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Tuesday, September 22, 2020

Angels’ Andrelton Simmons opts out as Los Angeles’ season draws to a close

Los Angeles Angels shortstop Andrelton Simmons has decided to opt out of the remainder of the season, with only five games left in the regular season and his team all but eliminated from postseason contention.

In a statement released through his agency, ISE, Simmons said, “Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association developed an environment and system that empowered players and provided us the opportunity to decide on whether to play or opt out of the season. At this moment, I feel this is the best decision for me and for my family. We don’t know what the future holds, but we would like to sincerely thank the Angels organization and Angels fans for welcoming and making us feel at home.”

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 22, 2020 at 08:06 PM | 49 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: andrelton simmons, angels

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   1. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 22, 2020 at 08:59 PM (#5978131)
Yesterday was his last as an Angel. I'm gonna miss him.
   2. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: September 22, 2020 at 09:08 PM (#5978134)
I know this isn't news, but he's an unearthly defender. He's like Ozzie Smith and Brooks Robinson had a love child.
   3. The Duke Posted: September 22, 2020 at 09:28 PM (#5978138)
This team sucks. I quit
   4. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 22, 2020 at 09:38 PM (#5978142)
This team sucks. I quit.
Hang on. Help may be on the way, in the person of Dave Dombrowski.
   5. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: September 22, 2020 at 10:08 PM (#5978157)
Eh, unless there is something else here, it seems kind of a douchy move. It's only 5 games, how hard is it to play out the string?
   6. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 23, 2020 at 12:54 AM (#5978199)

I don't know about douchy, but kind of a weird move since all the remaining games are pretty much local (@SDP and @LAD)
   7. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: September 23, 2020 at 12:58 AM (#5978200)
#6
You're nicer then I am. If I were a teammate, I'd think it's kind of a bush league move. As you said, it's like 5 local games; how hard is it just to see out the week?
   8. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 23, 2020 at 02:18 AM (#5978203)
That's how you know he's not coming back. I'm sure his people have reached out to the Angels, and I'm sure they've given him the cold shoulder. I don't think they want to have a big public money spat during the Season of Covid, but I'm guessing Simmons just got to a point where he just felt like he was risking something for nothing. It's a douchy move, but I get it.
   9. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: September 23, 2020 at 02:43 AM (#5978204)
I'm with Dave - this is more weird to me than douchy, unless you believe that Hombre's speculation is correct and that he's not coming back. If the Angels had been eliminated or were traveling, that would make more sense. But the timing is odd. It does make me think that there's something going on behind the scenes; either he's been assured that he's not going to get a multi-year contract offer or there's some other weird business going on in the clubhouse that he has no desire to be a part of.

Or there's the possibility that it really is just Covid-related and he wants to be with family. I am not going to blame a guy for that. If it's something else, though, I'm not a huge fan of the timing.
   10. Walt Davis Posted: September 23, 2020 at 03:44 AM (#5978206)
I'm in the "WTF" basket as well ... but we don't bat an eye when a team with a pending FA trades them away or when a team DFA's an under-performing, overpaid player or they cut/non-tender a player injured under their watch (once their CBA-required commitments are satisfied). Maybe Simmons just decided it was time to DFA the Angels. If we accept that baseball is a business and excuse (some) team assholery on that basis, we should do the same for players.

For another analogy, you know how most big businesses don't go the "we're gonna have to let you go Bob but you can finish out the month" route anymore, they jsut escort Bob out of the building (even if they have to keep paying him). Simmons just did that to the Angels.
   11. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: September 23, 2020 at 06:31 AM (#5978207)
If his opting out is "douchy", what is questioning someone's motivation for opting out without knowing any details except the bottom line? No one should be guilted into doing anything they aren't comfortable with during the pandemic.
   12. . Posted: September 23, 2020 at 07:31 AM (#5978211)
We can rest assured all this will be kept in mind the next time (an injured) Dick Allen "bailing out on his (*) team" is brought up in HOF discussions.

(*) His out of contention team.
   13. Rally Posted: September 23, 2020 at 08:11 AM (#5978214)
Timing is about right considering that all potential playoff teams have to enter a bubble. So even at home games, you need to be in a hotel. Angels are not a potential playoff team, but as of last night they have not been mathematically eliminated. Maybe that happens tonight.

I don’t blame him for not going along with that charade.
   14. Gch Posted: September 23, 2020 at 08:43 AM (#5978217)
If his opting out is "douchy", what is questioning someone's motivation for opting out without knowing any details except the bottom line? No one should be guilted into doing anything they aren't comfortable with during the pandemic.


I'm willing to give MLB players the benefit the doubt when they opt out, but given that Simmons likes COVID conspiracy theories like this and this on Twitter and posts things like this to his Instagram, I'd be willing to bet that opting out has nothing to do with COVID.
   15. Rally Posted: September 23, 2020 at 09:12 AM (#5978222)
#14, then Simmons seems exactly the sort who would not want to be forced to stay in his hotel room every second he's not at the ballpark, until his team is officially eliminated.

They have started the playoff quarantine this week, basically hotel to ballpark and that's it for the players. You get out of it when your team is eliminated from playoff contention.
   16. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 23, 2020 at 09:20 AM (#5978225)
Insulted that the Angels don't offer him a new contract, so he turns down 5 games of pay.
   17. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 23, 2020 at 10:01 AM (#5978233)
Andrelton Cartman. Classy.
   18. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 23, 2020 at 10:32 AM (#5978241)
I'm in the "WTF" basket as well ... but we don't bat an eye when a team with a pending FA trades them away or when a team DFA's an under-performing, overpaid player or they cut/non-tender a player injured under their watch (once their CBA-required commitments are satisfied). Maybe Simmons just decided it was time to DFA the Angels. If we accept that baseball is a business and excuse (some) team assholery on that basis, we should do the same for players.


I think it's walking out on his fellow players that rubs people the wrong way. I've quit jobs, but I've always spent the two weeks transitioning my work. I've never said "I'm out", and taken vacation and disappeared.
   19. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 23, 2020 at 10:35 AM (#5978242)
I remember thinking the Simmons deal to LA was stupid for the Braves since he was signed to such a long term deal and could conceivably be part of a rebuild in Atlanta, and the return wasn't that great anyway (Sean Newcomb). I also didn't anticipate Simmons' bat being as good as it was with LAA. Anyway, he ended up being worth 20 WAR in five seasons in LA, and he might have been a difference maker the last few seasons in Atlanta (although Swanson hasn't been that bad).
   20. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: September 23, 2020 at 10:50 AM (#5978244)
Simmons has been okay with the bat, but it looks like he has stuck with his risk-averse approach (few strikeouts but little pop) in the face of MLB's rising K's/rising power. There's not a lot of guys still doing that.
   21. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 23, 2020 at 11:01 AM (#5978248)

I think it's walking out on his fellow players that rubs people the wrong way. I've quit jobs, but I've always spent the two weeks transitioning my work. I've never said "I'm out", and taken vacation and disappeared.


There's not really any work that needs to be transitioned here. Baseball teams are built such that they can lose a key player on a moment's notice (due to injury, trade, whatever). That's especially true this season, where additional measures were taken to have backups ready. MLB and the MLBPA specifically negotiated for players to have this ability to opt out, which also makes it unlike other seasons where there isn't that built-in framework.

Like I said, it's a weird decision by Simmons, but I also find it weird that people here preemptively take issue with it on behalf of his teammates who, AFAIK, have expressed no such sentiments.
   22. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 23, 2020 at 11:05 AM (#5978249)
MLB and the MLBPA specifically negotiated for players to have this ability to opt out this season which also makes it unlike other seasons where such behavior might be viewed more negatively.
Yeah, but the opt-out was negotiated for safety concerns, not for “f*** it, I’m going home.”
   23. VCar Posted: September 23, 2020 at 11:51 AM (#5978259)
I think it's walking out on his fellow players that rubs people the wrong way. I've quit jobs, but I've always spent the two weeks transitioning my work. I've never said "I'm out", and taken vacation and disappeared.

There's not really any work that needs to be transitioned here.


No, but that would be an interesting idea. "Andrelton, stick around for 2 weeks and show your successor how to play better defense at SS."
   24. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: September 23, 2020 at 12:08 PM (#5978268)
Like I said, it's a weird decision by Simmons, but I also find it weird that people here preemptively take issue with it on behalf of his teammates who, AFAIK, have expressed no such sentiments.


I would be surprised if his teammates said anything. I haven't seen any quotes from them about it, but, regardless of how they actually feel, I would be shocked if any of them said more than "It's his decision and he's got to do what he feels is right." To say anything more would break a locker room code to keep that stuff in-house, and it certainly wouldn't accomplish anything. It's not going to change Simmons' mind. If they want to do that, they'll send him a text or give him a call.

I'm trying to be more empathetic about things like this, and during this pandemic, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But I have to be honest, if it is anything other than pandemic-related, I really dislike the idea of walking out on teammates. The concept of team is pretty sacred to me. Yes, I know the organization can break that up on a whim, this is a business, blah blah blah. But those decisions are made by stuffy dudes in ties on conference calls. This decision was made by a guy who works and plays alongside 24 (25? 27? how many is it?) other guys pulling for the same goal on a daily basis. Abandoning the team without a Covid-related reason or some other organizational dysfunction reason (which would be alarming, but not entirely out of left field under Moreno's management) leaves me kind of frustrated.

That said, I doubt we'll ever really know the details. I guess I'll have to remain in that discomfiting space between empathy and anger.
   25. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: September 23, 2020 at 12:14 PM (#5978273)
Insulted that the Angels don't offer him a new contract, so he turns down 5 games of pay.

In this prorated year, it doesn't amount to that much (for him, anyway).
   26. McCoy Posted: September 23, 2020 at 12:46 PM (#5978276)
I effing hate playing out the string. If I'm going to a new job or position I just want to go. Once I've decided to move on I'm done with the old place. Those last two or three or sometimes 4 weeks drag on and suck.


I once have my notice at a place and a few things happened. One) we had an employee who was pregnant and my boss said she could but work maternity clothes instead of us doing it and the company would reimburse her. There's supposed to be an app an employee could use to get reimbursed but it wasn't working for her. So HR comes to me and says why don't I pay her out of my pocket and then submit the expense for reimbursement. I said no way. The business was so cash strapped our finance regularly put off paying bills and were notoriously slow at reimbursing employees. I time them to go bring it up with my boss to do that since he authorized it. Two) the safes department decided they wanted some huge project done and for some reason I should do it even though it had virtually nothing to do with me or my department. I've got like 4 days to go and this project is going to take weeks. I say no. They come back with "you know you still work here, right?" My response was and what do you think is going to happen it I continue to say no? Three) the final thing was my boss for the entire 2 weeks keeps telling me he needs to get with me to go over what need to be done in the department and how it works. I routinely setup meetings and try to meet with him during those two weeks only for him to pull no shows or cancel. Finally last day comes and he still won't meet with me and disappears for awhile. My time comes and goes and I say eff it. Drop off my keys and go home. About 2 hours after my shift ends he calls me and leaves me a shitty message.
   27. Howie Menckel Posted: September 23, 2020 at 12:58 PM (#5978281)
I had an old roommate who was a star car salesman.

he'd get a better offer from another dealer every year - and apparently in that business, the end of your conversation about your planned departure is you walk to your car and drive away. he said it wasn't personal (usually), just how those guys rolled.
   28. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: September 23, 2020 at 01:02 PM (#5978282)
If the Angels were officially eliminated from the playoffs, that would make more sense, even if it was still a kind of lousy thing to do. Without a potential playoff run, Simmons is just playing out the string, and I can see how that would be annoying, especially having to be in a bubble. However, pending free agents do that every single year (aside from the bubble). And, as slim as it might be, the Angels have a mathematical shot at getting in the postseason and are playing well at the moment. The timing is just weird.
   29. McCoy Posted: September 23, 2020 at 01:22 PM (#5978285)
Re 27. That's sales for you. Sales always gets walked. The last thing a company wants if you telling your clients your going to X.
   30. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: September 23, 2020 at 02:04 PM (#5978294)
I'm willing to give MLB players the benefit the doubt when they opt out, but given that Simmons likes COVID conspiracy theories


Oh man.
   31. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 23, 2020 at 02:24 PM (#5978297)
I assume the “shut up and stick to sports!!” crowd is all over him in response to those posts, right? Like they would be if he tweeted Black Lives Matter stuff?
   32. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 23, 2020 at 02:45 PM (#5978304)

In banking, when you give your notice they often want you to leave as soon as possible since they are worried you're going to take proprietary information or client relationships with you to the next place.
   33. Rally Posted: September 23, 2020 at 02:46 PM (#5978305)
he'd get a better offer from another dealer every year - and apparently in that business, the end of your conversation about your planned departure is you walk to your car and drive away. he said it wasn't personal (usually), just how those guys rolled.


About 20 years ago I worked in the payroll department for a dealership. Salespeople came and went all the time. There was no stigma at all. They'd quit and take another job, then 3 months later they'd be back.

Usually they didn't get fired, unless they did something really bad (like assaulting a co-worker, stealing a car, drunk driving crash in a demo) or just couldn't sell a car at all. If they had a bad month, they just wouldn't get paid much (commission only, with minimum wage base), but if they were willing to stick out and show up they had a job.

A little different for the managers though. You could have 3 great months, get all kinds of bonuses. Then you have a bad month and the general manager decides changes are needed. So you're fired. The managers would go find a job at another dealership, but often a few months later, after another bad month and the replacement getting fired, the original manager would be back. It was a game of musical chairs.
   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 23, 2020 at 02:52 PM (#5978307)
Usually they didn't get fired, unless they did something really bad (like assaulting a co-worker, stealing a car, drunk driving crash in a demo)
Those things actually happened from time to time?? What the hell kind of dealership was this?
   35. CFBF is Outside the Margin of Error Posted: September 23, 2020 at 03:16 PM (#5978313)
Those things actually happened from time to time?? What the hell kind of dealership was this?


A goddamned cool one, sounds like.
   36. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 23, 2020 at 03:17 PM (#5978314)
In banking, when you give your notice they often want you to leave as soon as possible since they are worried you're going to take proprietary information or client relationships with you to the next place.

My last job before my current one was as a VP at JP Morgan Chase and at that level they "request" a 30-day notice of leaving, which I gave, but I was in business analytics and not a customer-facing position, so they kept me on for the whole month.
   37. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 23, 2020 at 04:13 PM (#5978321)
My last job before my current one was as a VP at JP Morgan Chase
Yeah, you're picking up the check for dinner.
   38. Rally Posted: September 23, 2020 at 04:23 PM (#5978323)
I only worked for one dealership, about 4 years, but my impression from getting to know people in the business was this was not out of the ordinary. You get all kinds of characters from different paths of life selling cars.
   39. Zach Posted: September 23, 2020 at 05:13 PM (#5978332)
Teams do coldhearted things, too, but there should be a gentleman's understanding that COVID opt-outs are only to be used by players genuinely concerned about the risk of coronavirus to themselves or their families and not to get an extra week of vacation. It's a pretty major concession by the teams, and making it open ended lets players make decisions based on their individual circumstances. If players abuse it, the opt-out rules might not be so generous next time.
   40. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 23, 2020 at 05:15 PM (#5978333)
Yeah, you're picking up the check for dinner.

Heh. They've got tens of thousands of "VP's" and I was a VP reporting to a VP, so that's where I ranked on the org chart. Director level is where the money really starts there, and that was still a couple of promotions away.
   41. Walt Davis Posted: September 24, 2020 at 02:48 AM (#5978420)
Getting to this late ...

I think it's walking out on his fellow players that rubs people the wrong way.

Sure. Like I said, I put it in the WTF basket too.

But again, teams don't consider the teammates when they trade/cut/etc. a player. I'm guessing the Red Sox didn't give a lot of consideration to, say, the employees in their ticket sales dept when they traded Mookie. I don't imagine the Marlins get choked up about the Yanks when they cash their common/shared revenue checks.

It's more about how we have come not just to expect but kinda demand that players take into account the ramifications of their actions on their teammates and fans and consider it, at best, morally questionable when they don't. But for owners (and corporations in general) we have come to accept abrupt actions in service of the bottom line. We all know that from a physical risk standpoint, it makes no sense for Simmons to play the last 5 games; the question then is whether that is outweighed by the possible financial hit he may take in his next contract given he "walked out on his teammates" (I'm not sure he fully considered that).

Now the annoying legal question. Suppose the covid opt-out was not in effect and he walked out on the last 5 games before his contract ended and the team suspended him. Would that mean he would not become an FA until such time as the Angels waived the contract or he fulfilled those 5 days (which I think means play all of next year because I'm not aware of any provision for becoming FA mid-season)? I'm pretty sure that if those 5 days kept a player from having the full 6 years service time (not an issue for Simmons) then they'd be stuck.

(Obviously if any of that implied speculation is correct, the player would stick around for those 5 days.)
   42. Rally Posted: September 24, 2020 at 08:36 AM (#5978429)
Walt, There are generally more days in a season than service time days, but a player can get no more credit than 1.000 years for a season. If a player who was projected to hit 6 years at the end of the season walked out 5 days early in a normal year, he would be fine. Kind of a reverse Kris Bryant situation, where the Cubs had to keep him down 2 weeks instead of just a day or two. If such a player walked out on September 5th of a normal season just before he hit 6 years, he'd still be team property.

In Simmons' case, not relevant since he has been playing under a contract extension, and at this point has over 8 years of service time.
   43. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: September 24, 2020 at 10:46 AM (#5978447)
Oh man I know what Bryant is doing in September of 2021. If the Cubs are right on the verge of the playoffs it would be even more sweet.
   44. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:06 AM (#5978450)
Fangraphs' take is, surprise surprise, unquestioningly and completely supportive:

The decision whether or not to play, however, isn’t one that athletes made once in July and then forget about. Players face that same decision every day as new variables come into play, the environment around them changes, and the upside in pushing forward shrinks. If you’re a star shortstop on the cusp of hitting the market for the first time, playing for a team barely clinging to life in its postseason chase, the upside in playing is next to nothing, while the risk in doing so is as great as ever.

...

Perhaps for the first time since he broke into the majors, Simmons can’t be sure what the future holds, and it’s happening in a year that has already introduced more uncertainty than many of us were prepared to reckon with. You might not know the feeling of playing baseball with a sore ankle on a bad team during a pandemic. But you, too, may be growing tired of waiting anxiously to find out what your next step is supposed to be and wishing you could skip ahead to whatever is supposed to come after all of this.
Yes, all players are totally above reproach at all times. <eyeroll>
   45. Rally Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:06 AM (#5978451)
If he really wants to rub it in he can walk away on 4-17-2021.

I guess the Cubs could always take the high road and instead of paying him a slight raise on 18.6 million following a .583 OPS season let him be a free agent with a non-tender.

"We're sorry Kris. Your defense in spring 2015 wasn't that bad. It was wrong of us to manipulate your service time. Enjoy your free agency."
   46. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 24, 2020 at 12:34 PM (#5978472)

I would be surprised if his teammates said anything. I haven't seen any quotes from them about it, but, regardless of how they actually feel, I would be shocked if any of them said more than "It's his decision and he's got to do what he feels is right." To say anything more would break a locker room code to keep that stuff in-house, and it certainly wouldn't accomplish anything. It's not going to change Simmons' mind. If they want to do that, they'll send him a text or give him a call.

Players rarely go on the record about stuff like this, but it's not unusual for someone to comment anonymously (i.e. "one player said..." or "one front office official said..."

My last job before my current one was as a VP at JP Morgan Chase and at that level they "request" a 30-day notice of leaving, which I gave, but I was in business analytics and not a customer-facing position, so they kept me on for the whole month.

Yeah, I have seen it both ways on the client-facing side. If they know you're leaving for a competitor, they usually push you out right away. If they're laying you off or you're not going to a competitor, they might want you to work through your notice period. And some people want to do so for various reasons.

   47. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: September 24, 2020 at 12:59 PM (#5978479)
Players rarely go on the record about stuff like this, but it's not unusual for someone to comment anonymously (i.e. "one player said..." or "one front office official said..."


It's not unusual, but it's also not unusual for those comments to come out much later. The players could be totally fine with it, or they could be really annoyed. Their silence doesn't tell us one way or the other.
   48. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 24, 2020 at 01:29 PM (#5978493)
For those who see no issues with his walkout, do you feel the same way about Sammy Sosa's walkout?
   49. McCoy Posted: September 24, 2020 at 06:47 PM (#5978585)
Are we talking last game of the season and he's out of the game? Yeah, Chicago was pretty much done with him and he done with them at that point.

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