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Saturday, October 17, 2020

Could the 2020 Astros join the 2004 Red Sox

Now the 2020 Houston Astros are trying to match one of Boston’s historic achievements: The Red Sox are the only team in major league postseason history to win a best-of-7 series after losing the first three games. The Astros forced Saturday’s Game 7 with a 7-4 win over the Tampa Bay Rays on Friday at Petco Park in San Diego.

But like the game at Yankee Stadium in 2004, you wonder if it will come down to the first two innings and not the ninth. You could see the dichotomy in emotions on one play in the sixth inning of Game 6. It was 5-1 at the time, but the Rays put two on with one out against Valdez, who had just walked Yandy Diaz, with the two exchanging words after Diaz barked at Valdez after ball four. Valdez was now approaching 100 pitches and tiring, but he induced Brandon Lowe to hit into a double play, Lowe slamming his helmet down on the ground as he crossed over first base. Valdez pumped his first and celebrated with Correa and Altuve as he walked off the field. After that play, I texted a friend, “This series is over.”

I know. Baseball isn’t supposed to be like that. Momentum is a word used by writers and pundits, not players. But the frustration for the Rays is there. We can see it.

A lot more to the piece than this with a nice breakdown comparing games 4-6 of the respective series. The momentum thing reminds me of a conversation I had in 2004 with a friend.  As I said then, the Sox were the hottest team in baseball since the 2004 Yankees three days earlier.  I wouldn’t give too much credence to that but if the Astros get off to a hot start I don’t see the Rays coming back (like 2004).

Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: October 17, 2020 at 09:27 AM | 59 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: alcs, comebacks

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   1. winnipegwhip Posted: October 17, 2020 at 10:11 AM (#5983494)
   2. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: October 17, 2020 at 11:14 AM (#5983501)
Once the Yankees were bounced, I don't care who does what in the playoffs this year except to say that watching Rob Manfred hand over the World Series trophy to Jim Crane for an Astros team that played to a losing record in the regular season would be the perfect ending to the supersized playoffs of this idiotic season.
   3. Roger Cedeno's Spleen Posted: October 17, 2020 at 01:51 PM (#5983518)
If the Astros get to the World Series inside a quarantine bubble maybe it will shut up one of the most annoying arguments about the cheating scandal. "This instance of cheating was especially bad because it made a merely good team into a championship team. The World Series was tainted/stolen." This is completely different from how the Patriots, who make the Astros look like choirboys, were treated. There's no real stigma. Belichick and Brady will cruise into the Hall of Fame, but nobody from the 2017 Astros (except somebody like Verlander who built a HoF case with another team) is going to get in no matter what they do in the rest of their career. The NFL is a different sport, with a different culture and expectations, but the Patriots mainly get a pass because the assumption is that the Patriots were just so good that they would have won anyway. The cheating was wrong, but it was also pointless. The closeness of the 2017 postseason may have also contributed to the "Astros just weren't that good argument." The Red Sox cheated in 2018, but they sailed through the postseason. Nobody obsesses about their 'tainted' title, perhaps because any cheating is considered incidental to an outcome that was predetermined.

The Astros attempted an idiotic, amateurish scheme that was probably the dollar store version of more sophisticated schemes run by other teams. It gained them about as much advantage as the Patriots got from deflating footballs (of course we'd think about Deflategate differently if the Patriots won in overtime instead of blowing the Colts out). Yes, they violated the rules. They tampered with equipment with the intent of gaining competitive advantage. They deserved to be punished (and players should have been suspended too... each player proved to be cheating by video evidence should have been docked 10 games just like anyone who gets caught corking or scuffing). They deserved to be booed... for being total dumbasses as much as for being cheaters. What other teams did does not excuse them. Taking the law into your own hands is still wrong. The ineffectiveness of their scheme does not excuse them. Shooting at somebody is still a crime, even if you miss. But hopefully this postseason will end the narrative that the Astros are frauds who weren't as good at baseball as they seemed to be...
   4. Red Voodooin Posted: October 17, 2020 at 02:33 PM (#5983526)
#3 makes no sense. The Patriots got a massive amount of #### for their transgressions and those scandals are constant fodder for the "hater crowd" much the same way we are seeing with the Astros this year.
   5. Roger Cedeno's Spleen Posted: October 17, 2020 at 02:45 PM (#5983527)
The Patriots are huge villains outside of New England, and it will be the same for the Astros going forward. The difference is that nobody places an asterisk on the Patriots' on-field accomplishments.
   6. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 17, 2020 at 03:04 PM (#5983530)
the Astros are frauds who
Poop their pants.
   7. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 17, 2020 at 03:21 PM (#5983534)
Well, unlike the Astros, the Patriots didn't cheat.
   8. Nasty Nate Posted: October 17, 2020 at 03:37 PM (#5983536)
Today is the 16th anniversary of Game 4. That game was the last Yankees appearance by El Duque. He was the sole pitcher on either team to only appear in one game that series.
   9. Nasty Nate Posted: October 17, 2020 at 03:48 PM (#5983538)
7 of the Red Sox players from that series later played for the Yankees. I hope those living reminders were fun for the fans!

None in the other direction.
   10. Astroenteritis Posted: October 17, 2020 at 04:20 PM (#5983543)
Charlie Morton is nails, that is all. Rays will win, then everyone can relax and the world will be safe for whatever.
   11. JRVJ Posted: October 17, 2020 at 04:26 PM (#5983544)
Whatever happens later today, the Astros have made it abundantly clear that they are a very talented team, and a very, very deep team.

Losing Verlander, losing Yordan Álvarez, losing Roberto Osuna, all those things are big, and they overcame it (not to mention losing G. Cole in the off-season).

One has to believe that they will eventually pay the price of losing 1st and 2nd round picks in 2020 and 2021, but I, for one, am impressed with what Houston has done this post-season.
   12. Howie Menckel Posted: October 17, 2020 at 04:26 PM (#5983545)
It gained them about as much advantage as the Patriots got from deflating footballs

and Tom Brady got suspended for 4 games - which many fans who hate the Patriots in general thought was an overbid by the NFL.

The Astros players skated with no penalty. That matters to many fans.

so far, the Astros showed up against the Twins and Athletics, which for nearly 2 decades has been all that was required to eliminate them.
   13. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 17, 2020 at 04:39 PM (#5983546)
Losing Verlander, losing Yordan Álvarez, losing Roberto Osuna, all those things are big, and they overcame it (not to mention losing G. Cole in the off-season).
Overcame it? They were under .500.
   14. SoSH U at work Posted: October 17, 2020 at 04:47 PM (#5983548)
so far, the Astros showed up against the Twins and Athletics, which for nearly 2 decades has been all that was required to eliminate them.


Yes, but what happened in 2002, 2004, 2015, 2019, has absolutely no bearing on 2020. With a win tonight, the Astros will have beaten non-fluke division champions in all three rounds of the playoffs.
   15. JRVJ Posted: October 17, 2020 at 04:56 PM (#5983550)
13, they are in game 7 of the ALCS.

Seems pretty good to me.
   16. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 17, 2020 at 04:58 PM (#5983551)
They’re in game 7 of the ALCS because more than half the teams made the playoffs this year and they’re playing well in a well-timed small sample size.
   17. JRVJ Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:17 PM (#5983555)
16, they have shown that they can play well, against some of the better teams in the sport (Minnessota won the Central and was tied for the 2nd best record in the AL; Tampa won the East, had the best record in the AL and the 2nd best record in MLB), in a small sample size.

Seeing as how a 60 game season is not the same as a 162 game season, I see no reason to treat it as it were the same.
   18. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:22 PM (#5983558)
Any team can play well against some of the better teams in the sport in a small sample size. I’m not saying the Astros are a crappy team, but let’s not say they haven’t been affected by losing players.
   19. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:23 PM (#5983559)
Poop their pants.
BBTF has an unhealthy emphasis on pants shitting. I blame George Brett.
   20. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:24 PM (#5983560)
I think Sammy Sosa was the original fraud who pooped his pants, wasn’t he?
   21. JRVJ Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:30 PM (#5983562)
18, they wouldn't be were they are (ALCS Game 7) if they hadn't been able to win without those players.


Would they have preferred to have those players during the regular season and post-season? Of course.

Would they have been a better regular season team with those players? Almost certainly.

Would they have been a better post-season team with those players? Maybe. It's difficult to see how they would have done better than how they beat the Twins, but they would have probably benefited from having Verlander starting, Osuna relieving and Álvarez hitting.

Having said that, the above suppositions buttress my point. The Astros have shown themselves to have been a very talented team and a very, very deep organization (that second "team" on 11 should have been "organization").
   22. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:32 PM (#5983563)
But they didn’t win without those players! They were under .500 and wouldn’t have come close to the playoffs in a normal year.
   23. JRVJ Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:49 PM (#5983566)
A normal year would have been 162 games and would have included normal spring training.

Would Verlander have been injured in that scenario? I doubt it.

Would Osuna? Maybe.

Would Álvarez? Who knows? (in his case, it was a nagging knee injury very early in the 2020 season. He may have dealt with that early in a normal season and be back in the latter part of the season).
   24. Nasty Nate Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:52 PM (#5983567)
Trivia: what 3 "speedsters" hit the only triples in the 2004 ALCS?
   25. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:53 PM (#5983568)
I think Sammy Sosa was the original fraud who pooped his pants, wasn’t he?

Indeed so. I blame Jeff Pearlman.
   26. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:55 PM (#5983569)
You think it was the lack of a normal spring training that sent Verlander to TJ rather than the cumulative stress on his elbow of pitching in the majors for 15 years or whatever? I guess it’s possible, but that seems like a pretty unlikely assumption.

But in any event, if you’re arguing they wouldn’t have been injured in a normal season, that doesn’t support your saying that they successfully overcame the injuries that did happen.
   27. JRVJ Posted: October 17, 2020 at 06:10 PM (#5983571)
First statement: that's very much what I'm saying, and the record of injured pitchers during 2020, where they did not have their usual ramp up seems to support that conclusion for Verlander and all others.

Second statement: I'm sorry, this makes no sense. I answered your point about a normal season by pointing out that 2020 was not a normal season and that the injuries the Astros had to deal with may not have happened in a regular season.

That's a completely separate statement from what the Astros did do this year, especially once they got into the playoffs.
   28. Howie Menckel Posted: October 17, 2020 at 06:16 PM (#5983572)
right church, wrong pew in Post 25

did we ever get the identity of the BBTFer who wrote this inspired parody?


Posted 9:43 p.m., June 3, 2003 (#97) - Jay Mariotti
SAMMY SOSA IS A FRAUD WHO POOPS HIS PANTS

by Jay Mariotti

Thau shalt not cheat. That's the first thing they taught you in little league. Hustle, play hard, worry about winning if it makes you play better, just have fun if it doesn't. Have fun, play within the rules, shake the other team's hand after the game, and we'll go for a tasty freeze afterward.

But don't cheat.

I don't know if they have little league down in the Dominican Republic, but Sammy Sosa must have missed that day of class.

Sammy was a hero to so many.

He was a hero to Edna Terwilliger, who has faithfully attended every home game since 1923 in spite of her blindness and the Cubs' listlessness.

He was a hero to Roberto Sanchez, a native of San Pedro de Macoris, who works the overtime shift at the meat packing plant just so he'll have the extra cash to come to come see his countryman in a game or two over the weekend.

He was a hero to my son, Jay Jr.

He'll be a hero no more. Sammy Sosa is a fraud and all of his accomplishments are forever tainted. The 500 home runs, the smile on his Hall of Fame plaque, the race against McGwire during that magical summer of 1998.

Tainted. Forever.

Just when it looked like everything was coming together for one glorious season, with Dusty in the dugout and Prior on the mound and the Yankees coming to town for the first time in seventy years. Just when it looked like it was safe, for the first time in a long time, to believe in this franchise. Just as the calender had turned to June - Cubs fans dug in, waited for their pitch -

And took a collective beanball to their head.

Sammy Sosa is a fraud who poops his pants.

There is no joy in Wrigleyville today.

-JM
   29. Walt Davis Posted: October 17, 2020 at 06:34 PM (#5983577)
Minnessota won the Central and was tied for the 2nd best record in the AL; Tampa won the East, had the best record in the AL and the 2nd best record in MLB

Both pretty much meaningless statments this year because of the schedule. The most that can be said about the Twins is that they were better than any other team in the ALC and probably any team in the NLC because those were the only teams the Twins played. Similar for the Rays and the ALE/NLE. This is the first time we are getting to see any cross-division play.
   30. JRVJ Posted: October 17, 2020 at 07:30 PM (#5983582)
29, I disagree.

Division winners are always important, and the best overall record in the league is nothing to sneeze at. It may not be to your liking, but that's on you.
   31. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 17, 2020 at 10:16 PM (#5983619)
BBTF has an unhealthy emphasis on pants shitting.


Not all. Most Red Sox fans are partial to pants pissing. We've been doing that for years.
   32. Howie Menckel Posted: October 17, 2020 at 10:35 PM (#5983626)
Mets fans are prone to self-immolation.

we all have our idiosyncrasies.
   33. Rally Posted: October 17, 2020 at 10:42 PM (#5983627)
And of course Smitty, who hates pants.
   34. Meatwad Posted: October 17, 2020 at 10:54 PM (#5983635)
Um Verlander was hurt in spring training. He would have missed plenty of time only to come back and get hurt again.
   35. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 17, 2020 at 11:55 PM (#5983671)
Could the 2020 Astros join the 2004 Red Sox?
NOPE!
   36. Howie Menckel Posted: October 17, 2020 at 11:59 PM (#5983674)
NARRATOR: They did not.
   37. Doug Jones threw harder than me Posted: October 18, 2020 at 12:33 AM (#5983677)
Rays in! Go Dodgers!
   38. Walt Davis Posted: October 18, 2020 at 03:34 AM (#5983683)
the best overall record in the league is nothing to sneeze at

But it wasn't the best overall record in the American League (or even tied for 2nd best) because there was no American League this year. You had 3 "leagues," each with two "divisions" and an unbalanced schedule and no inter-league play. MLB didn't think that was worth mentioning. MLB then switched back to the traditional AL vs NL for the playoffs.

The Twins had the best record in the Central League ... by 1 game over the White Sox and Cleveland and 2 games over a pretty ordinary Cubs team. The Dodgers dominated the Western League, the Rays comfortably had the best record in the Eastern League.

There is no additional information from this season to apply to allow you to rank Twins vs A's or even Astros. You could of course bring in last year or 2020 ZiPS projections or other info to try to make a case that the Twins were the 2nd best team in the AL. For example, the Dodgers have won their division several times now and projected extremely well so we can be pretty confident they are one of the better teams in baseball quite likely better than, say, the Cubs or the Twins.

Amazingly all 7 Central teams that went to the playoffs lost their opening series, lost 14 of 16 games, which is a small sample but still pretty suggestive that maybe the Central was a pretty weak league. Losing all 7 series in a crapshoot would be an impressive run of bad luck but losing 14 of 16 games suggests it was not a very even crapshoot.

Looks like no ALC team has won a playoff series since Cleveland in 2016.
   39. The Duke Posted: October 18, 2020 at 09:18 AM (#5983688)
The witch is dead! The witch is dead !
   40. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 18, 2020 at 10:53 AM (#5983692)

But it wasn't the best overall record in the American League (or even tied for 2nd best) because there was noA merican League this year. You had 3 "leagues," each with two "divisions" and an unbalanced schedule and no inter-league play...


To play Devil's advocate is there any reason to think that the central divisions or whatever we're talking are inferior to the others? I mean there's no reason to suggest that is there? Citing the fact that teams didnt play each other suggests a lack of data on that subject but hardly proves it one way or the other.

Looking at what data we do have: every year it seems we measure the "difference" between AL and NL and none of these convince me there's anything more than statistical noise. I mean if you go back to the 60s sure, I guess, it seems there was some difference. But nowadays? That's hard to believe for me. ANd if there wasnt much difference last year or the year before I doubt anyone's going to find it on a sample size of 60 games. Its basically the same 1000 players drawn from the same bowl of stew and they wear different uniforms each year. Its hard to imagine the central divisions have somehow mutated overnight into some version of deformed ball players...

Which is not to say I disagree with your overall point. Just your reasoning here. There's really not enuf data pts. to make much of a case for any team being significantly or objectively better than teams just a position or two behind them. What did we come up with during the normal seasons? Two teams with same stats might come out what 7 or 8 games different in the standings? Theres that much noise in the data.

What can you do then say with a 60 game season? WIthout delving into statistical theory I'd say we just barely have enuf data pts. to form limited conclusions. I would think same/similar teams might no better than plus/minus 5 games of each other.
   41. pikepredator Posted: October 18, 2020 at 10:58 AM (#5983694)
I hate the Dolphins annual "let's pop champagne since we're still the only undefeated team" thing. So childish and stupid.

As a Sox fan I really feel like popping champagne since we're still the only team to come back from 3-0.
   42. sunday silence (again) Posted: October 18, 2020 at 11:12 AM (#5983695)

I hate the Dolphins annual "let's pop champagne since we're still the only undefeated team" thing. So childish and stupid.


Thing that irks me about it, is that season was really just fortuitious that they went undefeated they certainly werent the juggernaut that we've seen from typical historical great teams. The 76 Steelers for instance just went nuts down the stretch and I think they allowed one TD in ten games or something. There's other Cowboy and 49er and Patriot teams that you could cite here.

In the first round of the Dolphins run, they were losing to CLE in the fourth quarter but came back to win. They were probably a better team but they got a fortunate pass interference in the game winning drive and Phipps through like 5 interceptions so it was hardly a blow out. The AFC final was even less convincining. The Steelers were winning early on until punter Larry Seipl ran a fake punt for 37 yards. WHo does that? I mean kudos to the Dolphins for exploiting a sort of recurring weakness in their special teams but that play was bizarre, you can see Steelers running downfield AHEAD of Seipl? No one's paying any attention to the punter running with the ball. Bradshaw was out most of the game, again Dolphins deserve to win but hardly convincing.

And the super bowl was even stoopid with George ALlen's silly run run pass theory of offense. It was 14-7 in a game that was more boring than you can imagine. It was a different era a lot of teams played really conservatively and the hash marks were still way out there which hampered the passing game.


Whatever Dolphins.
   43. Mike A Posted: October 18, 2020 at 12:09 PM (#5983698)
"The champagne story is ridiculous. People really do think that we’re a bunch of angry old men and we gather and just root for that last undefeated team to get beat and when they do, we pop the champagne. I think the thing that happened is, one year, the last undefeated team got beat and Nick Buoniconti and Dick Anderson lived next to each other in Coral Gables, and they went out in their driveway and opened a bottle of champagne and popped it and toasted to each other. And they were too cheap to invite the rest of us to their party." -Don Shula

The 1972 Dolphins getting together and poppin' champagne is (mostly) an urban legend. I think Chris Berman was the one who pushed it quite a bit on ESPN.

But this Dolphin fan still thinks being the only undefeated team is kinda cool. We don't have much since 1973 or so anyways.
   44. Howie Menckel Posted: October 18, 2020 at 12:31 PM (#5983699)
Dolphins QB Bob Griese was 8 for 11 for 88 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT in that 14-7 win over the Redsk----

Billy Kilmer went 14 for 28 for 104 yards and 3 INT.

The Redsk---- famously scored their TD on Dolphins kicker Garo Yepremian's mishap.

'Fins RB Larry Csonka had 15 rushes for 112 yards.

the game had 12 punts, and 71 rushes vs 39 passes.
   45. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 18, 2020 at 01:02 PM (#5983701)
But this Dolphin fan still thinks being the only undefeated team is kinda cool. We don't have much since 1973 or so anyways.

It is VERY cool, and I'm not a Dolphin fan or even a football fan anymore. The idea we'd denigrate an undefeated season because they weren't the best "statistical team" or some such nonsense is just silly. They WON ALL THEIR GAMES. that's the best you can do, no one can ever do better.
   46. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 18, 2020 at 01:42 PM (#5983706)
Should the 2007 Patriots pop champagne because of their undefeated season?
   47. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 18, 2020 at 02:05 PM (#5983710)
Should the 2007 Patriots pop champagne because of their undefeated season?

I remember a loss in there somewhere. The Dolphins won every game they could. The Patriots, did not.
   48. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 18, 2020 at 05:43 PM (#5983723)
Whatever Dolphins.


OK...but as Snapper points out. They beat every team that was put before them, simple as that. Who cares if statistically there weren't the best team? I'm sure you played sports at some stage? Would have rather been on the team that scored the most points/runs/goals or the team that beat everyone on the way to the championship?

   49. Howie Menckel Posted: October 18, 2020 at 06:16 PM (#5983725)
I remember a loss in there somewhere.

Can confirm - I was there to witness it in Glendale, AZ.
   50. Nasty Nate Posted: October 18, 2020 at 06:25 PM (#5983726)
. Nasty Nate Posted: October 17, 2020 at 05:52 PM (#5983567)
Trivia: what 3 "speedsters" hit the only triples in the 2004 ALCS?
answer: Ortiz, Matsui, Sierra
   51. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: October 18, 2020 at 06:54 PM (#5983727)
One thing about the Dolphins is that botched field goal really changes the narrative. If Yepremian makes it the 17-0 Dolphins finish the season with a 17-0 win in the Super Bowl. That’s a delightful bit of symmetry for writers and pundits to drone on about for years to come. Instead the defining memory of the only undefeated team in the Super Bowl era is one of the most replayed bloopers in sports history.
   52. Bug Selig Posted: October 18, 2020 at 08:50 PM (#5983739)
The difference is that nobody places an asterisk on the Patriots' on-field accomplishments.
You need to get out more.
   53. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: October 18, 2020 at 11:38 PM (#5983826)
Didn’t Deflategate literally go to court?
   54. Howie Menckel Posted: October 19, 2020 at 12:48 AM (#5983862)
The difference is that nobody places an asterisk on the Patriots' on-field accomplishments.

that really is an odd conclusion, regardless of whether one thinks it belongs there.

also, nobody on the Astros has any standing at all compared to Brady and Belichick, so the attempted parallel fails on multiple levels.

I hope these reality checks are illuminating for our wayward members of the flock.
   55. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: October 19, 2020 at 07:48 AM (#5983866)
nobody from the 2017 Astros (except somebody like Verlander who built a HoF case with another team) is going to get in no matter what they do in the rest of their career.


Altuve, obviously. Correa, Bregman and Springer could also wind up as serious candidates.
   56. Howie Menckel Posted: October 19, 2020 at 08:47 AM (#5983870)
Altuve has six stellar seasons and turns 31 in May.

he's not exactly a lock, trash can banging or not.
   57. SandyRiver Posted: October 19, 2020 at 09:58 AM (#5983880)
Didn’t Deflategate literally go to court?

Multiple times. At one level the penalties were thrown out, based on consideration of the evidence. At the next higher level those penalties were reinstated based only on the commissioner's having the authority to levee the penalties. The deflategate investigation was a farce from the get-go, two different gauges, only a few Colts balls measured, ignorance (or deliberate forgetting) of high school physics - Ideal Gas Law, and more. IMO, the penalty to Brady was revenge for his destroying a cellphone in defiance of the league.
The league stated that random ball pressure measurements would be made the following year, multiple teams in multiple weather conditions, both to see if teams were violating the pressure limits and also to determine allowances for cold/rain/snow. Result: crickets. Either the measurements were never done, or they were but failed to support the investigator's conclusions so the results were never made public.
   58. Rally Posted: October 19, 2020 at 10:36 AM (#5983887)
The 1972 Dolphins getting together and poppin' champagne is (mostly) an urban legend. I think Chris Berman was the one who pushed it quite a bit on ESPN.


It may not be true, but I really want to believe that it's true.
   59. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 19, 2020 at 10:50 AM (#5983890)
It may not be true, but I really want to believe that it's true.
In 2020 America, that's more than enough.

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