Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, September 13, 2021

Athletics Hall of Fame inducts 10 members of Philadelphia A’s

As for the 2021 class, all 10 inductees are also members of baseball’s overall Hall of Fame. Click each name to read their full biographies from SABR, or click here for concise capsules from the A’s official site.

Owner/Manager Connie Mack
RHP Chief Bender
LHP Lefty Grove
LHP Eddie Plank
LHP Rube Waddell
C Mickey Cochrane
1B Jimmie Foxx
2B Eddie Collins
3B Frank Baker
OF Al Simmons
Mack spent a half-century as the A’s manager, from their first season in 1901 through 1950, which is the longest stint for any coach with the same team in North American pro sports history. He was also a part-owner of the club for their entire tenure in Philadelphia.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 13, 2021 at 10:04 PM | 40 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: athletics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Rough Carrigan Posted: September 13, 2021 at 10:07 PM (#6039546)
I don't see how you could argue with any of those choices.
   2. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 13, 2021 at 10:17 PM (#6039549)
Laying the ground work for a threatened move back to Philadelphia if the stadium dispute isn’t resolved to the A’s satisfaction?
   3. SoSH U at work Posted: September 13, 2021 at 11:13 PM (#6039560)
That's a hell of a class.
   4. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 13, 2021 at 11:26 PM (#6039561)
Is Eddie Collins' plaque going to have a White Sox cap on it?
   5. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 13, 2021 at 11:49 PM (#6039562)
Glad to see a team recognize its early history, and those are all excellent selections.
   6. Howie Menckel Posted: September 14, 2021 at 12:03 AM (#6039563)
pretty sure team HOFs are for players who didn't get to Cooperstown but are beloved nonetheless.

went to Citi Field a couple of weeks ago for the Mets retiring Jerry Koosman's jersey. he won 222 games, and almost 150 w the Mets. not a HOFer but a great player.

this seems a bit silly.

why not also induct a couple of Koosman-esque choices - if still living, even better - along with these long-dead HOFers?
   7. sanny manguillen Posted: September 14, 2021 at 12:13 AM (#6039565)
I believe the team never retired any numbers for Philadelphia or KC guys?
   8. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: September 14, 2021 at 12:35 AM (#6039567)
So they decided their 9 players were so great and the pitching so awesome that as a team they only need 1 outfielder!Z(yes, I know it wasn't chosen by position...)
   9. Walt Davis Posted: September 14, 2021 at 03:00 AM (#6039572)
Howie, they have already done some of that. They only started the HoF in 2018, this is just a recognition of their pre-Oak history. They have inducted Blue, Campy, Mac and Stewart (along with their modern HoFers). By 2030 if not earlier, I suspect they'll be to the point of inducting Dwayne Murphy and Carney Lansford. If they weren't shy about inducting Mac, will they induct Canseco?

I am pretty sure that nearly every team HoF has used the first few years to induct their national HoFers then they get around to the Koosmans.

EDIT: The Mets started theirs in 1981 before they had any national HoFers. I assume they have some retirement criteria since the first 2 players inducted were Harrelson and Staub then Seaver the next year ... then Koosman. The Mets starting a HoF 20 years into their existence is pretty ridiculous. The A's seem to have started this one nearly 120 years after their existence so they have a bit of catching up to do.

EDIT2: Edgardo Alfonso?
   10. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 14, 2021 at 08:35 AM (#6039580)
The Mets started theirs in 1981 before they had any national HoFers. I assume they have some retirement criteria since the first 2 players inducted were Harrelson and Staub then Seaver the next year ... then Koosman. The Mets starting a HoF 20 years into their existence is pretty ridiculous.

It's pretty amazing that a team that's been around for 60 years still has only one actual Hall of Famer who came up and spent his best years with that team.
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: September 14, 2021 at 09:01 AM (#6039583)
Isn’t that one more than the Angels (for now), the same as the Sens/Rangers and one fewer than the Stros. It seems right in line with their brethren, rather than amazing.
   12. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 14, 2021 at 10:44 AM (#6039597)
It's pretty amazing that a team that's been around for 60 years still has only one actual Hall of Famer who came up and spent his best years with that team.


I believe the leading expansion franchise according to this criteria would be the Expos, remarkably enough, with three (Carter, Raines, Dawson).
   13. Ned Garvin: Male Prostitute Posted: September 14, 2021 at 11:08 AM (#6039600)
Those teams had quite a head start on the Mariners, who are also a living joke of a franchise. But even the Mariners have Edgar, Griffey, and Ichiro. Alex Rodriguez had his best years with the Mariners, but spent a lot more time in New York. Randy Johnson pitched more in Seattle than anywhere else, but had his developmental years in Seattle and his best years in Arizona. I wouldn't put a Mariners cap on either of those guys in the HOF, but they're not too far off. So even Seattle has 3+ guys like that.
   14. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 14, 2021 at 11:11 AM (#6039602)
I believe the leading expansion franchise according to this criteria would be the Expos, remarkably enough, with three (Carter, Raines, Dawson).
And Guerrero.
   15. Booey Posted: September 14, 2021 at 11:25 AM (#6039604)
Ah, #14 beat me to it. I know Vlad Sr has an Angels cap on his HOF plaque, but he played 8 years and had 34.7 WAR as an Expo, and 8 years and 24.8 WAR elsewhere (6 years and 22.8 WAR as a Halo). His top 3 seasons by WAR were all as a 'Spo.
   16. GregD Posted: September 14, 2021 at 11:38 AM (#6039605)
As also did a fifty for fifty celebration a few years ago for their fiftieth year in Oakland. The fan voting was somewhat comical—Dallas Braden is a local hero but as he himself said not a deserving recipient. I think it’s great to find different ways to honor very good or popular local players. I also think it’s fine for teams to only retire numbers of players who get in the HOF. Fifty for fifty Oakland As
   17. The Duke Posted: September 14, 2021 at 12:09 PM (#6039608)
Expos have a rich history. They’d have Staub, Steve Rogers, Pedro, Larry walker, the big unit, Tim Wallach as team inductees. I’m sure there are others
   18. sanny manguillen Posted: September 14, 2021 at 12:27 PM (#6039611)
Timing: Bob Johnson out-bWAR'd Baker and Cochrane for the A's. Eddie Rommell out-bWAR'd Bender or Waddell.
   19. crict Posted: September 14, 2021 at 12:48 PM (#6039618)
I don't know if that list is accurate, but apparently the players in the Expos HOF are (were?) Carter, Staub, Claude Raymond, Rogers, Woody Fryman, Bill Stoneman, Warren Cromartie, Ron Hunt, Larry Parrish, Dawson, Bill Gullickson, Jeff Reardon, Tim Burke, Chris Speier, Wallach and Raines. Looks like once MLB took over, the team was only allowed to have cheap ceremonies for broadcasters, as Raines appear to be the last player elected in 2000. I'm guessing that over the years most of the 1994 team (Pedro, Walker, Alou, Grissom, Ken Hill, Wetteland) would have been elected. Vlad, Dennis Martinez, Jose Vidro, Rondell White would have been no-brainers. Maybe Brad Wilkerson and Livan Hernandez.
   20. Booey Posted: September 14, 2021 at 03:48 PM (#6039645)
#10-11 - Not only with expansion teams, but I'd guess several of the older teams only have 1 or 2 HOFers in the last 60 years that fit that criteria too. For example, unless I'm missing someone obvious, aren't Jeter and Rivera the only Yankee HOFers* in that span who came up with the team and spent their best years there?

*Lots of additional borderline and HOVG players, of course (Munson, Guidry, Mattingly, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada)
   21. SoSH U at work Posted: September 14, 2021 at 04:35 PM (#6039656)
They’d have Staub, Steve Rogers, Pedro, Larry walker, the big unit, Tim Wallach as team inductees.


I'm not sure 11 games is really enough to earn a spot in the team's Hall of Fame.
   22. SoSH U at work Posted: September 14, 2021 at 04:56 PM (#6039660)
Not only with expansion teams, but I'd guess several of the older teams only have 1 or 2 HOFers in the last 60 years that fit that criteria too.


Since 1960, off the top of my head, so I'm sure I'm missing some.

Yankees: Jeter, Rivera
Red Sox: Yaz, Rice, Boggs and Mookie as an active
Blue Jays: Halladay
Orioles: Mussina, Ripken, Murray, Palmer,
Rays: None

White Sox: Thomas
Indians: Thome
Royals: Brett and Greinke as an active (it wasn't really his best work, but he accrued the most value there as he spent the longest stretch in KC).
Twins: Puckett, Blyleven, Carew and not yet Mauer
Tigers: Trammell, Morris and active Verlander

Angels: Active Trout
Mariners: Martinez, Griffey, not yet Ichiro
A's: Hunter, Jackson, Fingers, Henderson
Rangers: Rodriguez
Astros: Bagwell, Biggio

Braves: Jones, Glavine, Smoltz, Niekro
Mets: Seaver
Phillies: Schmidt and not yet Rolen
Marlins: None
Expos: Raines, Carter, Guerrero, Dawson

Cubs: Jenkins, Santo, Sutter
Cardinals: None (is that possible?) active Pujols, Molina
Pirates: Stargell
Brewers: Yount, Molitor
Reds: Bench, Larkin, active Votto

Dodgers: Piazza, Sutton
Giants; Marichal, Perry
Padres: Gwynn
Rockies: Not yet Helton
Diamondbacks: None on the horizon


   23. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#6039664)
Cardinals: None (is that possible?) active Pujols, Molina


They have Simmons now. And I guess you're using 1961 as a cutoff to signal the expansion era, which just eliminates Gibson, who came up in 1959 and had his first big year in 1961.
   24. Walt Davis Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:07 PM (#6039667)
Cubs: you missed Sandberg and whatever bits of Maddux (who you missed on the Braves) and Dawson you want to credit us with. I guess we'll count Ernie as pre-60.

Cards: Ozzie at least

Padres: Winfield
   25. Booey Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:21 PM (#6039669)
Walt - The "came up with the team" qualifier eliminates Sandberg (barely!) and Dawson, and the "had his best years/produced the most value with the team" qualifier eliminates Maddux for the Cubs (and his beginning with the Cubs makes him ineligible for the Braves).

Ozzie doesn't count for the Cards since he started with the Pads. Winfield should count for SD, though.
   26. SoSH U at work Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:22 PM (#6039670)
Cubs: you missed Sandberg and whatever bits of Maddux (who you missed on the Braves) and Dawson you want to credit us with. I guess we'll count Ernie as pre-60.

Cards: Ozzie at least


No, Andy's comment mentioned coming up with and having their best years there. Sandberg (barely) and Ozzie (clearly) came up elsewhere, and Maddux obviously had his best years with Atlanta.

Winfield and Simmons would count.
   27. Booey Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:27 PM (#6039674)
Posey is an active one for the Giants, as is Kershaw for the Dodgers.

'Roids cost the A's McGwire, the Red Sox Clemens, and the Yankees Cano (active).

Andruw is making progress on the ballot and could be another for the Braves.
   28. SoSH U at work Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:30 PM (#6039675)
'Roids cost the A's McGwire, the Red Sox Clemens, and the Yankees Cano (active).


And gambling cost the Reds Rose.
   29. Booey Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:32 PM (#6039676)
Baines - White Sox
Lee Smith - Cubs

(I know, I know!)
   30. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:36 PM (#6039678)
No, Andy's comment mentioned coming up with and having their best years there.
That might eliminate Betts from the list in #23. Check back in 5 years. Maybe again in 10.
   31. Booey Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:38 PM (#6039679)
Fisk - Red Sox
Perez - Reds

I think that's it for current HOFers.

(Yes, I'm cheating and looking them up at this point)
   32. SoSH U at work Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:42 PM (#6039680)
That might eliminate Betts from the list in #23. Check back in 5 years. Maybe again in 10.


Not likely, but surely possible.
   33. SoSH U at work Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:46 PM (#6039682)
So the most, with four, were the Braves, Red Sox, Reds, A's, Expos and Orioles, with Atlanta the best chance to hit five first. The Mets don't look too bad from that perspective.

   34. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:46 PM (#6039683)
Among long range projections, I’m less certain that Juan Soto will have “his best years/produced the most value” with the Nationals than whether he’ll make the Hall of Fame. He’s hanging out in elite company so far.
   35. Booey Posted: September 14, 2021 at 05:51 PM (#6039685)
#33 - Replace Reds (just 3; Bench, Larkin, Perez) with Cubs (Santo, Jenkins, Sutter, L.Smith).

Although Sutter and Smith combined should really only count as one... ;-)
   36. Sweatpants Posted: September 15, 2021 at 01:12 AM (#6039753)
Ferguson Jenkins, like Ryne Sandberg after him, came up through the Phillies organization before getting traded to the Cubs in short order.
   37. Walt Davis Posted: September 15, 2021 at 03:26 AM (#6039762)
Sorry, I wasn't paying enough attention to the criteria and clearly Ozzie doesn't count. I'm also not sure the difference between trading for a guy just before his MLB debut (Bagwell, never played a game in the minors for the Astros) versus after his cup of coffee (Sandberg) is a distinction important to anybody but won't worry about it -- a list is a list.

But while I'm not worrying ... Perry raises the question of what we mean by "best years". He had more innings and WAR with the Giants than anybody else but both are only about 40% of his total while he actually had more WAA in Cleveland where he only pitched half as many innings as SF. So his "best" years were in Cleveland and he didn't even have the majority of his value in SF.

Blyleven gives a similar impression -- clearly a Twin in his case but it's still (just over) half his career IP, WAR, WAA and wins and about 1/3 of that Twins time (but not value) was his 2nd go-round. He's as much a non-Twin (but not a specific other thing) as he is a Twin and he was pretty much the same pitcher throughout his career (part of the reason he had a hard time with the HoF). Rickey also seems a bit outside the spirit of it -- that first stint with Oak is only about 25% of his PAs (higher in WAR/WAA), it's really that 2nd stint that defines him as a "career A." Not wanting to move the goalposts but it seems to me something like "spent at least the first half of their career with ..." is more in the spirit.

The list points out to me that I mis-remember the 2nd half of some guys' careers. I would have pegged Molitor as a Brewer but I wouldn't have thought it was 8400+ PA and I thought that he had more seasons outside Milw than he did (just 6) so, given how often he was hurt, I thought the PA might be close. Similarly for Sutton -- a Dodger for sure but 16 seasons and >3800 innings?? I didn't think it was that long.

Just angels on heads of pins stuff, that list in #22 is way better than I could have done off the top of my head.

   38. SoSH U at work Posted: September 15, 2021 at 08:03 AM (#6039764)
I had no idea Fergie was a Phil before he was a Cub. Scratch him.

I'm also not sure the difference between trading for a guy just before his MLB debut (Bagwell, never played a game in the minors for the Astros) versus after his cup of coffee (Sandberg) is a distinction important to anybody but won't worry about it -- a list is a list.


Just because you have to draw the line somewhere, and we've always drawn it there. Bagwell is considered someone who spent his entire career in an Astros uniform. Sandberg is not considered having done so with the Cubs.


   39. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: September 15, 2021 at 01:22 PM (#6039813)
I don't see how you could argue with any of those choices.

Hey, they called Simmons "Bucketfoot" for a reason! Come at me, bro...!

Just for fun (based on WAR), here's my all-KC A's team, based solely on their years in Missouri:

1B - Norm Seibern (11.2 WAR, one of only two KC A's in double digits)
2B - Jerry Lumpe
3B - Ed Charles (14.4 WAR, the KC A's all-time leader)
SS - Wayne Causey (3rd all-time with 9.6 WAR)
UT - Hector Lopez (4th all-time with 9.5 WAR), Bert Campaneris (only 6.6 WAR in 500 G)
LF - Bob Cerv
CF - Bill Tuttle
RF - Roger Maris (remember him? 4.2 WAR in 221 G in KC)
C - Hal Smith (back-up catcher: Harry Chiti, the man who was traded for himself)

SP - Ray Herbert (leader with 7.9 WAR...and a 37-48 record and a 95 ERA+!), Ned Garver, Bud Daley, Orlando Pena and Catfish Hunter (he was 19 to 21 years old)
RP - John Wyatt (6.9 WAR and a KC A's-record 72 saves), Tom Gorman, Jack Aker and Virgil Trucks (138 ERA+ in 138 IP in 1957-58...when he was past 40!)

   40. Jesse Barfield's Right Arm Posted: September 15, 2021 at 04:52 PM (#6039851)
Could argue Rolen has his "best years" with St. Louis. Also, given current leanings, I think Utley will have a chance to go in.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Andere Richtingen
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(14052 - 6:25am, Sep 22)
Last: .

NewsblogRays grab data card shaken loose from Kirk's wrist, deny Blue Jays' request to return it
(5 - 1:42am, Sep 22)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogKansas City Royals' Salvador Perez breaks Johnny Bench's catcher record with 46th HR
(57 - 1:04am, Sep 22)
Last: baxter

NewsblogVeteran catcher Alex Avila to retire at end of year
(22 - 11:43pm, Sep 21)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogNBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread
(4491 - 11:31pm, Sep 21)
Last: Hombre Brotani

NewsblogWEEKDAY OMNICHATTER wants you to believe in yourself, for September 20, 2021
(45 - 11:16pm, Sep 21)
Last: The Duke

Sox TherapyIt's A Sprint, Not A Marathon
(24 - 11:00pm, Sep 21)
Last: Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer

Gonfalon CubsThis all sucks
(36 - 10:37pm, Sep 21)
Last: Brian C

NewsblogHow Declining Subs For Regional Sports Networks Could Impact MLB Relocation And Expansion
(6 - 9:48pm, Sep 21)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogMets targeting A’s Billy Beane as candidate to run baseball operations
(28 - 9:17pm, Sep 21)
Last: Infinite Yost (Voxter)

Newsblog8th? BBTF Central Park Softball Game: SEPT 18, 2021
(227 - 7:46pm, Sep 21)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogRemorseful Thom Brennaman deserves to work again now; He’s already suffered 14 months of hell
(83 - 7:44pm, Sep 21)
Last: dejarouehg

NewsblogGuardians to promote outfielder-turned-reliever Anthony Gose
(18 - 7:16pm, Sep 21)
Last: vortex of dissipation

NewsblogIsraeli baseball team wins silver in European Championship, its best result ever
(6 - 6:49pm, Sep 21)
Last: Ron J

NewsblogHow MLB vet found a home in Atlantic League
(3 - 5:09pm, Sep 21)
Last: Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc

Page rendered in 0.4019 seconds
48 querie(s) executed