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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Sunday, February 09, 2014Arizona Diamondbacks manager Kirk Gibson may have altered history for 2 leaguesWow! The most multi-something or another Kirk since Rahsaan Roland!
Repoz
Posted: February 09, 2014 at 06:33 AM | 59 comment(s)
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1. Jim WisinskiI heard former NBA center John Salley on the radio about a year ago, and he said, with absolute confidence, that he was a better basketball player, today, than most of the centers in the league. It was couched in "kids these days" terms, that nobody playing has the type of technique that they used to. John Salley is almost 50. He left the NBA when he was 30. He did make a comeback when he was 35. He averaged 1.8 points per game. About 15 years ago. He's a smart guy, but that might have been the dumbest damn thing I've ever heard.
Chris Johnson saying that he was faster than Usain Bolt was another.
When Gibson hit the home run off Eckersley, the 4-year-old Mark Zuckerberg was thrown to the floor in the commotion and wound up face down atop an open photo album. Pinned there for a half hour, he became deeply imprinted on the row of faces with captioned names beneath, and never lost the obsession.
If coach had me put me in, we would have won state. No doubt in my mind. Watch me throw this football over that mountain.
He helped the Spartans become one of the best offenses in the country by his senior season
He plays pretty much every game in college so unsure if there was something about baseball that created injury issues
Gibson would at minimum been a solid nfl player barring injury issues.
His college stats don't look like much but he ranked up there in catches, yards and yds per catch. He scored a fair number of tds
Gibson isn't my kind of manager but he is not totally full of it here
This is one of those FAs with a hyperbolic headline. Gibson: "I would have gone in the top five in the draft." TFH: "Gibson may have altered history." Makes it sound like he was guaranteed to be Jerry Rice, or something. Unfortunate.
I guess tracers only get run on writers who say they're in the Hall of Fame. (smile)
Gibson was never a first team All-American, and not too many players who weren't wind up as a #5 draft pick. The chances are about 99 in 100 he made the right choice in sticking to baseball.
1st round
5 - Jerry Butler, BUF
20 - Willis Adams, HOU
2nd round
29 - James Owens, SF
34 - Gordon Jones, TB
36 - Earnest Gray, NYG
39 - Rickey Watts, CHI
Butler was a Pro Bowler, Gray had a 78 catch season, the rest were mostly 3rd or 4th receivers or kick returners. I imagine that's what Gibson would have been, a solid 3rd receiver, maybe a 2nd option.
That's pretty dumb, but the all-time prize for stupidity is shared by Wilt Chamberlain and Jim Brown, in thinking they could have been a heavyweight boxing champion by beating Muhammad Ali. Mercifully for Wilt, that fight never got off the ground, but here's a description of what happened when Brown encountered Ali:
In 2001 during lunch I sat one table over from John Salley at the Ray's Pizza on 6th Avenue and 11th Street as he was trying to make a distribution deal with two guys for some girl he said would be the black Jenna Jameson. Thus endeth my John Salley story.
I'm sorry, what?
boy, you just gave me a horrible flashback--that was the pick of the immortal Tommy Prothro in his stint as personnel director for my Browns. His (bad) draft picks are legendary
1979 1st:Adams
1980 1st Charles White (cokehead)
Yeah, that almost *never* happened:
Draft Player AA?
1979 Jerry Butler No
1978 Terry Miller Yes
1977 Gary Jeter Yes
1976 Mike Haynes No
1975 Mack Mitchell No
1974 John Dutton Yes
1973 Dave Butz Yes
1972 Riley Odoms No
1971 Richard Harris No
1970 Al Cowlings No
Share more of the wisdom that can only be achieved by not following a sport, Mr. I-thought-the-College-Football-Playoff-started-*this*-year.
Here are his college stats.
Sports-reference.com lists him as 1st and 2nd in the Big 10 in catches in '76 and '78; 1st, 4th and 1st in receiving yards from '76-'78, 1st in receiving TD's in '75-'76 and 2nd in '77-'78. Played 11 games all four seasons. Pretty good college career.
Yeah, you're selling him short. He was already excelling. All American is a big deal. Not sure about his ability to stay on the field in gridiron, but the guy could play.
I'm not sure if you played competitive sports through your teens or even as a young adult, but I did. I played a few different sports with people who went to play semi professional. People who can achieve that level in sports or higher are just freakish in their hand/eye coordination, balance, timing and spacial awareness. It's insane how good a pro athlete is at pretty much any sport. Even a casual game of tennis, ping pong or golf is just ridiculous.
Anal. She was gonna do anal.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1094754/
"As far as the National Football League is concerned, it will be all right if Gibson never finds a bat. In the eyes of many scouts, he is the "best athlete available" in the upcoming draft, a 6'3", 225-pound wide receiver the Patriots' Bucko Kilroy says is the "first legitimate 4.2/40 white man we've timed." The Seattle Seahawks scouting staff says that on a l-to-8 rating scale, Gibson rates a 9."
"Gibson survived the football season, leading the Spartans to a tie for the Big Ten title, setting school and conference receiving records, starring in the Hula and Senior Bowls and making most All-America teams. Michigan State was on probation, however, and Gibson got no national television exposure, so people in East Lansing like to tell you that Gil Brandt of the Dallas Cowboys said Kirk Gibson should have won the Heisman."
Yeah, it sounds like I was.
Oh, I'm definitely aware of this.
These people are just blessed with a unique skill-set. Often, the blessings stop there.
I've written this before, but when I was outside Tiger Stadium (magnificent ballpark!!!!) the day of the last game, Gibson was walking around. People were booing, saying really nasty stuff and being downright hostile towards him. Not being from Michigan, I was stunned. I was under the impression that he was a real popular player. During the closing ceremonies, you definitely heard a smattering of boos.
I imagine that's what Gibson would have been, a solid 3rd receiver, maybe a 2nd option.
We'll never know but #1 receivers have to come from somewhere. There need to be 2-4 of those in each draft (on average). Your statement is surely true in the same sense that just about any non-#1 MLB draft pick is likely to produce less than 3 WAR (or whatever) but Gibson probably had a better chance of becoming a #1 NFL receiver than most of those other guys you listed.
The first 10 picks of the 79 draft:
Cousineau -- 66 games, 36 AV (whatever that is)
Mike Bell -- 135 games, 45 AV
Jack Thompson -- oops
Dan Hampton -- HoF, 101 AV
Butler -- 88 games, 35 AV
Barry Krauss -- 152 games, 47 AV
Phil Simms -- 165 games, 91 AV
Ottis Anderson -- 182 games, 82 AV
Al Harris -- 149 games, 49 AV (better than I remember apparently)
Keith Dorney -- 112, 47 AV
but who can forget #11 -- Russel Erxleben?
Gibson was a WR but the guy in that first round who strikes my addled brain as most similar is Kellen Winslow at the #13 pick.
I don't follow the NFL anymore or even that much ever. I'm guessing that's one of your better drafts all-time, at least for depth. The only bust in that top 10 is Thompson, only 4 busts in the top 26 with 2 HoFers plus Simms. Anyway, point being there probably was a good chance Gibson doesn't go top 5. If he punted a bit too, maybe the Saints would have taken him at #11. :-)
The Overthrowin' Samoan
1978 was better with 3 HOFers in the first round, plus a bunch of guys with AVs in the90's. 1980 had only 1 HOFer, but no outright busts. 1977 and 1981 were pretty bad, each with 5 guys worse than Erxleben.
frankly, think some folks are showing some knee jerk reactions versus using any critical thinking.
Certainly not me, Arkansas fan that I am. I have a vague memory of Erxleben & our Steve Cox both kicking FGs around 65 yards in the same game. (Or maybe Steve Little was our guy instead.)
They were both your guy. Little kicked the still-record 67-yard-field goal in a game against Erlexben's Longhorns, but Russell had set it earlier in the season. Both came when the NCAA allowed the use of a tee on FG attempts, though such an aid has been banned for a long time.
Cox was your kicker after Little.
Before Little, I believe, we had Bill McClard, one of the first college guys to covert a 60-yarder.
"Cox was your kicker after Little."
sequence being Little.... Cox
I looked that up a couple of weeks ago, actually, during a conversation with a co-worker who happens to share Cox's name (& is roughly his age, as of course is not the case with the former Tampa 1B).
-----------------------------------------------
Gibson was never a first team All-American, and not too many players who weren't wind up as a #5 draft pick.
Yeah, that almost *never* happened:
Draft--Player---- AA?
1979 Jerry Butler No
1978 Terry Miller Yes
1977 Gary Jeter Yes
1976 Mike Haynes No
1975 Mack Mitchell No
1974 John Dutton Yes
1973 Dave Butz Yes
1972 Riley Odoms No
1971 Richard Harris No
1970 Al Cowlings No
Share more of the wisdom that can only be achieved by not following a sport, Mr. I-thought-the-College-Football-Playoff-started-*this*-year.
Better to be temporarily ignorant than permanently so, and in this case the two of you have spared me the latter condition. Glad to be corrected about a player I've always admired, at least when he was a Tiger.
didn't call anyone out in particular. was just commenting
Is that development crazy good?
And for folks following during that time period (early 1980s), was Gibson obviously good early on and much heralded?
He was on the cover of SI in March of 1980 (filling the same role previously held by fellow Hot Topic occupant Clint Hurdle), when the Tigers gave him 1/2 of the starting centerfield job coming out of camp. The Tigers raved about his phenomenal athletic ability (as you can imagine, Mr. Anderson was at his Sparkiest).
"If a fifth-place ball club can't give a chance to a 22-year-old player," says Anderson, "then who can? Gibson might be as good an athlete as we've ever seen. He's a lot like Jabbar and Walton in basketball. He can turn this franchise around. If he doesn't, we're in trouble."
Adding, "he's got a chance to be among the greats - Jim Walewander, Torey Lovullo and Scott Lusader."
I don't think that made Jim Brown that much different from most heavyweight contenders at the time. That was just before he got exiled and just about to enter his prime. Nobody was hitting Ali very often during that time.
Of course, in Jackie's case he didn't really have pro football as an option.
Gibson was an All-American, he was invited to the Heisman Awards dinner his senior year, and he received the honor as the outstanding receiver in college football. Not sure why this is news. Gibson would have easily been a first round pick, and he was drafted by two NFL teams, one in his first year of eligibility, and another later when he had been in baseball for a few years.
He isn't "bragging" here, he's stating a fact.
He didn't suck rocks in college as a baseball player. Funny how a website dominated by folks who preach to everyone as if they're stupid if they don't understand sample size, judge a 21-year old kid on 50-60 college baseball games. Gibson was a stud athlete, probably one of the best natural athletes in baseball his entire career. he didn't suck at baseball, he didn't hit for a high average all the time, but he hit the ball a LONG WAY.
Earlier comment stated that based on watching "video" of Gibson running the bases he wouldn't have been a good football player. That is one of the stupidest things ever written on this website, which is saying a lot.
Of course, in Jackie's case he didn't really have pro football as an option.
Realistically you're right, given that Jackie signed with the Dodgers organization in October of 1945. But it's interesting to note that two of Jackie's UCLA teammates (Kenny Washington and Woody Strode) integrated the NFL when they played with the LA Rams six months before Jackie played his first game in Ebbets Field.
sosh covers it pretty well but will just add that every manager asked about Gibson spoke of him in gushing tones because of the combination of speed and strength.
what's forgotten today is that Gibson had a serious wrist injury early in his baseball career that almost ended said career. it's the type of thing that likely would have been a nothing injury in football but hitting and wrists are intertwined. it flared up throughout his career.
#24, that response you observed to Gibson is odd. By contrast, when I was at the Tiger playoff games in Arlington in '11, there were any number of fans walking around with Gibson jerseys, happy to be chat about good times with State and the '84 Tigers. Maybe just the vagaries of sample size in each case.
I'm old enough to remember when Gibson first came up. So when he says he would have been a top 5 pick in football, I don't look at it as bragging or bluster. Just an honest statement of fact.
Consider that he was the #12 overall pick in baseball, and he was unquestionably a better college football player than he was a baseball player.
hehe
I'm sorry, what?
Anal. She was gonna do anal.
Hmm, if she was going to be a black Jenna Jameson, then good news for her, no anal required!
I figured someone would chime in with that, but the cause and effect was the other way around. Jackie actually signed with the Dodgers on August 28, 1945. The Rams integrated as a direct result of the tremendous publicity generated by Jackie's signing with Brooklyn. But if you look at it superficially, it looks like the NFL integrated first, simply because almost two years elapsed between Robinson's signing and his MLB debut.
As he was starting to play his second season of pro baseball. The Cardinals secured his rights with a pick they could afford to splurge on, but it's not like they really expected him to sign.
The same round the Raiders drafted Heisman winner Bo Jackson.
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