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Monday, September 30, 2019

Brad Ausmus out after 1 season with Los Angeles Angels | ESPN

With Ausmus’ dismissal, there will be immediate speculation that his replacement will be Joe Maddon, who parted ways with the Chicago Cubs on Sunday. Before his first big league managerial job with the Tampa Bay Rays, Maddon worked for years in the Angels organization, and sources told ESPN’s Buster Olney that owner Arte Moreno has high regard for Maddon.

No secret who the Angels will be chasing.

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 30, 2019 at 02:52 PM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angels, brad ausmus, joe maddon

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   1. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: September 30, 2019 at 02:54 PM (#5884693)
No secret who the Angels will be chasing.
Sure, Whitey Herzog would listen if the Angels called.
   2. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 30, 2019 at 02:56 PM (#5884696)
Even in LA, looks only get you so far.
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 30, 2019 at 02:57 PM (#5884698)
If you can't win with a rotation of Jamie Barria, Jose Suarez, Dillon Peters, Chris Stratton, Matt Harvey, and Trevor Cahill, what are you even doing?
   4. The Duke Posted: September 30, 2019 at 03:21 PM (#5884711)
This will now be the second time Maddon has caused a team to fire its manager
   5. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 30, 2019 at 03:42 PM (#5884722)
Any guesses on Maddon's Angels salary?

I wonder if it will be less than half of the $6M the Cubs paid him.
   6. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: September 30, 2019 at 03:58 PM (#5884729)
You don't fire him unless you've got Maddon locked up, right?
   7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5884730)
I wonder if it will be less than half of the $6M the Cubs paid him.

I don't think Maddon would sign for a big pay cut.
   8. jmurph Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:12 PM (#5884731)
I don't think Maddon would sign for a big pay cut.

It's not like he would be leaving a higher paying job to do so, he's currently without a team.
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:14 PM (#5884732)
It's not like he would be leaving a higher paying job to do so, he's currently without a team.

No, but there's going to be a pride factor.
   10. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:33 PM (#5884739)
I doubt the Angels went to the trouble of somewhat unexpectedly firing their manager to lowball the guy they want to replace him. I’d think Maddon would command ~ $5M per year, which is small potatoes for the Angels, with some sort of bonus for playoff success.
   11. eric Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:33 PM (#5884740)
I can't imagine the FO could possibly have expected better results this year given the pitching staff, the injuries, and so forth. But they also have no real farm system and only two, maybe three, players who are at least decent (jury's still out on Tommy La Stella).

All this is to say, what exactly would they expect Joe Maddon to do to earn whatever outrageous salary I'm sure they'd have to pay him? He's not going to turn a 72-win team into a 92+ win team. The Angels need to get rid of the has-beens and never-were's, develop talent pipeline, and only once there appears to be potential should they worry about shelling out for a name-brand manager.
   12. JAHV Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:36 PM (#5884741)
I don't think Ausmus managed the team all that well, but there are two caveats:

1) He had a really tough situation to deal with given the starting pitching situation. His best one died mid-season, and the rotation wasn't exactly robust before that.
2) Even given that, I don't think he managed the pitching staff well, but I have no idea how much of that was him and how much was instruction from the GM. If Eppler was telling him to avoid 3rd time through the order, I have a hard time blaming Ausmus for the bullpen running out of gas in late July.

As an Angels fan, I don't know what happens from here. Hiring Maddon is fine, if that's the way they go. He's definitely an upgrade on Ausmus, but he's also getting up there in age and seems like he's lost his fastball over the last several years. The roster is the bigger issue, but it's not like they're hopeless there. They obviously need two starting pitchers. I'd be fine if both of them were named "Cole." But to get their rotation to a good place, Moreno needs to open the pocketbook in a way he hasn't in free agency since he got burned by Josh Hamilton. Their position player roster is fine other than catcher. Obviously, it's not EASY to accomplish those things, but it's not complicated. I just don't see the manager as being all that critical to the Angels' success.
   13. jmurph Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:38 PM (#5884742)
I doubt the Angels went to the trouble of somewhat unexpectedly firing their manager to lowball the guy they want to replace him.

Tough to find all the numbers, but looks like Francona is the last man standing making over $3 million, at around 4 or so. So, in this hypothetical offered above, "lowballing" would mean making him the 2nd or so highest paid manager in baseball.
   14. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:44 PM (#5884746)

I can't imagine the FO could possibly have expected better results this year given the pitching staff, the injuries, and so forth. But they also have no real farm system and only two, maybe three, players who are at least decent (jury's still out on Tommy La Stella).

All this is to say, what exactly would they expect Joe Maddon to do to earn whatever outrageous salary I'm sure they'd have to pay him? He's not going to turn a 72-win team into a 92+ win team. The Angels need to get rid of the has-beens and never-were's, develop talent pipeline, and only once there appears to be potential should they worry about shelling out for a name-brand manager.


The Angels play in the second biggest market in the league and have the best player in the world, there really is no excuse for them not being competitive every year. Upton, Simmons, and Ohtani were all hurt a lot this year, they'll have one of the best prospects in baseball up in the next year or two, and even with some bad deals on the books, they should be able to add a couple of good pieces to this team to improve them quite a bit.
   15. bfan Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:47 PM (#5884748)
When your manager's salary itself is a fraction of your star player's salary, and the difference between one manager's salary and another's is 1/10th of what an okay middle reliever would get, does it really make sense to talk about manager's salaries as some factor on what a team can and cannot afford?
   16. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:48 PM (#5884749)
Tough to find all the numbers, but looks like Francona is the last man standing making over $3 million, at around 4 or so. So, in this hypothetical offered above, "lowballing" would mean making him the 2nd or so highest paid manager in baseball.
It’s not like the Angels are Maddon’s only suitors, if published reports are any indication. Offer him “only” $3M, and he might have to call you back because his other phone is ringing.
   17. jmurph Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:51 PM (#5884750)
It’s not like the Angels are Maddon’s only suitors, if published reports are any indication. Offer him “only” $3M, and he might have to call you back because his other phone is ringing.

I have no predictions on what he'll make, just trying to add some info to the discussion. As far as I can tell, only one manager gets paid that kind of money, Francona at $4 million. Lots of guys are making under $1 million, and all the other recent big money managers are gone (Bochy, Scioscia, etc.).
   18. jmurph Posted: September 30, 2019 at 04:52 PM (#5884751)
When your manager's salary itself is a fraction of your star player's salary, and the difference between one manager's salary and another's is 1/10th of what an okay middle reliever would get, does it really make sense to talk about manager's salaries as some factor on what a team can and cannot afford?

I don't think anyone was doing this? People are just speculating on the numbers since he was, until yesterday, the highest (or maybe tied for the highest) paid manager in the game.
   19. salvomania Posted: September 30, 2019 at 05:09 PM (#5884756)
I honestly had no idea Ausmus was the Angels' manager.
   20. Shredder Posted: September 30, 2019 at 05:09 PM (#5884757)
All this is to say, what exactly would they expect Joe Maddon to do to earn whatever outrageous salary I'm sure they'd have to pay him? H
Be attractive to potential free agents? I mean, I don't know if he's a better draw for Cole or whoever than Ausmus would have been, but maybe he is? That's pretty much the whole ball of wax for the Angels this off-season. They should look a lot more attractive than they did at this time last year primarily because Trout is locked up. I don't know what Pat Corbin's thought process was last year, but you have to think that one of the things FAs thought about when considering the Angels was whether Trout would be gone in a year or two. No need to worry about that anymore.

If they can upgrade at catcher, the lineup actually looks pretty decent next year, especially if LaStella's season wasn't a total fluke prior to injury (even if it was, they're still not terrible). The bullpen is fine. The rotation is bad, but not so bad that signing an ace can't fix a lot it. Heaney, Canning, Pena, Ohtania, and Sandoval/Suarez/Peters is not great, but bump those first four down a spot in the rotation behind Cole and that doesn't look too bad. Not good enough to catch Houston without the Astros catching a lot of rotten luck, but maybe wild card worthy?
e's not going to turn a 72-win team into a 92+ win team.
For 2019, everything had to break right, and instead, everything that could have gone wrong more or less did. I don't think they're as bad as their record. Their season ended in the top of the 8th inning on July 25th. They were 4.5 games out of the WC, but they’d won four straight, and were 9-3 since the all star break, coming off a two game sweep of the Dodgers, with seven straight games against the two worst teams in the AL, all at home. They had just scored three in the bottom of the 7th to go up 4-2. Buttrey blows a two run lead, the game ends up going 16 innings, they still end up losing, while absolutely decimating the pitching in the process, and they just never recovered. I still feel like if he just gets through that inning, the season ends entirely differently. Maybe not with a playoff spot, but they just folded the tent after that game. By the time September rolled around, they were pretty much fielding a AAA team.
   21. Shredder Posted: September 30, 2019 at 05:21 PM (#5884760)
You don't fire him unless you've got Maddon locked up, right?
Ausmus seemed pretty dime a dozen to me. If you fire him to get Maddon and miss out, it's probably not that big of a deal, other than you're paying for the other two years on his contract. The only person who should care about that is Arte, though.
   22. bfan Posted: September 30, 2019 at 05:41 PM (#5884766)

I don't think anyone was doing this? People are just speculating on the numbers since he was, until yesterday, the highest (or maybe tied for the highest) paid manager in the game.


No biggie, but it seems like it to me, as in will he take a pay cut? what would he do to earn an outrageous salary; the Angels low-balling the guy, and so on.

Clayton Kershaw gets roughly $1 million per start; give Madden $50,000.00 per team win and you should be thrilled with the results, right? Or, for a fun gamble, give him nothing for wins 0-81, and then $500,000.00 for every win above 81.
   23. Baseballs Most Beloved Figure Posted: September 30, 2019 at 05:44 PM (#5884767)
A good argument can be made that the Angels have the two best baseball players on the planet in Trout and Ohtani.
   24. eric Posted: September 30, 2019 at 05:46 PM (#5884769)
Be attractive to potential free agents? I mean, I don't know if he's a better draw for Cole or whoever than Ausmus would have been, but maybe he is? That's pretty much the whole ball of wax for the Angels this off-season. They should look a lot more attractive than they did at this time last year primarily because Trout is locked up. I don't know what Pat Corbin's thought process was last year, but you have to think that one of the things FAs thought about when considering the Angels was whether Trout would be gone in a year or two. No need to worry about that anymore.


That's fair. If they get Maddon (who might be interested?) and Trout+Maddon makes the team attractive to enough free agents and they get lucky they can maybe get the wildcard.

I just hate the idea of paying a high price for mediocrity. Using free agency to get up to 85-90 wins is an expensive way to be playing golf in October. Building up a farm system that can throw off regular useful players is the way to get and remain competitive. Buying your way to the top always seems to leave a team top-heavy and under-performing. But they do have plenty of space before the lux tax kicks in, so we'll see.
   25. Shredder Posted: September 30, 2019 at 06:04 PM (#5884773)
Building up a farm system that can throw off regular useful players is the way to get and remain competitive.
Well, they're doing that, too. It's just that when Eppler got there, the farm system was worse than terrible. It takes time. They have one draft pick who looks like he'll be a rotation mainstay, and Adell ought to be up for good either the middle of next year or spring 2021. They've gone from last to probably better than middle of the pack. But they're also under constant criticism for "wasting Mike Trout". Eppler's made some pretty decent deals (Simmons, Heaney, even Upton was pretty good because it meant they could re-sign him without losing draft comp). If LaStella is for real, add that to the list. The Goodwin pickup was probably part lucky and part good. What he hasn't been able to do is fill in via free agency, but he hasn't had a lot to work with. He's been somewhat forced into making a series of low risk gambles (Cozart, Harvey, Cahill, Allen), all of which have turned out terribly, but haven't really cost them anything.
   26. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 30, 2019 at 06:43 PM (#5884783)
I doubt the Angels went to the trouble of somewhat unexpectedly firing their manager to lowball the guy they want to replace him.


The Nats did it a few years back, so you never know...
   27. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 30, 2019 at 06:47 PM (#5884784)
They obviously need two starting pitchers. I'd be fine if both of them were named "Cole."


Well, the Rays just DFA’d Cole Sulser, and I can’t imagine that the Indians would want all that much for A.J. Cole, so that seems pretty achievable.
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 30, 2019 at 06:57 PM (#5884786)
A good argument can be made that the Angels have the two best baseball players on the planet in Trout and Ohtani.

Did Christian Yelich, Alex Bregman, Cody Bellinger, Jacob deGrom and 30 other guys just die?
   29. Red Voodooin Posted: September 30, 2019 at 08:26 PM (#5884806)
A good argument can be made that the Angels have the two best baseball players on the planet in Trout and Ohtani.


A terrible argument can be made. Did you mean "interesting" as opposed to "best"?
   30. Howie Menckel Posted: September 30, 2019 at 08:39 PM (#5884808)
Did Christian Yelich, Alex Bregman, Cody Bellinger, Jacob deGrom and 30 other guys just die?

too soon
   31. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: September 30, 2019 at 09:32 PM (#5884815)
Give Ohtani 300 PAs and 30 starts with his projected stats, and he's got a case for top-10 status. Of course, that's not top-2, and he hasn't had a full season of either, so...
   32. The Duke Posted: September 30, 2019 at 10:02 PM (#5884820)
So this makes one wonder whether cubs fired Maddon or Maddon fired the cubs
   33. Red Voodooin Posted: September 30, 2019 at 10:43 PM (#5884824)
So this makes one wonder whether cubs fired Maddon or Maddon fired the cubs


The Cubs fired Maddon last year when they didn't extend him.
   34. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: September 30, 2019 at 11:41 PM (#5884827)
A good argument can be made that the Angels have the two best baseball players on the planet in Trout and Ohtani.


He had 425 PA this year for 2.5 WAR. Let's be generous and lower that to 2.0 for 300 PA. Last year he had 10 starts for 1.2 WAR. Triple that and he's at 3.6. That's 6.1 WAR, which is very nice, but would be #11 in the AL this year.
   35. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: October 01, 2019 at 08:34 AM (#5884846)
What could the Angels have possibly seen in Ausmus' time in Detroit to think "We need THAT guy" in the first place? Going to Dartmouth and being able to speak in complete sentences gets you more chances than you deserve as a manager in MLB.

EDIT: People I (irrationally) hold most responsible for the Tigers never winning one:

1 - Aubrey Huff
2 - Jarrod Washburn
3 - Brad Ausmus
4 - Every relief pitcher

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