BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: Canada reportedly set to lift vaccine requirements for people entering country, a move that would impact unvaccinated professional athletes

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Tuesday, September 20, 2022

Canada reportedly set to lift vaccine requirements for people entering country, a move that would impact unvaccinated professional athletes

Canada likely will drop the vaccine requirement for people who enter the country by the end of September, according to multiple reports Tuesday, a move that impacts unvaccinated professional athletes who travel there for games.

To enter the country, the Canadian government currently requires a person to have received a second COVID-19 vaccine dose—or one dose of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine—at least 14 days before entry. But the government likely will be dropping the requirement, pending a final sign-off from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

In baseball, unvaccinated players have been placed on the restricted list during their teams’ games in Canada. They are not paid and do not accrue major league service time, according to a March agreement between Major League Baseball and the players’ association. Canada’s lifting of its restrictions would now allow unvaccinated major leaguers to play in Toronto in the playoffs should the Blue Jays make the postseason.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 20, 2022 at 10:40 PM | 68 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: blue jays, vaccines

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1. John Reynard Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:49 AM (#6097242)

Toronto's management has to be furiously lobbying to have this be right AFTER the Jays either win the WS or are eliminated, right?

2. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 21, 2022 at 08:49 AM (#6097256)

I would think the tourism industry would freak out if they lost the last decent month of weather in the interests of a single business.

3. John Northey Posted: September 21, 2022 at 09:48 AM (#6097269)

Yuck. As a Canadian I hate this. Sadly too many have decided that getting a disease that hurts your brain is A-OK to have so this was inevitable.

It wouldn't be a big factor in the playoffs most likely, it wasn't in the regular season. The biggest hit was to KC where I think over 10 players were on the COVID IL while they played here. Boston had a few big names, but they are nowhere near the playoffs. All playoff teams I suspect pressured their players to get the shot just in case by now - if not by management then by other players. I mean, c'mon, the shot has been had by literally billions of people of all ages. Every Fox host has had to have it (they weren't allowed in the building otherwise) yet they still rant about it and pretend they didn't get the shot themselves. IMO you have to be a prize idiot to have not had it given it drastically reduces your risk of getting seriously ill or dying from COVID.

4. SoSH U at work Posted: September 21, 2022 at 09:51 AM (#6097271)

It wouldn't be a big factor in the playoffs most likely, it wasn't in the regular season.

Unless the Jays met St. Louie in the World Series. That would be a big deal.

5. KronicFatigue Posted: September 21, 2022 at 09:52 AM (#6097272)

I would think the tourism industry would freak out if they lost the last decent month of weather in the interests of a single business.

I don't think many unvaccinated are into international travel.

6. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: September 21, 2022 at 10:52 AM (#6097284)

Yeah, I was also thinking that Toronto-St. Louis was the nightmare scenario for MLB. Stars like Goldschmidt and Arenado missing games in the World Series would have been a horrible look for MLB. This averts that.

7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 21, 2022 at 11:06 AM (#6097286)

I don't think many unvaccinated are into international travel.

Maybe, though Canada's hardly true international travel for lots of Americans. I can get to Montreal by car faster than I can get to Buffalo, in my state. I also think a lot of people (vaccinated and non) don't want to go someplace where they have to show medical info to get in, and might get stranded if they contract COVID.

8. dejarouehg Posted: September 21, 2022 at 12:45 PM (#6097307)

Yeah, I was also thinking that Toronto-St. Louis was the nightmare scenario for MLB. Stars like Goldschmidt and Arenado missing games in the World Series would have been a horrible look for MLB. This averts that.

As unlikely as this seems, it would have been a fascinating development. Leave it to the Canadians to ruin this storyline.

9. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 21, 2022 at 12:52 PM (#6097311)

I'm assuming the change happens at the same time that the US lifts their similar restrictions as well.

10. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 01:49 PM (#6097320)

Hey, Biden said quite clearly on 60 Minutes the pandemic was over so who is Canada to argue?

11. Lassus Posted: September 21, 2022 at 02:13 PM (#6097322)

I don't think many unvaccinated are into international travel.

At this point are Canadians really considering the U.S a country, though?

12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 21, 2022 at 02:26 PM (#6097325)

At this point are Canadians really considering the U.S a country, though?

A country who's sitting leader regularly appeared in black face doesn't get to look down at anyone.

13. Ron J Posted: September 21, 2022 at 02:44 PM (#6097330)

Regularly? No. Once yeah. He also sang last week. Horrors.

14. Lassus Posted: September 21, 2022 at 02:47 PM (#6097331)

Regularly? No. Once yeah.

I checked, it was a few times he said himself.

However, I'll stand by my sentiment, late teens leadership-wise.

15. The Duke Posted: September 21, 2022 at 02:50 PM (#6097332)

The whole thing is such a sham. The Danes have the right idea. They just banned vaccinations unless you are in a special needs group (really old, immunology compromised, etc). To be clear, they aren't saying you don't need to get one - they have banned people from getting further vaccines.

Good for them - let's hope that logic catches on.

16. jmurph Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:01 PM (#6097334)

The whole thing is such a sham. The Danes have the right idea. They just banned vaccinations unless you are in a special needs group (really old, immunology compromised, etc). To be clear, they aren't saying you don't need to get one - they have banned people from getting further vaccines.

Good for them - let's hope that logic catches on.

Not only is this not true, it's so obviously not true that you really need to take a step back and wonder what the hell you have going on that led you to even entertain the idea that it could be true.

17. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:13 PM (#6097337)

Not only is this not true, it's so obviously not true that you really need to take a step back and wonder what the hell you have going on that led you to even entertain the idea that it could be true.

Actually, it's considerably more true than not:

Who will be offered vaccination against covid-19?

People aged 50 years and over will be offered vaccination.

People aged under 50 who are at a higher risk of becoming severely ill from covid-19 will also be offered vaccination against covid-19.

Staff in the healthcare and elderly care sector as well as in selected parts of the social services sector who have close contact with patients or citizens who are at higher risk of becoming severely ill from covid-19 will also be offered booster vaccination against covid-19.

In addition, we recommend that relatives of persons at particularly higher risk accept the offer of vaccination to protect their relatives who are at particularly higher risk. ...

Why are people aged under 50 not to be re-vaccinated?

The purpose of the vaccination programme is to prevent severe illness, hospitalisation and death. Therefore, people at the highest risk of becoming severely ill will be offered booster vaccination. The purpose of vaccination is not to prevent infection with covid-19, and people aged under 50 are therefore currently not being offered booster vaccination.

People aged under 50 are generally not at particularly higher risk of becoming severely ill from covid-19. In addition, younger people aged under 50 are well protected against becoming severely ill from covid-19, as a very large number of them have already been vaccinated and have previously been infected with covid-19, and there is consequently good immunity among this part of the population.

It is important that the population also remembers the guidance on how to prevent the spread of infection, including staying at home in case of illness, frequent aeration or ventilation, social distancing, good coughing etiquette, hand hygiene and cleaning.

18. Ron J Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:17 PM (#6097339)

#16 Duke's a whack job on this particular subject.

Their policy is actually quite a bit different than what Duke said (no surprise)

Under 18. No boosters. No first shots. Exceptions based on doctor recommendation.

18-50 No boosters. Exceptions based on doctor recommendation.

50 and older and anybody with vulnerable relatives or working in the health sector or working with vulnerable people: Encouraged to be vaccinated and boosted.

19. jmurph Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:20 PM (#6097340)

Actually, it's considerably more true than not:

It's deeply weird that you feel a partisan urge to defend a claim that's not true.

People who haven't been vaccinated can still get vaccinated. So no, not true, nor "more true than not."

20. Ron J Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:20 PM (#6097341)

#17 Not really. There's a big difference between forbidden and boosters not generally offered to those under 50 (and not working in health care or other exceptions)

If the claim had been limited to under 18, yeah.

EDITED

21. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:28 PM (#6097342)

It's deeply weird that you feel a partisan urge to defend a claim that's not true.

People who haven't been vaccinated can still get vaccinated. So no, not true, nor "more true than not."

"Partisan urge?" Sorry, pal, but your comment was extreme, whereas I posted *directly* from the Danish Health Authority website. Is Copenhagen now ultra-MAGA country?

22. Walt Davis Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:32 PM (#6097344)

Proper interpretation: The Danish health system will not be offering FREE BOOSTERS to lower-risk groups as part of its AUTUMN/WINTER 2022 covid plan.

We have achieved very high population immunity in Denmark. This is due both to the high adherence to the vaccination programme and to many people previously having been infected with covid-19. However, we expect that this immunity will gradually decrease over time. In addition, we know that covid-19 is a seasonal disease and that the number of infections are expected to increase during autumn and winter. We expect that a large part of the population will become infected with covid-19 during the autumn, and we therefore want to vaccinate those having the highest risk so that they are protected from severe illness if they become infected.

Furhter:

The Danish Health Authority will offer variant-updated mRNA vaccines in the autumn vaccination programme. These vaccines have been approved by the European Medicines Agency.

The vaccination, which will be offered during autumn/winter 2022-2023, consists of a variant-updated vaccine. The influenza vaccines are updated every year, and the covid-19 vaccines have likewise also been updated to target the Omicron variant more effectively.

The variant-updated vaccines have been adapted to the variant that is dominant in society.

Their health economists have decided that the benefit of a full population seasonal booster program does not outweight the costs and so have targeted it to ... I'll WAG about half the population (over 50s, at-risk under 50s, health workers and anybody else who works with high-risk groups, anybody who spends substantial time with an at-risk person (relative, etc.)

23. Ron J Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:33 PM (#6097345)

#21 And yet you're still wrong. It's not "considerably more true than not" except for those under 18.

24. jmurph Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:34 PM (#6097346)

"Partisan urge?" Sorry, pal, but your comment was extreme, whereas I posted *directly* from the Danish Health Authority website. Is Copenhagen now ultra-MAGA country?

Again this is very weird! It was an obviously false claim, you didn't need to weigh in to try to defend it (by, to be clear, posting a bunch of words confirming that Duke's post was wrong). No one read this and said, "huh, Duke is wrong, so therefore JE must also be wrong." (Well, you had that reaction, I guess, but no one else did.)

25. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:39 PM (#6097349)

#21 And yet you're still wrong. It's not "considerably more true than not" except for those under 18.

Which part of "Why are people aged under 50 not to be re-vaccinated?" do we still not understand?

26. greenback does not like sand

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:41 PM (#6097350)

The part with "re-".

27. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:42 PM (#6097351)

Again this is very weird! It was an obviously false claim, you didn't need to weigh in to try to defend it (by, to be clear, posting a bunch of words confirming that Duke's post was wrong). No one read this and said, "huh, Duke is wrong, so therefore JE must also be wrong." (Well, you had that reaction, I guess, but no one else did.)

You were the one who matched Duke's absolutism with absolutism of your own. What I said was that he was more right than not.

The Danes currently have a vaccination policy in place that isn't remotely the same as America's -- so it's no wonder that you now go to herculean lengths to downplay its significance.

28. jmurph Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:46 PM (#6097352)

Which part of "Why are people aged under 50 not to be re-vaccinated?" do we still not understand?

Well I think to be clear everyone else understands the words except for, apparently, you and the duke.

People can still get Covid vaccinations in Denmark, and in fact are encouraged to do so! Contrast that with duke's (false) claim, that you are continuing to defend for bizarre reasons known only to you:

They just banned vaccinations unless you are in a special needs group (really old, immunology compromised, etc).

That is, obviously, wrong. Why are you spending your time this way?

29. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:46 PM (#6097353)

The part with "re-".

It's 2022. Of course it's going to say "re-."

Meanwhile, the United States, nearly alone in the West, is pimping vaccines for all age groups, including children over six months.

30. jmurph Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:47 PM (#6097354)

What I said was that he was more right than not.

He was, crucially, entirely wrong.

herculean lengths

Herculean = like 28 seconds of reading, this does not reflect well on you.

31. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:49 PM (#6097355)

People can still get Covid vaccinations in Denmark,

At the same time, the age groups in question are advised not to get re-vaccinated. Hence, more right than not.

32. Ron J Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:50 PM (#6097356)

The Danes start from a different place too. As Walt notes they specifically cite their high vaccination rates in explaining why they won't be offering free boosters to those who a) are under 50, b) don't work in health care c) don't have vulnerable people in their life or d) are not themselves vulnerable.

This is very different than what Duke was claiming. Again, outside of those under 18.

33. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:51 PM (#6097357)

He was, crucially, entirely wrong.

Get a grip, man. You're deflecting in the hope that no one will see, let alone openly admit the ongoing folly of US vaccine policy, which most recently resulted in the mass firing of over 800 teachers in the City of New York, never mind the reported teacher shortage.

34. jmurph Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:55 PM (#6097359)

Get a grip, man. You're deflecting in the hope that no one will see, let alone openly admit the ongoing folly of US vaccine policy, which most recently resulted in the mass firing of over 800 teachers in the City of New York, never mind the reported teacher shortage.

You seem to be mistakenly thinking that I have shared some thoughts about current American covid vaccine policy rather than having merely weighed in on a ridiculously wrong post about Danish vaccine policy.

At the same time, the age groups in question are advised not to get re-vaccinated. Hence, more right than not.

Acknowledging that, for you, reading even a single sentence takes "herculean effort," I would encourage you to reread the original claim:

They just banned vaccinations unless you are in a special needs group (really old, immunology compromised, etc).

and then compare and contrast it with all of the various other things you've typed since then, and really consider whether that original claim was right or wrong. And then further, I'd again ask you why you choose to spend your time this way.

35. Zonk Knew This Would Happen Posted: September 21, 2022 at 03:56 PM (#6097360)

Of course -

We have achieved very high population immunity in Denmark. This is due both to the high adherence to the vaccination programme and to many people previously having been infected with covid-19. However, we expect that this immunity will gradually decrease over time. In addition, we know that covid-19 is a seasonal disease and that the number of infections are expected to increase during autumn and winter. We expect that a large part of the population will become infected with covid-19 during the autumn, and we therefore want to vaccinate those having the highest risk so that they are protected from severe illness if they become infected.

Denmark's full vaccination rate is one of the highest in the EU and the world (84% full course - trailing only Spain and Portugal in the EU).

However, some people lack the intellectual capacity to consider that one factor (very high level of initial course of vaccination) might share cause/effect with another factor.

36. Brian C Posted: September 21, 2022 at 04:01 PM (#6097362)

Anyone who uses the phrase "more true than not" is lying, essentially by definition. It is a term of art for which the sole practical usage is "not true but watch me spin to the point of distraction". And so we get "vaccines are banned" meaning "they're somewhat selective of who gets boosters based on the success of their earlier vax programs."

There's no use in engaging JE's silliness here, guys - he's not even trying to hide that he's just throwing gorilla dust.

37. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 04:04 PM (#6097363)

We have achieved very high population immunity in Denmark.

And yet mandates remained even in American jurisdictions where adult vaccination rates had reached or exceeded 80 percent.

38. greenback does not like sand

Posted: September 21, 2022 at 04:08 PM (#6097364)

Yes, communications for public health are complicated, and it's generally a good idea to simplify the message. I'm sure you understand WWG1WGA.

39. The Duke Posted: September 21, 2022 at 04:21 PM (#6097367)

It's banned. Of course the comms are mushy because they dont want to say "banned" - it's a govt agency after all.

"When contacted by Reuters, the Danish Health Authority pointed to further guidance on the autumn/winter seasonal plan for vaccination roll-outs and highlighted one quote that said: “Children and adolescents only very rarely have a serious course of illness due to COVID-19 with the Omicron variant, which is why the offer of primary vaccination for children between five and 17 years will not be a general offer, but can be given after a specific medical assessment”

In other words you can't get a vaccine unless your dr orders you one and what's really going on there is that the govt is telling doctors not to order one.

FYI I lived in Denmark and have friends there and they said it's clear, the govt doesn't want people getting the vaccine anymore unless they are at high risk. It's clearly better now for people to get it and develop immunities like every other virus we've ever had

The US has incredibly high rates of vaccination. 65-70% with most of the people who haven't had it being young. We look just like Denmark: high rates of vax and high rates of covid. There's nothing materially different about them than us (or any other developed country )

Finally, the president himself just said the pandemic is OVER. I'd like to think our heath orgs would take the hint and ban the vaccine in the same way.

40. pikepredator Posted: September 21, 2022 at 04:23 PM (#6097371)

And yet mandates remained even in American jurisdictions where adult vaccination rates had reached or exceeded 80 percent.

Which mandates are these? I'm in Vermont (83%) and I'm not aware of any. Or (by using "remained") are you bringing up the past to conflate past and present and cause confusion?

The Danes currently have a vaccination policy in place that isn't remotely the same as America's

That much is true! If we were at 84% and didn't have a significant portion of the population insisting vaccines are worthless, we'd have a
different policy. The Danes understand vaccines *work*, and have had far less resistance than the US in that regard.

At 47, I'm shocked to learn that I'm about to become "really old". I'm guessing that duke guy is part of Gen-Z given his clear disdain for the over-50 crowd. Someday he'll (hopefully) realize that one can still be quite spry at 50 - and beyond!

41. Lassus Posted: September 21, 2022 at 04:37 PM (#6097376)

Proper interpretation: The Danish health system will not be offering FREE BOOSTERS to lower-risk groups as part of its AUTUMN/WINTER 2022 covid plan.

Does this mean that any adult in any age group can get a booster as long as they pay for it, or am I misunderstanding?

42. The Duke Posted: September 21, 2022 at 04:48 PM (#6097380)

I'm thrice vaccinated and was vaccinated on the first day a shot became available. I'm 60. I've been getting my flu shot since I was 40. I travelled to Africa a lot for my job and have had so many vaccinations and re-vaccinations I can't remember how many yellow cards I have had. I'm very pro-vaccine for people who need one.

Americans aren't stupid - you don't need the govt to lie about this stuff and create a two-tier world of vaxxers and anti-vaxxers. The overwhelming data says most people under 65 are not at risk of death and virtually no one under 50 (statistically ) will die. From Day 1, the media and govt agencies ignored this (except De Santis). The govt uses anecdotal stories of young people dying to spook everyone.

The faster we move covid into the flu category the better.

43. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 21, 2022 at 09:56 PM (#6097434)

I'm shocked that this thread is trolls trolling super hard.

44. base ball chick Posted: September 21, 2022 at 10:05 PM (#6097437)

LOTS of previously healthy people under 50 with long covid. of course, they are not and prolly were not in the hospital and they just disabled now for who cares how long so who cares. best to get boosted

nobody gets long flu

45. Baldrick Posted: September 21, 2022 at 11:10 PM (#6097446)

It's too much to ask for the people who run the site to do anything I guess, but maybe the people who USE the site could just...stop posting COVID threads. Or at least when there's some actual news (like here) you could just stop engaging with the weirdos.

46. base ball chick Posted: September 21, 2022 at 11:51 PM (#6097451)

sigh

yeah. you right. i mean about stop engsging. i don't post the covid stuff

47. SoSH U at work Posted: September 22, 2022 at 12:03 AM (#6097452)

It's too much to ask for the people who run the site to do anything I guess,

I think it's too much to ask to think there's anyone running the site.

48. John Reynard Posted: September 22, 2022 at 05:03 AM (#6097457)

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku

Link to raw data for anyone who wants to see that we could fill almost 2 of the modern baseball stadiums with COVID dead 0-49 year olds. If that counts as "almost nobody" then, I mean, sure, I guess lots of things we're supposed to be excited about cause people die are irrelevant too.

For people who like baseball (and that normally means having a good idea on statistical interpretation), I'm shocked that some argue 65-70% vax rate is comparable to 84% too. But, I mean, I guess Arozarena and Trout are comparable, right?

49. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: September 22, 2022 at 07:37 AM (#6097463)

...aaaaaand it's another Virus/Politics Thread! Tip your waitresses!

50. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: September 22, 2022 at 07:43 AM (#6097464)

The US has incredibly high rates of vaccination. 65-70% with most of the people who haven't had it being young.

What's the % of people who have received 1 booster? 2? 3?

51. The Duke Posted: September 22, 2022 at 09:28 AM (#6097470)

52. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 22, 2022 at 11:10 AM (#6097483)

For a bunch of people who live and die by statistics allowing yourselves to believe society should be turned on it's head because "two baseball stadiums of people under 65 died in the last three years" is incredible. In a country of 300 million people this is a nothing.

Just to be clear, at this point we're not talking about turning society on its head, we're talking about whether to provide / encourage / require vaccination. (And one of the reasons the fatality numbers are not much higher is precisely *because* 65-70% of the population got vaccinated.)

I'm always interested at what is considered a "nothing" and what is worth major inconvenience etc. We still make people take their shoes off before getting on planes and don't let them pack normal toiletries in their carry-ons because of a few failed terrorism attempts. We basically upended the entire world order because of a terrorist attack that killed a small fraction of those killed by COVID. We have caused widespread suffering in our war on drugs even though drug overdoses kill a fraction of the people that COVID does. The same people who supported all of those things thought requiring a shot or a mask was a bridge too far.

53. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 22, 2022 at 11:18 AM (#6097485)

Also, Denmark didn't ban COVID vaccines.

54. SoSH U at work Posted: September 22, 2022 at 11:20 AM (#6097486)

I'm always interested at what is considered a "nothing" and what is worth major inconvenience etc. We still make people take their shoes off before getting on planes and don't let them pack normal toiletries in their carry-ons because of a few failed terrorism attempts.

I've always considered that a nothing.

55. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE

Posted: September 22, 2022 at 11:26 AM (#6097487)

The same people who supported all of those things thought requiring a shot or a mask was a bridge too far.

The sane ones who thought *requiring* a shot or mask was a bridge too far said so because the evidence was faulty -- and for the most part were proven right, as both were a net negative. Encouraging shots and masks in late 2020 onward was one thing, mandating them in venues like schools quite another.

That even this month more than 800 teachers and aides in the City of New York got terminated -- with apparent approval from one of the most powerful unions in the country -- vividly demonstrates how science takes a back seat to politics and backward thinking.

56. Lassus Posted: September 22, 2022 at 11:38 AM (#6097489)

Also, Denmark didn't ban COVID vaccines.

How or why this bizarro, flatly false assertion (to the contrary) was necessary is more or less the crux of it.

57. RJ in TO Posted: September 22, 2022 at 01:27 PM (#6097516)

For a bunch of people who live and die by statistics allowing yourselves to believe society should be turned on it's head because "two baseball stadiums of people under 65 died in the last three years" is incredible. In a country of 300 million people this is a nothing.

As best I can tell, it's officially roughly five stadiums worth of people, according to the CDC, and this likely underestimates the number of under 65 people who have died, and completely ignores the significant number of people under 65 who have been left with significant long term health impacts from COVID.

58. John Reynard Posted: September 22, 2022 at 01:33 PM (#6097517)

society should be turned on it's head

If people think modest distancing, masking, and adding a vaccination to our schedule because of a fresh entrant into the human infectious ecosystem is "turned on its head", there is nothing you can do to help them I guess. But, society is allowed to use punitive measures against these folks the same way they do people who allow their lawns to grow to 2-3 feet high in dense suburbs and cause pest and other problems for their neighbors. Externalities are a thing. If all the risk created by a refusal to vaccinate was carried by the refuser, nobody would give a crap if people vaxxed or not.

People need to grow up if they think rather minor measures are society-changing.

Abolishing in-person K-12 schooling forever? That would be society-changing.

59. Lassus Posted: September 22, 2022 at 02:09 PM (#6097523)

Thank god no one under 65 ever interacts with anyone over 65.

60. ReggieThomasLives Posted: September 22, 2022 at 02:10 PM (#6097524)

I came here expecting some sort of triumphant posts defending unvaccinated ball players that ends of course with something like “suck it snowflakes!”, but never thought I’d run into an angry discussion of Danish vaxxing rules. I’m so confused.

61. jmurph Posted: September 23, 2022 at 01:30 PM (#6097645)

I’m so confused.

It's pretty straight forward: one person is sort of a standard 2020s partisan liar, the other is a cynical, dishonest #### who makes this place worse with every post he makes. The rest of us are (admittedly foolishly) yelling at those two.

62. Hombre Brotani

Posted: September 24, 2022 at 06:32 PM (#6097824)

The rest of us are (admittedly foolishly) yelling at those two.

Yeah, you guys are the dumb ones. Those other two can't help themselves. It's a sickness or something. The rest of you guys are just being dumb.

63. The Duke Posted: September 26, 2022 at 10:33 AM (#6097939)

Yes, I'm the troll. Both political parties say the pandemic is over (my position), doctors here and overseas (see Denmark, see Canada lifting vaccine requirements, see dr offits editorial in WSJ) are saying DON'T get the updated vaccine if you are healthy. meanwhile you guys continue to live in 2020 presumably masked and wrapped in cellophane.

I'm not even sure what most of you believe as of today: that covid is still a dire threat to humanity largely the same as two years ago. How could you believe that? Is it just that like everything else today that if people don't believe what you believe need to be demonized?

64. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 26, 2022 at 10:46 AM (#6097941)

I received the booster and flu shot on Friday and wear a mask on my commuter bus. My wife and I take our year-and-a-half-old to his weekly gym class and regularly to stores (and to his second dose of the vaccine later this week). I also recognize you for, in the most charitable read, being a real dumbass. Why are you lying about and demonizing people like me?

65. Lassus Posted: September 26, 2022 at 11:11 AM (#6097944)

I'm not even sure what most of you believe as of today:

I don't believe you're a troll, but I do believe you lied about vaccines being banned for whatever reason.

I also believe that I'm more careful around people than prior, because my FiL is 85 and a diabetic and incredibly high-risk to become seriously ill and die. My mother's husband is 81 with congestive heart failure issues. I go out to eat, I went to the NY State fair three weeks ago, I laughed with my wife about finding a mask in a pocket from "another time". My wife owns and teaches at her private, unmasked ballet school. I'm still careful about being too close to people for too long in lines, etc., and will noticeably move away. I would and will certainly wear an N95 on upcoming flights, and I will get boosters as time goes on. This care, and attention to medicines is too much trouble and cellophane for you, I do understand. Maybe you don't ever hang out with people in the higher-death brackets you might pass illness to, or don't care if you do.

66. Nasty Nate Posted: September 26, 2022 at 11:33 AM (#6097946)

I don't believe you're a troll, but I do believe you lied about vaccines being banned for whatever reason.

He probably just pulled that from some dumbass Facebook post or something rather than intentionally lied.

67. Greg Pope Posted: September 26, 2022 at 12:38 PM (#6097954)

I also believe that I'm more careful around people than prior, because my FiL is 85 and a diabetic and incredibly high-risk to become seriously ill and die.

I mostly live my life like I did before the pandemic, with a few exceptions. I wear an N95 mask when I fly or when on the subway. I haven't attended church since before the pandemic, except for funerals, at which I wear an N95 mask. I do have older relatives but mostly I don't want to catch COVID. I'm somewhat concerned about any possible long term effects. I don't think we know everything about this virus.

Also, I got my booster. I don't understand anyone saying not to get it. I get a flu shot every year. And while plenty of people don't, there's no government recommendation NOT to get it. In fact, they specifically recommend it. COVID is demonstrably worse than the flu, so getting a flu shot and a COVID shot will be my normal.

68. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: September 26, 2022 at 02:27 PM (#6097963)

Me too. I have 5 shots in me, and I got the flu shot with my 3rd booster. Or 4th, if you count the second shot as a booster.

I don't mask unless I don't feel well, as I'm not stuck inside for long periods of time with people. If I were, I'd mask. Running through the supermarket in 30 minutes doesn't warrant wearing a mask.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2022

Canada reportedly set to lift vaccine requirements for people entering country, a move that would impact unvaccinated professional athletes

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