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Friday, August 04, 2006

Braves bench Focus on the Family

Focus on the Family was on the team that promoted Major League Baseball’s first “Faith Days” event at Turner Field July 27, but the Atlanta Braves now say the anti-gay group headed by James Dobson is no longer part of its lineup.

One might like to think it’s about FotF’s anti-gay views, but more likely it’s because someone realized that the group was part of an effort to block the team’s acquisition by the “pornographers” at Liberty Media.

Mac Thomason Posted: August 04, 2006 at 03:35 PM | 105 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, teams

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   1. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: August 04, 2006 at 04:37 PM (#2126959)
Might as well go ahead and shut this thread down now before it begins.
   2. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:18 PM (#2127022)
I wonder how these folks would react if I showed up at their church this Sunday with a few friends and started playing catch in the aisle during the service.
   3. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:22 PM (#2127030)
Didn't Smoltz play guitar during this?
   4. Tony H. Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:28 PM (#2127044)
“Smoltz, a devout Christian, criticized those who want to legalize gay marriage,” the AP reported. “‘What’s next? Marrying an animal?’ he asked derisively.”


What. A. Jackass. Sweet, now I have another player I can root against, and he plays for the Braves, so I don't really mind.
   5. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:37 PM (#2127063)
“Smoltz, a devout Christian, criticized those who want to legalize gay marriage,” the AP reported. “‘What’s next? Marrying an animal?’ he asked derisively.”
Well, ain't that what your wife did? <drumroll, please>
   6. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:40 PM (#2127070)
Interesting thing about the article is the gigantic picture of Smoltz hitting rather than pitching.
   7. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:44 PM (#2127084)
It would really be better if Smoltz never, ever talked to the press. Never comes off well.
   8. Colin Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:44 PM (#2127085)
I fully agree with mac here; this likely has nothing to do with homosexuality, and everyting to do with the attacks on the team's buyers.
   9. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:46 PM (#2127091)
Those poor peresecuted Christians.
   10. DosRafaels Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:50 PM (#2127100)
I'm not a big Braves fan, but attend about 40 games a year because I unfortunately live about 2 miles from Turner Field. And from the beginning I just thought that this whole Faith Day thing was going to backfire. The South loves its religion like nobody else, but it just seems like guys like me who are actually going to the games are probably a little less religious than the average southerner. I mean, I've got respect for people's religious faith but I don't go to the ballpark to hear some players and James Dobson tell me that stem cell research is murder and that gays are going to hell. Attendance has been going down for about 5 years now, but I think that the Braves are going to wind up pissing off people who don't want to think about their baseball team as a bunch of religious nuts (aka Colorado Rockies) and probably piss off some of the real zealots who want to see a gays and secular section instituted on the top deck. I think that this is going to end badly.
   11. HowardMegdal Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:51 PM (#2127103)
Dominating the Braves and ending their run just gets better and better. My favorite way that the Braves focus on the family comes from Bobby Cox, who does it with a left hook.
   12. Antigonos Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:51 PM (#2127104)
Faith Day has to be the worst idea for a promotion I've ever heard of. Was it an inter-faith promotion?
   13. "Catching Dianetics" by Dr. L. Ron Karkovice Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:54 PM (#2127110)
The folks at the North American Man Domesticated Animal Free Love Association are not going to be happy abou this!
   14. CraigK Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:56 PM (#2127117)
Faith Day has to be the worst idea for a promotion I've ever heard of. Was it an inter-faith promotion?

Yeah; and they search out gay people and crucify them during the seventh-inning stretch!

(There, that should guarantee this topic 20,000 replies.)
   15. "Catching Dianetics" by Dr. L. Ron Karkovice Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:57 PM (#2127118)
Faith Day has to be the worst idea for a promotion I've ever heard of. Was it an inter-faith promotion?

Yes, the national anthem was being sung by head fundraiser for the Kandahar Mujahadeen Association and the ceremonial first pitch was being thrown by the former head of the Tamil Tigers (for those of you not up on international politics, they are not a Rookie League farm club for Detroit)
   16. Chris in Wicker Park Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:57 PM (#2127121)
Have these people ever watched Cinemax? Is Liberty Media really that different than Time Warner?
   17. Famous Original Joe C Posted: August 04, 2006 at 05:58 PM (#2127124)
Dominating the Braves and ending their run just gets better and better. My favorite way that the Braves focus on the family comes from Bobby Cox, who does it with a left hook.

[insert joke about David Wright and snake oil]
   18. HowardMegdal Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:02 PM (#2127134)
Even if Wright had been part of an obscure religious cult, I'd put beating one's wife as far worse on the "Can I root for him?" scale.

But you gotta love Smoltz's anti-gay marriage stance. Really, between this, Cox, the Rocker years, A Jones' smug superiority and Larry naming his kid Shea, the Braves have given me plenty of reasons to root against them.
   19. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:09 PM (#2127144)
Yes, because dogs are full citizens with the legal right to sign a marriage contract.
   20. CraigK Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:11 PM (#2127149)
I don't play baseball in their damn church; I don't want them passing around bullshit in our ballparks.
   21. CraigK Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:14 PM (#2127153)

But you gotta love Smoltz's anti-gay marriage stance. Really, between this, Cox, the Rocker years, A Jones' smug superiority and Larry naming his kid Shea, the Braves have given me plenty of reasons to root against them.


Ditto; this is making me hope the Mets win the division; and I'm a Cards fan!
   22. John M. Perkins Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:17 PM (#2127158)
As a baseball fan who is a lunatic fringe leftie, I'm for this...
anything to get people into the ballpark.

True baseball fans come for the game, anybody else coming for other entertainment value helps to subsidize my interest. It's not like the Braves don't have other promotions that the Faith Days people don't like.

True Faith Day is believing that the Braves will still win the East this year, even after the Mets series.
   23. HowardMegdal Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:21 PM (#2127160)
"Yes, because dogs are full citizens with the legal right to sign a marriage contract."

If this were the case, would you favor person-dog marriages? Also, if a dog with the ability to talk and reason is born, how on earth can we deny that dog citizenship?

I'm pretty liberal I guess, I'm pretty sure I'd favor both. In the meantime, here in reality, I'll stick to advocating for gays having the right to marry (which is real) and save up my zeal for suffrage of reasoned, talknig dogs (which is, alas, not yet real.)
   24. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:31 PM (#2127183)
‘What’s next? Marrying an animal?

you make that sound like that's a BAD thing..

as they say down here "if we get divorved, are we still brother and sister?"
   25. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:34 PM (#2127188)
Yeah, I guess my statement was pretty cyclical. But yes, I agree with you. A dog can't marry because it fails most of the tests for humanness. If a dog came along that passed them, I wouldn't oppose its right to marry. And I really would be uninterested in the number of penises or vaginas involved in the union.
   26. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:42 PM (#2127200)
But you gotta love Smoltz's anti-gay marriage stance. Really, between this, Cox, the Rocker years, A Jones' smug superiority and Larry naming his kid Shea, the Braves have given me plenty of reasons to root against them.

Don't forget the non stop winning. That usually gets under people's skin as well.
   27. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:45 PM (#2127208)
the group was part of an effort to block the team’s acquisition by the “pornographers” at Liberty Media.

this after years of putting up with Ted Turner and the communists at CNN
   28. HowardMegdal Posted: August 04, 2006 at 06:52 PM (#2127223)
"Don't forget the non stop winning. That usually gets under people's skin as well."

As someone who favors underdogs, yes, that is not a point in favor. But for instance, I hate the Yankees, but the passionate loathing of Mariano does not exist for me. I wish he had the personality of say, Gary Sheffield.
   29. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:00 PM (#2127231)
More on Smoltz (unfortunately): Our household got an automated phone call from Smoltzie on the weekend before the primary election on behalf of Ralph Reed, the Abramoff-scandal-tainted former head of the Christian Coalition/Pat Robertson flunkie who was running for Lt. Governor.

I'll just paraphrase Springsteen and say, "Trust the pitch. Not the pitcher."
   30. Famous Original Joe C Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:09 PM (#2127241)
But you gotta love Smoltz's anti-gay marriage stance. Really, between this, Cox, the Rocker years, A Jones' smug superiority and Larry naming his kid Shea, the Braves have given me plenty of reasons to root against them.

Don't forget the non stop winning. That usually gets under people's skin as well.


Every one of these is a reason, HM. Won't dispute that.
   31. base ball chick Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:17 PM (#2127260)
well, me i gotta root against the braves. it's kinda in the astros fan Book Unwritten ROOLZ.

unless they playing in the WS.

but this "faith day" stuff is really bad. it just makes christians look bad.

and some of them "christians" starting to sound just like them arab mullah terrorist people and this is makin me sound REAL upset.

now i would be ok with a "faith day" if it was to praise the fact that tolerence of ALL faith is what america is all about.

- but i would not be surprised if mac right and it really all about the benjamins
   32. HowardMegdal Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:25 PM (#2127270)
"now i would be ok with a "faith day" if it was to praise the fact that tolerence of ALL faith is what america is all about."

Would this include tolerance of atheism? How would it work, exactly?

I think a better idea is to stay away from religion at the ballpark. But maybe that's just me.
   33. Flynn Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:29 PM (#2127272)
You know, the Giants had these well before the Braves did, and it wasn't really a big deal.

Granted, they didn't involve James Dobson.
   34. Rodder Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:43 PM (#2127291)
I am still honestly waiting for someone to explain to me why "Faith Day" is a bad idea. It is simply one of many marketing events that target a very wide portion of their community. Admitedly, I am a Bible thumper and love the things of the Lord. Still, I don't get upset at "Japanese-American Day," and would not be upset by Catholic Faith Day, or Hindu Faith Day. I wouldn't be upset by them having Republican Night or having Democrat Night. I understand there is a segment of society that despises anything to do with Christianity, but I honestly would like someone other than a bigot to explain why it is a problem.
   35. JMM Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:44 PM (#2127294)
True Faith Day is believing that the Braves will still win the East this year, even after the Mets series.

Hooky throws out the first pitch, right?
   36. Penarol1916 Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:49 PM (#2127297)
Would this include tolerance of atheism? How would it work, exactly?


Atheism is a faith. It's just faith that there is no god. The real people that would be excluded would be agnostics, although you could say that they have faith that nobody knows anything and never will.
   37. Randy Jones Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:50 PM (#2127300)
and some of them "christians" starting to sound just like them arab mullah terrorist people and this is makin me sound REAL upset.

I've long held the opinion that the only difference between christian fundamentalists and muslim fundamentalists in that the christians have money and power. Take those away and they would be running around blowing themselves up to kill "infidels" too.
   38. JMM Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:51 PM (#2127303)
I understand there is a segment of society that despises anything to do with Christianity, but I honestly would like someone other than a bigot to explain why it is a problem.

Well, there's the self-pitying whining that being annoyed by any attempt by certain Christians to shove their religion down everyone else's throats is "despising anything to do with Christianity" rather than hating arseholes who use their faith to justify their a-holish behavior.
   39. Antigonos Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:55 PM (#2127307)
I understand there is a segment of society that despises anything to do with Christianity, but I honestly would like someone other than a bigot to explain why it is a problem.

Why is "Faith" day only christian?

It is not Christianity that people have a problem with...it is the endless proselytizing and moralizing that has been going on in this country since you know who became president. Enough is enough. I'm glad the Braves dumped Dobson for this event..still, what is the point of this? Keep it in the church.
   40. Rodder Posted: August 04, 2006 at 07:59 PM (#2127314)
Again JMM, I don't see this as an "attempt by certain Christians to shove their religion down everyone else's throats," but simply a marketing attempt to sell more tickets. I don't think of "Bring your dog to the game" promotions as shoving pet ownership down my throat. I haven't ever attended a "Faith Day," so please let me know what kinds of activities that take place there are the problem.
   41. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: August 04, 2006 at 08:00 PM (#2127316)
I just wanted to jump in with an appreciation that the current ad on the bottom of this page is for "Free Christian Debt Help" as heard on Focus on the Family. That's just awesome.
   42. Rodder Posted: August 04, 2006 at 08:03 PM (#2127322)
still, what is the point of this?

To sell tickets.
   43. Penarol1916 Posted: August 04, 2006 at 08:06 PM (#2127327)
I don't think of "Bring your dog to the game" promotions as shoving pet ownership down my throat.

I do, god how I hate animals and people who treat their pets better than people.
   44. Rodder Posted: August 04, 2006 at 08:08 PM (#2127331)
I just wanted to jump in with an appreciation that the current ad on the bottom of this page is for "Free Christian Debt Help" as heard on Focus on the Family. That's just awesome.

Exactly. Another example of how this kind of marketing goes on in a million ways in our society. This is really nothing new.
   45. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: August 04, 2006 at 08:10 PM (#2127332)
I just wanted to jump in with an appreciation that the current ad on the bottom of this page is for "Free Christian Debt Help" as heard on Focus on the Family. That's just awesome.

Where did this "Christian Debt" come from? I was under the impression that we still frowned on all manners of usury as one of the most abominable of sins.

To paraphrase David Rees, A bucket isn't going to lie to me about my financial standing!
   46. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: August 04, 2006 at 08:14 PM (#2127335)
and some of them "christians" starting to sound just like them arab mullah terrorist people and this is makin me sound REAL upset.

While christian fundamentalism is the most dangerous force in the world, don't worry baseball chick. Its might isn't aimed at you yet.
   47. bunyon Posted: August 04, 2006 at 08:16 PM (#2127337)
More on Smoltz (unfortunately): Our household got an automated phone call from Smoltzie on the weekend before the primary election on behalf of Ralph Reed, the Abramoff-scandal-tainted former head of the Christian Coalition/Pat Robertson flunkie who was running for Lt. Governor.

I've been a fan of Smoltz for a long time. Of course, my rooting interest is in him as a baseball player.

There is one point in the quoted paragraph that really and truly outrages me. And it has nothing to do with politics. Automated phone calls are the work of the devil and a good Christian like Smoltz should know that.
   48. base ball chick Posted: August 04, 2006 at 08:43 PM (#2127369)
Penarol1916 Posted: August 04, 2006 at 04:06 PM (#2127327)

I don't think of "Bring your dog to the game" promotions as shoving pet ownership down my throat.

I do, god how I hate animals and people who treat their pets better than people.

well, problem is some pets treat their people bettern other people do

(barry lamar Dog sez WOOF - which means yeah, baby YEAH, now howz about you scratch my ears?
phat stuff Dog sez GMMMMMF which mean, hey mama, any FOOD left on that plate, i ain't eaten in 3 whole MINUTES i'm starvin to death here)
   49. Shredder Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:01 PM (#2127388)
I am still honestly waiting for someone to explain to me why "Faith Day" is a bad idea.

Outward displays of religion in non-church settings makes a lot of people uncomfortable. This includes people who go to church every week. For a lot of people, religion is a very personal thing. How does one celebrate "faith day" without some sorts of outward displays of religion? People are already divided over overt displays of patriotism at baseball games.

I understand there is a segment of society that despises anything to do with Christianity, but I honestly would like someone other than a bigot to explain why it is a problem.

Well, at least you're open-minded.

Still, I don't get upset at "Japanese-American Day"

Not really the same thing. But in that vein, that didn't stop crazy racist ##### Michelle Malkin from going apoplectic when she learned that the Rangers were celebrating Cinco de Mayo. But as funny as that sounds, it's not half as funny what's contained in that post:

Case in point: Can you imagine if someone proposed changing the Rangers' jerseys to "Confederate Rangers" to celebrate Confederate Heroes' Day?

Uh-huh, because celebrating Mexican independence is the same as celebrating "heroes" of a group of people who tried to secede from the United States. And it gets better...

While it's considered a celebration of "diversity" to acknowledge the military sacrifices of another nation's heroes, it's considered racist to acknowledge the military sacrifices of one's own.

RIGHT! Because no team in the major leagues EVER have military appreciation days!! NONE!
   50. More Dewey is Always Good Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:16 PM (#2127398)
Uh-huh, because celebrating Mexican independence is the same as celebrating "heroes" of a group of people who tried to secede from the United States.

Not that it changes your point, but Cinco de Mayo is not Mexican Independence Day (That's Sept. 16 and recognizes the declaration of independece from Spain in 1810), but a celebration of the battle of Puebla (which was in 1862 and was against the French, who were trying to force the Mexican government to pay back monies they had borrowed from them).
   51. Mattbert Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:18 PM (#2127401)
but I honestly would like someone other than a bigot to explain why it is a problem.
I like to think I'm just as bigoted as the next guy, but I'll give it a shot. A sports franchise using religion as a marketing tool is a bad idea because it violates one of those proverbial Grandpa's Rules: you don't discuss religion and politics in polite company. It should come as no surprise that celebrating religion in a nominally secular forum is going to be controversial in this day and age. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's the way it is.

So why use faith to market the team when it's inevitably going to be construed as a wedge issue by at least some portion of the community? I have trouble understanding what benefit the marketing folks see in this promotion. How many extra fans are drawn to Turner Field because of Faith Day? How many fans are alienated or antagonized (whether that's the fans' problem or the religion's problem is irrelevant) by Faith Day? I reckon it's a wash at best. If my intuition is corrent, if Faith Day doesn't constitute a significant boost in revenue, then why bother?

Besides, everyone in attendance already has a seat in the Church of Baseball. Celebrating another religion at the ballpark seems just as intrusive to me as if the Rotarians held a big bash for the Nation of Islam or if a bunch of people showed up at the local synagogue with big foam hatchets and cut loose with a rousing rendition of The Chop.

There's nothing inherently offensive to me about religion, but the ballpark isn't the right venue for it. Injecting religion into that context, especially given the divisive social climate we've cultivated for ourselves these days, is, as Grandpa wisely anticipated, just asking for trouble.
   52. Penarol1916 Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:19 PM (#2127403)
well, problem is some pets treat their people bettern other people do


How exactly is that a problem?
   53. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:21 PM (#2127405)
Folks, what's the big deal here?

Atlanta's in the South, and they have to pander to the Crimson Red, NASCAR loving, Bubba-Jethro-and-Billy-Bob demo.

If this type of thing starts moving up north (i.e., if it gets anywhere D.C. or Baltimore), West (St. Louis or Cincy, depending on your tastes) or South (Tampa or Miami), THEN I'd be worried.

But not yet.
   54. HowardMegdal Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:26 PM (#2127409)
"If this type of thing starts moving up north (i.e., if it gets anywhere D.C. or Baltimore), West (St. Louis or Cincy, depending on your tastes) or South (Tampa or Miami), THEN I'd be worried.

But not yet."

So you'd have been for Popular Sovereignity?

Just curious.
   55. philevans3154 Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:27 PM (#2127412)
If this type of thing starts moving up north (i.e., if it gets anywhere D.C. or Baltimore), West (St. Louis or Cincy, depending on your tastes) or South (Tampa or Miami), THEN I'd be worried.

But not yet.


Christian Family Day has been going on in St. Louis for a while. This year's featured speaker was Danny Wuerffel. Yes, Danny Wuerffel. A friend of mine got some slick Cardinal baseball cards, complete with testimonials instead of stats.
   56. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:33 PM (#2127418)
a celebration of the battle of Puebla (which was in 1862 and was against the French, who were trying to force the Mexican government to pay back monies they had borrowed from them).

And to impose an Austrian emperor on the Mexicans. That was a wacky little war.

This year's featured speaker was Danny Wuerffel. Yes, Danny Wuerffel.

Terry Dean was unavailable?
   57. Ozzie's gay friend Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:33 PM (#2127419)
What's next? Taliban day?
   58. Mattbert Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:40 PM (#2127424)
It's amusing to me that Malkin is all fired up about the Tejas (oops) Rangers celebrating a "holiday" that, as currently constituted, has everything to do with giving young Americans another excuse to get drunk and very little to do with the relatively innocuous Mexican holiday from which it is derived. Cinco de Mayo is just like St. Patty's in America. The vast, vast majority of the revelers have no investment in the holiday beyond margaritas and green beer.
   59. "Catching Dianetics" by Dr. L. Ron Karkovice Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:46 PM (#2127429)
Christian Family Day has been going on in St. Louis for a while. This year's featured speaker was Danny Wuerffel. Yes, Danny Wuerffel. A friend of mine got some slick Cardinal baseball cards, complete with testimonials instead of stats.

Man, you'lve got to send those in for grading. If one of those comes back a PSA 10, that could mean big Ebay-bucks which you can then donate to your local mega-church.
   60. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:47 PM (#2127430)
I've long held the opinion that the only difference between christian fundamentalists and muslim fundamentalists in that the christians have money and power. Take those away and they would be running around blowing themselves up to kill "infidels" too.

The name Eric Michael Rudolph springs to mind. Escept he only blew up other people.
   61. "Catching Dianetics" by Dr. L. Ron Karkovice Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:49 PM (#2127433)
I heard Mike Piazza was threatening to retire if the Braves allowed Focus on the Family to participate in this event.
   62. MikeinMI Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:50 PM (#2127434)
As a Christian, if you want to have "Faith Day" at the old ballyard. It's easy. Get a group of Christians together, have them go to the game. Don't get drunk, don't shout obscenities, be nice, and be happy.

I am more upset that anyone would use faith to sell baseball tickets (Including the local minor-league team). Much like I didn't like that Mel Gibson showed "Passion..." to church leaders to get them to promote it. And I don't like that some political parties say that if you vote for the other guy, you're not a Christian. That's crap. No politician or their crony decides that for me.

I'll step off my soap box now.
   63. Mattbert Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:54 PM (#2127436)
Atlanta's in the South, and they have to pander to the Crimson Red, NASCAR loving, Bubba-Jethro-and-Billy-Bob demo.
Why? Would those people not come to the park or watch the games on television if they weren't pandered to? Do the Giants pander to the godless pinko fags in the Mission or the bleeding heart hot tubbers in Marin?
   64. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:55 PM (#2127438)
54, May I ask what Popular Sovereignty stands for?

55, Shoot, that is a little more worrisome (as I think of St. Louis as more Midwestern than Southern).
   65. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:57 PM (#2127441)
As a Christian, if you want to have "Faith Day" at the old ballyard. It's easy. Get a group of Christians together, have them go to the game. Don't get drunk, don't shout obscenities, be nice, and be happy.

This is exactly what happened at Shea Stadium this Easter Sunday. Upper deck tickets were only two bucks, which lent itself to large groups turning up, and lots of Christians were off at church, so it turned into a de facto Jewish Day. The yarmulkes were there in abundance. Of course, I ended up sitting with a group of round and friendly Wisconsiners (the Brewers were the opponent).
   66. philevans3154 Posted: August 04, 2006 at 09:58 PM (#2127442)
Man, you'lve got to send those in for grading. If one of those comes back a PSA 10, that could mean big Ebay-bucks which you can then donate to your local mega-church.

The price appears to be $7.51 at the top end.
   67. Mattbert Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:03 PM (#2127446)
This is exactly what happened at Shea Stadium this Easter Sunday. Upper deck tickets were only two bucks, which lent itself to large groups turning up, and lots of Christians were off at church, so it turned into a de facto Jewish Day.
That's like the old joke about the last day of Hannukah actually being celebrated in movie theaters across America on December 25th.
   68. "Catching Dianetics" by Dr. L. Ron Karkovice Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:05 PM (#2127451)
I've long held the opinion that the only difference between christian fundamentalists and muslim fundamentalists in that the christians have money and power. Take those away and they would be running around blowing themselves up to kill "infidels" too.

Sounds perfectly reasonable...After all, Muslim states such as Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Oman, and United Arab Emirites are all totally impoverished wastelands with no access to any raw materials or energy products that the rest of the world craves, and certainly do not have the power, wherewithall or "Western" know-how to create a trade cartel that directly influences the majority of world markets....

Certainly the Muslim world's primary grievances are merely materialistic and have no ideological, religious, cultural, or historic basis.

Surely if the Muslim populace just had better access to healthcare, X-boxes, DVD-players, Jenna Jamison videos and Starbucks they would be no different from Joe-Churchgoer in Alabama.

....And surely you have never lived in the Middle East..... Also, if fundamentalist Chrisitanity (and I certainly am no supporter of fundamentalist Chrisitianity but find your logic extremely faulty) had access to MORE POWER and MORE WEALTH wouldn't they be MORE inclined to carry out their dastardly acts of terrorism and pillage that you ascribe to them.

The name Eric Michael Rudolph springs to mind. Escept he only blew up other people.

That's right, because Eric Rudolph is the perfect example of a fundamentalist Christian...I am sure most professing Christians that attend Braves games spend their weekends in paramillitary training learning how to maximize the number of "non-Christians" they are able to slaughter come judgement day.
   69. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:06 PM (#2127453)
or if a bunch of people showed up at the local synagogue with big foam hatchets and cut loose with a rousing rendition of The Chop


Not unlike God using an angelic chorus to explain to Abraham the logistics of circumcision.

Best Regards

John
   70. JMM Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:07 PM (#2127454)
As a Christian, if you want to have "Faith Day" at the old ballyard. It's easy. Get a group of Christians together, have them go to the game. Don't get drunk, don't shout obscenities, be nice, and be happy.

Which, of course, a lot of churches do all on their own without demanding that the team set aside a particular day to "honor" them. Of course, these people are most likely vertical prayers instead of horizontal.

Do the Giants pander to the godless pinko fags in the Mission or the bleeding heart hot tubbers in Marin?

They don't need to: the former already come so they can check out the players' butts and/or packages, and the latter are too coked up their own arseholes to bother with something as pedestian and crass as professional sports anyways. ;)

Or something....
   71. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:07 PM (#2127457)
That's right, because Eric Rudolph is the perfect example of a fundamentalist Christian...I am sure most professing Christians that attend Braves games spend their weekends in paramillitary training learning how to maximize the number of "non-Christians" they are able to slaughter come judgement day.

Well, of course not. But he is an example of how fundamentalist Christianity (at the lunatic fringe) can result in similar activities.
   72. philevans3154 Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:08 PM (#2127458)
55, Shoot, that is a little more worrisome (as I think of St. Louis as more Midwestern than Southern).

I like to think of St. Louis as an island of mildly conservative Democrats surrounded by a sea of Branson-loving christian conservatives.
   73. "Catching Dianetics" by Dr. L. Ron Karkovice Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:09 PM (#2127459)
Man, you'lve got to send those in for grading. If one of those comes back a PSA 10, that could mean big Ebay-bucks which you can then donate to your local mega-church.

The price appears to be $7.51 at the top end.


My favorite part is the description of the back of the card:
The back has Pujols' testimony of his relationship with Christ, as well as two bible verses. It reads: "Over the last several years my life has drastically changed. I went from a kid with a dream in the Dominican Republic, to one day playing professional baseball, becoming Rookie of the Year, to becoming the 2005 National League's MVP. But what has not changed is my love for Christ. My soon to be wife, Deidre had been sharing with me how much Jesus loved me. In the spring of '98 my most exciting moment came when I asked Christ to come into my life. If it weren't for Jesus Christ I would not be where I am today. I give God all the credit for every single at bat and without Him, my life would be without purpose. I've heard kids say they want to be just like Albert Pujols when they grow up. They should know I want to be just like Jesus."

Dude! You're on pace for a .340/.420/.640 with 47 HR 129 RBI and play on a playoff contender...You ARE JESUS!
   74. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:10 PM (#2127461)
I like to think of St. Louis as an island of mildly conservative Democrats surrounded by a sea of Branson-loving christian conservatives.

Are you implying that St. Louisans aren't Yakov fans? How unamerican.
   75. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:14 PM (#2127462)
Dude! You're on pace for a .340/.420/.640 with 47 HR 129 RBI and play on a playoff contender...You ARE JESUS!


Tim McCarver just rent his garments, donned sackcloth and ashes and is beating his breast wailing in a frenzy of religious agony as stigmata emerges on his hands, feet, sides but sadly not his vocal chords.

The real Messiah is located just beside the man whose actions prompted the response "just turn the other cheek."

Best Regards

John
   76. philevans3154 Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:15 PM (#2127464)
Are you implying that St. Louisans aren't Yakov fans? How unamerican.

St. Louis is Jim Stafford country.

I give God all the credit for every single at bat and without Him, my life would be without purpose.

So god was the 2005 National League MVP?
   77. Rodder Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:18 PM (#2127469)
but I honestly would like someone other than a bigot to explain why it is a problem.

I now see this was bad wording on my part. I didn't intend to imply that any of the above posters were bigots, or anyone who disagreed with me was a bigot, what I meant to say was would somebody answer my question with a true explanation, as opposed to opening up the floor to bigoted "I hate whichever religious group" responses. Shredder, Mattbert and others did give good explanations and I appreciate that. It seems to me, this would be the main issue

it violates one of those proverbial Grandpa's Rules: you don't discuss religion and politics in polite company.


Still, I guess that I have been to enough promotion nights to think that the entire "Faith Day" is going to be comprised of a few clergymen from various faiths throwing out the first pitch, a local church choir singing the national anthem, and maybe some gospel or other spiritual music between a couple of innings. To me, that seems innocent enough.
   78. JMM Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:18 PM (#2127470)
That's right, because Eric Rudolph is the perfect example of a fundamentalist Christian...I am sure most professing Christians that attend Braves games spend their weekends in paramillitary training learning how to maximize the number of "non-Christians" they are able to slaughter come judgement day.

Do most fundamentalist Muslims spend their weekends planning suicide bombings? Or, like Eric Rudolph, are those who do a lunatic fringe (the size of the fringe is irrelevant to the question, since the original point was about the relationship between material desparation and such acts, not about faith)?
   79. Rodder Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:32 PM (#2127479)
A lot depends on semantics and your definition of the word Christian fundamentalist. Some would say that means someone who holds to a literal interpretation of the Bible as the source of their beliefs. Others would say it means wackos who want to blow up buildings. Personally, I consider myself to fit the first definition, and with the exception of Tropicana Field, not to fit the second.

I am sure there are numerous other definitions of the words.
   80. Mattbert Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:32 PM (#2127480)
or if a bunch of people showed up at the local synagogue with big foam hatchets and cut loose with a rousing rendition of The Chop

Not unlike God using an angelic chorus to explain to Abraham the logistics of circumcision.
Cut loose indeed.
   81. A triple short of the cycle Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:46 PM (#2127486)
Do the Giants pander to the godless pinko fags in the Mission or the bleeding heart hot tubbers in Marin?


Not sure... but godless pinko Mission hetero dudes root for the A's.
   82. Gary Hoggatt Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:46 PM (#2127487)
Why are Christians proselytizing at the ballpark? I don't have Buddhists playing bagpipes in the bathroom. You don't see Shintoists shattering sheetglass in the sh!thouse.
   83. Flynn Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:52 PM (#2127494)
but godless pinko Mission hetero dudes root for the A's.

Since no godless pinko Mission hetero person is actually from San Francisco, that'd make perfect sense.
   84. CraigK Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:53 PM (#2127496)

So god was the 2005 National League MVP?


Why not? Satan won it seven times; give God one.
   85. Kirby Kyle Posted: August 04, 2006 at 10:59 PM (#2127509)
Why not? Satan won it seven times; give God one.

Correction: Steve Garvey won only one MVP.
   86. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:03 PM (#2127515)
Ditto; this is making me hope the Mets win the division; and I'm a Cards fan!

Gee, do you think they can hang on to their lead???? (rolls eyes)
   87. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:04 PM (#2127520)
Why? Would those people not come to the park or watch the games on television if they weren't pandered to?

Probably not. Not every team is the Red Sox, the Braves have a lot of tickets on their hands they are trying to move.

Which, of course, a lot of churches do all on their own without demanding that the team set aside a particular day to "honor" them.

You seem a little confused. No church or group "demanded" these days. The Braves came up with this promotion to put butts in seats. All the Christian stuff takes place after the stadium clears out after the game.

Much praise for Rodder for swimming with the sharks here and coming out fairly unscathed.
   88. Srul Itza Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:06 PM (#2127523)
"drumroll, please"

You mean <rimshot>
   89. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:19 PM (#2127552)
I don't get upset at "Japanese-American Day," and would not be upset by Catholic Faith Day, or Hindu Faith Day.

Rodder, I'm a bit of a bigot on this issue, so instead of trying to explain what the problem is, may I ask instead why when they plan a "Faith Day", they don't call it "Christian Faith Day", like you would have them call "Catholic Faith Day", etc? Why is it assumed that everyone will understand that it's "Christian Faith Day"? Isn't Atlanta a diverse city these days?
   90. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:24 PM (#2127562)
Cut loose indeed.


And after Abraham performed the first circumcision he forever cemented the Jewish stereotype of being good with money by offering the first "stalk tip."

Sorry. Truly. Really. That was bad. Even for me. I'm going to my room and letting my wife give me a good spanking.

A really good spanking.

Best Regards

John
   91. Rodder Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:36 PM (#2127594)
may I ask instead why when they plan a "Faith Day", they don't call it "Christian Faith Day",

Though I can't really answer for the Atlanta Braves marketing dept, my guess is for the same reason the teams are not called the Miami Marlins or Denver Rockies. That is, to broaden the appeal of the name as much as possible.

I would hope, that if it truly is a "faith day," it would be opened up to all faiths. I don't see the marketing advantage in it being otherwise.
   92. Mefisto Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:38 PM (#2127597)
May I ask what Popular Sovereignty stands for?

I'm not Howie, but I can answer this.

In the lead up to the Civil War, the big issue was what to do about slavery in the Territories (US land bought from France or taken from Mexico but not yet formed into states). One of the proposals, pushed hard by Stephen Douglas, among others, was Popular Sovereignty. By that he meant that the people living in a particular territory should be allowed to decide the issue without interference from the Federal Government or other states.

Several things served to discredit the doctrine, which is why Howie referred to in a derogatory way. First, Southern slaveholders wouldn't accept it. They demanded what they called equal access to the Territories and insisted that the Federal Government protect their right to bring slaves into them. The Dred Scott case accepted this theory, holding that slaveholders couldn't be deprived of their property in the Territories without due process of law. This meant that a territory could not actually ban slavery, but was forced to accept it regardless of the voters' wishes. Second, the experience in Kansas demonstrated that the slaveholders would not actually accept a democratic ban on slavery. They used violence and fraud to impose a pro-slavery constitution on Kansas. That led to civil war there. Third, Lincoln pointed out the moral flaw in Douglas's position: Douglas could say "let the people decide" only because he did NOT consider slavery a moral wrong. Those who did consider slavery a moral wrong, like Lincoln, could not accept a pro-slavery result.
   93. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:38 PM (#2127598)
The Smoltz comment was funny, especially so when if you remember back to an earlier gay marriage thread where I believe some posters here denied that an argument was being made against gay marriage saying that it would lead to inter-species marriage. Leave it to the horse's arse to prove them wrong.
   94. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:44 PM (#2127607)
I would hope, that if it truly is a "faith day," it would be opened up to all faiths. I don't see the marketing advantage in it being otherwise.

I would hope so, too, but from reading the article, it didn't seem so. I don't think you'll find too many synogogues participating. Or mosques. Etc. And, I think that's by design. My guess is that that organization in Nashville that is running the show is a Christian organization, and I would further bet that they spent little, if any, effort to include any faiths other than Christian. And, if I am correct, that may be a reason why it's a problem for some people.
   95. Dylan Formerly in Phx Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:50 PM (#2127616)
So how about this for a conspiracy: The Republican and Christian evangelical think tanks have decided that baseball is ripe for the picking. Hey, it was once considered "America's National Pastime" as patriotic as mom, dad, and apple pie. We're already signing "God Bless America" on National Holidays and Sundays (why Sundays?) and we're supposedly on the upswing of a previously scandalous and immoral point in the game that is in the process of getting cleaned up. Perfect time to start the takeover. After all, football is too barbaric, basketball is too "urban". NASCAR isn't making enough headway.
   96. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:55 PM (#2127629)
football is too barbaric

Too barbaric for Republicans and Christians? That's funny.
   97. Mattbert Posted: August 04, 2006 at 11:55 PM (#2127630)
Joe,

I think that Smoltz comment regarding the slippery slope to bestiality was made a couple years ago and may have actually been the pretext for that thread you're recalling. If memory serves, he was roundly criticized for the remark in the media and later offered some sort of apology or retraction.
   98. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: August 05, 2006 at 12:03 AM (#2127652)
he was roundly criticized for the remark in the media and later offered some sort of apology or retraction.

Now there's a man with the courage of his convictions. Whether criticized or not, whether retracted or not, it proves that at least on a grassroots level, that attitude exists amongst the Smoltzes of the world. My gut tells me his apology or retraction was an empty one, and that he and those like him still believe that slippery slope argument.
   99. Mattbert Posted: August 05, 2006 at 12:06 AM (#2127660)
All the Christian stuff takes place after the stadium clears out after the game.
The concert and player speech(es), yes, but not all of it. From the article:

At the Braves game July 27, in which the Atlanta team was trounced by the Florida Marlins 6-1, Focus on the Family representatives passed out materials about its programs. Some of the programs highlighted at the game, according to the Focus on the Family’s website, included its Focus on Parenting program (www.focusonyourchild.com), which features a “Hot Topic” about children and homosexuality and how gay activist groups are “targeting” public schools. Other materials passed out included a packet on Troubledwith.com, a website for individuals and families in crisis that also lists homosexuality as a topic.

Southern Voice appears to be a news outlet intended for the gay community, so the source is not without its biases. But this does read as if Focus on the Family, and presumably other elements of Faith Day, were integrated during the time of the game itself.
   100. Mattbert Posted: August 05, 2006 at 12:10 AM (#2127668)
My gut tells me his apology or retraction was an empty one, and that he and those like him still believe that slippery slope argument.
I don't doubt it. I certainly wasn't trying to defend him, I just knew I'd seen that comment of his quoted before.
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