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Tuesday, March 31, 2020

Baseball Question of the Day: Which player do you love to hate?

Today’s question is about hate. Well, maybe not HATE hate. I’m not looking for actual bile here. I’m not looking for you to name awful people — criminals or suspected criminals — or anything like that. No, I’m wanting to keep it on-the-field for that kind of “hate” one develops for a player for purely baseball reasons.

Maybe it’s because the guy is kinda dirty or snotty or something. Maybe it’s because you just don’t like the cut of his jib. Maybe — probably — it’s because he absolutely wears out the pitchers or hitters of the team you happen to root for and you have developed an ire for the dude because of it.

I don’t think I have anyone who fits that bill today. I’m not the sort of fan who gets as wound up in that kind of thing as I used to, I suppose. If a guy is a jerk I consider him content for this website more than I consider him my enemy, and content is good for a guy in my line of work. If a guy wears out the team I root for, well, I’m old enough now to realize that baseball primes are short and that, before too long, he’ll age and be humbled and then be out of the game and won’t be that kind of problem for me anymore. I’m a few generations of ballplayers into my baseball fandom so I realize now that you can wait ’em out.

That wasn’t always the case, of course. When I was a kid the stars of the day seemed permanent and the star who I absolutely loathed was George Brett.

All right, who fits that category for you?

 

QLE Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:44 AM | 93 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: love to hate, players, questions

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: March 31, 2020 at 07:23 AM (#5935160)
I hated Rose from the first time I saw him -- mainly the running to first on a walk and the slavish devotion of various broadcasters. I realize the latter wasn't his fault but I was 9 at the time. We can put Garvey in this category too.

Mets are easy to hate although that's often not their fault either. Being a Card and a Met, I had a particular loathing for Keith Hernandez (and he was a helluva 1B).

On the other hand, it's pretty much impossible to hate a Twin.

(Yes, there's Puckett but we didn't know about him at the time. He could have been in the Rose/Garvey bucket I guess.)
   2. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: March 31, 2020 at 08:21 AM (#5935163)
I remember going to the first Sox-Yankee game of 2004. About the 3rd inning A-Rod came up for the second time and was getting booed strongly. My father turned to me and said “boy, it became really easy to hate him didn’t it?”
   3. Mefisto Posted: March 31, 2020 at 08:30 AM (#5935165)
Dodgers, mostly. Not all of them -- can't hate Koufax or Kershaw, for example -- but pretty much all the players I've hated over the years have been Dodgers. Garvey, Lasorda and Puig top the list.
   4. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: March 31, 2020 at 08:52 AM (#5935171)
I guess if I had to think about it Chipper Jones would be my answer. God I hated that guy and there was absolutely no reason for that (post-retirement he has given me some reasons).
   5. JJ1986 Posted: March 31, 2020 at 09:10 AM (#5935176)
I do hate Yadier Molina.
   6. Ron J Posted: March 31, 2020 at 09:32 AM (#5935181)
I hated to watch Bill Gullickson. Didn't hate him as a person, but I find nibblers with good stuff infuriating and he topped my list.

Can't think of any current pitchers that fall into this category.
   7. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: March 31, 2020 at 09:37 AM (#5935183)
Not me, but in 1991 I went to this game in Skydome. I randomly sat next to the most stereotypical Canadian man ever born, who had the full accent and was wearing a red and black buffalo plaid shirt. He really hated Kelly Gruber and at one point said, "I only come to the games to boo Gruber." When Gruber made his second throwing error of the game, stereotype man turned to me and said, "He really is a hoser."
   8. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: March 31, 2020 at 09:45 AM (#5935184)
I hated to watch Bill Gullickson. Didn't hate him as a person, but I find nibblers with good stuff infuriating and he topped my list.
I'm similar. I don't hate anyone, but I've baseball-hated many pitchers who made the game miserable and slow. Daisuke Matsuzaka was the sine qua non of the type. This sort of hate is the flipside of a love for the Buehrle "get the ball and chuck it over the plate" type. The Rays had a farmhand named Jose Mujica who was very much of the Buehrle school. He missed all of 2019 with TJ and is now with the Rockies. That's probably the worst place for him, but I still hopes he makes it and continues his speedy ways.
   9. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: March 31, 2020 at 09:47 AM (#5935186)
Brian McCann, Brett Gardner, Manny Machado.

Oh, and Roberto Osuna, and Aroldis Chapman, and everyone else who falls into the same category. By which I mean having committed domestic violence, or being a Yankee or an Astro. Either/or.
   10. Alex Vila Posted: March 31, 2020 at 10:16 AM (#5935194)
A. J. Pierzynski.
   11. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 31, 2020 at 10:29 AM (#5935195)
I don't hate anyone, but I've baseball-hated many pitchers who made the game miserable and slow.
Seconded.

Also Ryan Braun, for the obvious reasons plus the hold-the-hand-up-for-time-until-Princess-is-good-and-ready-to-allow-the-pitcher-to-pitch routine.
   12. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 31, 2020 at 10:38 AM (#5935197)
A. J. Pierzynski.


Remember the "Punch AJ" All-Star campaign? That was pretty great.
   13. SoSH U at work Posted: March 31, 2020 at 10:39 AM (#5935199)
Trevor Bauer.

And I loved A.J. Man, he was great.

   14. villageidiom Posted: March 31, 2020 at 10:42 AM (#5935200)
I don't think there's ever been a player I loved to hate. Certainly there have been many I've hated, but I didn't love to do it.
   15. Alex Vila Posted: March 31, 2020 at 10:42 AM (#5935201)
Remember the "Punch AJ" All-Star campaign? That was pretty great.

I imagine that dealing with A.J. is what it must have been like dealing with Eddie Stanky, it was great when he was on your team, but the rest of the time you wanted to punch his lights out.
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: March 31, 2020 at 10:50 AM (#5935203)
I imagine that dealing with A.J. is what it must have been like dealing with Eddie Stanky, it was great when he was on your team.


Well, maybe not.

"If you play against him, you hate him. If you play with him, you hate him a little less." Ozzie Guillen on A.J. Pierzynski.

And in case you were wondering, Ozzie was his manager at the time.
   17. Mefisto Posted: March 31, 2020 at 10:51 AM (#5935204)
@15: Nah. I hated AJ even when he was on the Giants. He was an #######.
   18. Traderdave Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:00 PM (#5935223)
AJ actively wanted to be hated, so out of spite I refused to. That's how much I hated him.
   19. Mefisto Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:12 PM (#5935226)
LOL
   20. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:19 PM (#5935232)
I imagine that dealing with A.J. is what it must have been like dealing with Eddie Stanky, it was great when he was on your team, but the rest of the time you wanted to punch his lights out.


Dennis Rodman was the archetype here.
   21. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:31 PM (#5935238)
I don't "love to hate" anyone - if I hate someone I just want to avoid thinking about them. But here's another vote for Chipper Jones.
   22. Howie Menckel Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:35 PM (#5935240)
I remember going to the first Sox-Yankee game of 2004. About the 3rd inning A-Rod came up for the second time and was getting booed strongly. My father turned to me and said “boy, it became really easy to hate him didn’t it?”

A-Rod came into that series off a 1.213 OPS in 21 PA series where he carried the Yankees past the Twins.
at that point, his career postseason stats were .361 in 72 AB, 4 HR, 11 RBI, 9 R - including hitting .409 vs those very Yankees in 2000.

he hit .258 with 2 HR, 5 RBI vs the Red Sox. Jeter hit .200 with 5 RBI.

neither did diddly in the last 4 games of that epic collapse.

but hate? Jeter was a player who must be loved by all, so Yankees fans scapegoated A-Rod. never mind that A-Rod had by far the better career postseason stats to that point.

well, it worked. A-Rod looked terrified in going 3 for 38 in series losses in 2005-06. MGR Torre even demoted him to the 8th spot in the lineup one game.

In 2009, a rejuvenated A-Rod marched through the postseason like Godzilla in Tokyo, hitting .345 with a ridiculous 6 HR, 18 RBI and 12 walks (!) in 68 PA as he carried the Yankees to their last WS title.

but "easy to hate" - hard to dispute that one, based on the public record.
   23. Sweatpants Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:36 PM (#5935241)
Bobby Valentine. I don't think that anyone would have trouble understanding how someone could hate Valentine, but I'll explain anyway.

Smug and arrogant far beyond a level commensurate with his success in the game. Genuinely believes that he has never made the wrong decision in his life, but rather that things have not always played out the way that they ought to have. Has a reputation for being intelligent based more on how he projects himself than on anything that he has actually accomplished. Bears a frightening resemblance to Mr. Met, although Met's smile isn't toothy enough. Seems utterly incapable of introspection.

And, boy, did I love to hate him in 2012.
   24. Jay Seaver Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:51 PM (#5935243)
Derek Jeter, obviously. The most Yankee-est of Yankees, consistent in a sort of maddening way and praised beyond that with the national media insisting that even opposing fans had to love him (we did not). Not close to the player and personality Nomar Garciaparra was, but everything always seemed to break just right for him, and it would be a better world if Jeter had the career-altering HBP and Nomar was a beast for another decade.

These days, Aaron Judge fills that sort of void, with every judge-related pun made on his behalf feeling manufactured compared to the genuine joy Mookie Betts brings.
   25. Alex Vila Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:51 PM (#5935244)
Bobby Valentine. I don't think that anyone would have trouble understanding how someone could hate Valentine, but I'll explain anyway.

Coming back in with a fake 'stache after the ejection was mindbogglingly douchey.
   26. SoSH U at work Posted: March 31, 2020 at 12:55 PM (#5935246)
Smug and arrogant far beyond a level commensurate with his success in the game. Genuinely believes that he has never made the wrong decision in his life, but rather that things have not always played out the way that they ought to have. Has a reputation for being intelligent based more on how he projects himself than on anything that he has actually accomplished. Bears a frightening resemblance to Mr. Met, although Met's smile isn't toothy enough. Seems utterly incapable of introspection.


The late Primate Jeff K worked for him, and had even fewer positive things to say than you do.

Great call on Bobby V.

   27. Sweatpants Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:03 PM (#5935250)
Coming back in with a fake 'stache after the ejection was mindbogglingly douchey.
That's the most likeable thing he ever did, in my book. Of course, we can both be correct.
   28. Howie Menckel Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:10 PM (#5935252)
Smug and arrogant far beyond a level commensurate with his success in the game. Genuinely believes that he has never made the wrong decision in his life, but rather that things have not always played out the way that they ought to have.

I recall an encounter with Valentine, and "smug and arrogant" summed it up. even better is that he completely and smugly dismissed a scenario that I had brought up - one which soon came true. sorry, Bobby.
:)

he was a really good manager with the Mets, though.
   29. PreservedFish Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:18 PM (#5935255)
What was the scenario?
   30. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:19 PM (#5935256)
What was the scenario?
Here we go, yo.
   31. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:23 PM (#5935257)
I find ARod infinitely less hatable than Jeter. And always have. ARod comes across awkward, but I don't understand why you would hate somebody for that.

Jeter on the other hand, comes across as a massive douche. His entire public persona screams manufactured, and fake. Always thought he was narcissistic, egotistical, self-centred, and vain. The antithesis of a team-player. A me-first player, who would never put his teams goals ahead of his own. And of course his performance as part-owner of the Marlins has only confirmed how awful of a human being he really is.
   32. SandyRiver Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:24 PM (#5935258)
I don't hate anyone, but I've baseball-hated many pitchers who made the game miserable and slow. Daisuke Matsuzaka was the sine qua non of the type.

Said it better than I could. In his latter Bosox years it was like water torture watching him. He'd leave after 5 with a 3-1 lead, having tossed 118 pitches, stranded 9 and gone 3-2 on at least half the PAs (most of whom he'd had at 0-2 or 1-2), and burned well over 2 hours.
   33. Traderdave Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:26 PM (#5935259)
Ever play the Cellmate Game? Propose two equally obnoxious people and ask the other player which one would he'd rather have as a cellmate for a life without parole sentence. The object is to stump the other person by choosing two people so similar in their odiousness that the other player can't decide.



Lasorda vs. Valentine

Reggie vs. Kingman

AJ vs. Pedroia

etc etc

   34. Traderdave Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:28 PM (#5935260)
31 concur

A-rod comes off as an OK guy who has never exactly figured out the Being Famous thing.
   35. RJ in TO Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:30 PM (#5935262)
I hated to watch Bill Gullickson. Didn't hate him as a person, but I find nibblers with good stuff infuriating and he topped my list.
This is why I hated AJ Burnett during his time with the Jays. Every damn count seemed to go to 3-2. I can't say I loved to hate him though. Rather, I hated that I hated him, because he was just making watching the team I follow into a miserable experience.

It wasn't when he was a player, but I loved to hate that traitorous and deceptive jerkbag John Farrell, and every time he lost a game with the Red Sox it filled my heart with joy. Not that the Red Sox losing when he wasn't a manager didn't also provide me with joy, but him specifically losing provided more.
   36. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:36 PM (#5935263)
Lasorda vs. Valentine
Valentine. Lasorda would take up more space and is likely pretty gassy these days.*
Reggie vs. Kingman
Reggie by a mile - at least he is by all accounts a smart guy, and you could have intelligent conversations with him when not at each other's throats.
AJ vs. Pedroia
Hoo boy...

*Assuming age is not a factor, i.e. that if your cellmate dies he gets replaced by someone equally odious.
   37. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:37 PM (#5935264)
Lasorda vs. Valentine

Reggie vs. Kingman

AJ vs. Pedroia


Valentine. I think as long as you agree with everything Valentine says he would be friendly. Lasorda seems like he would be actively belligerent.

Reggie for the same reason.

Pedroia for the same reason but I'm not positive. I would have to avoid calling him "Petunia" which after all these years is hard.
   38. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:38 PM (#5935265)
Any and all past, present, and future New York Yankees.

Although there's some overlap here, I'll also go with A-Roid, Josh Hamilton, and Mark Teixeira for the circumstances under which they departed the Rangers.
   39. Mayor Blomberg Posted: March 31, 2020 at 01:38 PM (#5935266)
Mickey Hatcher.
If someone tells me he was developmentally disabled, it all makes sense.
If not, Mickey Hatcher.
   40. catomi01 Posted: March 31, 2020 at 02:33 PM (#5935273)
Ortiz. Schilling. AJ Pierzynski.

I hated Carl Everrett for a while, especially when he broke up Mussina's perfect game...but I met him a few years later, and he was actually a really nice guy, so he's moved off the list.
   41. SoSH U at work Posted: March 31, 2020 at 02:42 PM (#5935275)
This thread is telling me the game is really in desperate need for more hateable players.
   42. Greg Pope Posted: March 31, 2020 at 03:12 PM (#5935286)
Mostly I hate players who are overrated. Well, not just overrated but fawned over by the media. When the media says they're all time greats when they're just not. So I don't hate Trout or Bonds or Maddux. I hate players like Jeter. Ortiz too, although it's not quite as bad. And I retro-hate Jack Morris and most recently Omar Vizquel. I probably would also retro-hate Sandy Koufax although I never saw him pitch so it's harder.

In other sports, it's Emmitt Smith, Troy Aikman, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson. And yes, Tom Brady. Who is an all-time great, but just isn't even the greatest QB of his generation (behind Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers).
   43. JJ1986 Posted: March 31, 2020 at 03:28 PM (#5935289)
I hate Brady, but I think it's a huge stretch to say Rodgers was better.
   44. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 31, 2020 at 04:05 PM (#5935304)
Mostly I hate players who are overrated. Well, not just overrated but fawned over by the media.

Pete Rose certainly fit that description at one time
   45. kcgard2 Posted: March 31, 2020 at 04:08 PM (#5935306)
Off the top of my head: Jim Edmonds, Yadier Molina, Chase Utley, Jonathan Papelbon, Fernando Vina. What I notice is most of these guys aren't active (or at the end of their career). It probably means I just don't get as worked up about sports as I used to.

I guess it falls into a few categories.
1) Highly overrated and fawned-upon players (I kinda think the first two above fall in that category, I guess)
2) Dudes who play dirty / game the rules / do really annoying things to get advantages (Utley, Viña)
3) Extreme hothead pitchers who think hitting players on purpose is a badge of honor

I guess the unwritten rules police kind of span groups 2 and 3, but I typically don't like players who take that to extremes either. Of course, there's a totally different list for players I hate for off-field reasons.
   46. Walt Davis Posted: March 31, 2020 at 04:18 PM (#5935311)
Is LaSorda's family sending a weekly lasagne care package? Is he sharing?

Can't think of any current pitchers that fall into this category

This was Yu Darvish until mid-2019 when he decided to be Fergie Jenkins.

I agree, I don't "love to hate" -- watching Rose was annoying and obviously moreso cuz he often succeeded. Chanting "DARRRR YLLLLL" was fun right up until he hit a HR. (The Cubs actually kept him in check pretty well across his career.)
   47. Doug Jones threw harder than me Posted: March 31, 2020 at 04:18 PM (#5935312)
I don't ever actively hate any player. But there's definitely players that I rather would not watch, that get on my nerves.

Mickey Hatcher was a goofball doing the best he could with his limited skillset (of all sorts). So i kind of admired him. He was fun to watch. He was happy to be there and always having a good time. I like to see that in a player.

Hunter Strickland I hated/hate to watch pitch, because he seemed like he never bothered to learn how to pitch, just threw as hard as he could.

I got really tired of watching the Brandon's (Belt and Crawford) last year, because it seems, kinda strangely like Hunter Strickland and earlier Shawon Dunston, that they haven't learned a thing. Secondarily, neither of them ever seem to be having any fun, especially Brandon Belt.

I cannot think of a current Oakland A that i cannot stand watching. But earlier it was Max Muncy, because he was so lost out there with the A's. Silly me! Before that, in his last years with the A's it was Kurt Suzuki and Bobby Crosby, because it seemed like they had regressed each year. Kurt Suzuki later figured something out. Ben Grieve, because he just seemed like he'd rather be somewhere else.

Barry Bonds actually was a joy to watch, not just hitting. He always seemed to be having a good time on the field. Coco Crisp was that way too.

My Dad hated to watch Steve Garvey hit, because of his obvious (and never corrected) vulnerability to sliders low-and-away.
   48. JAHV Posted: March 31, 2020 at 04:38 PM (#5935316)
I'll echo the sentiment that I don't "love" to hate anyone. There are players I hate, but I just plain hate them. I think the "love to hate" sentiment comes from people who enjoy the game more when it has villains and heels. I don't care about that stuff at all. I just hated AJ Pierzynksi and wanted him to be fired into the sun. I hated A-Rod, Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, Papelbon (a lot of mid/late-2000's Red Sox could make this list).

There are fewer guys I hate now, but Manny Machado and Addison Russell would probably top the list. Alex Bregman is creeping up there as well, and might surpass both those two, given Machado is largely out of the limelight in San Diego, and Russell might not get another job in baseball.
   49. McCoy Posted: March 31, 2020 at 04:46 PM (#5935320)
Neifi Perez and Jayson Werth
   50. Doug Jones threw harder than me Posted: March 31, 2020 at 05:20 PM (#5935332)
Lasorda versus Valentine.
Lasorda actually was/is loved by a lot of people, including his players. He put people off by his "Great Big Dodger in the Sky" schtick, but the thing is, he actually did/does believe it, in his weird way. So I think he would be allright if you got past that. Valentine never stayed anywhere for very long, excepting maybe when he didn't speak the language. So that would be a clue.

Reggie vs. Kingman
Almost certainly Reggie, as he is a very sharp person, and personable. Reggie loved playing the game, you could see it watching him. Kingman maybe only realized he loved it after it was gone, which is why he played in the short-lived Senior League. I think Kingman has spent the rest of his life holed up in a property near Tahoe, whereas Reggie has continued to enjoy life. So Reggie.

AJ versus Pedroia. Pedroia by a mile.
   51. SoSH U at work Posted: March 31, 2020 at 05:40 PM (#5935334)
Almost certainly Reggie, as he is a very sharp person, and personable.


She would beg to differ.

I'd still take Reggie over Kong, but neither is the guy you'd pick at the top of your Prison Cellmate Expansion Draft.
   52. Howie Menckel Posted: March 31, 2020 at 05:40 PM (#5935335)
Chanting "DARRRR YLLLLL" was fun right up until he hit a HR. (The Cubs actually kept him in check pretty well across his career.)

a very fun experience sitting in the Wrigley Field RF bleachers for Mets-Cubs games.

Strawberry LOVED that chant. big smile on his face - in the middle of a Cubs at-bat - as he'd turn to look at the bleachers and cup his hand to his ear.

and no matter how loud they got, he'd shake his head in "hmm - I STILL can't hear you!" fashion and then shrugged. more smiles.

a good time was had by all.
   53. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: March 31, 2020 at 05:41 PM (#5935336)
Trevor Bauer.

For my money, the worst fallout from the Astros sign-stealing business has been Trevor Bauer: Man Of The People.
   54. Tom Nawrocki Posted: March 31, 2020 at 05:59 PM (#5935337)
The players I end up hating the most tend to be the ones on my team that have no business being in the major leagues. The Rockies like to have at least one of these guys around: Ty Wigginton, Steve Finley, Jamie Moyer... right now, the paradigmatic one is Ian Desmond. I don't wish him ill health or anything, but I'd really rather not ever see him again.
   55. Hysterical & Useless Posted: March 31, 2020 at 06:11 PM (#5935339)
Greg Pope, if you'd seen Sandy Koufax I don't think you could've hated him. He was, by all accounts I'm aware of, a nice guy, a gentleman. He didn't throw at hitters (grand total of 18 HBP in over 2300 innings; even in his early years when he was walking 5 or 6 per 9 he pitched away so he rarely hit anybody). Sure, overrated, nobody paid attention to park effects, but that was hardly his doing. He never courted the limelight and has kept a pretty low profile since retiring. He did give broadcasting a brief try, but was quite obviously uncomfortable (hence the brevity of the try). Not at all a Gossage or Bunning "In my day men were men" kind of guy.

No, I'm not a Dodger fan, and everyone is welcome to hate Garvey or LaSorda as much as they like.
   56. Ned Garvin: Male Prostitute Posted: March 31, 2020 at 06:15 PM (#5935341)
Guys I love to hate I think are guys that just wear my team out. Growing up in Seattle in the 80's-90's, everyone wore out the Mariners, so I never really had someone I hated. Once the Mariners got good, there were plenty of guys to hate, but they all played for the Mariners. I mostly am thinking about pitchers like Bobby Ayala, Bob Wells, Jim Converse, Dave Fleming, Chris Bosio, eventually Jose Mesa. Guys that were not good enough to do well in the big offense era.

My best example is not baseball - John Elway. Horse Face would ALWAYS become unstoppable in the 4th quarter and beat the Seahawks. I hated that guy so much. But not actual hate, just the good old fashioned sports hate, hate mixed with respect.

#52 is great, that kind of good-natured interaction is so much fun. I once went to a Marlins game in '98, the Mets were in town. I sat in RF and a bunch of kids were heckling Butch Huskey (I think the chant was "Huskey has a big butt") and he was shaking his butt along with the chant. Lots of fun and smiles. Once at BP before a Padres game when the Rockies(?) were in town, Chuck McElroy was chatting it up from RF with folks standing around hoping to catch a few balls. He kept tossing a ball up to some middle school kids that was always *just* out of their reach. Chuck at least was enjoying that.
   57. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 31, 2020 at 06:25 PM (#5935345)
I mostly am thinking about pitchers like Bobby Ayala, Bob Wells, Jim Converse, Dave Fleming, Chris Bosio, eventually Jose Mesa.
How is Heathcliff Slocumb not top of mind here?
   58. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 31, 2020 at 06:31 PM (#5935348)
My best example is not baseball - John Elway. Horse Face would ALWAYS become unstoppable in the 4th quarter and beat the Seahawks. I hated that guy so much. But not actual hate, just the good old fashioned sports hate, hate mixed with respect.

ditto me as a Browns fan and Frank Gifford, that pretty-boy fuck
   59. Howie Menckel Posted: March 31, 2020 at 06:38 PM (#5935353)
Mrs. Howie got to know Elway pretty well through business - she said he was great to deal with.

At one Big Pharma event at Pebble Beach, she thought to pick him up at his villa on the grounds in a golf cart every morning and to drive him to the various receptions. It's a sprawling place, and his knees are..... really bad.

He called her "Jersey."
   60. Greg Pope Posted: March 31, 2020 at 06:52 PM (#5935355)
Greg Pope, if you'd seen Sandy Koufax I don't think you could've hated him.

OK, I'll grant that. I did say I wasn't sure.
   61. Doug Jones threw harder than me Posted: March 31, 2020 at 07:00 PM (#5935360)
So I looked up Kingman, and I guess he has/had settled into a quiet life with 3 kids and runs a tennis club in Lake Tahoe, and seems(ed) pretty happy. So it may be that the answer to the Kingman/Reggie question is - Kingman?

Where are they now? Former Met Dave Kingman enjoys the quiet life in Lake Tahoe
   62. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: April 01, 2020 at 12:45 AM (#5935398)
From recent to past, Yadier, Zambrano, Sheffield, Sabo, Hrbek, Gladden, Cey, Rose.
   63. ajnrules Posted: April 01, 2020 at 02:42 AM (#5935411)
Martin Perez

It seemed like every time I go watch a big game for the Rangers it was Perez on the mound, and he was almost always terrible in them.

   64. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: April 01, 2020 at 04:02 AM (#5935416)
And yes, Tom Brady. Who is an all-time great, but just isn't even the greatest QB of his generation (behind Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers).

This is the part where I get on my hobby horse about park factors in football, and that it is insane that we don't adjust for them. Domes in particular, significantly increase offensive performance.
   65. MuttsIdolCochrane Posted: April 01, 2020 at 05:58 AM (#5935419)
Ortiz of course. Skated on heavy steroid use and regularly put his personal stats over his team. The only player I've ever seen regularly complaining by screaming up at the official scorer that a precious hit was taken away from him. Never stopped.
   66. Koot Posted: April 01, 2020 at 06:56 AM (#5935422)
Derek Jeter.

The media coverage for him was sickening. I live in upstate NY, I can't tell you how many interviews I saw with Micheal Kay beaming like a teenage girl when he got to stand next to Jeter and give the most boring interview ever. He was a grown man blushing, his wife should be jealous. The constant talk about how classy and a good teammate he was; ask A-rod what kind of teammate he was.

You want to see how a "good teammate" handles the team getting a great player that they don't along with, look at Big Papi when they signed David Price. With all the media around, when they first got into spring training together Ortiz made a huge deal to walk up to Price, give him a big hug, stand there with his arm around him, talk about how awesome it was to get a great pitcher like him and how all that stuff in the past doesn't matter. Even if he didn't mean it, he made a huge deal to make sure it was not a story.
   67. CStallion Posted: April 01, 2020 at 07:32 AM (#5935430)
41 - Yep there is just not a lot of notable persona in MLB.

48 - the only active one I can think of is Bregman. Someone on this site aptly described him as having a very punch able face. And that's well before all the sign stealing stuff came out.

   68. cardsfanboy Posted: April 01, 2020 at 08:48 AM (#5935443)
Not really a hater of individual players, but like some have mentioned, when the media fawns over them ad nauseum and create a narrative that isn't backed by facts, then it's the media / broadcasters that I hate. Which is why outside of Vin Scully, I pretty much hate all broadcasters (including Jon Miller--his decision to constantly feed Morgan comments that allowed Morgan to go on his rants made him just as nauseating to listen to)

I'll join the list of hating the domestic abusers like Aroldis etc... and I can also hate the "unwritten" rules guys, but I usually forget who they were a week later, that pitcher throwing a hissy fit because Arod went across the mound.... I think it was Hudson, but after a week I forget who they were, so it's not really a hatred as much as just noticing them being douche bags. And of course deserved Hall Of Famer, but still looking in, Curt Schilling.
   69. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: April 01, 2020 at 09:29 AM (#5935450)
I haven't seen Pete Kozma's name come up yet. And while I don't care about him, I have seen a number of inventive ways to get around the nanny so that various posters can swear at him.

Hating Steve Garvey is practically a past-time at BBTF, and while you might also actually hate him, I think that calling him a Nazi child molester probably counts as "loving to hate".

For my part, I'll admit that I hate Pete Rose. But it's not a "love to hate" thing so much as it is a childhood-idol-betrays-you-and-destroys-your-innocence sort of thing.
   70. Alex Vila Posted: April 01, 2020 at 11:23 AM (#5935491)
that pitcher throwing a hissy fit because Arod went across the mound.... I think it was Hudson, but after a week I forget who they were,

I think it was Dallas Braden, IIRC.
   71. SoSH U at work Posted: April 01, 2020 at 11:45 AM (#5935497)
I think it was Dallas Braden, IIRC.


It was indeed. And I always thought the reaction to his reaction was overblown. Arod violated baseball protocol*, Braden barked at him and threw his glove at the dugout. That was the extent of the onfield activities. If he was ever planning to hit him for it, he never got the chance (Arod didn't play the next time the two teams met, and Braden was done shortly after that).

Of course, when Braden was later asked about his continued dislike of Arod and closed his lengthy comments with "But I think you’re right, we don’t do much talking in the 209,” well that was an exceptionally good reason to love to hate him.

*When it happened, the only other recent instance we could find of an offensive player running across the mound was done by A.J. Pierzynski, who almost certainly did it on purpose. My guess is Arod did as well, though, as with other instances of his gamesmanship (the slap, the shout), he played dumb afterwards.

   72. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: April 01, 2020 at 12:55 PM (#5935534)
It was indeed. And I always thought the reaction to his reaction was overblown. Arod violated baseball protocol*, Braden barked at him and threw his glove at the dugout. That was the extent of the onfield activities. If he was ever planning to hit him for it, he never got the chance (Arod didn't play the next time the two teams met, and Braden was done shortly after that).


Braden yelled at ARod to "Stay off my ####### mound" (don't think he threw his glove, though); after the game ARod purported not to know who this "Dallas Braden" person was.

However, a couple of weeks later, Braden threw his perfect game, and somebody in the Yankees locker room asked ARod for comment.
Rodriguez said "What? He did? (pause) Well, I guess I better stay off his ####### mound, then."
   73. Srul Itza Posted: April 01, 2020 at 01:45 PM (#5935553)
Not players so much as managers

Earl Weaver -- extremely entertaining and extremely effective manager, and very easy to hate.

Tony LaRussa -- Can't argue with success but very hateable for a variety of reasons.
   74. Scott Lange Posted: April 01, 2020 at 01:56 PM (#5935558)
William Nuschler Clark Jr.

- He beat the Cubs in 1989 by spying on a mound conference. An Original Astro, basically. I admit this one may look different to non-Cubs fans, but there's more. Lots more.

- He's racist as hell. As Jeffery Leonard put it, "it's about time Will Clark came out of the closet. Let's unveil his true personality. He's a talented hitter, but he's a prejudiced bastard." That came after Leonard's nephew asked Clark for an autograph, and Clark told him "get your black ass out of here." He called teammate Chris Brown the n-word. There's plenty more rumors out there, but that's the best reported stuff. Plenty for me.

- He's a bully. I worked with a guy who was the son of a major league pitcher for a few years. The guy was himself a jerk, so I mostly avoided him, but once he was talking to a group of us about hanging around the clubhouse in spring training, so I tried to make conversation and asked him what the other players were like. Imagine my surprise when he volunteered "most of them were always nice, but one time Will Clark cussed me out for getting in his way." This guy would've been about eight at the time.

- Then there's this story.

- And the time Rafael Palmeiro, who had the misfortune of having to know Clark in college and the pros as well, explained "That's Will. He's got no class. Friendship didn't matter to him. He was looking out for himself. I don't think much of Will. He's a lowlife." He took it back later, but... come on. We all know.

Look, I know you can write off some of these stories as personal animus if you want. (Though he sure does seem to have inspired personal animus in a lot of different people.) And I realize that 3 or maybe even 4 percent of my hatred could possibly be influenced by the Cubs losing that series in '89. But the bottom line here is that I happened to sports-hate a guy who turns out to be a loathsome piece of human garbage. Happy coincidence for me! So real-hate it is. I'm not saying I want Will Clark to die of covid. But if somebody has to, he wouldn't be the worst choice.
   75. SoSH U at work Posted: April 01, 2020 at 02:10 PM (#5935565)
(don't think he threw his glove, though);


He threw his glove at the dugout wall when the inning ended, but before he left the field.
   76. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: April 01, 2020 at 02:11 PM (#5935566)
He beat the Cubs in 1989 by spying on a mound conference.

Brrrm?
I know Clark's then-teammate Matt Williams would always go stand right next to a third-base runner to listen in on his conversation with the 3B coach - which I thought was weirdly cool, like "I guess you can do that? Huh." - but I don't know the story about Will the Thrill and his high screechy voice spying on a mound conference.
   77. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: April 01, 2020 at 02:17 PM (#5935569)
He threw his glove at the dugout wall when the inning ended, but before he left the field.

That... sounds like Dallas Braden.
(he made a bunch of sharp observations when he first started appearing in the A's broadcast booth; too bad he's pretty much the comic relief / catchphrase guy now but maybe those early insights were the only ones he was ever going to have anyway)
   78. Scott Lange Posted: April 01, 2020 at 02:27 PM (#5935574)
I know Clark's then-teammate Matt Williams would always go stand right next to a third-base runner to listen in on his conversation with the 3B coach - which I thought was weirdly cool, like "I guess you can do that? Huh." - but I don't know the story about Will the Thrill and his high screechy voice spying on a mound conference.


See this link, among others. Basically, Clark apparently read the lips of the people in the mound conference, which had never been an issue before the uniquely devious Old Scratch Nuschler came along.
   79. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 01, 2020 at 02:44 PM (#5935580)
- Then there's this story.

that story would be far more compelling if it didn't involve Jeff Pearlman, the biggest a$$hole in all of sports media
   80. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: April 01, 2020 at 02:44 PM (#5935581)
Basically, Clark apparently read the lips of the people in the mound conference, which had never been an issue before the uniquely devious Old Scratch Nuschler came along.

Somewhere, Dummy Hoy nods approvingly.

Back to the topic, I hated Brett Lawrie when he played for the A's. He had this purposeless temper, always angry at everything, going beyond "playing hard" to "playing dirty," getting in fights with umpires and opponents. He hustled like crazy, but he was an #######, and he made sure you knew it, every day.
I don't know how good he would've had to be to make up for all that, but he was not nearly that good.
   81. PreservedFish Posted: April 01, 2020 at 02:57 PM (#5935585)
Are you referring to this Brett Lawrie?
   82. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: April 01, 2020 at 03:07 PM (#5935589)
that story would be far more compelling if it didn't involve Jeff Pearlman, the biggest a$$hole in all of sports media

And that's not exactly a title with little competition!

Sadly, I might give the crown to Jonah Keri.
   83. Snowboy Posted: April 01, 2020 at 04:22 PM (#5935623)
Jose Altuve, new to the list this winter.

I hated Terry Pendleton for a while, for stealing Barry Bonds 1991 MVP (.292/.410/.514/.924, with 116 RBI and 43 SB, versus .319/.363/.517/.880, with 86 RBI and 10 SB)

But it wasn't really Chubby Terry's fault. Which brings me to the BBWAA, and then Bud Selig, in the non-player category.
   84. Smitty* Posted: April 01, 2020 at 07:46 PM (#5935674)
Don’t you hate Pants Rowland
   85. TJ Posted: April 01, 2020 at 08:20 PM (#5935679)
My six-year old self hated every California Angel so much after they beat my beloved Detroit Tigers in the last game of the 1967 season that I went into my room and tore up all of their baseball cards. Luckily Tom Seaver and Rod Carew weren’t Angels so their rookie cards survived...

My best friend hated former Tiger Tom Brookens with a passion, which made it hilarious when we would go to a Tigers game. It seemed like Brookens always did something good when we were there, which would set me best friend off every time...
   86. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: April 01, 2020 at 08:57 PM (#5935683)
Smitty gets a primey for 84.

I want to talk about AJ for a minute. And Paris Hilton. Let me start with Paris Hilton. I was watching Letterman (or Leno, or whoever it was) once, when she was a guest. And she was playing up the shallow vapid ditz thing, and the more she did it the more obvious it became that it's an act. You could see around the corners that she was really having fun with it. It's not an act that I enjoy exactly, but I've got a certain amount of respect for someone whose entire life is a performance art piece. And it seems clear to me that AJ is doing the same thing. His persona is the heel. And so he goes over the top with it, making himself explicitly and excessively hateable. And I find that makes him strangely hard to hate.
   87. cardsfanboy Posted: April 01, 2020 at 09:08 PM (#5935687)
I want to talk about AJ for a minute. And Paris Hilton. Let me start with Paris Hilton. I was watching Letterman (or Leno, or whoever it was) once, when she was a guest. And she was playing up the shallow vapid ditz thing, and the more she did it the more obvious it became that it's an act. You could see around the corners that she was really having fun with it. It's not an act that I enjoy exactly, but I've got a certain amount of respect for someone whose entire life is a performance art piece. And it seems clear to me that AJ is doing the same thing. His persona is the heel. And so he goes over the top with it, making himself explicitly and excessively hateable. And I find that makes him strangely hard to hate.


I have to say I kinda agree with this entire paragraph. (I have a certain amount of respect for Paris Hilton) and after watching Votto play the heel, and knowing that other players do it less obviously, it's kinda enjoyable.
   88. Howie Menckel Posted: April 01, 2020 at 09:18 PM (#5935690)
Bob Dylan's autobiography is a bit of a revelation - he was never as eccentric as he let on (not that he's not eccentric). it was like a magician showing you his tricks.

he has enjoyed the dance very much.
   89. Doug Jones threw harder than me Posted: April 01, 2020 at 09:36 PM (#5935694)
Remember when it was a thing, whenever one would sign up for a something which insisted that you provide an email address, though you never intended to have them send you an email that you would read, the standard email to use was bselig@yahoo.com. Good times.
   90. flournoy Posted: April 01, 2020 at 09:40 PM (#5935697)
Like others, there wasn't any "love" component to it, but the top of my hate list: Kent Hrbek, Jim Leyritz, Yunel Escobar, Melky Cabrera
   91. jingoist Posted: April 02, 2020 at 10:01 AM (#5935776)
I’m not a hater by nature and never got that strongly moved to develop a hate for any player, per see.
I “strongly dislike” Papelbon as I think he is a first class jerk.
I hated the fact that Mays, Musial, Frank Robinson and a few other 1950’s and 1960’s stars made my life as a young Pirate fan miserable by inflicting numerous losses on my team.
Having watched him from afar I get the vibe others have expressed about Bobby Valentine.
Self impressed, narcissistic by nature......reminds me of the clueless guy leading the daily Coronavirus press conferences from the White House.
   92. Bourbon Samurai stays in the fight Posted: April 02, 2020 at 11:24 AM (#5935803)
A lot of Nats fans liked him, but god Gio Gonzalez was just absolutely, completely guaranteed to melt down in the clutch every time. I could see that panicked look on his stupid face.

   93. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: April 02, 2020 at 02:46 PM (#5935930)
Remember when it was a thing, whenever one would sign up for a something which insisted that you provide an email address, though you never intended to have them send you an email that you would read, the standard email to use was bselig@yahoo.com. Good times.


BugMeNot. To this day out of sheer inertia, I use budselig as a password on at least one site.

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