020 at 01:10 AM (#5976449)
"a guy who doesn't even play the field"

"This isn't correct."

point conceded

................

30. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: September 14, 2020 at 08:21 PM (#5976416)
"Didn't realize league SLG was so low. Still doesn't feel like ["raked" is] the right word, but I'll concede."

I will concede that I like "raked" for anyone over 140 OPS+ - no matter how many walks they get.

Brandon Nimmo has a 128 career OPS+ on a .255 AVG, with a .387 OBP and .441 SLG.

he walks a LOT - and he sprints down to first base with a goofy smile every time.

I'd say he doesn't quite match the efforts of Pete "Charlie Hustle" Rose - but he sure seems to try.

   35. BrianBrianson Posted: September 15, 2020 at 01:22 AM (#5976450)
He's on pace for 1 WAR/162 ... I'd turn up at the ballpark like that if they'd let me. even for the minimum.
   36. TomH Posted: September 15, 2020 at 06:57 AM (#5976455)
Clapper #17, bravo
   37. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: September 15, 2020 at 08:59 AM (#5976460)
Pujols actually plays very well for a 65-year-old man.
   38. Darren Posted: September 15, 2020 at 01:31 PM (#5976509)
Every year I hope he finds a way to make some adjustment and just rake again for one more year. Alas, doesn't seem to be in the cards.

Two other things:

--It's an interesting question about whether the Angels should have cut bait by now. The money is gone and Pujols has settled in as a reliably replacement-level player. You're going to have some of those on your roster, why not one who's passing milestones and seems to be a really good guy? (I don't follow LAA closely, so maybe I'm wrong about that.)

--Do the Angels finally cut him after this year? He's not getting to any other major milestones and they could stand to give some other guys a chance.
   39. giannis Posted: September 15, 2020 at 01:58 PM (#5976516)
Over the last 5 years, Albert Pujols, the slowest player in MLB, is 12 for 12 on stolen base attempts, and that makes me smile.
   40. Rally Posted: September 15, 2020 at 02:31 PM (#5976524)
Me too, he's 30 for 36 in his Angel career. He certainly is a smart base runner, and knows what he can and can't do.

But I would have cut bait a few years back. The milestones are tough to celebrate coming from a below average player on a bad team. I feel like every year Pujols gives us a replacement level output (actually a tick above from 2018-20, but just a tick) he's doing the best that can be hoped for out of him. Seems like at any point his body is ready to break down and he's going to be hurting the team.

They need to give more playing time to guys like Walsh or Thaiss, or somebody else until they actually find a good player. Playing Pujols is preventing that experimental process. A bad team needs to take chances on young(er) unproven players if they don't have someone who is actually good at the spot.
   41. Rally Posted: September 15, 2020 at 02:35 PM (#5976525)
I am 10 years older than Albert and not only can I outrun him, he isn't even close to my speed. And I've dealt with plantar fasciitis too.

Thanks to MLB for sprint speed and especially time to first on the Statcast pages. I'm not fast anymore but can run to first as fast as your garden variety backup catcher.
   42. GregD Posted: September 15, 2020 at 04:36 PM (#5976559)
--Do the Angels finally cut him after this year? He's not getting to any other major milestones and they could stand to give some other guys a chance.
Possibly but my guess is no one with a guaranteed contract is getting cut until it's clear MLB will play a full season. Isn't the contract language such that if they cut him they pay him 100% next year, no matter what. Whereas if he remains on a roster, they only pay him the proportion of the season that gets played?

I'm not optimistic we'll get 162 games next year
   43. Walt Davis Posted: September 15, 2020 at 06:03 PM (#5976588)
#42 ... no idea if there are/will be special provisions for a shortened season but your scenario is certainly possible.
   44. Howie Menckel Posted: September 15, 2020 at 08:30 PM (#5976636)
Albert Pujols, the slowest player in MLB

if he grades slower than Wilson Ramos, it's time to recalibrate the measuring stick.
   45. John DiFool2 Posted: September 15, 2020 at 08:35 PM (#5976638)
Who will be next to hit 500? I may have been pessimistic the other day about HoFers who are currently in or around their prime years, but man, Miggy is @ 482 and going nowhere fast, Edwin Encarnacion & Nelson Cruz have cleared 400 but will never get there. Yeah, Trout, but outside him nobody is really primed to make any sort of run, at all. It likely has something to do with that weird thing where HRs are at all time highs but nobody is clearing 60/season.
   46. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 15, 2020 at 09:05 PM (#5976652)
Miggy is @ 482 and going nowhere fast . . .
Cabrera is under contract for 3 more years after 2021. He’s hit 5 HRs in 46 games this year, so he’ll make it, somewhat painfully to be sure.
   47. Jaack Posted: September 15, 2020 at 09:08 PM (#5976660)
I know it's unlikely, but at this point I'm not willing to count Nelson Cruz. If he can sustain his production for two more seasons he'd be really close.

After him, Bryce Harper isn't an awful bet, but other than him and Trout, no one is standing out.
   48. cardsfanboy Posted: September 15, 2020 at 10:01 PM (#5976724)
Cabrera will make it, unless there is another abbreviated season like this year next year... but I expect that even a shortened season next year will be 120 or so games.

Agree with Jaack, Harper is a real possibility, half way there already, only 27 years old, and locked into 11 year contract... needs to average less than 25 homeruns a year to reach that goal. Stanton with his contract has to be on the list, same with Machado, Freeman? Eugenio Saurez? Rizzo? Other options are more longshots. Arenado, Goldschmidt, etc.. but there are plenty of players who could project to be the type to do it. You don't need them all to do it, just one of a group....
   49. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 15, 2020 at 11:16 PM (#5976767)
Here is everyone in Sprint Speed below 24 ft/sec. Albert last and its not even really close with Yadi. Ramos a blazing 23.5.
412  Davis, Chris  BAL 1B 34 16 0  23.9
413  Kratz, Erik  NYY C 40 10 0  23.8
414  Suzuki, Kurt  WSH C 37 27 0  23.8
415  Hedges, Austin  CLE C 28 17 0  23.7
416  Grandal, Yasmani  CWS C 32 28 0 23.6
417  Ramos, Wilson  NYM C 33 34 0 5.11 23.5
418  Maldonado, Martin  HOU C 34 27 0 23.4
419  Gyorko, Jedd  MIL 1B 32 17 0  23.4
420  Leon, Sandy  CLE C 31 12 0  23.3
421  Stallings, Jacob  PIT C 31 34 0 23.3
422  Chirinos, Robinson  NYM C 36 19 0 23.1
423  Cabrera, Miguel  DET DH 37 42 0 23.0
424  Smoak, Justin  SF 1B 34 29 0  22.9
425  Molina, Yadier  STL C 38 26 0  22.5
426  Pujols, Albert  LAA 1B 40 39 0  22.1


https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard
   50. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 15, 2020 at 11:30 PM (#5976798)
I'm not optimistic we'll get 162 games next year

I'd bet everything I own that we'll have less than 162 next year.

   51. Howie Menckel Posted: September 15, 2020 at 11:45 PM (#5976828)
per the link in Post 49, Ramos is The Biggest Loser in "home plate to first base" speed.
   52. Walt Davis Posted: September 16, 2020 at 01:17 AM (#5976850)
Stanton was a "lock" for 500 but injuries have significantly side-tracked that and it's not clear he'll get it back on track. Still another 7 years on that contract but he needs to average about 27 per year which is gonna be tough if he'll be lucky to play 80 games. He was 8th on the "thru 28" list at 305 and everybody ahead of him made it ... unfortunately the two right behind him were Juan Gone and Andruw. He's now well out of the top 10 through age 30. That mostly hasn't been a bad thing of course, the top guys have tended to hit as many or more in their 30s but I'm pretty sure those guys were all healthy entering their age 31+ seasons.

You're right it's not a hugely promising active list. I'd have guessed Arenado had more than 235. Harper and Machado have been mentioned. Obviously Soto has an excellent shot at it no matter how far away he is.

Warning: Trout is probably going to finish in that Stanton, Gonzalez, Andruw group through age 28 too.
   53. Rally Posted: September 16, 2020 at 08:54 AM (#5976858)
if he grades slower than Wilson Ramos, it's time to recalibrate the measuring stick.


You can time them based on the seasonal change in direction of their shadows from when they start their run to when they get to first.
   54. Rally Posted: September 16, 2020 at 08:59 AM (#5976860)
per the link in Post 49, Ramos is The Biggest Loser in "home plate to first base" speed.


Yeah, but they don't show a home to first time for everyone, nothing for Albert. They'll post his time whenever he finally gets there.

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