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Friday, August 07, 2020

A’s bench coach sorry for ‘unintentionally’ making apparent Nazi salute

Oakland Athletics bench coach Ryan Christenson apologized Thursday for “unintentionally” making a gesture resembling a Nazi salute following the A’s win over the Texas Rangers.

Christenson was seen on camera extending his right arm in the air as the team was making its way off the field, engaging in an elbow bump celebration with coaches.

Closer Liam Hendriks could be seen correcting Christenson’s gesture so it fit what the rest of the team was doing. Christenson then turned around and repeated the gesture.

“No, no straight arm, you have to bend your elbow,” Christenson said Hendriks told him, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. “Oh, I see what you mean, oh no, it’s like ‘Heil Hitler.’

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 07, 2020 at 09:33 AM | 119 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: ryan christenson

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   101. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: August 10, 2020 at 06:31 PM (#5968910)
Stiggles, you realize you could actually be spending your time taking actions against racism and volunteering in a real way, person to person, instead of posting on a baseball forum about it all day right? Since we are basically all old white Nazi-apologizers, it seems like your time would be better spent actually doing something instead of drawing conclusions about a thing one baseball player did and arguing with anyone that disagrees with *your opinion.* You are the yin to SBB's yang.

you've posted twice in this thread, each time only to call me out. thank you for your service.
   102. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: August 10, 2020 at 08:40 PM (#5968930)
I can't speak to his sanity.

Clearly has none.
   103. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: August 10, 2020 at 08:53 PM (#5968932)
As I noted in #7 above I'm willing to give Christenson the benefit of the doubt here. But some of the arguments I'm seeing here are nonsense. This is a ####### Nazi salute. If I accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake at a stoplight and rearend the car in front of me I'm getting punished.


In what way would you be punished for the accident (if it was just a simple mistake as you describe above and not DUI/reckless/texting/etc.)?


I will have to pay for damage to my vehicle and the vehicle I hit as well as any injuries people suffered. My insurance rates are likely to go up and I may also be cited for violation of any number of laws depending on the exact circumstances. It's not the death penalty but it's not nothing. Likewise while I don't think Christenson should be fired here (caveats apply etc....) I think a fine/suspension is more than reasonable.
   104. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: August 10, 2020 at 09:15 PM (#5968939)
Clearly has none.

gaslighting is a hell of a drug.
   105. Tin Angel Posted: August 10, 2020 at 09:20 PM (#5968940)
you've posted twice in this thread, each time only to call me out. thank you for your service.


Yes, I felt the need to point out the utterly delusional, immature, and plain stupid argument of yours that essentially breaks down to "If you don't agree with my take you're a Nazi sympathizer!1!" But again, I am sure you are out there in the real world doing real work in between posting your political beliefs to BBTF 50 times a day and calling people names who have the crazy belief that there is actually a bit of nuance to the world.
   106. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: August 10, 2020 at 09:23 PM (#5968941)
this is absolutely correct; actions have no consequences, and all that matters is what you're willing to admit is in your nazi saluting heart.
case in point.

the video is extremely clear: it's a nazi salute. if you want to argue that it's fine to do that in trump's america, feel free; if you want to argue he didn't know he was saluting nazis, again feel free; if you want to argue that he was just trying to be funny, sure, go for it; but you can't ####### say that the skinhead wasn't saluting nazis. that hot dog is not a sandwich.
i tell you what: let's see his internet history and then we'll talk.
19. Tin Angel Posted: August 07, 2020 at 02:26 PM (#5968312)
Stiggles, you really need to develop a hobby other than being outraged online.
i'm done with you. go #### yourself.
   107. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: August 10, 2020 at 09:33 PM (#5968943)
for everyone else:

i don't expect perfection, but when someone throws up a nazi salute, i expect a higher degree of scrutiny than 5 old white guys getting together and telling me it's fine.
   108. SoSH U at work Posted: August 10, 2020 at 09:50 PM (#5968948)
i'm done with you. go #### yourself.


Three days ago, Never Gave an Inge said this:

I'm in the camp of let's wait and see if anything else comes out about him over the next 48 hours or so before we buy that it was just an honest mistake.


To which you replied:

I would say that's fair.

this kind of thing is not often an isolated incident, and if there's a pattern of behavior, it tends to come out*.


And what happened? Nothing. Nothing else has emerged in 72 hours to indicate that this was a pattern of behavior. But now, what was fair on Friday is no longer good enough for you. Not only that, you're insulting everyone for whom it is good enough.

There's someone here who needs to have sexual congress with himself, and it ain't ####### Tin Angel.
   109. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: August 10, 2020 at 10:14 PM (#5968952)
And what happened? Nothing. Nothing else has emerged in 72 hours to indicate that this was a pattern of behavior. But now, what was fair on Friday is no longer good enough for you. Not only that, you're insulting everyone for whom it is good enough.

you cut off a fair bit of context there:
i would say that's fair.

this kind of thing is not often an isolated incident, and if there's a pattern of behavior, it tends to come out*.


*although i'm pretty sure the rona also makes this kind of thing harder to dig into as reporting resources are being spread thinner and thinner.

and for further context, from two posts after the one you so fairly misquoted:
this incident is evidence (not proof, mind you; but it is evidence) that he cannot be trusted with managerial oversight of minority subordinates (players), which is one of his key responsibilities as bench coach. therefore, unless there's a damn good reason not to remove him, he should be removed.

if as you say, nothing has come out in the last 72 fair hours, then why would you think i'd change my fairly and clearly stated opinion that he should be removed.
   110. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: August 10, 2020 at 10:18 PM (#5968953)
Not only that, you're insulting everyone for whom it is good enough.
as for this canard, it's not everyone.

have i insulted you in some way yet?


and btw, the insults are not one-sided, and although i am a willing combatant, i also did not throw the first (or second, or third) stone.
Stiggles, you really need to develop a hobby other than being outraged online.
To put it another way, just because Stiggles is an outright fascist, I don't want him to lose his livelihood or his voice. Every word that comes out of his mouth is like an in-kind contribution to the Trump re-election campaign. Keep it coming.
Man get some help, seriously. No one should be as angry as you are. It's unhealthy.
It's a meta comment. Stiggles is enraged in every thread, about everything. Even with everything going on in 2020, his level of vitriol is unwarranted and unhealthy. Hate is bad for you, even hatred of legitimately hatable people.
Stiggles posts like an a-hole; acknowledges that he is widely thought to be an a-hole, even by those whose political positions overlaps his, because of what he posts here; yet continues to post like an a-hole. He just might be an a-hole.
Re 73: Stiggles is one of the very few people I have on ignore, cuz boy be crazay. I'd appreciate not being lumped in with him, thanks.
   111. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 10, 2020 at 10:21 PM (#5968954)
Stiggles didn’t need evidence on Friday, and he doesn’t need evidence today.
   112. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: August 11, 2020 at 01:40 AM (#5968980)
Stiggles didn’t need evidence on Friday, and he doesn’t need evidence today.


Can someone get him a working Shift-key, though?
   113. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 11, 2020 at 01:54 AM (#5968981)
I will have to pay for damage to my vehicle and the vehicle I hit as well as any injuries people suffered. My insurance rates are likely to go up and I may also be cited for violation of any number of laws depending on the exact circumstances. It's not the death penalty but it's not nothing. Likewise while I don't think Christenson should be fired here (caveats apply etc....) I think a fine/suspension is more than reasonable.

Perhaps you’ll say I’m splitting hairs here, but paying damages is not “punishment“ unless they’re punitive damages. IANAL but I think those would only be assessed if it were determined that there was some sort of intent/recklessness in your actions, not for your typical car accident even if you are at fault*. Your insurance rates would increase because you would be judged an increased risk to insure. Again, that’s not punitive in nature even though it may feel that way. I don’t see a suspension/fine as a good parallel to that but as I said, YMMV.

* if you change the hypothetical to one where you actually violated laws, then yes you may be punished.

I find it pretty implausible that a team owned by a Jewish guy, with a Jewish GM (pretty sure David Forst is Jewish; his son is named Judah) and a Jewish manager, would employ a guy they believed to be a Nazi sympathizer. Maybe he’s managed to fool them all, or maybe they’re all the kind of Jews who like Nazis, but it seems unlikely to me.
   114. . Posted: August 11, 2020 at 11:13 AM (#5969022)
The "idea" underlying this absurdity, i.e., that American life is replete with hidden Nazis in positions of authority, who if sufficient attention and "analysis" is devoted to the project, will reveal themselves as such is delusional and insane. It's unfortunate that the internet has grown up to give that insanity a degree of social support, as opposed to more sane times in which it would have been reduced to solo street corner screaming and the like -- if not some degree of analysis and/or commitment.

(There's no need to start with "But what about Trump?!?!?!," as I give less than zero ##### about all that. I'm not suggesting there isn't some degree of freedom to believe delusions and insanity. But there are a number of people out there who shouldn't let the internet trick them into thinking they aren't nuts.)
   115. Lassus Posted: August 11, 2020 at 11:31 AM (#5969029)
Heh.
   116. Greg Pope Posted: August 11, 2020 at 11:57 AM (#5969035)
Maybe he’s managed to fool them all

This is the thing. If he's a Nazi sympathizer, then he's fooled everybody up until now. He's presented to his employers as a normal guy, and been in a profession where he's in the public eye a lot, and never shown* this side of himself. And then at the end of a baseball game, that has no fans in attendance, during an elbow bump presentation with his teammates that is filmed, he decides to signal to the world that he's a follower of Hitler. How does this seem plausible to anyone?

*He didn't just crawl out from under a rock. If he had done things before, we would have heard about them before.
   117. KronicFatigue Posted: August 11, 2020 at 12:45 PM (#5969048)
Last page someone said "someone's 2nd chance comes at the expense of other people's first chance" and it's something I've felt (in a less articulated way) many years before cancel culture became a thing. I've never understood being overly protective of someone's position when it's a zero sum game. If Christenson gets fired, there's a slew of promotions that ripple out because of it. His life is worse, but other people's lives are better. And of all those people, only one made the mistake.

If it was just an honest mistake, then the punishment doesn't fit the crime. He'd be unlucky, for sure, but there's probably a ton of luck involved in him getting to where he was at in the first place.
   118. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: August 11, 2020 at 01:59 PM (#5969065)
he decides to signal to the world that he's a follower of Hitler
nazi symbology has been appropriated and assimilated into many other far right hate movements across the world, and in this country (#unitethewhite). it isn't ever just about anti-semitism.
How does this seem plausible to anyone?
because it is. i'm not saying you should accuse all of your friends being con artists, but when something trips the sensor, you need to step back and raise the level of scrutiny.
*He didn't just crawl out from under a rock. If he had done things before, we would have heard about them before.
also possible:
-- he only expresses his true views online, under pseudonyms.
-- he insulates himself from people who would take offense at his true opinions.
-- he's been newly radicalized over the last 6 months.
-- noone is able to look into his background because of pandemic restrictions.


also: it's deeply insidious to shift the burden of proof onto random unknown victims (or just bystanders), who aren't employed by the as, who would be stepping out of obscurity to put a target on their own back, for no meaningful benefit, to lob out an accusation that is as likely to be believed as it is to be labeled as he-said/they-said.
   119. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 11, 2020 at 02:30 PM (#5969069)
Oops, wrong thread.
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