I love stuff like this.

In fact, he should hit enough that he could be moved to third base, a good possibility considering (Kurt) Stillwell is on the verge of making it to the big leagues.

The Reds at that time had a borderline HOFer in Dave Concepcion (granted at the end of his career), a future HOFer in Barry Larkin, a future All-Star in Kurt Stilwell, and a future serviceable major league utility player in Jeff Treadway all in the organization playing shortstop at that time. Not too shabby.

Didn't Gammons rave about Bagwell when he was a Red Sox farmhand or am I misremembering?

I had no idea Edgar was Carmelo's cousins.

Didn't Gammons rave about Bagwell when he was a Red Sox farmhand or am I misremembering?

When he wasn't raving about Jeff Sellers.

And Mike Crudale.

#1 Treadway was a big-time prospect. (Though now that I look more closely ... well serviceable was his floor)

Bagwell's minor league stats don't look awesome until you consider where he played. Perhaps the toughest place to hit in organized baseball. (I think only Pat Lennon put up stats that you could really compare to Bagwell's) The Gammons/Bagwell connection came from Gammons scanning the projections in the Stats handbook and noticing that Bagwell had the highest projected batting average in the NL (As James noted though it wasn't really a prediction of a batting title. He was after all listed in the section labeled "These Guys Can Play And Might Get A Shot")

This stuff is great. Fred McGriff strikes out too much and can't hit a curve, but he's a hard worker and one day he could be up there with Willie Upshaw.

6. Edgar Martinez, 3b, 25, 5-11, 175, R-R
He's the cousin of San Diego's power-hitting Carmelo Martinez,

mmmm--I never knew that

2. Bernie Williams, of, Albany
Williams, 22, was the No. 6 prospect in the Eastern League last year. He has all the tools, and is a switch-hitter with some power from both sides of the plate. He also covers a lot of ground in center field and has a strong arm.

Young Bernie did cover a lot of ground, but he NEVER had a strong arm, did he?

The Reds at that time had a borderline HOFer in Dave Concepcion (granted at the end of his career), a future HOFer in Barry Larkin, a future All-Star in Kurt Stilwell, and a future serviceable major league utility player in Jeff Treadway all in the organization playing shortstop at that time. Not too shabby.

The Reds farm system in the mid 80s was ridiculous, popping out the likes of Larkin, Stillwell, Eric Davis, Paul O'Neill, Tom Browning, Kal Daniels, Chris Sabo, Tracy Jones, Joe Oliver, Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, and Nick Esasky in a very small window of time, before Marge Schott tore it all down.

Williams had a strong arm his first season or two for the Yankees. Then he hurt it somehow, not sure whether it was the shoulder or the elbow, and he couldn't throw well after that. The arm just never came back.

I never knew it either ... and they're giving Carmelo short shrift there I think. No, he was no Edgar but a 112 OPS+ through age 27 -- well, better than Konerko. :-) Also 404 BB to just 528 K ain't bad at all. He K'd in only 15.7% of his PAs ... not as good as Edgar's 14% but not much worse than league average. And 8 WAR at ages 23-24 (and almost nothing else). He was a pretty promising guy.

And of course I briefly thought he was going to be a God. In his Sept callup in 83 he started 341/364/707 with 5 HR in his first 44 PA. Then somebody had the bright idea to throw him a curveball (188/220/313 with an HR on the last day of the season). He formed the basis of my pet theory that teams almost seem to help each other -- "we'll throw your rookie nothing but fastballs for his first 50-100 PA so you can tell whether he can at least handle an ML fastball." (See, possibly, Yonder Alonso.)

Knowing the Cubs, Carmelo probably told them how good his cousin was but they didn't listen.

So, best cousins in baseball?

Bondseses -- father and son
Aarons -- brothers ... OK, you can use the DiMaggios or something :-)
Gooden/Sheffield -- uncle/nephew

EDIT:
Kekich/Peterson -- wife swappers
Piazza/Leiter -- partners

Carl and Joe Mays, with their 84-year age difference, are my favorite MLB cousin duo.

written by Tracy Ringolsby

Tracy put in some yeoman work back in the day...

So, best cousins in baseball?

Mariano and Ruben Rivera?

I don't know if they still have it but in the concourses at Turner Field the Braves had the scouting reports for some of their prominent players of recent/semi-recent vintage. I remember seeing Murphy and Glavine specifically.

So, best cousins in baseball?

Aaron Rowand-James Shields

Larry Bowa and Nick Johnson

If we allow for cousins-in-law, Babe Ruth and Johnny Mize.

For cousins, I think it's Jesse Burkett and Jack Glasscock.

Kal Daniels was a GREAT hitter. I saw him as a 20 year old in the Eastern League and he led the league in OBP/Slugging. Paul O'Neill was a year older teammate of Daniels and Paul didn't come CLOSE to Daniels output.

I am pretty sure Daniels was the youngest guy in the league.

His knees were sh*t so he was out of baseball before he was 30.

I think Fred McGriff / Charles Johnson / Terry McGriff wins the cousin battle.

Kal Daniels was a GREAT hitter. I saw him as a 20 year old in the Eastern League and he led the league in OBP/Slugging. Paul O'Neill was a year older teammate of Daniels and Paul didn't come CLOSE to Daniels output.

I am pretty sure Daniels was the youngest guy in the league.

....and he stole 43 bases with only 11 CS that year. Hard to imagine what he would have turned out to be without the bad knees, he could hit in his sleep.

they're giving Carmelo short shrift there I think. No, he was no Edgar but [...] He was a pretty promising guy.

Plus, he was one third of the referent of my favorite baseball nickname of the past 30 years - The Three Gorditos.

Daniels could hit righties in his sleep, at least. Huge splits. Still, was my favorite player in baseball for a while.

Who were the other Gorditos (I like that, btw)?

ballfan: In his day? Has that ended?

Who were the other Gorditos (I like that, btw)?

you'd never guess

Carl and Joe Mays, with their 84-year age difference, are my favorite MLB cousin duo.

Does anyone know the genealogy involved here?

I'm fascinated by extreme generational gaps (like how President John Tyler, born 1790, has two living grandsons) and would love to know the details. Wikipedia calls Joe a "distant cousin", but only cites the BBRef statement that they're cousins, which I usually take to mean first cousins unless there's some form of qualification.

If they're first cousins -- If Joe's father was 60 when he Joe was born in 1975, and Joe's father's sibling was 18 when Carl was born in 1891, that's still a 42 year difference between the two siblings. That happens, but it's unusual, and even more unusual that those two siblings would then crank out kids at extremely young and old ages, respectively. Did something like this happen? Or are Joe and Carl simply second cousins, or cousins twice removed, or something equally uninteresting?

It only says "distant cousin" though. It could be like how Queen Elizabeth II is the first cousin seven times removed(or something like that) of George Washington.

It only says "distant cousin" though. It could be like how Queen Elizabeth II is the first cousin seven times removed(or something like that) of George Washington.

Well, that's my question. Joe Mays' BBRef page just says "cousin". His Wikipedia page says "distant cousin", but cites the BBRef page as evidence. That looks like a Wikipedia contributor made a guess that they had to be distant cousins based on the age difference, without actually knowing anything.

So I'd like to know if they are actually first cousins. Like I mentioned in #25, the guy who was President from 1841-1845 (and who was born during George Washington's first term) has two living grandchildren, so this sort of thing is possible.

Aaron Rowand-James Shields

C'mon man, the opening bid was Edgar and Carmelo Martinez. :-)