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Wednesday, June 13, 2007

AP: [Marty] Brennaman apologizes for Bataan remark

Reds broadcaster Marty Brennaman apologized on the air for comparing Cincinnati’s upcoming road trip to the Bataan Death March.

Brennaman told radio listeners during the Reds’ game Tuesday night against the Angels that he was wrong to make the comparison in an earlier broadcast, “and I profusely apologize.”

Thousands of captured U.S. and Filipino soldiers were forced to walk 70 miles to a concentration camp during World War II, many dying along the way. A radio listener in New Mexico heard Brennaman’s remark about Bataan and sent the Reds an e-mail objecting to the comparison.

Eh?  I thought that “like the Bataan death march” (or similar) had pretty much seeped into general usage over the years when discussing a difficult period of time (in sports, in discussing work, etc) - even by people who know squat about WWII history.

NTNgod Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:11 PM | 63 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: reds

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   1. Shredder Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:18 PM (#2402921)
Oh Good Lord.
   2. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:25 PM (#2402931)
Any way we could get him to apologize for regularly going 5 minutes at a time without actually mentioning the game he's supposed to be broadcasting?

Yeesh.
   3. Dudefella Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:30 PM (#2402937)
Forcing Brennaman to apologize for this is like nailing Al Capone on a tax rap. It gets the job done, I suppose, but man.
   4. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:32 PM (#2402939)
Can I still compare someone looking like they just came out of the Battle of the Bulge?
   5. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:34 PM (#2402941)
Can we get him to apologize for having offspring?
   6. Jack Sommers Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:35 PM (#2402942)
Wow....this is ridiculous. I've used that reference myself on more than one occasion to describe a long trudging trip or haul.

BTW, I've been to Bataan on several occasions. I guess now that I think about it, I wouldn't use that reference if I was there. So maybe it's a little insensitive. But at this point, maybe we just need to cancel all broadcasts, close the internet, and stop talking to each other period.
   7. Jeff K. Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:37 PM (#2402945)
I used to use "Trail of Tears" when describing interminable walks. Am I a bad person?
   8. We don't have dahlians at the Palace of Wisdom Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:38 PM (#2402946)
Other useful World War 2 analogies for Brennaman:

Ryan Freel chased that fly ball down like a policeman going after a Japanese-American.
It's time for the Reds defense to hunker down in the face of this London Blitz.
With a pick-off move like Arroyo's, the opposition won't exactly be needing Panzer speed to steal on him.
The Reds offense is as hot as Dresden right now!
That double switch worked about as well for Narron as neutrality did for Belgium.
   9. Dan Evensen Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:40 PM (#2402948)
If MLB is serious about going after the Mainland Chinese audience, they should get him to refer to the "Long March" instead.
   10. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:41 PM (#2402950)
I used to use "Trail of Tears" when describing interminable walks. Am I a bad person?

Unless you are Andrew Jackson, no.

Other useful World War 2 analogies for Brennaman:

The only owner cheaper than Nutting and McClatchy is Oskar Schindler.
   11. We don't have dahlians at the Palace of Wisdom Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:46 PM (#2402954)
I used to use "Trail of Tears" when describing interminable walks. Am I a bad person?

It depends on situation and audience. If you said that while on a MLB broadcast then you're a moron and should apologize for it.

It's not an awful thing that Brennaman said and I don't think of him as a bad person for it, but I think that this whole exchange went well and I don't think it's out of line for him to make some statement saying that he didn't realize how sensitive of an issue that still is for many people and he apologizes if he offends them. People can rail as much as they want about it's stupidity but it's not an unreasonable reaction by both parties and it's this sort of give and take that is essential for raising people's cultural awareness.

All in all - these events are a net positive for creating an aware, tolerant and understanding society. If you hope for a world with announcers that are able to call homosexuals "fags", women "dishwashers" and make liberal use of Holocaust jokes, then this is probably a sad day for you.
   12. Lassus Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:52 PM (#2402958)
OK, I'll be the voice of liberalism that takes the beating from all you oh-so-above-it-all scribes. Time does not necessarily heal all wounds for people who were actually closely involved and there are countless metaphors for terrible road trips. Why would an apology for "worse than running down the stairs at the World Trade Center" not be seen as the death of free speech? Once again - for those close to the event, the 6 years vs. 50 years means nothing.

Actually, this story is quite positive. The comment was made, someone said it was probably not the best idea, and an apology was issued. Done and done. Why #####? I personally wouldn't upon hearing have said anything other than "Brennaman, you're an idiot, as usual" because I'm not the one bothered.
   13. Lassus Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:55 PM (#2402959)
Black Coat said it a lot better than I did. Read that one.
   14. Dudefella Posted: June 13, 2007 at 10:57 PM (#2402961)
All in all - these events are a net positive for creating an aware, tolerant and understanding society. If you hope for a world with announcers that are able to call homosexuals "fags", women "dishwashers" and make liberal use of Holocaust jokes, then this is probably a sad day for you.


Commander Strawman to the rescue!
   15. Lassus Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:05 PM (#2402966)
Sadly, I'm not sure apologizing or taking someone else into consideration is actually considered American.

In fact, after travelling around the world recently, I'm pretty sure it's not even considered human at this point.
   16. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:08 PM (#2402972)
I'm not in a forgiving mood. FIRE BRENNAMAN!!!
   17. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:09 PM (#2402975)
As someone who tunes into Reds games via MLB Audio, Marty says a number of things that could/would be construed by a fair number of folks. But working for WLW in Cincy which plays the Star-Bangled Banner on the hour at noon (and I think also at 6 a.m. if relatives are correct) and does various and sundry things to wrap themselves in the flag demands that should even one person voice a complaint on something that could be considered insulting to veterans and the world there turns upside down.

I am a veteran, and I find and have always found Marty's very being, nay existence, to be somewhat offensive. But I doubt MY e-mail would elicit an apology.
   18. Lassus Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:12 PM (#2402983)
And with all that being said, I'd like to point out that Tim Lincecum's start for my fantasy team today was like, um... was like.... Listening to John Sterling do play-by-play of last night's NBA Finals game while drowning in quicksand.

If I've offended any Yankee fans or basketball fans, I'll gladly apologize.


For the fact that you are forced to listen to Sterling or watch basketball.
   19. danup Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:14 PM (#2402987)
Has he apologized for Thom's existence yet?
   20. Starring RMc as Bradley Scotchman Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:15 PM (#2402991)
Personally, I tend to think of the Bataan Death March as being like the Black Hole of Calcutta

"At the final meeting 134 legal people and accountants filed into a small eight by ten room. Only 87 came out alive. The Black Hole of Saville Row had taken toll of some of the finest merchant banking brains of a generation. Luckily, that's not very serious, but the Rutles were obviously self-destructing fast."
   21. Dr. Vaux Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:17 PM (#2402996)
So now people have to apologize for using standard metaphors. I'm becoming downright afraid to talk at all. This is horseshit.
   22. Lassus Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:28 PM (#2403017)
Vaux - He, or rather the broadcasting company, didn't HAVE to apologize. They were asked to, and they did. Or maybe HE was asked to and he did. The protests of this episode sound even shriller than usual, as it's a non-issue. Please stay calm.
   23. Rally Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:37 PM (#2403027)
Wow....this is ridiculous. I've used that reference myself on more than one occasion to describe a long trudging trip or haul.

You need to be rounded up and subjected to sensitivity training.
   24. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili (TeddyF.Ballgame) Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:47 PM (#2403054)
So now people have to apologize for using standard metaphors. I'm becoming downright afraid to talk at all. This is horseshit.


Since I'm still depressed about Barbaro, this remark offends me. Please apologize and in future be more careful when waxing scatological.

As for mentioning Bataan or the Trail of Tears metaphorically, I wouldn't have a problem using the former reference, although I suppose I'd say I was sorry if someone said he had a personal connection to the event and was offended. I wouldn't use the latter, even though it's much more historically distant. What's the difference? I suppose because as a white American I'd feel safer belittling my own culture's tragedy than making light of a horrible event that befell members of a minority group. Besides, the word "Bataan" is much funnier than "tears."

I've now thought about this incident for about ten minutes longer than it ever deserved.
   25. Swedish Chef Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:47 PM (#2403056)
No wonder people are so into pop culture references these days. Referencing reality is dangerous, too much risk of going down like the Hindenburg.
   26. Lassus Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:48 PM (#2403059)
"Wow....this is ridiculous. I've used that reference myself on more than one occasion to describe a long trudging trip or haul."

When you were talking to a national audience and tens of thousands of listeners in a place where there are a thousands of WWII veterans?
   27. Urban Faber Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:52 PM (#2403075)
What would Marge Schott say?
   28. asinwreck Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:53 PM (#2403077)
When will he apologize for Thom? (Not that Thom's forgivable.)
   29. asinwreck Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:54 PM (#2403082)
Missed post #20. But the question still stands.
   30. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 13, 2007 at 11:59 PM (#2403092)
Lassus:

While I was too young, my brother served in World War II. Gordy used that reference on multiple occasions in reference to me taking him on rabbit hunts that lasted far too long in his opinion. Or does he have special allowance as a veteran of the conflict though not a victim of the specific incident?

'Cause he had a "cushy" job on a destroyer in the South Pacific. Always gotta given the Navy guys a hard time. Even when they're dead. That's what brothers do.
   31. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 14, 2007 at 12:06 AM (#2403108)
Lassus:

As a follow up if you want to expend some energy on behalf of some old men who served their country, how about the next time you are at the ballgame and some lazy c*cks*cker is lounging in his chair yapping with his buddy while the anthem is playing you politely ask him to stand and expend five f*cking calories for one time during the day?

We had a chat about this in another thread a while back without much resolution other than the so-called rebels got to convey their lame, sorry *ss excuses for not being willing to exert themselves for three minutes.

I am hopeful that perhaps I can gain one convert to the cause. That is if the "feelings" of possibly one veteran mean so much maybe you will consider MINE and act accordingly.

Sincerely,

Harvey
   32. Every Inge Counts Posted: June 14, 2007 at 12:19 AM (#2403139)
too soon?
   33. Repoz Posted: June 14, 2007 at 12:40 AM (#2403201)
No wonder people are so into pop culture references these days.

I hate that stuff...
   34. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2007 at 12:47 AM (#2403238)
Harvey -

I think that you are putting together two issues which are not equal, although even my argument won't apply all that much because it implies thoughtfulness on the part of those not standing. My mother's father was captured and killed in WWII in France, and my other grandfather was at Normandy and lived through it. For a number of years, I was respectfully quiet and took off my hat but did not stand with the anthem. It is absolutely a basic right and basis for life in America not to be forced to stand in such a situation and I believe based on extensive reading that 95% of the Constitutional Convention would agree with me. I do believe that it is this freedom my grandfather died for as opposed to what the Germans were trying to do to all of Europe and force people to behave in a certain way. I have in fact - as Brennamen did - apologized to my grandfather for doing so when he brought it up, as well as those at the stadium who spoke to me about it. My grandfather was pissed but he understood. (I had to stop this after 9/11, as I simply could not take the enormous load of crap I got at Shea. I am now forced to stand, if this is what you want.) I visit my grandfather's grave every Veteran's day I'm able and fly the flag out of respect and thankfullness on this and other days that are important. (Although I admit it is hard to fly a flag out of a NYC basement apartment or a room with no windows.) As far as the twits at the stadium, I cannot speak for them, but obviously I'm against thoughlessness and that sort of rude behavior.

I do think this story is a non-story, again. I have raised my voice because I do not agree with those who go on and on and on about how the apology is SOO awful and terrible. I think the apology Brenneman gave is valid even if I would not cry out myself for it.

I am sorry if you don't find my sorry-ass excuse for not standing in the past to be valid and feel that I do not support your feelings. I do. I do not find this thread's situation to be comparable to your argument for standing during the anthem. I truly enjoy your posts and viewpoints, and it upsets me that this view of mine would have you find me beneath your respect.

As far as brothers giving each other crap being the same thing, please. Would you have kidded a stranger during that period about the Bataan Death March? I could be wrong best I would doubt it.

With Respect -
Timothy
   35. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: June 14, 2007 at 12:47 AM (#2403241)
After this road trip, the Reds look like Paris Hilton after a court appearance. We were robbed worse than George W. Bush in Albania...


...I was wrong to make the comparisons in an earlier broadcast, and I profusely apologize. I now realize it was far too soon.
   36. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: June 14, 2007 at 12:57 AM (#2403268)
Any way we could get him to apologize for regularly going 5 minutes at a time without actually mentioning the game he's supposed to be broadcasting?

If he did, he'd probably do it in the middle of an inning, go one for 5 minutes doing it, and forget to mention the game while doing it.
   37. scareduck Posted: June 14, 2007 at 12:59 AM (#2403274)
Lassus -- good for you. I refuse to stand or take my hat off for "God Bless America" whenever they sing it.
   38. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2007 at 01:05 AM (#2403291)
That support makes me a little nervous, actually.
   39. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 14, 2007 at 01:09 AM (#2403300)
Lassus and scareduck:

The previous explanations given by others were that they didn't want to honor the current administration by standing for the anthem.

I personally believe the anthem and flag are enduring symbols for the IDEA of the United States and NOT for any specific individual or individuals.

As such, I cannot fathom not honoring the idea, the concept, the hope that is the U.S. as described in the Constitution, an imperfect document that is nonetheless the greatest living document created by man. Because I believe that is the one idea that DOES bind us as citizens of this nation.

And playing the Nazi card? I would hope that the posters here could do better in developing a persusasive argument.

Having said my piece I will now exit stage right as this is a forum about baseball.
   40. Jeff K. Posted: June 14, 2007 at 01:12 AM (#2403306)
It depends on situation and audience. If you said that while on a MLB broadcast then you're a moron and should apologize for it.

Well, that much is certainly true. I don't know a whole lot about Marty, but from what I've heard here and before (especially from Harveys, who is about the last person I expect to tell someone to shut it that doesn't deserve it), it does seem he needs to learn to censor himself a little better.
   41. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 14, 2007 at 01:19 AM (#2403320)
Jeff:

As a loudmouth myself, I would be the hypocrite in the extreme in telling Marty the Great to hush unless I found his commentary to cross the proverbial line.

But as others have pointed out it's ironic in the extreme in that it was something like THIS that caused him to catch some flack.

And if folks want a taste turn into MLB Audio. And if you want even more background as the broadcasting philosophy of the station in general check out WLW 700 and the Bill Cunningham show. That's a special treat.

They don't have any special times listing local lynchings taking place later in the week but that's all that is missing.
   42. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2007 at 01:29 AM (#2403340)
Yeah, I'm sorry for lengthening this thread with politics on a baseball thread, which I heartily agree is the height of tiresome. But, then again, people like us like to talk. Shrug.

There are an awful lot of words in that argument that don't mention the Nazis. Every damned one of them, actually. If that's all you saw there, I can't really do anything about that.


In other hilarity, John Sterling, trying to make a point about Matsui being no trouble at all, said "You hear about certain wives being high-maintenance, well, Matsui's NO maintenance." Ha!
   43. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 14, 2007 at 01:42 AM (#2403353)
Lassus:

I read every word. And the statement would have been better sans that clause.

But enough of this. Two hard-headed souls who aren't going to budge.

Good evening.
   44. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2007 at 01:44 AM (#2403354)
You're probably right.

See, I CAN budge. I'm not high-maintenance. :D
   45. Jeff K. Posted: June 14, 2007 at 02:26 AM (#2403429)
As a loudmouth myself, I would be the hypocrite in the extreme in telling Marty the Great to hush unless I found his commentary to cross the proverbial line.

Exactly my point, as I'm in the same boat. That, and I've always seen you to be a pretty staunch defender of "let an idiot say whatever he wants".
   46. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 14, 2007 at 03:41 AM (#2403554)
I guess, then, that the old Arch McDonald home run call of "bombs over Tokyo" wouldn't go over so well any more....
   47. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 14, 2007 at 04:07 AM (#2403571)
They made Brennaman apologize to veterans, they made Keith Hernandez apologize to women, they made Bert Blyleven apologize for cursing... why, it's getting to be like a holocaust for announcers!

I stand with hat over heart for the anthem, and refuse to stand for "God Bless America" for about five different reasons, the least of which is that you're not supposed to treat any other song as if it was the national anthem.
   48. Jeff K. Posted: June 14, 2007 at 04:16 AM (#2403574)
I stand with hat over heart for the anthem, and refuse to stand for "God Bless America" for about five different reasons, the least of which is that you're not supposed to treat any other song as if it was the national anthem.

Yeah, I was at a Fort Worth Cats game recently, which is the first time since 2001 that I've been at a place where they played GBA, and I kept myself seated. I always stand for the anthem, as much out of respect for others there as out of respect for veterans (though I do spend the time during the anthem thinking about what other people have sacrificed for me, including both of my maternal grandparents), but GBA is pushing it.
   49. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: June 14, 2007 at 04:59 AM (#2403591)
I have and would fight again for a cause of freedom irrespective of its attachment to any tribe or nation state. I am thoroughly indifferent to the national anthem, but remain quiet (albeit seated) while it's played, regardless of country, out of respect for the feelings of people to whom it's meaningful. I do the same if I happen to: wander into a church during a service, go past a funeral service in a cemetery, or attend a meal before which grace is said, even though I happen not to have imaginary friends in high places.
   50. Esoteric Posted: June 14, 2007 at 05:33 AM (#2403601)
#8 - Black Coat:

The Reds offense is as hot as Dresden right now!
That double switch worked about as well for Narron as neutrality did for Belgium.


You started out disappointingly weak, but came on very strong in the second half.

Like the Soviet Union after Stalingrad.
   51. Snowboy Posted: June 14, 2007 at 06:14 AM (#2403607)
They made Brennaman apologize to veterans

Ohhh...I had to read all the way to #50 to find out what the apology was for. Upon reading the headline, I was split as to whether the apology would be for comparing baseball to war, or for reminding everyone that Japan was once a grim war enemy.
   52. An Athletic in Powderhorn, Silly Posted: June 14, 2007 at 01:19 PM (#2403668)
I've driven through Bataan at least a dozen times. I've never stopped there, but I know the area, I've seen the monument by the road. I've even discussed the Death March with a handful of Filipinos. The people I spoke to consider it just one of many brutal acts the Japanese committed during the war.

Still, I wouldn't compare a long road trip to the Death March in front a Filipino any more than I'd tell Iraq jokes in front of vets. I've only heard it as an analogy once, from someone who (more than once) confused the Pacific Theatre with the Great Star Theater. I didn't realize it had passed into pop culture.
   53. An Athletic in Powderhorn, Silly Posted: June 14, 2007 at 01:28 PM (#2403678)
Lassus: #37 is excellent. I can't find anything to disagree with in it, which rarely happens.

Harvey: I understand your view on standing for the National Anthem. I don't disagree with your reasoning, or with the sentiment that freedom is always worth respecting. I usually stand, not for the Anthem itself, but to avoid embarassing my friends sitting with me. I think being allowed to not stand for the Anthem is representitive of the freedom that it stands for.

I hope I haven't offended you, Harvey. You're one of my favorite posters. I just wanted to respectfully disagree.
   54. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 14, 2007 at 02:54 PM (#2403748)
You started out disappointingly weak, but came on very strong in the second half.

Like the Soviet Union after Stalingrad.


Ukraine not weak!
   55. 185/456(GGC) Posted: June 14, 2007 at 03:02 PM (#2403750)
Flip!
   56. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 14, 2007 at 03:11 PM (#2403759)
Folks, no need to tip-toe around your sentiments. If you believe in something BELIEVE IN SOMETHING.

Ergo, no apologies required for what you BELIEVE.

Should we disagree be prepared to engage in a spirited discussion. And while I may think your ARGUMENT is without merit it won't lessen my opinion of YOU.

That is where so much of the "noise" of this forum occurs. Posters who personalize the discussion. That by someone stating that they think their idea is lacking that this also means the poster is being told he or she is lacking. Which isn't correct or shouldn't be correct.

Anyway, fight the good fight.

Remember, it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
   57. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 14, 2007 at 03:59 PM (#2403808)
Remember, it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

As a fulltime fluffer for a major pornographic film studio, I find your closing comment incredibly offensive and hurtful.
   58. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: June 15, 2007 at 04:17 AM (#2404750)
"Remember, it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."


It's better to live on your feet, than die on your knees.

--Joseph Heller
   59. Jeff K. Posted: June 15, 2007 at 04:54 AM (#2404760)
It's better to live on your feet, than die on your knees.

While I appreciate the intended irony of this quote, let me say that I wholeheartedly disagree.
   60. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: June 15, 2007 at 04:54 AM (#2404761)
It's better to live on your feet, than die on your knees.

--Joseph Heller


"You're cursed"

-James Heller

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