He probably knew he wasn't going to be on the ALDS roster, even though Boone said that hadn't been determined yet, the fact they wanted him to throw BP is a pretty good indication actually, and he just said eff it.

Had he been a good team guy maybe he would have got back on roster for the ALCS if they made it that far, but it ain't happening now.

How many millions has this cost him in free agency ? I'd think quite a few.

Along with quite a few HoF votes. Remaining 100 saves behind Wagner means no real chance.

Looking at their best 10 consecutive seasons and also stretching it out to best 12 consecutive seasons Wagner quite clearly the better regular season reliever, not only by saves, but ERA+, WAR, WPA, etc.

But Wagner's failures in the post season, no matter how small the sample, loom large in his narrative. Chapman, despite getting walked off by Altuve in 2019, has a pretty decent post season track record.

Chapman would have needed a pretty big bounce back in 2023 and for a few seasons to get back on a HOF track. But that train has gone off the rails.

Chapman is currently in Miami after the Yankees asked him to stay away from the team for now.

Can I p!ss off the Yankees and get sent to Miami? (Like, say, in January...?)

He's been good recently, he'll get a fine offer.

But that we're seriously talking about HOF track for a 34 year old with 19 career WAR is pretty good indication of how absurd putting relievers into the hall is.

The Yankees bullpen was already a bit thIn, with Chad Green, Michael King & Ron Marinaccio out, but the playoff schedule should allow the 4th & 5th starters (presumably Jameson Taillon & Domingo German) to bolster the bullpen a bit, if needed. A healthy & effective Clay Homes will help, too, and there is some lingering uncertainty there.

Generally a terrible year for the old closer guard -- Kimbrel, Jansen, Chapman and Melancon ranged from bad to passable. All will get chances next year but not for big money (I wouldn't think). Kimbrel and Jansen are just short of 400 saves but are both quite long shots to match Smith's 478 and it's hard for me to see a closer making the HoF via BBWAA without at least matching that. (I probably shouldn't rule out Wagner yet.)

Wagner 903 IP, 187 ERA+, 422 saves, 28 WAR
Kimbrel 688 IP, 177 ERA+, 394 saves, 22 WAR
Jansen 769 IP, 159 ERA+, 391 saves, 20 WAR

It's hard for relievers to accumulate WAR in current usage. Jansen has just 4.3 over the last 5 seasons; Kimbrel just 4.1. Jansen can catch Wagner in saves and maybe IP but is pretty hopelessly behind in ERA+ and WAR -- basically he needs three dominant seasons to catch him, equal to the three best of his career to have any shot. Kimbrel is worse off in IP but better off in WAR and ERA+ -- his chances are probably a bit better in that he's had 6 big seasons and needs just 2 more to pull even with Wagner.

I suppose since modern closers never get a chance to accumulate innings and therefore Rrep, there is actually a case that they might be better compared to other HoFers via WAA. It still doesn't work well for them -- Jansen 11, Kimbrel 12, Wagner 16.5. Even Tony Perez made it to 18 WAA, Rice 19. Brock had just 8 though, Lemon 15, Catfish 6. That might be the best case to make for guys like this. (FWIW, Mo made it to 32.5; Eck to 30; but a guy like Sutter just 11.)

If that is persuasive (I'm not really trying to persuade here) then maybe the best comparison is to Cs who have a natural limit to how much replacement value they can accumulate. Simmons had 19 WAA (which under-rates him), Munson 25, Freehan 21 and Piazza 36 -- closers still aren't close other than Mo.

(FWIW, Mo made it to 32.5; Eck to 30; but a guy like Sutter just 11.)

23 of Eck's WAA came as a starter. Eck is in the Hall due to his closer years, where he got just 17 WAR and 7.6 WAA.

Scumbag doesn't deserve a single HOF vote. A guy who does what he did outside of baseball doesn't deserve to be in it at all. Mix in his lack of effort on a playoff team and I can't see why anyone would go near him now. A toxic player to be avoided ala Roberto Osuna (pretty bad guy as well, led the league in saves in 2019, injured in 2020 and now plays in the Mexican league despite being under 30 with a live arm).

#8: Sure, I assume everybody here knows that (roughly speaking). I don't see the point really -- Mo is the ultimate closer, Eck is the ultimate hybrid starter/reliever, the first half of his career as a very good starter then a few years as a dominant reliever then a few years as an average reliever. His 30 WAA are roughly comparable to Dick Allen, Joe Torre, Luis Tiant or CC ... as is his 62 WAR. Eck pitched from age 20 (full season) to age 43 (about 2/3 of a season), lord only knows what his WAA might be if he'd spent it all as a closer but it would be a healthy total.

Kimbrel, Jansen, Chapman and Melancon

I mean, Jansen hasn't really been himself since his heart surgery, if not before. Even last year, which looked sort of like a regular Kenley year, featured the worst BB/9 of his career and K rates well off his peak.

Jansen's a great story and once upon a time he was a very exciting player to watch. But he hasn't been an excellent reliever in years.

closers still aren't qualified other than possibly Mo.

I cleaned up that sentence for you.

Vindication for Walt Jocketty!

Not directly related, but its fun news for me, and at least related to the topic of closers. I'm likely meeting Trevor Hoffman at an event in DC next month, and this will complete my "Save Leader Tic Tac Toe." I got to catch Lee Smith in a charity game about 15-20 years ago, and happened to share a flight with Mariano Rivera 5 years ago.

happened to share a flight with Mariano Rivera 5 years ago.

You mean Mariano Rivera can't fly with just the power of his mind?

#15 He can. He just doesn't like to show off.

#15 He can. He just doesn't like to show off.

I think they were holding him back for a save situation.

Chapman's HOF case is even less impressive than I expected. He never led the league in saves and his career high is only 38. His ERA is good, but not eye-popping (2.48, 167 ERA+). Only 640 IP ... no way he makes a second ballot.