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Thursday, November 14, 2019

Boras bashes lack of competition, senses faster-paced market

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. (AP) — Baseball’s most prominent agent criticized teams for a lack of competition, proclaiming rebuilding teams have caused four straight years of attendance drops, then said he senses a faster-paced free agent market that could lead to earlier signings this offseason.

Scott Boras, who represents top free agents Gerrit Cole, Stephen Strasburg and Anthony Rendon, accused many teams of entering last season with the goal of rebuilding through high drafts picks rather than competing for a title.

Standing in a courtyard at the hotel where general managers are holding their annual meeting, Boras said the decision of some fans to stay away from ballparks was understandable. Major League Baseball’s average attendance has fallen from 30,169 in 2016 to 28,339 this year, its lowest since 2003.

“In the big world, when you go to the zoo and half the bears are asleep, you are not able to enjoy the zoo as it should be,” he said Wednesday.

MRDA in action- but most of these points aren’t unique to him…..

 

QLE Posted: November 14, 2019 at 12:41 AM | 40 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: scott boras

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   1. Rennie's Tenet Posted: November 14, 2019 at 08:48 AM (#5901032)
when you go to the zoo and half the bears are asleep, you are not able to enjoy the zoo as it should be


Boras getting some use out of his Russian-proverb-a-day calendar.
   2. eric Posted: November 14, 2019 at 09:41 AM (#5901052)
Isn't Boras representing both Cole and Strasburg a pretty serious conflict of interest? They are both #1! starter types and both probably have approximately the exact same teams vying for their services.

Just a hypothetical, but say team A is willing to go either $280 for Cole or $260 for Stras. Team B is willing to go either $250 for Stras or $240 for Cole. Boras can't conceivably represent both players to their fullest best interests, as one player will definitely be taking less money than he could have gotten.
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 14, 2019 at 01:00 PM (#5901133)
when you go to the zoo and half the bears are asleep, you are not able to enjoy the zoo as it should be
So the solution is to have someone constantly poking the bears so as to keep them awake all the time? That doesn't seem like a good idea on multiple levels.
   4. The Duke Posted: November 14, 2019 at 01:00 PM (#5901134)
Boras has basically taken over union PR because the union has abdicated it. I think Boras has been and is mostly right about what he sees. More power to him. He should go into the hall of fame at some point - just like Miller, he has had an enormous impact on the game
   5. SoSH U at work Posted: November 14, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5901136)

So the solution is to have someone constantly poking the bears so as to keep them awake all the time? That doesn't seem like a good idea on multiple levels.


Scott really didn't think that metaphor all the way through.
   6. . Posted: November 14, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5901142)
Boras getting some use out of his Russian-proverb-a-day calendar.


In Soviet Russia, bears enjoy you!

Isn't Boras representing both Cole and Strasburg a pretty serious conflict of interest? They are both #1! starter types and both probably have approximately the exact same teams vying for their services.


Of course it is, and the CBA prohibits players from acting in concert, just as it prohibits clubs, and Boras causes, aids and abets, and/or suborns violations of that provision, too.

   7. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: November 14, 2019 at 01:22 PM (#5901144)
Isn't Boras representing both Cole and Strasburg a pretty serious conflict of interest?

The potential is definitely there, but I think this is a waivable conflict. Cole and Strasburg are aware that they share an agent. As long as Boras keeps them updated on the offers, this shouldn't be a problem.
   8. Obo Posted: November 14, 2019 at 01:25 PM (#5901146)
I'm pretty sure that when I was six, if you'd offered me a trip to the zoo along with a guarantee that only half the bears would be asleep, I'd have taken that deal in a heartbeat.
   9. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: November 14, 2019 at 01:48 PM (#5901156)
I'm pretty sure that when I was six, if you'd offered me a trip to the zoo along with a guarantee that only half the bears would be asleep, I'd have taken that deal in a heartbeat.
...not if your friend the next town over told you *his* zoo's bears were ALL awake.
   10. catomi01 Posted: November 14, 2019 at 01:49 PM (#5901157)
I'm pretty sure that when I was six, if you'd offered me a trip to the zoo along with a guarantee that only half the bears would be asleep, I'd have taken that deal in a heartbeat.


Especially if there are 30 bears...that means 15 fully alert bears...count me in now, forget when I was six. I spend too much money a year ago to go to Disney and waited on line to see 1 sleeping lion on a rock in Animal Kingdom.
   11. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 14, 2019 at 02:06 PM (#5901161)
It seems like a great idea until one of those alert bears steals your pic-a-nic basket. And then mauls your sister.
   12. pikepredator Posted: November 14, 2019 at 02:24 PM (#5901167)
Just a hypothetical, but say team A is willing to go either $280 for Cole or $260 for Stras. Team B is willing to go either $250 for Stras or $240 for Cole. Boras can't conceivably represent both players to their fullest best interests, as one player will definitely be taking less money than he could have gotten.


Pretty sure that's when 'sources report' that Stras is considering an offer of $300M from a mystery team, so Team B signs Stras for $275, which then makes the Iconic Cole a bargain at $305 for Team A?
   13. Howie Menckel Posted: November 14, 2019 at 02:48 PM (#5901177)
I love the bear analogy and the followups!
   14. JAHV Posted: November 14, 2019 at 02:55 PM (#5901180)
Scott really didn't think that metaphor all the way through.


Yeah, how many non-sleeping bears does one really need to enjoy the zoo? Maybe if half the bears was one bear that would be a bit of a letdown. But if you're giving me two active bears, the potential for amusement seems pretty high.
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 14, 2019 at 02:55 PM (#5901181)
I love the bear analogy and the followups!

Just remember, whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except for bears. They just kill you.
   16. Esoteric Posted: November 14, 2019 at 02:58 PM (#5901182)
Just remember, whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except for bears. They just kill you.
I am literally stealing this line right now and using it on Twitter, that's how good it is.
   17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 14, 2019 at 03:12 PM (#5901184)
I am literally stealing this line right now and using it on Twitter, that's how good it is.

Go right ahead, I stole it too. Can't recall from whom.
   18. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 14, 2019 at 03:24 PM (#5901191)
I am literally stealing this line right now and using it on Twitter, that's how good it is.
Except it doesn't work. If bears just kill you, they are by definition outside of the rule set out in the first sentence, and cannot be an exception. It should be something like "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except for bears. They don't kill you, but they severely maul you, leaving you much weaker than you were before."
   19. Walt Davis Posted: November 14, 2019 at 03:43 PM (#5901199)
team A is willing to go either $280 for Cole or $260 for Stras. Team B is willing to go either $250 for Stras or $240 for Cole.

Boras says to both teams "what's with this either/or ####? You know how this works. If you want to make an offer on Cole, make an offer on Cole. If you want to make an offer on Strasburg, make an offer on Strasburg. I'll then take whatever actual offer(s) you make to that client and they can accept or decline it. At any point during or after this process you may make whatever offers you might like for any of my other free agent clients."

"But I just gave you free information about my desires that you might use to your clients' benefits."

"Didn't they teach you that in your 1-week data science certification course?"
   20. The Duke Posted: November 14, 2019 at 03:45 PM (#5901200)
You can’t literally steal that line. The Astros already stole it
   21. eric Posted: November 14, 2019 at 04:10 PM (#5901201)
Boras says to both teams "what's with this either/or ####? You know how this works. If you want to make an offer on Cole, make an offer on Cole. If you want to make an offer on Strasburg, make an offer on Strasburg. I'll then take whatever actual offer(s) you make to that client and they can accept or decline it. At any point during or after this process you may make whatever offers you might like for any of my other free agent clients."

"But I just gave you free information about my desires that you might use to your clients' benefits."

"Didn't they teach you that in your 1-week data science certification course?"


Haha. Stealing from other posters a bit, maybe it goes:

"I offer $280 for Cole."

"*Snickering and greedy hand-wringing* we have a mystery offer at $300 for Cole."

"Er, ok, in that case, I offer $260 for Stras."

"I will let you know."

Repeat with team 2 and there you go. And I don't think it's that far out to think a team might be able to afford one or the other but not both, especially with luxtax considerations. Ultimately, I don't think Boras is accepting any offer for any player without knowing full well the market and what teams are willing to spend, hence the conflict of interest.

That said, given how Boras works, getting the second-best Boras-procured offer is still likely better than most other agents' first-best-procured offer.
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 14, 2019 at 04:22 PM (#5901203)
Except it doesn't work. If bears just kill you, they are by definition outside of the rule set out in the first sentence, and cannot be an exception. It should be something like "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except for bears. They don't kill you, but they severely maul you, leaving you much weaker than you were before."

Never let facts get in the way of a good line.
   23. A triple short of the cycle Posted: November 14, 2019 at 04:38 PM (#5901205)
Just remember, when a bear attacks your campground, you don't have to outrun the bear. You just have to outrun the slowest camper.
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 14, 2019 at 04:47 PM (#5901207)
Never let facts get in the way of a good line.
And you call yourself a pedant (scoff!).
   25. Esoteric Posted: November 14, 2019 at 05:03 PM (#5901210)
All of you mooks in this thread are reminding me of why I still come and hang out around here every day, even if I comment less. God bless you all.
   26. PreservedFish Posted: November 14, 2019 at 05:32 PM (#5901215)
This morning in my instagram feed I saw a photo from the Japanese restaurant INUA featuring what appeared to be baby bear paws in a basket, with a comment that said something like "Can't wait to work with this new ingredient!" Predictable shitstorm in the responses. It looks like the post has since been deleted.

I've never eaten bear but I have two very good and very trustworthy friends that say it's one of the best meats on earth. However, the quality varies wildly depending on the diet of the bear - they could be eating mostly blueberries or mostly salmon or mostly carrion, or mostly the slowest camper, I suppose.
   27. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 14, 2019 at 05:36 PM (#5901218)
This morning in my instagram feed I saw a photo from the Japanese restaurant INUA featuring what appeared to be baby bear paws in a basket, with a comment that said something like "Can't wait to work with this new ingredient!" Predictable shitstorm in the responses. It looks like the post has since been deleted.

Well, what kind of degenerate kills a baby bear? Hunters don't hunt babies.
   28. PreservedFish Posted: November 14, 2019 at 05:40 PM (#5901219)
I have no idea. Maybe it wasn't a baby. Japanese black bears are human-sized, according to the Wikipedia. It also sounds like they're quite endangered, which would make it a bizarre ingredient for a restaurant on the Western-sensibility jet-setter itinerary to feature.
   29. Obo Posted: November 14, 2019 at 07:07 PM (#5901234)
Yeah, how many non-sleeping bears does one really need to enjoy the zoo? Maybe if half the bears was one bear that would be a bit of a letdown. But if you're giving me two active bears, the potential for amusement seems pretty high.

As catomi01 pointed out, in this scenario you're actually being given *15* active bears. How awesome is that? Boras has no idea what he is talking about.
   30. Perry Posted: November 14, 2019 at 07:31 PM (#5901241)
All of you mooks in this thread


Sounds like someone else watched Mean Streets when it was on TCM the other night.
   31. Walt Davis Posted: November 14, 2019 at 07:39 PM (#5901242)
"I offer $280 for Cole."

"*Snickering and greedy hand-wringing* we have a mystery offer at $300 for Cole."

"Er, ok, in that case, I offer $260 for Stras."

"I will let you know."


1) The important thing there being the offers are separate. Boras "rejects" the offer for Cole (or the GM withdraws it), receives an offer for Strasburg. As long as he believes the bluff of the $300 M offer for Cole is to Cole's benefit, there's no conflict of interest. A conflict only arises if he only engages in the Cole bluff because he thinks it will benefit Strasburg ... and for it to help Boras, it has to help Strasburg more than it hurts Cole.

2) You really think this is how the most successful sports agent in the history of the world works? He's not going to reject a $280 M offer out of hand for a pretend offer. He might well say "send it over, we'll take a look and may come back with a counter-offer ... but I'll warn you, lots of teams are interested and I don't expect $280 to get it done." Or "my client has informed me that he is not currently willing to consider offers below $300 M total so I have to reject this."

Boras doesn't make the decision, the player does. And GMs don't get to make contingency offers.

Further, after Boras invents the mystery $300 M offer for Cole in response to the $280 offer, why isn't he going to invent a mystery $280 M offer for Strasburg in response to the $260 offer? He's greedy and deceitful enough to try to sucker the GM to get the Cole offer increased by $20-25 M but he's gonna do the GM a solid on Strasburg? In the scenario, if I was the GM and he said "sounds good" to $260 for Strasburg, I might pull the offer cuz it seems Boras considers $260 so much better than he expected that he's not even gonna try to sucker me.

Boras of course sometimes makes mistakes. If Cole ended up signing for $270 then being cavalier about the $280 offer was a mistake and possibly a mistake that benefited his other client Strasburg. Just like if they had different agents. A conflict arises only if he is cavalier with the $280 offer for Cole because he believes that will benefit his other client. As long as he believes the $300 M bluff benefits Cole, there was no conflict in that conversation. Admittedly, that he gets the agent fee either way means he has less personal risk in being cavalier about the $280 offer.

A conflict arises if a GM offers $260 M for Strasburg and Boras says "you know, I can give you Cole for just $20 M more." Which of course is why a smart guy like Boras would never say that. A more likely conflict is after the Cole offer is rejected and the GM says something like "you know, I've got other options." That puts zero pressure on Boras because he's got Strasburg too but theoretically it should put pressure on Cole -- so a conflict arises if Boras doesn't pass onto Cole that this GM might look elsewhere (possibly followed by "but don't worry about it, you'll have plenty of offers.") Collusion would be if Strasburg receives an offer he likes but Boras either suggests he holds off on signing or that he hold out for more because he thinks signing now would hurt Cole's value ... or similarly advises one of these guys to take a "low" offer now so it will boost his other client's value.

And just how brilliant do we think Boras thinks he is? (don't answer that) Do we really think he can optimize two $250-300 M negotiations such that his combined take across the two deals is maximized? That he's got some model that suggests that if he gets Cole $300 M then he's only going to be able to get Strasburg $240 M but if he can get Cole down to $280 then he can get Strasburg up to $270, thereby getting (say) a combined $55 M agent fee rather than $54? And that extra $1 M is worth risking a lawsuit over conflict of interest? Besides, I'd say chances are the more money he can get for Cole, the more he can get for Strasburg or vice versa. So maximizing one is maximizing the other which means his "conflict" is to work in the interests of both clients, not set them against one another. And of course if he can maximize both contracts, he maximizes his fee.

Which brings us back to the GM's motivation. He's giving free info on his thinking and, especially if he believes Boras is unethical, basically guaranteeing that at least one GM gets screwed (i.e. paying a higher price for at least one of those guys than necessary) and there's a good chance it will be him. He's reducing pressure on Boras which is silly if he thinks Boras is the one running the show. Internally they will have gone through their own assessment of whether they'd rather have Cole at $X or Strasburg at $Y and whether either of those $ values is likely to be competitive.

Without question, this would all be cleaner if every FA had a different agent ... or if every set of FAs "competing" with one another had a different agent. But that's not realistic and impossible to enforce -- these guys signed with Boras like 8 years ago without knowing how this would all work out, how can you force one of them to a different agent now? They've also known for the last few years that they might be on the FA market at the same time but didn't change agents. Strasburg even had the option to not be on the FA market this year but chose to do so (and didn't change agents). So, barring some "Chinese wall" (Law & Order, don't blame me if it's racist) like Boras has different associates in charge of receiving offers for each pitcher and makes them pinky swear not to tell him (I suspect something like this is the case), it's impossible for Cole's and Strasburg's "agents" not to share information since they share a brain. But it remains possible that their "agents" don't inform the players what the other is up to.
   32. Walt Davis Posted: November 14, 2019 at 07:43 PM (#5901245)
As to bears ... just how active do you think "active" bears are in zoos. Heck, in the wild when "active" all they're doing most of the active time is walking slowly from A to B ... and they aren't doing a lot of wild salmon fishing or fighting for alpha male status in the zoo. An "active" zoo bear is one that's sitting up, looking in the direction of people and maybe eating something. God only knows what the ratio of film footage (OK, gigabytes stored) shot to broadcast is in David Attenborough's career -- 10,000 to 1?
   33. Omineca Greg Posted: November 14, 2019 at 08:25 PM (#5901258)
Everybody here is missing Boras' point about the bears. I'm sick and tired of the ####### anthropocentric bias of this board. "You are not able to enjoy the zoo as it should be", does not mean you cannot enjoy the zoo. How can you not enjoy the zoo? Everybody likes the zoo! It's part of a perfect day, knock back some sangria in the park, go home when it gets dark, feed the animals in the zoo, a movie too, and forgetting yourself, thinking you're someone else...someone good.

The key part is "the zoo as it should be". Do you know how the zoo should be? All the bears should be asleep, or they should all be awake. That's how the zoo should be, not making animals work shifts just so you sick people can always have a bear to gawk at. You are separating families, keeping them in a cage, what kind of [POLITICS REDACTED]. Bears belong together, being awake at the same time. Where do you want Baby Bear to learn to #### in the woods (if you've ever tried it, it's harder than it would seem at first glance), out on the streets? From some so-called teacher? You see, this is how we get one of those self-perpetuating oligarchy thingies, keep bear families apart for commercial gain, and pretty soon the rich bears, like, I dunno, the Berenstain Bears, they're like the ursine Kardashians, they can send the cubs to private school, and their wood shitting will be ever so chic. But the poorer bears, like I dunno, The Hillbilly Bears, they'll have to go to one of those cruddy schools, they won't learn anything, and next thing you know Paw Rugg is pushing weight to support his family, gets nabbed by the fuzz, and Floral Rugg is selling her ass to raise her Paw's bail. All because the nuclear bear families were ripped apart by a bunch of zoo-goers who were more concerned about making sure their "zoo time" was absolutely perfect in every way. Do you ever think of anything but yourself?

I tell you, when I was a kid, we went to the zoo, and they had polar bears, and they never even moved. And we'd say, "Mom, mom, why don't the bears ever move?" And our mom would say, "Because it's hot out, and polar bears like it when it's cold. The bears are depressed and sad, and long for the tundra, but instead they're stuck here." And this was in 1975, so don't think my mom was one of these janie-come-latelies to animal rights, she was right there in the vanguard. When they finally closed down the zoo, the polar bears were the only animals that no other zoo would take, because they were sick and old, so they were stuck in the polar bear pit, while one by one they died, until there was just one left.

Tuk the Bear

And here's the pull quote...

His favorite Tuk story is about the time in the early 1980s when someone tossed a kitten into the polar bear pool. Tuk jumped in, delicately removed the kitten with his teeth, licked it dry and tucked it safely under his paw.

Mackintosh said zoo staff never knew whether Tuk was showing compassion, or simply saving the kitten for a later snack.

The kitten was removed safely.


Yep, just a perfect day.
   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 14, 2019 at 09:58 PM (#5901285)
The bears are depressed and sad, and long for the tundra
Pining for the fjords, perhaps?
   35. Howie Menckel Posted: November 14, 2019 at 10:49 PM (#5901293)
I have mentioned before that I saw a bear while hiking a couple of years ago. as is the case with most bears, this one didn't give a crap about us.

only problem is this was near the top of a very steep mountain (by East Coast standards), and the bear was standing up and eating some berries off a tree. if he's oh, 30 feet off the trail, I believe you could just walk on by and never even be noticed. but the tree was only a couple of feet off the trail, which was potentially problematic. so we took the 'walk of shame' back down the mountain.

early last fall, I saw three bears - Mama and two cubs - casually strolling down the hill on a short road that connects a Target parking lot from my condo complex. that was..... weird, even though there are some woods close by and they all ventured back in there.

maybe there was a back-to-school sale at Target, but all three were naked and I didn't see any packages. so maybe a pumpkin spice latte sale at the Starbucks in there?

bears are pussies, btw. usually. if you see one and you yell at it or even make a move towards it, the bear almost certainly will run away.

the NY Times once had a story, though, on what to do in the rare case that they hold their ground. apparently playing dead gets you mauled to death a bit less often than fighting back - but (to cross-thread to the Adam Wainwright/Carlos Beltran chatter) at that point you're liable to be doomed either way.
   36. DanG Posted: November 14, 2019 at 11:33 PM (#5901304)
bears are pussies, btw. usually. if you see one and you yell at it or even make a move towards it, the bear almost certainly will run away.
We all have our bear to cross.
   37. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 14, 2019 at 11:36 PM (#5901307)
And DanG has won the thread.
   38. Bhaakon Posted: November 15, 2019 at 12:11 AM (#5901312)
Nailed it.
   39. Howie Menckel Posted: November 15, 2019 at 01:04 AM (#5901316)
indeed. Primey.

I unintentionally set up one of those long jokes that seem to be going nowhere, pretty much - until the punch line.
   40. manchestermets Posted: November 15, 2019 at 05:09 AM (#5901321)
An "active" zoo bear is one that's sitting up, looking in the direction of people and maybe eating something.


When I went to Madrid zoo, the locals were ignoring all the "Do not feed the animals" sign and throwing all sorts across the pit to the bears. They were the most active zoo bears I've seen.

Bears are great.

Montpellier zoo, Boras would not have been a fan of.

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